Thanks my friends for watching out for me. sometimes you feel so alone.
I totally understand what you are saying. Shirley phrased it so aptly: all the players are there.
I guess I have become a bit brutal, but does your H really need to make frequent calls? As for visiting, I think its best you visit with him. If anything, being so sick, it might have made this woman revisit her life...and maybe, just maybe, this might give her an opportunity to apologise. But we are with you on this:
"All poison must be kept out!"
Shirley, you are doing well.
It does take a special kind of strength dealing with an innocent OC. You are amazing.
Had IC today after a months break.
This is her take, and it got me thinking.
The better I was doing (work, home etc), the lower H started to slip.
He "needs" me to be down and out, to be empty and feeling worthless and stressed, so that he can be the good, strong guy. When I am doing well and flying high, he starts poking holes and keeps on till I cant take it anymore and crash. The harder I fight it, the dirtier he gets.
I end up one of 2 ways, which is ok with him. Either I fight dirty back, or I crash and burn.For the last year, i have been fighting dirty.I still crash a bit but bounce back. This time however, the accumulation of so many things going wrong,gave me no chance. I am burning out.
I want calm and stability and I want to move forward.. When we get that, he cant handle it. He needs extremities, and drama and action.I provide that for him when I react. And then he gets to be the good guy.
And then I beat myself up (after he does)and here I am...peeking into the darkness again.
She doesnt think he does this deliberately. She thinks maybe he does this to stop himself from dealing with his "old" issues. And now matter how much dont react, he knows me so well, he will always find a weak spot (and I have loads).
She says I cant carry on like this. She is afraid that it would be too much for me oneday and I will just up and quit. I am afraid too. She wants me to seriously think aboout what I want, and whether he can give that to me. Consistently.
Or would we spend the rest of our loves stuck on ths ferris wheel?
I told her I just cant fight anymore. I cant.
And the the thing is, is that he thinks its all me. Its all in my head, I am a drama queen who doesnt want to let go of the past; that he is not cheating but I want to punish him for th rest of his life by acting like this. HE wants me to sort myself out in IC, so that we can build a life.
He does not want to look at himself. Just me and my issues. Cos thats where all the problems are at. When you have been hearing this for so long (most of my childhood and adulthood)tell me, how can you believe other wise? HOW?
She says she is going to help me. But what would be the point if he is going to always bring me down again?
I honestly wonder if I am such a crazy, loony mad person, what is he doing here then? Is it so that he can make himself look/feel better?
Sorry for being such a downer, tribe.
I am trying.
He "needs" me to be down and out, to be empty and feeling worthless and stressed, so that he can be the good, strong guy. When I am doing well and flying high, he starts poking holes and keeps on till I cant take it anymore and crash.
I agree with her and I am not even there!!! You will be posting here sounding so strong and doing so well and then he will do something to sabotage you and send you reeling. I can't stop thinking about his behavior before your trip. That was clearly designed to send you over the edge. HE needs to find out why he does this, why he NEEDS you to be down. I am going to guess that he helps his self-esteem to feel as if he is "saving" you. If he doesn't have anyone to "take care of", then he feels worthless. These are deep self-esteem issues that I am sure go back into childhood. If he isn't willing to sort them out, you are in danger of being subjected to this behavior for a very long time. Hon, you don't want that and we don't want that for you. Look out for yourself (and your little ones). Do what you need to do to protect your mental well-being.
FNF, I would suggest that if your H wants to visit her in hospital that you go too. You can wait for him in the cafeteria or a lounge area while he goes to see her. Then you will know if OW is stupid enough to engineer a “fancy seeing you here” meeting.
But if you have made your feelings plain to your H, then he should do no more than make courteous enquiries through a third person as to her welfare. She should not be a problem to you. And you are not being heartless. If I’m honest, I’d struggle with it too. You owe her nothing. And that’s what it comes down to, I guess.
