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User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, December 5th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hope4tomorrow,

While betrayed spouses all share similar experiences, for betrayed spouses of sex addicts, we have a further hurdle to jump, which is our spouses' addiction and related shame and guilt.

You are correct to say that most wayward spouses compartmentalize. It sounds like the issue with your spouse is not a lack of empathy or sensitivity in general, but the fact that he has such emotional baggage that he has to resolve for himself, before he can fully support you and your plight. And I assure you that you are not alone.

Not to excuse their behaviours, but in the beginning stages, for them to manage their compulsion/addiction is like an alcoholic having cravings but struggling to be sober. That is in itself a full-time job.

And if their addiction originated as an escape mechanism from dealing with everyday stresses, now we have "taken away" the (dysfunctional) way of dealing with stress. Unfortunately, now they actually have to face stress in life without the tool to do so.

Mixing into that is their shame and guilt. They may truly wish to be supportive, to listen to how hurt we are, how disappointed we are in them and in life, how betrayal has changed the way we look at the world and other people in general, how distrustful we are, etc. However, being human beings, our spouses generally have a hard time listening to all these emotions. They know they are wholly responsible for causing every hurt and disappointment we are experiencing.

As I said, I am not excusing their infidelity or their inability to empathize with our hurt. I am merely pointing out that for a remorseful spouse who is committed to change, we have to recognize they are human and they may not be able to attend fully to our emotional needs especially in the beginning. Each of you and your spouse has to support each other as best you can, and seek healing from your respective IC in the early stages.

I hope this helps.

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 12:34 PM, December 5th (Friday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, December 5th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, birdwatch.

I think you've definitely got it right. It was his escape and now that's taken away. I think he's a little lost himself.

I will definitely try to support him as much as I can and I know that he's going to try to do what he can.

He did tell me last night that before he was trying to recover to save our marriage but this time, he wants to save himself. He's doing it for him and for us. So that gave me the teensiest bit of hope that maybe he can do it this time.

I really appreciate your long, thought out response.

I'm so glad to have found this thread.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
shenpa1
♀ Member
Member # 11710
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, December 5th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

birdwatch,what you are doing by not checking up for a week and writing your thoughts down is a great idea. The constant need to check up can also become a
form of addiction. The desire to check and monitor is no different than the our spouses desire to act out. We convince ourselves that checking is for our own protection. But the constant need to monitor really serves no purpose other than to feed the cycle itself. It renders you powerless and is really a method of avoiding and working on your own internal feelings.

When the urge arises to check
why not stop and ask yourself why am I feeling this way? What am I fearful of at this moment? What is happening in the relationship that is causing me to have these feelings of doubt? Why am I feeling so insecure? What is H doing or not doing that is causing me to feel this way? Is this a me thing or is this really something to do with H? Has this become a habit or is there really something going on here? Ask the questions, answer the questions then move towards
sharing and communicating them with your spouse.

I don't think we can demand accountability from our SA spouses and not do the same for ourselves. If you desire honesty and integrity from H then you must hold yourself to the same standard.

Keeping a journal and monitoring and checking in with your own feelings is a big step in healing. Being honest with yourself and understanding the causes and conditions that make you want
to repeatedly check is a massive step towards taking care of yourself and your needs. Having the ability to discuss the fears, concerns and overall feelings of anxiety with H is also a step towards healing and reconciliation. Honest communication with yourself and H is a much healthier way to heal. Once the lines of communciation open and both patners have the ability to discuss hurts, fears and feelings without being judged
shamed, or humilitated you find your need to constantly check will lessen immensly.


Me BS-49
H- WH-46
D-day #1 05/05 H Admits to PA #1
D-day #2 10/06 PA#2,3,4,&5 (ouch!)
Children: 3
Married 12 years



Posts: 396 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: CA
thetruthwins
♀ Member
Member # 21722
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, December 5th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is essential in recovering from any kind of addiction:

before he was trying to recover to save our marriage but this time, he wants to save himself.

From the Recovery Nation workshop for Sex/Love Addicts:

I. If your primary motivation to recover stems from the desires of others...

You will fail in your recovery. External motivation is simply not capable of producing the necessary emotional stimulation that is required to overcome the intensity of a compulsive urge over extended periods of time. The single exception to this rule is when, in the course of recovery, you somehow connect to your own personal reasons for wanting to change...but this is rare. If you are currently engaging in a recovery process for the sake of others, expect to fail. Go through the motions if you must, but somewhere down the road, unless core changes are made within your life, expect addiction to remain a part of your life for a long, long time.

