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User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ingrid,

I am sorry you are feeling so battered. You have every right to feel this way.

In response to your question, I may give you a "standard" answer, a "work for me" answer, and a "work for you" answer, for your reference.

I believe the "standard" answer shared by 99.9% of therapists and betrayed spouses is that absolutely no porn, period, end of story. It is believed that sobriety cannot permit porn. It is like dangling a light beer in front of an alcoholic - it's not full on sex, but it is often the beginning of the end, if you know what I mean.

"What works for me" answer in my particular situation is that porn can only be consumed if (a) it is not used as an escape from stress; (b) it is not consumed addictively; (c) it is not consumed on-line (only on DVDs); (d) it does not involve violence, under-age people, etc. This has worked for us for the following reasons. I am not against viewing porn in a responsible way and the therapist is closely monitoring the consumption of porn. I know it does not work for everybody, and I know most ladies here will cry foul, but it has worked for us. The interesting thing is, it is my spouse, not me, who insists that there can be no porn viewing on the internet. Because he tells me, once you try to view porn on line, then other more interactive sites (e.g. cybersex, personals, etc.) will pop up. He says he does not wish to risk it and has no desire to ever go down that road again (I can kiss his feet when he said that). Interestingly, even his DVD porn viewing has "naturally" reduced since D Day, now that he has learned to reduce stress in healthier ways. I warn you, I am the minority of one here. I am not sharing this as a shining example of what is right - I am just sharing what has worked for me so far.

Finally, there is a "what works for you" answer. It sounds like you are not comfortable with his viewing porn at all. When you think about it, even without the issue of sex addiction, porn viewing when someone is married is a very personal choice between the couples. We all know couples who do not watch porn, and those who watch them together. Each relationship is different. The important point is that YOU should have a say. If you are uncomfortable with that, then with or without sex addiction in the background, your spouse should not view it.

I hope this helps. You are in my thoughts. Hang in there. You are embarking on a long journey of many ups and downs, but we are here for you!

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 4:52 PM, November 7th (Friday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH always says he had no intentions of meeting these women. HA! Then why do it? Especially prostitutes and contacting women through personals. Idiot!

That's what I am trying to figure out. On his profile it makes no indication he's committed, not that I'm surprised.

I don't even understand the point of tempting oneself. I really don't. My partner also did the hooker thing-review sites, craigslist you name it. He looked up escorts, their services, and their prices. To me that says you are trying to hire one.

I'm still mad about that counseling session from months ago. I really do feel like it hurt our relationship.


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, November 8th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Joining your group AGAIN. Same place I was at last year. Same problems. Same questions.

FWH mets the "criteria" of a SA, but I'm still wondering if he's truly a SA or if it should be classified as something else. It seems like MOST SA's their drug of choice is sex/porn. Heavy usage. I've been spying like a madwoman on FWH for the past year and a half. (Started when I accidentally found evidence that he'd signed up for six married dating profiles in the period of one week. As far as I could tell he only looked at profiles, never contacted anyone, and quit after that one week. (Almost like he was on a binge)). That incident actually happened two years ago. In the past year and a half (since I've been spying - which he doesn't know), he's only viewed porn TWICE. Normal porn and only for a few minutes.

He has admitted to a MC that he was using porn as a quick high, but very rarely did it (which seems to be the case). He's got FOO issues (including addiction) that need to be dealt with and I think this porn issue (more of a BOUNDARY issue?) is part of that.

Should he still be considered a SEX ADDICT if his drug of choice is not always sex/porn? More times than not I think he's able to turn it around into something less harmful (such as online video game obsession, etc).


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
PoorTwistedMe
♀ Member
Member # 20956
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, November 8th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To answer Ingrid,
Porn is the "slippery slope" to an SA to bait them to act out again... it a No-No, period! If he is fighting the issue he is obviously not ready to recover yet or is still in deep denial. Counseling and a 12 Step are crucial to a SA's on the road to recovery.
_______________________________

Also, Want to ask if there is anyone else out there whose "SA" WS is also in a 12 Step and working on their steps. My WH just finished his Step 1 for his SA.


Twisted

DDay- 14 Aug 08, 16 Sept 08, 22 Sept 08, 7 Oct 08, 27 & 28 April 09
Trickle Truth is Brutality


Posts: 150 | Registered: Sep 2008
Newtwood
♀ Member
Member # 21154
Default  Posted: 2:56 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I vent just a tiny bit here? *string of obscenities*

We went back to the doctor yesterday for our STD tests...she didn't get the results except the gonorrhea-negative.

