There are some great books out there by Dr. Patrick Carnes. I'm half way through Mending a Shattered Heart by Stefanie Carnes and have also read False Intimacy by Shaumberg and Healing the Wounds of Sexual Addition by Laaser, not to mention a few more.
Are you in IC with someone who knows how to handle sexual addiction?
Set your boundaries whether they are he goes to counseling once a week or he moves out, or he gives you passwords and access to everything or whatever. And stick to them. Don't give him empty threats. If you say you are kicking him out if he contines to do X and you don't then why should he stop doing X? Remember if he's not 100% transparent and honest then he's not ready to reconcile let alone deal with SA.
Have you consulted a lawyer?
Cer, I just went back and read your profile. Heartbreaking! Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think it's time you take control of things and do what's best for YOU.
Who cares what the church members, neighbors, other parents think. None of this is your fault, but you are IMHO helping enable him by not holding him accountable for his actions. It's time he gets a wake up call. If he doesn't deal with it and admit he has a problem, he's never going to change and you are just watching a bad rerun every d-day.
Please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers. You don't deserve this continued betrayal and I think you need to do something about it. NOW!
[This message edited by Mourning123 at 2:02 PM, October 22nd (Wednesday)]
You need to just focus on you and your kids. The 180 is for you to get on with your life. This man is emotionally abusing you and manipulating you. Believe me I know what manipulation looks like cause I'm the queen of being manipulated.
I do have a question for all you wise ladies.
WH has had his second session with his CSAT and now the CSAT wants to see me. Is that normal? What could he possibly want to see me about?
I'll let you know when we go what happened...
I'm actually looking forward to meeting him. He's doing wonders with my H!
It's been long enough it seems. And it seems that you realize that. He may really have to hit rock bottom to come to grips with all the trouble he has caused you. He will not get help unless he feels like he has to to save his own life, and unfortunately for you, that means you have to set some rules and hard consequences. (And follow through!- Which it also seems like you realize now)
If not, he is managing and controlling your life and making it convenient for him. It's time to look after you and your children. If the 180 can cause him to snap back and really get help, great. If it doesn't, but you get your life and your spirit back... great, too.
You are in a perpetual no-win situation without the follow through of the consequences you set. We have all been manipulated here and some more than others (I'm one of them with multiple DDays). I have finally realized (with the help of everyone here) that this will never end if your boundaries aren't respected.
You are not setting boundaries that are unreasonable. You aren't setting boundaries to control him. You are setting boundaries to save yourself. If he cannot respect that, he has to go (or you do) until he can or will.
Be strong. Stick to the 180 and decide what you are going to do for YOURSELF. I think it's time for self preservation mode, not marriage preservation mode. You've already tried that a lot. (You may still be surprised that he may collapse and really try to get treatment... Don't stop until you are satisfied with the ACTIONS, not the words... Our H's are excellent liars and charmers when they want to be.)
Do you have somewhere you could stay? Do you have a financial plan that will allow you to leave and find a new place to live? (Only asking b/c unless he is willing to leave, it's hard to enforce that consequence if you don't want to move out) Do you still have contact with the same lawyer you used before? If so, talk to them about your options. The thing is, either SA or not, you've been manipulated for a very long time. I think you need to jump into action and take back control of your life. Your children will understand eventually, even if they don't understand now.
I'm not even sure if this will help you, but it's my best advice, just reading your profile and in relation to your question.
Good luck- It's time to get selfish for YOU!
[This message edited by innerstrength at 3:24 PM, October 22nd (Wednesday)]
WH's IC wanted to see both of us to get a sense of where I was in all this sh*t the first couple of weeks out from d-day #1. (I was in hell BTW)
I've since been seeing my IC who works closely with WH's IC and WH & I met with both of them last week for a "check up/check in, see how we are relating, etc"... The two ICs we see work closely and consult each other on how to proceed with each of us. They both also lead our group therapy and I have to say that I've never been a proponent of counseling, but I wouldn't be fighting for the marriage if not for them and my WH's repentance.
I would venture to guess that your WH's CSAT wants to see you to get a sense of where you are, what you think and how to proceed with your WH. Take it as your opportunity to voice your concerns, acknowledge WH's progress, etc.
Keep us posted.