Examples of this type of recovery motivation:

*My wife says she will leave me if I don't go through treatment
* Addiction treatment was part of my legal sentence
* I have to attend AA in order to see my kids again
* My employer will not hire me back until I have completed treatment

Now to clarify, what is meant by 'recovery failure' is not the ability to maintain abstinence. Forced abstinence can be achieved with any motivator--given it's intensity. Recovery failure in this context is meant as the inability to permanently transition from addiction to a healthy lifestyle.

II. If your primary motivation to recover stems from the consequences of your addiction...

A second common motivator in recovery is the hitting of 'rock bottom'. Or in realistic terms, hitting the point where the pain of the addiction can no longer be numbed by the addiction itself. The emotional pain of the addiction's consequences have grown too great, and once this occurs, the motivation to end the addiction kicks in as the addiction no longer is capable of serving its purpose. Although this is a significantly more powerful motivator than the first, it too, is ultimately doomed for failure in long-term recovery. Or, more accurately, it is doomed for a long-term recovery/relapse cycle.

What happens is this: when the emotional pain becomes too great to temporarily manage with the compulsive behaviors, the decision/commitment to recover provides an intense emotional boost that helps to manage that pain. The person feels good. That feeling may last for weeks, it may last for months. But eventually, inevitably, the emotional intensity that came with the commitment to recover wanes, and the person finds themselves once again lacking in their ability to manage their emotional life. A return to the addiction (or another addiction) is the only learned emotional management response that is effective. This, followed by a re-commitment to recovery...followed by another relapse...followed by, well, you get the idea. The cycle will not end until the motivation for ending it has changed.

Those who are motivated by a desire to end the pain of their addiction fair much better than those who are recovering for the sake of others. And, such individuals can generate sustained, long-term recovery efforts. For success to occur, the key will be found in their ability to move past the initial stages of recovery and begin to adopt healthy life management skills that will allow them to achieve emotional maturity.

III. If your primary motivation to recover stems from no longer wanting to live such a lifestyle...

With this being your motivator, you can be assured--right now--that a permanent recovery is possible. Not easy. Not guaranteed. But by following the path that has been set forth by thousands before you, it is absolutely within your reach. Should you choose to pursue it. Why is this the critical motivation for a permanent recovery? Because recovery, while certainly aided by social support, is a very private, personal act. The biggest demons you will face will not be the social barriers placed in front of you, but the personal ones that exist within you. Nobody can make you communicate honestly with yourself. No one can take responsibility for your thoughts, actions and desires. No one can point out to you the internal games that you are playing with yourself in order to maintain some connection to your addictive past. Or the games that you will play as the addiction begins creeping back in. All of these skills are critical in a permanent recovery...and the only way of developing them is with a commitment to do so. Because you want to...not because you have to.

With this personal commitment and honesty in place, all else on the recovery path can be effectively put into perspective. From the consequences of your past, to the rebuilding of your future. From forgiveness to acceptance to letting go. From every possible trigger and barrier to every single reward that is experienced. It is all based in how real you are willing to be with yourself. And how committed you are to living a real life.

www.recoverynation.com


Me BS age 40
Him WH age 41
Son age 5
ONS on 10/31, DDay 11/1 but problems with prior deceit, porn addiction, general compulsiveness. I wouldn't let him come home on DDay.
Update: He's in IC! Yay! Moved home 11/26, things are going great. Whew!

Posts: 656 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: the here and now
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 6:59 PM, December 5th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hope4tomorrow,
I agree that it sounds promising. I remember asking my husband whether he would go back to SA behaviours if I left him. His response was that he never wanted to be that person again -- whether he was with me or not, he didn't want to be that person. In that moment, I knew how committed he was to recovery.

birdwatch,
I echo everything you said. Reconciling with SA spouses is further complicated by their inability to cope with so much in their own lives. It's frustrating but most of us can expect only minimal support. My husband, who pledged undying support at the beginning, now has trouble hearing that I'm still struggling sometimes. All his feelings of shame rush up and his first response is anger. I'm now able to point that out to him and he's able to respond that he's angry at himself, not me. But it's still his kneejerk response.
However, as he continues to go to his SA group and talk with his IC, he's getting FAR better at accessing his own feelings and, therefore, better at allowing me mine.