She called the lab-they only did the one test even though the whole list of tests were on the same sheet of paper.

The 4 vials well 8 if you count both of us have been disposed of. WE HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN!!!!! More waiting... Gaaaah! I'm losing my mind here!


Faithful Wife of 24+ yrs: Me
WS: Him
OW(s): AFF Skanks/GRANDMOTHERS!!!

Status: Struggling Everday to
Survive

what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: North Carolina
HoBeGone
♀ New Member
Member # 21567
Default  Posted: 6:56 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Everyone!
I'm new, but I've been lurking since I originally found out about my husband's affair(s).

I am a 35 year old married mom of a 5 year old little boy. I have been with my husband for 7 years (married for the past 5) and found out on August 2, 2008 that he has been cheating on me our entire relationship.

I had my suspicions over the years, but he was quickly able to "shut me down" - for example, I would find hundreds of text messages to/from a particular number on our cell phone bill, but they wouldn't be on his phone - when I would question it, he would say he deleted the messages because they took up "too much space on his phone" and that they were from co-workers - and then the messages would STOP. Always arguing that I had "all the passwords" to his email/phone/voicemail accounts - and since that was true, I would let my suspicions "go".

Most recently, he had been receiving messages from an "old family friend" - and one day he forgot to delete one and it was VERY explicit. I questioned him about it and it was "a joke" - and again, he had been texting with this person hundreds of times a day, and the day after I mentioned it - the texting stopped.

I installed a keylogger on our computer - hoping that it would prove his fidelity to me - and what I found, I was SOOO not prepared for.

He had a secret email account. He had a secret Myspace account. He had been having sex with other women our entire relationship. Basically, living a double life.

There were videos, photos, 'romantic' emails going back as far as 2004.

When confronted he denied everything (of course) - and only confessed to what I had "proof" of. He had been with one particular woman for 2 years. The night I 'caught' him, he had been emailing 3 women at the same time.

Of course, I threw him out and 3 days later he had an appointment with a counselor, and asked me to come. In this counselor's office, I learned of more women, more affairs and of his compulsive masturbation. I've also learned of all the abuse he endured as a child and of the fact that I am co-dependent.

I've also learned that I have contracted herpes.

Since then, I've been thrown into a worldwind of of emotions. I am angry and betrayed for what he did to me, however, I am sympathetic and compassionate to what caused him to act out.

He will take full responsibility one minute and be defensive and blame shifting the next.

I honestly feel like a shell of my former self. I don't know what to believe anymore and even though I, now, feel like I have heard "enough" about his trysts (I have more details
than I need and that is my own fault) - I still don't feel I have gotten the whole "story" ... and feared that once I feel like my life is back on track, I will be blindsided again.

And I have been. After thinking things were going "well" (I hadn't spoken of the affairs in weeks, I'm on ADs, and trying to be a little "closer" to him (I have intimacy issues, too) - I told the counselor that I hadn't "checked up" on him in months.

I feel like I couldn't get back into my old habits and the false sense of control. I had to "let go of the outcome".

I log into the computer, and am in the process of deleting the "log files" (not the logger - I'm letting go, not giving up) and I notice some text messages (Oct 23/24) via sprintpcs (which is one of the ways I caught him.

When I started seeing the text messages, he would "go underground" and text the girls from our computer, and their replies would go to the 'secret' email address.

THIS time, he was texting the girl he was with for 2 years and the reply was going to the email address I know about but he was 'deleting it' immediately. Not to mention the fact that he was on that email account multiple times a day.

I was able to read the messages (he only sent 2) one was : I love you baby, and I miss you. I really wanted to see you tonight.
The other was : I think about you all day and night and I really wanted to see you.

Here's the thing, in the past he had never told these girls he "loved them" - second - he sent these from "my account" on the computer (I think he thinks I'm only monitoring HIS activities).

Both were on nights where he worked "overtime" - the thing is (he's a police dispatcher) I was listening to him on the radio ALL NIGHT (this is something I've always done - even before finding out)

When he came home for "dinner" that night (Nov 7), I confronted him (a little yelling, but not my usual out of control self) with the emails/texts and he said "it wasn't him" and he "doesn't know how those got on there".

I stopped the inquisition (without crying/yelling/etc) and said "ok".

When he got home from work that night, he found the air mattress, his PJs, and a pillow in the living room (we live in an apartment, so no extra bedroom)

He didn't question it, and just went to bed. The next day he's all apologetic, but still not admitting guilt.

Last night when he came home from work, same thing - air mattress, etc.