Cling to each other.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I'm all over the forums so you can catch my story mainly from my profile. It's pretty much the same: started with internet porn and progressed to chat rooms and eventually phone calls and finally trying to meet people from singles ads and craigslist.
He's away on business this week so I can think a little more clearly while he's not around. Before he left I said I think you need to get some help and he agreed with me (about needing to get help).
He says he's deeply sorry, wants to make it right again, doesn't know what came over him (blah blah blah). One thing he did say that could explain things is he had weight loss surgery and the psychiatrist warned him about transferral addictions (sex/porn for food ?). Anyone know about or experienced this? I think it could be worth looking into or at least contacting the guy that mentioned about this.
Right now I'm wavering-standing upright one minute and mushy liquified goo the next. I don't know what steps to take or where to go from here. I don't know what I want from him (except for the whole thing to go away like it never happened). I'm not sure I'm getting all of the truth (trickle truths-doesn't want to hurt me more yada yada). Won't say, except flat out deny anything physical happened-I need to know if I should be tested for STD's. I'm going to be tested anyway regardless.
I've got no support anywhere (other than SI); in fact, we moved to a whole new country just last month. Friends and family are back in the States. I don't want them involved anyway it would only stir the conflict up even more. Even a friend online has been pulling me in different directions (it's becoming a little toxic because of her own situation and experience with divorce). I know she means well and she doesn't want to see me hurt but everyone has to do what they feel is right for them.
Just my little way of saying Hi and maybe get some advice from those of you who are in the same boat as me (unfortunately for all of us).
Status: Struggling Everday to
what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France
So sorry you find yourself in this horrible situation. Take him up on his agreement that he needs help and go find a counselor, preferably a CSAT or someone who deals with sexual addiction.
You will find that there are some really wise women in this group who will guide you along this journey if you choose to stay with WH or if you choose to leave.
Please go get tested, and make WH get tested just for peace of mind. Trickle truth is a b*tch and because of that I demanded that both myself and WH get tested for everything. Have you read the Healing Library in the left corner. Also, check this thread as there are numerous books suggested and recommended for spouses.
You are in my thoughts and prayers.
We are all here for you, so post as often as you need.
I think innerstrength and a few others have made some good points regarding something that's really hard for many of us, especially when we first find out about the SA -- and that is the notion of taking care of ourselves and setting boundaries.
Excellent point. I thought I was taking care of myself for some time. When I took a long hard look at me, I realized I was not. I was smoking off and on, my weight was creeping up again and I was finding myself getting upset by reading an internet board of which I have been a member for years.
So I decided enough. I canned the cigarettes, which I don't really miss at all. My weight is stabilizing. I bought myself a good pair of walking shoes and have started a program. Last night, after sharing some upsetting banter with a dear friend over politics (I used to love discussing American politics even though I am Canadian) I asked to be removed from that board.
After the latter, I woke up this morning feeling so calm and resolute. It was the right thing to do, although I will miss many folks on that board. But it was a roadblock in my recovery and I needed to cut it out of my life.
One thing he did say that could explain things is he had weight loss surgery and the psychiatrist warned him about transferral addictions (sex/porn for food ?). Anyone know about or experienced this?
I haven't, but my son swears this is true for him. He is 7 months clean from a narcotic addiction. However he said the addiction started to transfer to other things.
He was on a drug for anxiety and insomnia that notoriously increases appetite. He said he became addicted to the increased appetite and looked forward to taking the medication and the ensuing gluttony that followed. He went off the medication and started on another one.
He has also fought sex addiction, and found himself going to porn during his recovery from the narcotic addiction. He decided to attend an SAA meeting to help deal with that.
My son is an amazing kid. His recovery has given him incredible insight and I treasure the nuggets he shares with me.
Your feelings are perfectly normal, given the circumstances. Simply hold on for the ride as best you can, until your feelings stabilize somewhat.
I've also heard about transferring addictions and it's something that SAs need to be aware of when they stop the acting out. My mother was an alcoholic and when she got sober, she drank coffee like crazy. A compulsive person tends to do everything to the extreme.
Please post here as much as you need. Well-meaning friends (or not well-meaning friends) can simply muddy the waters when we're trying to see clear of the situation. You'll find many of this site with varying perspectives. Take what makes sense for you and leave the rest.