LostH –If you can’t fight, then don’t. Find that person you want to be and play it out until it’s real. Please just try to breathe deep, take stock and move away. Your IC is probably right, he is pushing his issues onto you and wanting you to take the blame. Don’t take it. No fuss, just hand it right on back. And move away. Being a drama queen only works when it has the effect the DQ wants. Otherwise it’s wasted energy. If it carries on with the S thoughts, maybe you should take another visit to your doctor. That does worry me. And please try to see someone from the CAB, they have pretty friendly opening times and there will be one very close to you. Someone will have seen the very same scenario you want to discuss and they will help you get another Plan to put in your Plans Folder! Wouldn’t that make you feel a little more confident all round, just knowing where you stand in this country? He doesn’t have to know you’ve been, in fact it’s preferable he doesn’t. Hugs hon. When do the kids go back, or have they already? We’ll make for a meet before half term – yes? (((((LostH)))))
Hi Hurt789. I’m one of the “lesser” sufferers, if there is such a thing, as my H’s affair was “only” five years. But with old GF/fiancée, which threw me right down there in the worthless pit b/c it turns out that she was a ghost for years before he linked up with her again. So, yes, another marriage that was a lie. But, you’ll get support, friendship and advice in bucketloads. I agree with FNF about the degree of selfishness and you have the added grief of betrayal for the whole family. As far as your FWH goes, sounds like so far so good. Expect your setbacks and steps forward. It can be very confusing at times and the range of emotions will engulf you. There is light at the end of the tunnel and there are those here who have made the long journey showing the rest of us that it can be done. Welcome.
Hey 25W!! Of course we understand.
For us, it's more like an ex-wife than some slut—
My inner two year old is constantly wanting to lie on the floor, kick her feet and yell "NO FAIR"
“Normal is good.” Hmm. I still can’t take “normal” cos I don’t know what it is or what I want it to be! Normal is what he was trying to get away from, and yet whenever I’ve suggested we live separately so that we can do dates and arrange times to be together he is adamant that this is what he wants. But at the time, he sure as heck didn’t. Confused? Yup.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:55 PM, September 8th (Monday)]
If you've been around, look at the 180 list. You need to do this to maintain YOUR sanity. Of course you can't believe a word he says. And really, let him stew or whatever, while you take care of yourself.
#1 I'd go to see a lawyer to get my ducks in a row, even if you don't want a divorce, you need the advice in case you're not given a choice.
#2 I'd rally as many friends and relatives around me as I could and spill the whole freaking mess. I've kept quiet all this time and I think telling someone trusted that can tell you what your H is doing or thinking can be a real benefit.
#3 I'd start stashing away money for an escape. Is the house he used in both your names? Pick the one you love and Start looking for a realtor for the other. I think when they've gone and done this all the while in MC and after seeing what the LTA did to you when you found out, then they deserve nothing from the marriage. NOTHING. Gather your evidence and put it away safely.
NOW, if you don't want to do any of the above, I understand. I don't know if after 2 years of IC I would EVER think about being with him again in light of your revelations, but I never thought I'd be here after the revelation I got.
But you do need to protect yourself financially and emotionally. Get a good IC. Get yourself a money stash and start a plan. Sometimes it does take seeing you getting ready to walk to make them wake up fully to what they're about to lose.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Sometimes it does take seeing you getting ready to walk to make them wake up fully to what they're about to lose.
What weepy said--her whole post.
If he's just in the marriage for the security, you have to decide why you want to be in the marriage. People stay together for many reasons after an A--but most BS want more from the relationship than just security. Sounds like he needs some IC for just himself--and maybe you could too, to hash out what this all means to you and how to proceed.
Protect yourself, and be ready for a continued roller coaster, no matter what you choose. To me, LTA's do mean the WS gave of himself to and cared for someone outside the M, someone he should not have given his emotional life to--and that has ramifications for reconciliation. And makes it that much harder.
I saw on another of your posts that this d-day was exposed by the OW, to help her leave your WS. Another blow to your self-esteem, as if the "I love you but am not in love with you" wasn't bad enough. Think of what YOU need--you deserve that.
And get those ducks in a row.