And that's where he'll stay - until he can be honest (which will probably be on Wed in counseling)

I have no proof that they saw each other, but I wouldn't doubt it.

I think what hurts the most is that he told her he missed her and that he loved her :(

I'm also scared that I'm not ready to "leave" - but I shouldn't have to put up with this.

I fully expected him to have 'slips' and stuff, but not to this degree (I thought porn/masturbation would be it) and who knows if he's been masturbating :(.

I feel like things got "back to normal" for us a little too quickly - if that makes sense?

We went away together for my son's birthday (Oct 16-19) we all went to Boston ... and on the 23rd (that I have proof of) he was texting her telling her he LOVED and MISSED her and couldn't stop THINKING ABOUT HER... :

I'm reading How To Mend A Shattered Heart - and it's really hitting home.

I guess my reason for posting is that I hope to get some insight from those of you with more experience.

I suck at setting boundaries - actually wait - I'm AMAZING at setting boundaries, I just suck at enforcing them.

We see the same IC (who is an addiction therapist - sex addiction included - and also a marriage counselor)

He had been working on us individually and together trying to deal with our individual problems, and then finding ways to build the intimacy in our marriage.

I also have a separate IC, because I thought it would be a nice "safe" place to vent.

I feel like he's going to go DEEPER and DEEPER underground (ie. calling her from work so I have no way of "checking") and that scares me.

I wish I knew WHY it scared me - is it the loss of "control" or the fact that I will have NO IDEA.

Please HELP ME - I feel like my entire life is slipping away and I can't stop!


[This message edited by HoBeGone at 7:00 AM, November 9th (Sunday)]


Me - 35F - BS - Smart, Beautiful, Faithful
Him - 29M - WS - Asshole, Diagnosed Sex Addict
Son - 5
Together 7.5 years, Married 5.5 years



Posts: 31 | Registered: Nov 2008
WantingtheTruth
♀ Member
Member # 20889
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HoBeGone
I feel like he's going to go DEEPER and DEEPER underground (ie. calling her from work so I have no way of "checking") and that scares me.

I wish I knew WHY it scared me - is it the loss of "control" or the fact that I will have NO IDEA.

Your answers for yourself may be in your own words. Reread them. He is going "deeper underground" in order to continue his behavior. You can drive yourself absolutely crazy trying to figure out what he is doing now.

I cannot advise you as to setting boundaries. I am separated from and getting a divorce from my spouse. All that I know about his activities I had to find myself after he left me. I did not have access to his cell phone or computer. I have followed the trail of cell phone calls and texts (not actual messages) to understand that I need to be here. I need the truth to start healing for me but I realize I will only have partial truths.

I do know that for me personally, with my spouse never telling any truths or showing any remorse, I could not imagine going through the rest of my life always wondering what he was doing outside of our marriage. The feeling of not having control over my life right now is the hardest for me to get past. I feel sure that my WS is moving on with his life that he has been creating for at least the past 18 months. I am caught in trying to find out about my life for the past 20 years to know how much of my past is based on lies. I cannot wait until I can start moving forward into a new life based on truths and on my terms.


The truth is easy to remember.
BW, 53, Divorcing WH
WH, 49, No truths, in denial
Married 14 years, together 20 years. Who is this man?

Posts: 91 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Georgia
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HoBeGone,

It broke my heart to read your post. Living with an SA is a difficult thing, to say the least.

he was texting her telling her he LOVED and MISSED her and couldn't stop THINKING ABOUT HER... :

Listen. I know this hurts to think about him telling her he loved her. That part of my FWH's A really hurt too. That and him discussing me and his 'miserable marriage' with her.

But this is part of SA. Many of these guys are not just looking for sex. They are looking for validation. When they find someone that will give it, they tell them anything the OP wants to hear to keep the A going.

The OP tells them how wonderful they are, both in the sack and just in general. My H hinted to the OW that he had major problems (porn and masturbation). Of course he never came right out and told her what it was. Oh no. That would never do. OW might not think he was such a bomb after that.

Even after D-Day when he told her he was an SA, sending her a website that described SA, she refused to believe him. She said, "You not as bad as you think you are."

In an email to me she told me that it was me convinced FWH that he was an SA. She said that as an artist (his passion) it was normal for him to look at the human body. I wanted to respond, "Well I'm not sure how watching tranny porn, or ones where one woman has 3 men, one in every orifice who eventually ejaculate all over her face, inspires his artistic self. But hey, I'm not an artist so what do I know."

As tempting as it was, I never replied to her at all.