It's not that these guys don't have feelings. It's that the feelings are so overwhelming that they've used sex to distract them from feeling them.

Did anyone read the article in the October 2008 issue of Oprah Magazine called Love Among the Ruins? I just read it at the hair salon yesterday. While my husband says he was never sexually abused (the basic thrust of the article), I have my doubts. And much of what these men said re. sex is from the SA "script". That they felt undeserving of love, that no-one would love them if they really knew them, that they were disgusting people... The idea of discussing sex with their spouses in a non-judgemental way was beyond them. It was a really interesting article.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Newtwood
♀ Member
Member # 21154
Default  Posted: 4:24 AM, December 6th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just kind of overwhelmed right now (too tired of everything and dealing with it).

Most of you I've talked to before here and other threads *waves hi to NaiveAgain.

I've got a small question. What are your thoughts on if he quits online porn cold turkey stating he knows it sets him up for more indulgences and more frustration and a personality change (due to the frustration).

My feeling on it is he isn't owning up to it and doesn't want to deal. Eventually his stress will get to him (work related usually) and add any discord at home and he will be right back into it. I don't think going cold turkey has ever worked for any addiction-maybe some people's smoking.


Faithful Wife of 24+ yrs: Me
WS: Him
OW(s): AFF Skanks/GRANDMOTHERS!!!

Status: Struggling Everday to
Survive

what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: North Carolina
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, December 6th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Newtwood

That is what my WS is doing right now. He gave me his laptop (which was the source of everything he had done to act out), doesn't need computer for work, and told me he was not addicted (at the time I didn't know about SA and I told him I felt he had a porn addiction). He said he didn't have an addiction, because an addiction is when you can't stop (I now know better--I wish I had had the answer then when he was actually considering the topic) because he could stop, and I do believe he hasn't accessed anything since d-day (I really don't know for sure--just my feeling that he is not "using" right now). So he is trying to go cold turkey.

Here is my feeling on my situation. Even if he never again looks at porn or acts out in that way, it won't be good enough. Because now my eyes are opened, and I realize I was not getting the sexual intimacy I am entitled to as his wife. He has not changed his thought pattern, or the very core of himself, and that is where this addiction arose from. At some point, somehow, he is going to need to "get it". I really want counseling, but if he will do the 12 step program (right now I am reading the Sexaholics Anonmous book), then I think that would be a great start. I want a deeper, more intimate relationship, and he still has darkness in his core, and as long as he is keeping secrets (whatever they may be--big or little), and hiding from himself and the rest of the world, it is not enough. It does make me a little more secure, and of course the STD safety is a great boon, but I want more. I want him to heal, and knowing myself at this point, I won't be able to settle for anything less. But while he abstains, I am willing to wait and work on it, probably for quite a while.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14912 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
shenpa1
♀ Member
Member # 11710
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, December 6th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Netwood- I think you need to give H some credit. Going cold turkey is just like NC.
It's a starting point. Stopping viewing porn coupled with his realization that it elicits other behaviors that he doesn't like is a big step in the right direction.

One of my requirements for staying in the marriage was H had to attend SA meetings. I'm not certain if he would have attended had I not demanded. After the first month, he was grateful and looked forward to attending the meeting. He was surprised to see so many men struggling with the same issues as him.There are parts of the program that he doesn't like at all. "The higher power"-God talk is hard for him. Through the meetings he has developed a wonderful support network and made lasting friendships as well. These men call each other on a daily basis just to check in and offer support.

NaiveAgain, I think intimacy in a marriage is built with communication and not sex. Sex
can certainly add to the intimacy, but you can have sex all day long and still not be intimate.



Me BS-49
H- WH-46
D-day #1 05/05 H Admits to PA #1
D-day #2 10/06 PA#2,3,4,&5 (ouch!)
Children: 3
Married 12 years



Posts: 396 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: CA
thetruthwins
♀ Member
Member # 21722
Default  Posted: 2:20 PM, December 6th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Newtwood and Naive -

ABSTINENCE IS NOT RECOVERY!!!