Your son sounds like he's really come to grips with his addiction. After my mom got sober, I really enjoyed talking with her. And I still find myself drawn to people who've overcome adversity. They tend to talk and feel more deeply.
I had a phone call this morning from my brother-in-law who's struggling with his wife's "shopping" addiction. They both make a fairly good living, but she's spending them into serious debt -- and has been for years. He knows NOTHING of my husband's (his brother's) SA but I'm a writer who writes on consumer issues so he thought I might know resources for him/his wife. I haven't a clue...and wondered if any of you know much about shopping addiction and whether there are 12-step groups or something.
A google search didn't turn up very much. They live in the Toronto area...
If you can help, let me know.
Today I'm actually feeling pretty good. Must be that the antidepressants are starting to kick in. It's been a week today (at 4:35 pm) that I found out more about my H.
Since last Friday I've been trying to find a local SA support group for families of SA's. I finally found a local COSA meeting which is tonight at 7. I've left a message for someone to call and let me know where it is. I'm scared to go shoot I don't even know if I will go this meeting but I know I need to.
Welcome to this thread. You will find a great support system here.
I don't know about COSA, so others may chime in on that, but I do recommend IC.
You are so close from d-day that you are overwhelmed with all the crazy emotions. Just remember that they are normal and you are justified in your pain to cry or scream whenever you feel.
Take care of YOU right now. Eat, sleep, breathe and take it hour by hour and then day by day. You WILL SURVIVE, with or without him.
Sorry I've dropped off the face of the earth for a bit. Work has been very busy.
I am glad you found us. We are hear to listen, share and suport each other.
You said in your Profile,
My story isn't as bad as many of yours.
I am not certain whether you are trying to convince us or yourself. It appears that your first husband cheated on you, you entered into another relationship almost immediately without healing, and your current husband has been unfaithful to you since day one.
IT IS A BIG DEAL AND IT IS NOT OKAY! You deserve respect, love and honesty. Please do not put yourself down and downplay the betrayal that has be inflicted on you.
So repeat after me,
* I LOVE MYSELF. I CAN THINK FOR MYSELF. THERE IS NO PROBLEM SO GREAT THAT I CANNOT SOLVE.
* I MUST LOOK AFTER MYSELF.
* I DESERVE TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP BASED ON LOVE, RESPECT, HONESTY AND TRUST.
* MY HUSBAND HAS BETRAYED ME, AND IT IS NOT RIGHT, AND IT IS NOT OKAY.
* I FEEL HURT, ANGRY AND ALONE, AND I HAVE THE RIGHT TO FEEL LIKE THIS.
* I DO NOT HAVE TO TOLERATE INFIDELITY AND DISHONESTY.
* I CANNOT CONTROL OTHER PEOPLE'S ACTION, BUT I CAN CONTROL HOW I ACT AND REACT.
First thing first though, please check for STDs and advise your doctor that your husband has been unfaithful (otherwise, your doctor may give you a reduced number of tests). Then, either do not have sexual contact with your husband or use protection until and unless this gets resolved. Please know that no one has a right to jeopardize your health.
You will benefit greatly from individual counselling. You must believe you deserve better, recognize the reasons for your co-dependence, experience the anger and hurt as part of the griefing process, and learn to set boundaries.
In fact, before you expend further energy into your husband and your marriage, you should resolve your own issues first. There will not be a healthy relationship until and unless you believe you deserve love and respect, and you are able to set boundaries.
I know it's easier said than done - all of us here are struggling through the same process as well. My point is: If you decide to reconcile with your husband, you would need to learn these lessons so that you can re-build a healthy relationship with him with proper boundaries. If you decide to separate, you would also need to learn these lessons so you will not enter into yet another unhealthy relationship.
Please post often. You are in my thoughts. I am sincerely sorry if this Post is too forceful - I am really aching for you, more so because I see a person hurting and still blaming herself. If I can only give you a hug...