What I'm saying is the SA may really believe they love the OW. What they really love is her acceptance of him as he wants to see himself.

I am fortunate in that my SA ended all contact with real women. He continued with the porn and masturbating post D-Day and still struggles with it.

It took me a long time to set boundaries and be prepared to enforce them. If H is still engaging in regular porn viewing and masturbation, and our sex life has not progressed because of this, and if he does not continue to do what it takes for him to heal (SAA meetings, etc.), within the next 6 months or so, I have to leave.

I have to leave not just to save myself but to save him. He needs to stay away from this toxic and destructive behaviour.

But initially, Hobegone, I couldn't set a boundary and enforce it to save my life. Give yourself a break.

Continue with educating yourself with books like Mending a Shattered Heart, and with the counseling. You will get stronger this way.

Eventually you will be able to set and enforce boundaries. There is no point in setting them when you know you probably cannot enforce them. Only set the ones you can enforce.

So welcome to our little group. I'm sorry you have to be here.



Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
HoBeGone
♀ New Member
Member # 21567
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the replies

I'm sorry to have to be here, too - and I'm sorry you are all here.

Eventually you will be able to set and enforce boundaries. There is no point in setting them when you know you probably cannot enforce them. Only set the ones you can enforce.

This boundary has been very easy to enforce - he's been working all weekend, and when he comes home, I'm already in bed (watching tv) and he goes to bed "out there" in the living room. I think that's why I chose it.

If he texts me ("I would never do anything to jeopardize this second chance you've given me" "I love you" " what's the baby (our son) doing" "do you want me to bring you dinner" "can I come there after work" "can I sleep there") I either don't reply, or reply with one or 2 words.

If he did NOTHING wrong and truly "doesn't know how those keystrokes got on our computer" then why are his actions so "remorseful" - (that's a rhetorical question, of course)

When I say I suck at boundaries, I mean the "big ones" - like making him leave and sticking to it.

I'm scared. Even though I hate what my life has become, and I know I deserve better - I feel like he's all I've got. "if he would just work it out" -

I think he said the "I love yous" and other pleasantries to her because he "had to pay the dealer" and now the price is a little higher.

See, when I found out - I emailed all the girls (who all thought they were the "only one") .

I didn't email them individually, I sent out one "so they could all meet each other" - and I included all of their nasty ass pictures in the email so they could all SEE each other being nasty ass whores.

I then emailed each of their bosses (reverse phone look-ups are a great thing - so are the assholes who send messages from their work emails) - the girl who works at the catholic college, the girl who was the manager of the store (thats the one with the 2 year affair because she was the most 'accessible') .. ALL of them - and sent the bosses their pictures (and cc'd each whore so they KNEW who sent the pics)

They've all been fired.

The thing is, if it had JUST BEEN HIM messing around and lying to THEM, I would have left them alone - that's not the case - they all knew he was married - to the point where some emails I saw they would say things like "she's got you whipped" and he would say things like "I can't see you today, people came home".

That's another thing - he wouldn't call me his "wife" and the counselor says that's from his shame.

He also said that while he was on his way to see them, he didn't think of me, us, nothing - but getting that fix... and as soon as he was done (literally before his underwear was back on) he felt the guilt/shame.

Then he would drive home and masturbate to "ease the pain" ...

I really believed he was sorry. I really believed he wanted to work on US. I'm just hurt.

I think this time hurts more than the original time .. because this time .. HE KNEW BETTER. And when you KNOW BETTER you DO BETTER.

:: let go of the outcome .. let go of the outcome .. let go of the outcome ::

[This message edited by HoBeGone at 9:38 AM, November 9th (Sunday)]


Me - 35F - BS - Smart, Beautiful, Faithful
Him - 29M - WS - Asshole, Diagnosed Sex Addict
Son - 5
Together 7.5 years, Married 5.5 years



Posts: 31 | Registered: Nov 2008
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Newtwood,

How absolutely frustrating! Like you needed this at this time. I'm so sorry you have to wait even longer. Hoping for a totally negative result when you finally get all the results.

I cannot wait until I can start moving forward into a new life based on truths and on my terms.

Wantingthetruth, good for you. I understand completely. Even though I am Ring with my SA, I sometimes get so tired of it all. I fantasize about living alone and not having to constantly feel out of control.

I share these feelings with H and he understands.

He's working really hard and has decided 'no more lies. I'm tired of doing it'.

He admits at times that he gets scared often; afraid that he will never beat this thing. I think he needs to come to a place where he really understands this is a life-long addiction. He will never really beat it. He will be an addict forever. But he can reach a point where is not an addict who is acting out.