Seriously, I'm going to give you some straight talk here:

If an addict (porn, booze, drugs, shopping - you name it) SUPPRESSES their urges - they WILL RELAPSE.

If going to SA/AA/NA meetings is what is keeping the person sober - if the meetings stop, sobriety stops.

THE ADDICT HAS TO CHANGE THEIR THINKING ON A FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL. SUPPRESSION DOES NOT WORK LONG TERM!

Sometimes people go into recovery, work the 12 steps, and rediscover their values and the desire to act out disappears. Some work the 12 steps, stay sober through sheer willpower, which doesn't remove the desire to act out, and 5 or 10 years down the road, they trigger and act out.

Don't mistake going cold turkey for being healed.

I've spent half my life around heroin addicts in recovery, and my WS is a Sex Addict. I know where the 12 steps fail, I've seen it.

Read the www.recoverynation.com workshop for Sex/Love Addicts. I think it's the best program I've ever seen for compulsive behavior. You can do SA, IC and the Recovery Nation program all at the same time if your WS really wants to change.


Me BS age 40
Him WH age 41
Son age 5
ONS on 10/31, DDay 11/1 but problems with prior deceit, porn addiction, general compulsiveness. I wouldn't let him come home on DDay.
Update: He's in IC! Yay! Moved home 11/26, things are going great. Whew!

Posts: 656 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: the here and now
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, December 7th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

newtwood, naive, thetruthwins and others,

Thank you, thetruthwins, for your persepective on what constitutes "true recovery".

I agree with thetruthwins and wish to phrase it another way: recovery necessarily entails abstinence, but abstinence does not necessarily entail recovery. (Sort of like, all fathers are men, but not all men are fathers?)

As to what is the best way to achieve recovery, I believe it is individual specific. It is akin to asking what is the best way to quit smoking. We all know smokers who quit cold turkey, while others need to "ease off it". I think what is the best way for a SA to achieve recovery should be determined with the help of a professional and/or group, while taking into account your wishes as a spouse.

For long term recovery, I believe a SA needs to,

(a) recognize a life plagued by SA is self-destructive, and wish to change for a healthier and happier life for himself;

(b) lift the fog and recognize compartmentalization so that he appreciates the consequences of SA on himself, others and his marriage;

(c) understand the causes that led to SA in the first place and resolve these isues;

(d) develop life skills and make new lifestyle choices.

During the course of recovery, a SA may achieve one or more of these goals at different times. Ultimately, however, a SA cannot achieve sustainable recovery without taking care of all these elements.

Finally, I urge all of us to remember, recovery from SA is SA's responsibility. While we should be supportive, we cannot control a SA's recovery or its success. I agree that we should arm ourselves with information. However, there is a point where we have to look after OURSELVES and think about OUR healing. (I just wish I can take my own advice, sigh).

Hang in there everyone!

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 12:15 PM, December 7th (Sunday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, December 7th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A small report on my experiment - no checking up Mr. B's emails for one week...

First, I strongly suggest to everyone here who has been checking up on your spouse, like me. If you have an IC, you should work with him/her. The experiment does not need to last for one week - it can be a day of that's all you think you can handle.

So this is my short report so far on Day Four:

* I slipped once on Day 2 (I checked his emails). That was a humbling experience. It gave me a real appreciation of what our sex-addicted spouses must have to overcome, and what goes through one's mind when one is compelled to engage in unhealthy activity and break a promise (in this case, the promise to myself not to check up).

* Previously, while I was checking up, the feeling of anxiety overwhelmed other feelings. Now, I am experiencing other feelings more fully. Although the feelings themselves are not pleasant (e.g. resentment, lack of control and resignation are more pronounced), I think it is a good thing that these feelings are now surfacing so that I can deal with them (with the help of my IC).

If anyone of you are also embarking on this experiment, please do share your experience!
birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 2:50 PM, December 7th (Sunday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, December 7th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I totally agree with what everyone has been saying, abstinence is a start, and it helps us feel somewhat more comfortable, but unless he deals with his deeper issues, I completely understand if he doesn't regress into the SA, he will pick up another addiction, because he is still running from himself and his secrets. And I do know I don't want to live with an addict, whatever form it takes. He isn't there for me, even when he is not "using."