[This message edited by birdwatch at 4:40 PM, October 23rd (Thursday)]
My story starts off Last Tuesday, 10-14-08. I homeschool our two children, and during one of our breaks with schoolwork, I decided to throw in a quick load of laundry. As I emptied my Husbands work pants pockets, I found a little yellow post-it note. He always has part numbers, or phone numbers that he writes down for work, so I wasn't really concerned about another yellow post-it. I finished stuffing the washer, and gathered up all of the misc. items out of the pockets, a drill bit, a linty piece of gum in a wrapper, and a whopping 64 cents! Not my best payday, but I shoved it into my own pocket anyway. Then came the post it, I peeled it open, then my heart sank. Ladies names, descriptions (blond, skinny, big tits, NEW) and phone numbers- then the kicker- prices. $110- $180 h/o. HuH??? NO WAY- I was stunned. Total disbelief. I was trying to make sense of the whole thing, and rushed to the computer, Googled one of the phone numbers. Sent me directly to a Craigslist Erotic posting- an ad that basically advertised for prostitution. Not basically, totally advertised for prostitution. Total description of what she would do, and how much it would cost. Next number- more of the same. 11 numbers in all- some were asian, blond, italian, big and small breasts, no rhyme or reason. Total torture.
I sent the kids outside to go feed the animals, and knew that they would take the opportunity to take a longer break from schoolwork. I then called my Husband. He answered his cell, and asked how I was doing? Well, in my best straight voice, I told him I wasn't doing well at all, and that I just found a little post-it with Hookers names on it, and that we needed to talk when he got home. I hung up, not even waiting for his reaction. I buried my head in the clean laundry basket and screamed!!! I almost hyperventilated but gasping for air at the same time.
Our marriage was always something that I could count on. I was always so secure. I told him every day how much I appreciated him working so then I could stay home with the kids. I told him that he was wonderful, sexy, and a great person. We had a great (or so I thought) sex life. 5+ times per week, and I am very willing to fulfill fantasies. I gave myself to him, fully- without any doubt. Any time of day, anywhere. I thought that everything was GREAT! What a fool I have been. I knew about the magazines, and I worked through my jealousy of not being perfect like those airbrushed, silicone shaped bodies. I even let him go to strip clubs for bachelor parties, and farewell parties, because I TRUSTED him. I even told my friends that I never had anything to worry about, because I am so secure in our marriage. One of my neighbors said that I was so lucky to have so much faith in our relationship. Turns out that I am just a fool. I knew that he liked to look at internet porn, he always erased the History when he did. Turns out, pictures aren't the only thing that he was after. He was my high school sweetheart, I went to the Prom with him. The first week we started going out, we promised never to play head games- because we were witnessing our friends relationships going through hell because of them. So much for promises. My life is in turmoil. I want everything to be how it used to be. The thing is, he doesn't want to end our Marriage, he wants to work it all out. I am torn. He broke my heart, and deceived me in the worst way possible. Do I tear my children's lives upside down? They don't deserve any of this. Hell- I don't deserve any of this.
He took the following day off- so we could talk. I set the kids up on projects, and had them clean the garage. (cruel mom, I know) We took walks, talked, held hands, hugged, cried- You name it- the ultimate emotional roller coaster ride. I would love to move forward, but it hurts so bad. I can wrap my head around it all, but my heart is still so empty. I feel numb. It's been a week, but in a way- I think that my subconscious has known for a long time. Insomnia, and when I did sleep, I would have some crazy hellish nightmares.
I don't want to talk to any of my girlfriends about this, because, just in case we do end up working this out, I don't want them to know everything, and reminding me about it all later.
Well, he admitted to seeing prostitutes, He said that He did it about a half dozen times, over the course of the few months. He mainly, just came on their breasts, and used them to "get off" When I asked if he had sex with any of them, he replied that he did "once" He said he always used a condom, even when he got a blowjob.
Well, after checking our financial records, I found out that It he has been spending between $500- $800 per month (getting cash out of the atm) That is on top of gas, and lunch, ect. What a fool- to trust him, I knew that he loved to shop, and he did come home with new nailguns, saws, screw guns, but always paid with them on his credit card. (we are building our so called "dreamhouse") I actually just purged our filing cabinet of old paperwork, including bank statements that were over 18 months old. Well, the statements that I did have- proved to be quite telling.
When I confronted him about the timeline, he just started crying, telling me that he didn't want to hurt me more than he already had. So, as far as I can "prove" This has been going on for at least a year and a half.
We have been married for almost 15 years. (our anniversary is 10-31), together for 18. I don't want to live a lie, even if it is for the children's sake. This is the worst betrayal possible. And it's crazy because I always thought that if he crossed that line, there wouldn't be any indecision. Our marriage would be over. It's funny how everything is cut and dry, until it happens to you.