His IC dumped him yesterday. IC said he has gone as far as he can with him and suggested he go elsewhere.

The thing is this IC is stuck on religion being the major issue here. He studied some expert's literature that claims this, and he has adopted this view.

He spent about 15 minutes on H's FOO (family of origin) issues. H said it was very good stuff and the sessions that concentrated on this were going really well. H was really connecting these issues with much of his adult behaviours. It was giving him understanding and thus hope for some real healing.

In this last session, after those 15 minutes, IC went into a discussion of religion and politics. H and IC are totally opposite in their view on these things.

The discussion continued for the rest of the 45 minutes in this hour session and then on for another 45 minutes.

It was at the end that IC dumped H. He's very gracious in that he did not want H to pay for this session. H insisted on paying him, saying he got a lot of insight and help from those first 15 minutes dealing with the FOO issues.

I have to give IC credit for recognizing he cannot take H any further. He does not want to take money if he feels this way. That's a sign of integrity and both H and I give him kudos to IC for that.

However, the IC started the off-topic conversation and became frustrated with the opposing argument from H. H can be frustrating in that he has a real passive-aggressive way about him. I think that drives the IC crazy.

Me on the other hand would have not been passive-aggressive. I would have let IC know exactly what I thought of what he was doing. I would have told him it was more to him to convince his client that IC had the right religious and political views. It was like he was tying H's views on these things to his SA.

I would have blasted him on this. SAs come from every group; every religious and political group. If he is going to limit his practice to those who believe as he does, he may end up finding out he has a problem with professionalism.

He also suggested H and I masturbate together. Is he nuts? This is a problem for H. He can't perform with normal sex because he masturbates too much and it has become the only way he can achieve orgasm. And he thinks doing it together is going to help?

Oh and he is also sending a female SA to the new SAA group in the area. H says he doesn't have a problem with that because he consciously distances himself with all women he deals with now. But the other guy in the group may have a problem with it. And what about the wives? I'm not all that comfortable with it, but I have to trust H's judgment on this. He is with women many days of the week in his volunteer work with art.

Anyway, I am quite annoyed with IC. If I see him and he brings this up, I will tell him exactly what I think.



Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He also said that while he was on his way to see them, he didn't think of me, us, nothing - but getting that fix... and as soon as he was done (literally before his underwear was back on) he felt the guilt/shame.

Then he would drive home and masturbate to "ease the pain" ...

Yup. I heard the same thing. With the A, he had to stay the night with her, so he would just go to sleep after the sex to get away from the guilt and shame. In the morning, without fail, she would rag on him for not holding her all night while they slept.

I asked H how he felt after he had sex with the two ONSs and the OW in the affair. Immediately, he said it was like he had gone into the bedroom, viewed internet porn and masturbated. It was no different.

OW would have a bird if she knew that. She thought it was magical love making (her words in an email I found).

I'm scared. Even though I hate what my life has become, and I know I deserve better - I feel like he's all I've got. "if he would just work it out" -

Oh honey, I so know how you feel. I found out 3 weeks after I had gone home to bury my father, my last parent. My mom had died 18 months earlier. H did not come home with me for dad's funeral. He tried to avoid going to see OW. But the wimp caved when she phoned him and told him she so needed him because her drug-addicted daughter was trying to move in with her. That one still sticks in my craw!

Anyway, when I found out about the A, my whole world fell out beneath my feet. I was no longer a daughter, and now I might not be a wife. H was out of town and I couldn't get in touch with him for another 16 hours.

I felt so lost. H was my whole world. I began to realize I had looked in my H's eyes to define who I was. For 31 years!! I remember sobbing on the phone with my sister saying, "I don't know who I am. I really don't know who me is any more."

But HoBeGone, with time and IC as well as copious amounts of reading I discovered (or re-discovered?) who this person was. And you know what? I like her. I like who she has become. She is resolute and confident. Oh she has setbacks, but overall she is one amazing broad.

People notice the difference. Another sister jokes, "Where's my sister gone? I don't recognize her any more."

Co-workers see a different person too. I take care to dress well and get compliments on my outfits all the time.

H has seen the change as well. It scared him a bit at first because his gaslighting didn't work any longer. But he likes her in addition to loving her.

You'll get there, HBG. You will.

See, when I found out - I emailed all the girls (who all thought they were the "only one") .
I didn't email them individually, I sent out one "so they could all meet each other" - and I included all of their nasty ass pictures in the email so they could all SEE each other being nasty ass whores.