I am currently reading sexaholics anonymous, and I love the 12 steps, especially the part about admitting your faults and making amends. I can see how that would be a very positive thing in a life filled with secrets and shame. I also joined COSA and have heard back from a member and am planning on going to my first meeting probably in about a week or so.

I haven't been checking up on my SA lately, I haven't found anything for quite a while, but I did get really sick to my stomach when I realized he could buy a cheap phone and put minutes on it and there is no way I can check to see if he is arranging "dates" or not. Since mine is still not even admitting a problem, I can't tell by his behavior, because he has been carrying secrets since I met him, and that won't change until he deals with himself. So I have it in my head that when I see him again in a couple weeks, I want to check over his whole apartment and car to see if I find anything, but I guess I shouldn't. I probably won't have time anyway, so I will just see what happens. It truly is a sickness. Because I get horribly sick to my stomach while I am checking, I am so afraid I will find something, but then I want to find something, because then I will feel I have the proof necessary to say "get help or get gone". I think eventually I will say that anyway, just for the fact that his whole "soul" is sick, even without the using, and that is not a healthy kind of thing for me to be around. I just want the proof so I can push it forward and maybe get him to realize it is a problem, instead of having to wait for the right time to bring it up. Do you think they know there is a problem, even without the cold evidence waved in front of their face, or do you think they can be so far in denial that they truly don't know?

Also, I am finding some incredible anger. Lots and lots of it. Don't know quite what to do with it, I doubt if screaming "your a nasty fu**ing pervert" probably will help anything between us, so right now I just hold it in, or if I am alone, just go around the house cussing to myself. or singing (I've been making up my own version of the 12 days of Christmas) On the 1st day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, a fu**ing nasty STD. On the 2nd day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, 2 days of heartburn and a fu**ing nasty STD. I won't kill anyone with any more of that. Anger can be a nasty thing, but at least no one is bleeding.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14912 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
shenpa1
♀ Member
Member # 11710
Default  Posted: 1:46 AM, December 8th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA, I jsut read your profile and your H sounds very much like mine. I have never doubted the fact that H loves me. He has raised 2 children from a previous marriage as if they were his. We have a 13 year old son together and most people are suprised to learn that H is not the biological father of our 2 older children. His love for them is no different from the love he gives to our 13 year old son.

My H is charming and well liked. People actually, seemed charmed by him as well.

He has been a good father and a good husband. Like your H, he gets physically sick when I'm not around. 2 years ago when my daughter graduated from college I decided to spend a week with her before the rest of the family arrived. My H actually landed in the hospital from undetermined causes and missed the graduation. When ever I leave home for more than a few days H actually gets physically ill. We have talked enough to know that this all revolves around his abandonment issues. It still is really very sad to me.

Regarding the anger and resentment issues.........it's only recently that I have been able to let go of them. The more I learn about SA the more I understand that none of my H's behavior was intentionally directed at me.
In my heart I know that H adores and loves me. In my heart I also know that he has this very complicated and complex sexual addiction that he has struggled with his entire life.

There are times when I let my painful emotions subside and look deeply at my H and what I see is a man that wants the same thing as me. A man that struggles, a man that doesn't want to be judged by his past actions, a man that is trying his best to change, a man that wants to be a good husband and father, a man that wants nothing more than to be loved by me. To be free of his suffering and to be loved. That's all he wants and what he wants is nothing different than me. Isn't that pretty much all we want? To be free of our suffering and to be loved?

With understanding and compassion it's possible. I know it's possible because I get glimpses of it all the time!


Me BS-49
H- WH-46
D-day #1 05/05 H Admits to PA #1
D-day #2 10/06 PA#2,3,4,&5 (ouch!)
Children: 3
Married 12 years



Posts: 396 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: CA
Newtwood
♀ Member
Member # 21154
Default  Posted: 2:54 AM, December 8th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone. I'm not fooling myself at all by his abstinence from the online crap. He is not recovered nor is he recovering-the only covering he's doing is covering it over-like putting concealer on a pimple; you know it's still there. I can't make him get help. I have to help myself. If my IC works out and she is helpful and thinks he can be worked on; I'll suggest it to him but I can't pull him into the office.