Well, here's the thing- I don't think that it is possible to feel anymore pain than realizing your whole adult life had been based on a lie. Sad for me- but devastating for the kids.
So- He paid $6,500 for prostitution, and I was always skimping by- clipping coupons, and finding the great deals- while playing the Fool.
I have an appointment tomorrow for my STD tests. (thanks for posting the suggestions)
Self Pity, Anger, thoughts of "what if I was a better wife" This truly sucks.
high school sweethearts, together for 18 years, married for 15.
trying to reconcile
I'm sorry you find yourselves here. But we're all here to offer up support and prop each other up when we need it. You might even find that putting your story down helps you as well. It can seem so overwhelming and putting your thoughts down might help you sift through all the conflicting emotions.
I'm almost two years out from finding out about what I thought was a single affair. Six months later I found out about the sexual addiction, which had started before I met my husband and continued through dating, engagement and 11 years of marriage and three children. I had NOT ONE CLUE. I would have told you my husband was the most principled person I'd ever met and that he would NEVER cheat on me. Ummm...yes he would and he did, repeatedly over years and years.
However, he has been "clean" for almost two years and remains determined not to go down that path again. His shame, his guilt, his remorse are strong deterrents.
I went on ADs, very, very grudgingly, in June after my bad days began to far outnumber my good days. Now I'm back to feeling like I did before the ADs -- still struggle some days, feel fine others. But I'm still standing and actually doing quite well. Most people -- who haven't a clue about any of this -- are none the wiser and still wouldn't guess that there was anything wrong. My point is that you will survive this. You will get to a point where it simply becomes part of your history -- a painful part, yes, but the pain becomes more dull with time.
Your first goal is to take care of yourselves as well as possible. Try to get sleep, eat healthily, walk off anger... And please know that there are many of us who've been where you are and can offer up our hard-won wisdom and compassion.
I had to wait 6 days to have the D&E, they couldn't get me in sooner and my body never did figure it out on it's own. Those 6 days were pure hell, no one should have to wait that long knowing that their baby is already dead. I think I've cried more in the last 6 days than I ever did regarding my rSA's infidelities.
I had the surgery yesterday. I'm doing better today. I haven't had any pain and the bleeding has tapered off dramatically. Emotionally, I think I'm a little numb right now.
The fetus was sent for genetic testing but we won't know anything at all for 3-4 weeks and possibly will never know anything at all. He said something about "only if they can get the chromosomes to grow." I know nothing about genetic testing so I really don't know exactly what it is that they do.
We have decided that on April 23 (due date) we will plant a lilac bush (my favorite flower) in memory of the baby. I've also put together a small memory box with the pregnancy tests and our 3 ultrasound pictures in it and have put it away to save.
When I first came on here and talked about my ex SA/HPD, you really took the time to help me in my darkest hour. I am forever grateful to you and if you ever need an ear to bend, I am your guy
I also want to say thank you to everyone for the welcome. I did end up going to the COSA meeting last night (only 3 of us total) and realized my story is truly that bad. It is truly an issue with my H and an issue with me and my codependence. I will go back to the meeting next Thursday. I feel like that was a good start.
My H on the other hand thinks it's ridiculous that I'm going and says that I'm psycho-analyzing everything. He doesn't feel he has a problem. I told him that doesn't change the fact that I have a problem and I need to be fixed. We argued right before I walked out the door and I still went. Feeling guilty and running late I still went. I was very proud of myself. Any other time I would have stayed and fought with him or stayed and shut down (I tend to shut down when he gets critical of me).
So I have another question for everyone. I'm in this "hyper bonding" thing with my H right now. It's like I cannot get enough attention from him (rather I feel I need to give him this attention so he doesn't stray again). However last night I figured out that he's the most selfish lover a person could have. It's really never been about me in making love it's always been about him. It never really hit me until last night. I know I shouldn't be having sex with him (it is safe sex) and I really feel terrible afterwards but I just cannot stop myself from trying to please him and fix him. See I am totally codependent, which I'm starting to really open my eyes to. But my ultimate question is are a lot of SA's selfish lovers with their SO or is it just my H?
[This message edited by newday2day at 8:04 AM, October 24th (Friday)]