ALL of them - and sent the bosses their pictures (and cc'd each whore so they KNEW who sent the pics)
They've all been fired.

You rock, Girlfriend!! You totally rock!!

You know if more of us did things like this, consequences of infidelity would be felt more often. As it stands now, living in a world with a 'Monogamy Myth', to quote Peggy Vaughn's book, infidelity is not only encouraged, it is carried out with too few consequences.

[This message edited by 1Forward1Back at 10:01 AM, November 9th (Sunday)]


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
HoBeGone
♀ New Member
Member # 21567
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

1Forward1Back - I'm so sorry for your losses. I can't even begin to imagine your pain.

I lost my mom in 2005 and when I found out about his affairs (through the secret email addy) he was texting/meeting while that was going on :( so I understand.

and :

See, when I found out - I emailed all the girls (who all thought they were the "only one") .
I didn't email them individually, I sent out one "so they could all meet each other" - and I included all of their nasty ass pictures in the email so they could all SEE each other being nasty ass whores.
ALL of them - and sent the bosses their pictures (and cc'd each whore so they KNEW who sent the pics)
They've all been fired.

You rock, Girlfriend!! You totally rock!!

You know if more of us did things like this, consequences of infidelity would be felt more often. As it stands now, living in a world with a 'Monogamy Myth', to quote Peggy Vaughn's book, infidelity is not only encouraged, it is carried out with too few consequences.

Thanks!

LOL.. I give myself a chuckle when I think of the poor unsuspecting bosses .. picture it :

You get to work, take off your jacket, put your little dunkin donuts cup next to your keyboard and sit down to check your emails .. and there it is. BAM - just straight up nastiness .. of your CO-WORKER/SUBORDINATE... yeah.. heh

There's a reason why I put their names in the subject line (ie. Jane Doe - why do I have these naked pictures of you on my computer?) - that's so that the bosses wouldn't delete it thinking it was some sort of spam (since it was coming from an "outside" account - I also made the subject line "too juicy not to open" Heh.


[This message edited by HoBeGone at 10:51 AM, November 9th (Sunday)]


Me - 35F - BS - Smart, Beautiful, Faithful
Him - 29M - WS - Asshole, Diagnosed Sex Addict
Son - 5
Together 7.5 years, Married 5.5 years



Posts: 31 | Registered: Nov 2008
Ingrid
♀ Member
Member # 20126
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all.

Birdwatch: I am very concerned with your bowing down to less than what you want, a lovely and beautiful wife that you are. You said:

"What works for me" answer in my particular situation is that porn can only be consumed if (a) it is not used as an escape from stress; (b) it is not consumed addictively; (c) it is not consumed on-line (only on DVDs); (d) it does not involve violence, under-age people, etc. This has worked for us for the following reasons".

I totally see this I'm afraid as an excuse. And I feel this is NOT RIGHT IN ANY SENSE OF A MARRIAGE. But if YOu are willing to put up with it, then of course it is your call, and no one's else.

I ask you birdwatch: WHY is any porn at all working for you? Contributing to your marriage? How is it? Don't you desire your precious husband's 100% fidelity? I know I do, I desire my husband's 100% committment, or else, our marriage is over. I really wonder how you can say, and feel you're willing to sacrifice?" that you're willing to give away part of your beloved hubby to immorality? How is this possible? Please explain, if you don't mind. This concerns me, that you even have a counselor who says these things. I think, marriage is all or nothing. That there is no room for anyone else in it, whether it be porn stars, porn, etc., there is simply no room. Either a man, and woman, fully commit, 100% or they don't. I cannot understand where there is ANY room in a marriage for any porn entering the marriage bed at all. It is an atrocity, IMO.

Please let me know Birdwatch how YOU feel. Love you.


Posts: 232 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: L.A. CA
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HoBeGone, your story brought tears to my eyes. Well, except your revenge that made me . (((((HUGS)))))

I suck at making boundaries except big ones. He knows if he does a certain thing it's see ya later pal.

I'm finishing up MaSH. Finally! I really like it.

How did every choose which meeting (SA, Sra, etc) was best fitting for their situation?

While reading mash, it started talking about dressing sexy. If I do, I just feel like I'm doing it to keep him from acting out. Thinking about what he has done to makes me feel more inhibited, and I dont do alll the fun things I really desire.