I had some strange thoughts come into my mind this morning though. I think this is the moment you think to yourself 'You really have gone insane haven't you?' Has anyones spouse taken up with the person they met online after paying the site for her services like mine did? I was thinking about it from a legal standpoint. Any lawyers here? Could you sue the site? The person (OW)?

I asked WH this morning and of course he "doesn't remember" what site it was-(of course you don't, you talked to her online for a year before getting into her physically but you don't remember where you found her...).

I was thinking it may have been AFF because they have the meet locals section but it could just as well be a million others.

It would be nice if you COULD sue though! Hit the bitch where it might actually really hurt-the wallet! Just daydreaming again. What charges could I use-emotional damage/wear and tear, possible PTSD for life, costs of doctors/therapists, STD testing (twice!) ADs/alcohol, lack of sleep, costs for meals thrown up, Kleenex, Prilosec (crying gets my esophagus spasms going)...I could think of millions more but I'm depressing myself now. Just ravings of the lunatic over here.


Faithful Wife of 24+ yrs: Me
WS: Him
OW(s): AFF Skanks/GRANDMOTHERS!!!

Status: Struggling Everday to
Survive

what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: North Carolina
OurLifeBack
♀ Member
Member # 10620
Default  Posted: 5:22 AM, December 8th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Update on the not checking: SUCCESS! But boy, is it hard!

What I am finding is that when I trigger, I want to check.

I also sent him a link for online resources and I really would like to see if he has opened it.

One would think I could just ask!

Geez -- it that codependant behaviour or what????

Naive - you mentioned anger. I am so very ready for that to just go away! It is a horrid feeling. I did not grow up in a screaming and yelling home, so it is difficult to know just how to deal with this. I did go out and walk yesterday and then just cried. I did talk to my husband about it -- what had set me off as well as how I was so ready for it to be gone. It seems that sometimes, the smallest things will really get me going.

BTW - Mr. OLB (This FWH stuff is just not appropriate for these SA types is it???) did read the last chapter in "Mending a Shattered Heart" and last night told me the one thing I had done good for our marriage last week was the letter I wrote him!

Of course, he is very good at saying the right things. We'll see if there is action to follow it up!

Have a great day, everyone....


Me: BS 50 Him: WS 46 Married 15 years / Together 19
DDay: 4/28/06 & many more after that -- there are still a lot of blanks & I dread the telling
01/28/08 - renewed EA with OW. SA confirmed. Taking a time out.
06/13/08 - discovered EA with OW#2.

Posts: 1141 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Florida / Chicago - Whatever!
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:09 AM, December 8th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shenpa1 - thanks. I know I need to keep focused, he is ill, he doesn't want to hurt me, he does love me, it is just an illness that he is incredibly embarrassed and ashamed of.

And that is one reason I am having a hard time with this anger. Anger is not a comfortable feeling for me. I am working with my IC on how to release it in a healthy way, because for years, I just ate it away. And that was just normal, every day stuff, this is HUGE! I am trying to dilute it a bit with humor. Laughing helps get some of the extreme feelings out of my system and it is more fun than being angry! Reasoning it out does help, and there are times I have had tremendous compassion for him, but right now, I just keep thinking, what the he** was he doing? Wasn't he even thinking he could give me an STD or even kill me? Just for a quick "high". And I am also angry about all the lies. He has lied to me from day one. He lied about how many times he was married (he told me he was afraid I would leave him when I found out what a loser he is). And he lied about sex--because when I would ask why he was never interested, it was always, I'm tired and too stressed, I don't feel close to you right now, I can't relax, my hernia hurts--a million and one excuses, but not the truth--I can't get it up unless I am doing the porn thing. I wish he had been upfront with me about everything and given me the adult choice of whether I wanted to deal with this or not. Instead, he lied to me and pretended to be someone he wasn't, and now we are married and my kids adore him.

It might be harder in my case also, because I don't see him every day, so I can't feel bad for him, because when I am around him, I can see him better for what he truly is, a broken human being who is trying his best. This distance stuff is a killer, and my IC said it brings out the worst in everyone, and we are having major problems from it.