I think he has a separate account. Not sure how to find that out. I cant even look at the phone bill or credit card b/c they dont come to the house. I found out he has a PO Box too. I am so upset. And, yes the OW spilled the beans on the affair. I think she was fed up too with him lying to her. He says its over but I surely dont believe him. He is a coward. I dont even know him anymore. He is not the same man I thought he was. Good husband, wonderful father, good provider. I have been totally blindsided again. I am going to IC to starting thursday. I am so lost and I thank you for your support.
I think he really loves this other woman, but loves the security that I give him.
He will have to reveal all his finances to his atty, warn him that if he doesn’t, he could face charges. Menawhile, stash some cash with a friend as an emergency fund, if you feel you need one.
Keep to the 180, right now it’s the best thing you can do. He’s been pushed off the fence and lies in his own mess. He’s probably not sure what to do, but I would be very wary of any advice he may be getting from his divorced “friend”…..
Gotta run. Hugs tribe.
We are back home, a little weary and stressed but all in one piece and finally with full power and internet. I will try to go back and read, but in the meantime just wanted to say hi and send best wishes to all, including the newcomers.
I am so relieved that you and your family are safe. That must have been so tough.Thank you for thinking of us and checking in.
computer was an the fritz and then my brain was on the fritz, so I am trying to catch up with all the posts!
Finally went to MC today after several difficult weeks. I think it helped. We talked about a lot, including sex. The only solution we came up with was for now to schedule time to be alone together. So I think we are going to do that and kind of go from there. That was probably 75% of the session.
The end was about me. They (both counselors) think I should tell someone and are amazed that I have gotten through this far without any irl support. They think it is making my stress immensely higher and that I could take some of the 'air out of the balloon' by just making it public knowledge, at least to a few friends. They think it is too much for me to handle alone and H counselor even said, don't' you just want to have someone to talk to who you can say "Can you believe what I fucking jerk I married? He is such a freaking idiot!". It's true, I can see that. But the pity that I would get and the uncomfortableness are really stopping me. They think it's uncomfortable b/c I am uncomfortable and that soon that tension would lesson and it could just be more like "Look, we're no perfect. He had an affair and we are working our asses off to save the marriage and can use all the support we can get."
Any thoughts? Oh, and H agrees, although would very much prefer we not tell our parents which I agree with as well. way too many opinions there.
Also, there is a movie coming out, Fireproof, that is suppose to be amazing. Afriend previewed it. It's about a couple trying to keep form getting divorced, No affair stuff, just looked more like how the husband was trying to show his wife he loves her and he doesn't know how to do that so he has to learn. I'm going to ask H to go with me. It opens 9/26 I believe.
So I had a great day. We received a letter from one of our financial institutions indicating that one of their (now former) employees had SOLD our personal information (name, ss#, etc.!!! So I spent the better part of this afternoon putting fraud alerts into place, calling banks, brokerage companies, etc. We are going to have to change account numbers, passwords, everything. Do you think we get any compensation/apology for this? NOPE....just a big..."oops". I know this is common these days but it is a royal pain in the ass and I have visions of some Russian creating a new HurtShirley and buying houses and cars,etc.
Hey, wait, maybe I should do that...
I don't know what I'm asking here, maybe just to see if any of you can understand what I'm going through. I hate being so heartless but she represents the last piece of my H's LTA connection and I just want all of the pieces to disappear forever
I think your feelings are completely normal. Although you don't want her to suffer- she certainly has no place in your M. WH was forced to cut ties with a few "friends" of ours that knew of his A so I would feel exactly the same if he were to be around them- even for a minute.
Hurt789- I am saddened to welcome you here, but welcome. I am dealing with a LTA & double betrayal as well and it's just mind boggling. Keep posting- the ladies here are brilliant & we all seem to go through the same shit- like this one:
I want to call him to come home to from work be with me, but I can not fully understand why I need him to comfort me because he is the one that made me feel this way!!
I remember after our 2nd D-day, I told him he could sleep at our house in the guest room. He came home, we talked until like 2am and then I just felt so lonely going to bed by myself and wanted him there...but didn't. I think I sat there going back & forth in my head for like 30 minutes trying to figure out what to do. I read somewhere on SI the concept of during R- when times are tough you have to run TOWARDS each other instead of away. You have to have some angry distant times too I think but I always remind myself when I want to break away that I need to re-focus onto our M & WH.