I definitely agree that a lot of counselors and people in general neglect the Sa's partner's needs b/c they are usually female and there is a patriarchal dynamic. I remember our former counselor telling me that men view sex as physical and women it's emotional. So along the lines of that thinking him having sex with me would be just like him having a ONS? Geez, I hope not. Although sometimes I did feel like I was some kind of whore, and he was just doing it to me not with me.

[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 5:44 PM, November 9th (Sunday)]


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hoping2heal

Porn is by no means aa prerequisite to SA. My H fully admits to being SA, but porn holds very little interest for him.

Acting out behaviors are pretty individual, and even the folks who do use porn, many have their own particular "brand" that appeals to them.

Don't rule it out based on lack of porn.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3557 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Ingrid,

Thank you so much for your concern and I am very touched. I have only 3 minutes here to reply to your post so please do not take it the wrong way if this post is going to be short.

I will think very hard about your take on porn over the next couple of weeks and discuss it with my own counsellor. I suppose the difference is that I do not see porn as immoral. Some couples, for example, willingly and happily consent to being swingers and have open relationships(which is not my style). Other couples believe masturbation in a marriage (or in any context) is wrong. For example, I know friends who view masturbation as a sin in accordance with their religious faiths. I happen to think, even before I am in a relationship, that porn that does not involve violence etc. is not necessarily unhealthy. The question, is true, is that whether a sex addict can ever be trusted to use porn in a non-destructive way.

I agree that I should explore the issue in more details with my own counsellor and your post will give me much food for thought.

Thank you again for your love and support. Sorry, must run.

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 9:33 AM, November 10th (Monday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Here is what I know now about SA thanks to my hubby's "secret" passion. Porn is absolutely toxic to a sexual addict. You don't give an alcoholic just one beer. In everything I have read about recovery for a SA, they need to learn to rethink sex. They have to quit objectifying women--that is a big part of why they are able to pursue this passion--they really think this is a "harmless" pursuit! If the woman they are viewing turns out to be the daughter of their best friend--or their sister--they are going to have a lot of trouble getting interested! For my part, if we see a hooker on the street or on tv--I say things like "I wonder what her father thinks of her job, I wonder if she has children, I wonder if she has been abused that makes her able to let men just use her for money". I try to put the humanity back into these women--because the SA does not see these women as human. It is a disgusting sickness of people using other people for their own selfish interest. The john is no better than the pimp. And no better than a drug dealer. And the porn industry is a big industry. There have been a lot of recent studies that show that the makers of these videos and films know how to keep the addict addicted (Just like nicotine)--they know what part of the brain gets stimulated and so they know what to show to keep them coming back and wanting more. And it will never be enough--the more they see, the more they want.

When I asked my hubby what he was looking for on the chatroom and dating sites and the porn sites and all that crap--he told me he really didn't know. He described it as being kind of in a fog--I believe him. A way to numb the pain and loneliness he was feeling and make the time pass quicker. The studying I have done on this shows that a lot of men learn this as a way to medicate depression or pain, and I know for a fact that my hubby learned this when he was about 7 because his dad had stashes of magazines around and they actually kept some of that trash on their bookshelves! (Great family, huh!) Between the pervasiveness of this in their home, and the fact that my H was abused by a neighbor boy at a really young age, he did not have a chance. He has been sexualized at a very young age and grew up thinking this was normal. Now he is older and knows enough to hide it, but he doesn't know how to fix it.

He is really a decent, loving man, but he has a really big problem that I cannot live with forever. I am hoping he will get some help for it and I believe the only chance will be a good licensed SA therapist or maybe the 12 step program. I could use any prayers or well wishes that he will figure out that he needs help and it is possible for him to get better!

I will also bet if you look deep into the background of your SA, you will find some abuse or pornography early in their lives. Knowledge is power--and the more you find out about this disease, the better chance you have of fighting it. There is a lot of information on the internet about sexual/porn addiction and your local library! Good luck to everyone --I am sorry anyone else has to go through this kind of pain.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14917 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HoBeGone,
Welcome to our little club -- the reason we're all here sucks...but we're a loyal, lovable bunch so there's an upside to all this!
I can understand -- indeed have felt -- your pain. But the day I finally "got it", my husband had said to me that he didn't think of me -- AT ALL -- on his way to meet whatever hookup he had. He -- and most SAs -- are master compartmentalizers. That's why they're able to do what they do. The shame, remorse and self-loathing, when it comes, is so overwhelming that the only way to function is to bury it. Some have it buried so deep it's barely perceptible, except in their self-destructive actions. Keep reading and posting and you'll get to the place where you realize this isn't about you and certainly not about "loving" someone else. But their "drug" has become so powerful they'll do what it takes to keep it coming. No different than a crack addict who'll steal from his wife to keep his supply available...