It was interesting hearing about your SA's abandonment issues, I also think my WS doesn't like being alone, because he has nothing to distract him from himself. And I don't think he likes thinking about himself because it is painful, and that is probably why he acted out so badly. I know this in my head, just can't deal with it in my heart right now.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14912 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, December 8th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I. If your primary motivation to recover stems from the desires of others...
You will fail in your recovery. External motivation is simply not capable of producing the necessary emotional stimulation that is required to overcome the intensity of a compulsive urge over extended periods of time. The single exception to this rule is when, in the course of recovery, you somehow connect to your own personal reasons for wanting to change...but this is rare. If you are currently engaging in a recovery process for the sake of others, expect to fail. Go through the motions if you must, but somewhere down the road, unless core changes are made within your life, expect addiction to remain a part of your life for a long, long time.

Sooo true. I might have to frame that. That's why I'm done trying to make my partner go do places. If he really wanted to, he'd do it. I'm not going to drag him to a counselor unless we're there to debate whether or not the counselor thinks our relationship can make it or if I want a disclosure.

I am in Vegas now. I do think his acting out will most likely increase esp. if he's stressd. I think it would be esp. bad if I have another miscarriage.
A while back I told him to not to go to Hooters
Well, now Hooters seems extremely tame.

OLB-I hope he reads the resources,too. I wouldn't even bother with mine.


I think I'm reaching the ambivalence stage.

NA-I journal to release my anger. That usually helps, but I still explode sometimes. I'll continue doing the anger exercises from Codependent No More whenI get back home. Exercise helps me, and I'm even thinking about joining kickboxing if I ever get the money. Getting a massage also help me release some steam. Thank god for the Swedish massage!!!


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 9:50 AM, December 8th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes! I have discovered that as a codependent, I can be addicted to the victim status. I still have times where I fantasize about finding out about his A in a different scenario.

YES to being a victim. The truth is in my life I have been a victim repeatedly, and I don't know how to stop. I don't want to be a victim forever.

NA said: "But unfortunately, sexually, he is pretty much always stuck in adolescence."

Hmmm...I would definitely say my partner is a selfish lover. Sex has to be what he wants to do, when he wants it, mostly about his pleasure, foreplay if I'm lucky. I don't need the big production, but I'd like us to have more intimacy.

( I'll be honest and admit I need help with the intimacy thing,too!!! )

I think my partner prefers the impersonal sex that always has the I-just-met-you high. He goes to other places instead of trying to spice it up inside our relationship.

I suppose after many years of impersonal sexual encounters, he can't just stop.

Early this year I felt like he had started masturbating on me. Maybe it was always and still is that way.

I think mine may be afraid to be alone. He put up with a drug addict for 3 whole years thru everything.

[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 10:11 AM, December 8th (Monday)]


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
OurLifeBack
♀ Member
Member # 10620
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, December 8th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just have to tell all of you that I just finished cleaning off my old lap top to give to our daughter and wanted to copy a lot of stuff I had written - emails and such. I try very hard not to revisit all this old stuff, but do think that I still need to hold on to it 'just in case'...AND I have written that damn letter SEVERAL times!

It also made me sad.

I am going to point it out to him - unemotionally. We have got to get out of this cycle!!!

Each time he takes baby steps -- which is better than taking no steps at all....

Ok - I'm better. Thanks.


Me: BS 50 Him: WS 46 Married 15 years / Together 19
DDay: 4/28/06 & many more after that -- there are still a lot of blanks & I dread the telling
01/28/08 - renewed EA with OW. SA confirmed. Taking a time out.
06/13/08 - discovered EA with OW#2.

Posts: 1141 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Florida / Chicago - Whatever!
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 10:41 AM, December 8th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, after my H dropped a bombshell on me Sat night that he actually had sex with 2 women on the same night the last time so the count went up to 4 women, I found his work cell phone to discover that he has not kept NC at all. He never stopped with the latest online OW. So I'm not sorry that I checked it out. I just can't trust him. He isn't using any of his emails at all so he's either talking to her on msn or using another email acct.

So I don't know where to go from here. I just can't keep doing this.

I really only want to love him. It's so simple. I just want us to be happy. But then all the rest of the crap gets in the way.

Last night he asked if I wanted to talk and I said how confused I was. He didn't say anything for awhile so I asked what he was thinking and he said he was wondering what we were going to be doing tomorrow night. So yeah. I just don't know anymore. I did expect for there to be some mistakes and for him to mess up. But he's not being honest. I can't stand the lying. I feel like we're never going to make it at this point.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

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