Hi 25wimsey. I also admire your courage as I told WH if OW turned up preggo I would leave becuase I wasn't strong enough to deal with her & their child forever. ((HUGS))
I still struggle with the jealousy of his feelings that happen when you're with someone new--feelings that were kept alive for so long partly cuz she is the type of person to be able to elicit responses from him for so long--positive feelings that we all know occur in infidelity--constant validation, adoration, need, and lots of emotional expressions. I'm more the reserved type, not to mention that we've been together for over 30 years, and the mature love that comes with long term relationships just isn't the same
I go back & forth on this one too- it's very difficult to think about that excitment & fun they were having while we're dealing with their daily shit & every other life event....all the while lacking their respect & full attention because how much can be left?
Somehow, I attempt to hold onto the fact that my WH didn't seem to have a whole lot of "obsession, infatuation, etc" Ya, I'm sure he loved it & it was exciting but they didn't have alone "couple" time & it was pretty much quick sex while at work. I dunno- maybe I'm just trying to soften the blow for myself.
Sometimes I wish I could be comfortable with looking at their sex as if she was an ex-girlfriend of his. But there are just a few problems with that idea 1. WH hadn't been with anyone else 2. Sex with my last ex was 10 years ago, his 6 months ago 3. I didn't lie to him, or chose someone else over him to get sex
humiliatedagain- a sad welcome to you as well. we all obviously have HUGE trust issues with our W's but in your situation I can't imagine how you know which way is up...After believing everything was good and then having an even longer A to deal with...wow. ((HUGS)) & strength to you.
Welcome back BT. Glad everything is getting back together.
SoLost- I hope you decide to confide in someone so that you can have a release. We told lots of people....not without thinking really but I have no regrets thus far. Our direct family all knows, 2 of DH's co-workers as those are his good friends, my boss, 2 of my co-workers, another friend of mine....Pretty much everyone in our lives except 1 friend who I don't trust to not gossip all over town.
Sorry to hear about the rough day HS. Hopefully it can all be resolved as quickly as possible.
So...back to my kinky sex discussion.
I guess my thought was....does interest/enjoyment from kinky sex have some aspect of dis-respect to it? Okay...this is TMI here- I don't mind kinky sex & it does sometimes give me that "bad girl" feeling which can be a good thing....but is even that a bad thing? Do you think there is underlying "issues" to that? Underlying issues of WH has that power/control/dominating interest. We're not doing anytying extreme with kinky sex...I guess it's pretty mild but it just made me wonder.
WH & I had a huge blowup last Friday. He seemed to think I was being a bitch & giving him an attitude and I didn't feel like I was at all. I was confused about what he was saying but I didn't see it as anything more. So...I think the recurring theme here with him is that he feels as if he never does anything right/ nothing is ever good enough. I always feel shitty about this issue and wonder if it IS me....but thanks to our MC I think it certainly is HIM.
MC last week was all about WHY he's dragged his heals for 6 months about IC. WH does all the typical, I don't know...it just seems like a huge project to start....to change my schedule, get the kids out of the house, pay the money, blah blah blah...and MC said, well- I can see those reasons for something simple that you procrastinate on...but not something when your BS says if you don't don't do it you will lose your family. HELLO!? So...MC asked him if it was such a stressor to think about going to IC...he asked him to think about what it would be like without me & the kids. We sat in silence for like 5 mins as WH cried & attempted to compose himself. So...we processed the issue some more & WH has made a few phone calls to find an IC.
It is hurtful to hear the "I'll do anything I need to to keep you and our M" BUT, 6 months down the road...I haven't done the ONE thing that my BS specifically asked me to do. I even specifically told him that he would be proving his commitment to the M by how he handled himself...and here we are 6 months out. AGH
[This message edited by Whatnow28 at 8:35 PM, September 9th (Tuesday)]
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".