Newtwood,
Hope you get the REAL results soon and that they ease your mind.

To everyone else,
We all have our specific situations and I don't necessarily believe that healing is a one-size-fits-all thing. As we move forward, we'll all get better at setting our own boundaries and respecting ourselves. I'm awed the progress I'm seeing here...and amazed at the compassion and support.

I'm doing better than I was. I'm trying to access my feelings through this numbness that has pervaded for far too long. As my IC said, you can't simply suppress some feelings and not others. If you bury your feelings, you bury the good with the bad. I have to work through the sadness in order to also feel the happiness. So now when I feel that pain welling up -- I miss my mom, or feel sad about how many of my memories are "lost" -- I try to feel it rather than push it aside. Surprisingly to me, it doesn't engulf me. And when it has passed, I feel a little bit lighter. So I'm seeing light at the end of this tunnel...
I'm off on holiday tomorrow with my husband and three kids so won't be back until Nov. 20. Until then, hang in there, everyone!


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
HoBeGone
♀ New Member
Member # 21567
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone :)

I have to ask - has anyone ever felt like this was all "bullshit" and there IS no such thing as SA and our husbands are just assholes?

I feel like ... I don't know .. like I'M the one being "used" and "played" not these OW.

And those words .. those words "I love you, I miss you, I really wanted to see you" just burn to the core.

His response when I asked him about it and CONFRONTED HIM WITH THE PRINTED OUT PROOF from the keylogger (meaning I only got what HE typed not what she replied with)?

"I don't know how that got there" "it wasn't me" and a TEARFUL "PLEASEEEE you HAVVVE to believe me"

I was 'calm' and said "who am I going to believe? The person who's been lying, cheating and manipulating me for the past 7 years ... or my lying eyes?"

I walked away "calmly" and he was still crying out "I don't know how it got there" and I just replied with "Ok" and a shrug and he went back to work after that -

When he came home that night - I was in bed watching TV and I had put the air mattress (sans pump , a pillow and his PJs out there).

For about 30 minutes or so I could hear him out there huffing and puffing blowing up the mattress.

The following day he left for work and that night, about 20 or so minutes before he's going to get off he texts me asking if he can "come over" and when I reply "sure" he asks if he can "sleep here" ... he ACTS guilty .. but just can't TELL ME THE TRUTH.

I have a feeling he's going to "come clean" this Wednesday at the counseling session - but I'm not sure I want to live like this anymore...

I'm scared to "let him go" .. but I think I'm almost MORE scared to keep living like this (wondering).

I've been "letting go" and I was feeling a little more 'secure' .. I think that's why it caught me SOOO off guard. THAT and the fact that he's telling her he loves and misses her.

I just hate the feeling that he's biding his time ... I mean, I am capable of taking care of things here financially (he didn't work for over a year and a half and I paid EVERYTHING) - so this time it should be easier with one less mouth to feed, you know?

NOW today (he's off from work) and is acting like a complete asshole. So he goes from the wounded puppy who's acting soo guilty .. to a complete asshole who's basically "shut down".

I don't want this.


[This message edited by HoBeGone at 1:11 PM, November 10th (Monday)]


Me - 35F - BS - Smart, Beautiful, Faithful
Him - 29M - WS - Asshole, Diagnosed Sex Addict
Son - 5
Together 7.5 years, Married 5.5 years



Posts: 31 | Registered: Nov 2008
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ingrid, those are some good questions.

NaiveAgain, I also try to put the humanity back into women who work in the sex industry. I think: Is she a single mom trying to make money? Is she abused? How did she get here? I've never read any studies, but I've *heard* a lot of them are. IMO doing that just makes them seem a whole lot less glamorous and sexy.

I think OH has an issue with seeing them as people. He seems to have a penchant for the very unattractive ones. I think it's because he views them as especially beneath him.

IA that men are taught to use this as a means of escape from early on. I suspect that some men are taught to go there when they are happy/sad/angry kinda like when people eat b/c they are happy/sad/angry. It becomes they're coping mechanism. My OH used to be a major strip club visitor, vip rooms and everything. I can only trust he doesn't do that while he's on business trips.

I know the ramifications of porn at a young age firsthand even if it's "just" nudey magazines. I do not want that in my house when I have children!

NaiveAgain, I hope things get better for you.

I'm still trying to figure out why OH thinks other women are sexy when they are naked, but heaven forbid I be naked b/c that's just annoying (most of the time).


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

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