Saw Fireproof this weekend. H said afterwards that he totally didn't think he would like it but that he thought it was a great movie. Then the next morning we were driving to the apple orchards to pick and he took my hand and squeezed it and said yeah, that was a good pick on the movie last night.
All great, right. Except I think that is where it will end. I don't think he even realizes how much it applied to us. DON"T READ IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE MOVIE. One moment hit me when the guy got rid of his computer and put roses in it's place and a note that said I love you more. I'm pretty sure my H doesn't love me more than the computer. And she called hm out on looking at porn on the computer and said that's who you are when no one is around, that's your character, that's what you resort back to. Did you erase the history so no one knows where you have been. That struck home too. My H doesn't look at it a lot, but enough to upset me when we have such a poor sex life.
And the main thing was how little effort I realize he put sin to this relationship. I told him at the get go he needed MC, STD testing ad get rid of her. So he did those three things and that was it. I have planned every date or night out that we have had. I complain about us not spending time together, he doesn't go out of his way to do that, he does it b/c he has to. I can't put that effort in anymore. It hurts too much to be the one who loves more.
I am just feeling so "vulnerable" and "weak". And I just dont want any kind of change right not. I want to be on solid feet again, and I know I am not yet. So this just sucks. I am not ready to be in charge yet. I told him I need more time.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 10:33 AM, October 6th (Monday)]
OKay- Did everyone else's WH's LTA start with EA? WH started with both OW through sex alone. That's what seems strange to me- No lovey dovey conversations to swoon the other person....just an offering of sex that never ended and then OW#2 became like a best friend really.
hi guys, I am a few days behind, but this caught my eye. From what I have been told by WH - It stated w/ flirting - we were all friends and would get togather everyweekend. He says it was things she would say to him when I and her H wasnt around. Then my WH kissed her one day while I was off working my 2nd job and her H was somewhere else in the house. It was just so long ago, I dont remember how close of friends even we were as couples, a few years later we both had kids and thats when I started to notice thier "friendship". I have been told now that they use to talk all the time. My WH would call her from work or from home during the day (she didnt work and my WH worked nights). He says it was all for just sex, but I will never belive him on that!! I know she thought it was love, because when I found out, she left her H and was waiting for my WH to come and get her. When he didnt, she went back home.
We had a little bit of a talk Sunday am on why he treated me the way he did. This had come up before, and I pretty much got the same reply. He was afraid of me finding out, he would yell at me to shut me up. He would get mad if I was asking to many questions cause he didnt want his fun to end if I found out. I asked his why he chose to me like that,,why not show me extra love and attention, then I would have never questioned anything. He said he didnt think of that. He also felt that no matter how he treated me, I would never leave him. But he was afraid that if he was too loving towards me, the OW would find out and she would leave. She was always pissed when my WH would take me out or buy me something. He said it was easier to just stop doing stuff with me, cause I would still be there and she wouldnt give him any grief. This happened alot, cause he admitted the two of them would rarly fight about anything. It was usually her bringing up leaving me and he would say no and leave. At least that is what I am being told. He admits now that he knows what he had with her wasnt real, it was just all a game, that he thought he was really good at. He doesnt want to, still, talk about the hurtful things he said to me in the past. I am going to make a journal of them and show him at some point. The worst he can do is get mad...so what!!
SO LOST -
It hurts too much to be the one who loves more.
We actually had a great family night togather
Thats fantastic, Hurt. Those moments are just so much more precious and healing now, arent they?
I am glad that your family, but more so you, got to experience that,as it will provide you with fortitude (right word?? )when the rollercoaster takes a dip.
Thanks for this!
How are you doing today? Did you and your H get to talk more about his work schedule? I am sorry you are fighting about this. I wish I could be of more help. I hate it when my WH leaves for work every morning. If I could keep him locked up at home while I was working, I would. That is the hardest thing for me to deal with too. Let me know how you are doing.
This is new. I would have valiently strived to make dinner, clean up something... well, they're lucky I brought in the mail. Have to work tomorrow since Im the only one in the office.
Hope everyone has something healing happen tonight.
Fnf: You're going to have to tell me more about this encounter and how the hell you ever got him to it.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
when a woman feels unloved she lashes out and the man feels disrespected and when he feels disrespected he lashes out by being unloving. This cycle gets replayed over and over and relationships suffer as a result.
That makes alot of sense. In my case, I believe that is why my WH A lasted, (she thought he was the most wonderful person in the world :respect:, and I was always sad or upset with him :unloved:), but not why it started. I would love to hear more from your next sessions!! Thanks
Fnf: You're going to have to tell me more about this encounter and how the hell you ever got him to it.
This struck a chord with me because immmediately after d-day my H's initial answer to me when I asked him WHY was that I never respected him. And, no surprise, I can absolutely say that I never felt loved by him.
oops hit the wrong button!
FNF - I can't get into the details at this moment of the intense discussions we have been having but I know this was the case. I didn't feel loved as he had already moved on to fucking other women before we were married and I think (now) that I sensed a distance in him. He didn't feel respected because I was more successful than he was. I want to hear much, much more. Thank you for sharing.
How is your sister doing? Has she learned any more about her condition?
So, after my IC last week (the first one after I found my diaries from college and we discussed) I had an amazing realization. My H and I started our relationship under the same limerance and fantasy as all affairs. Yes, neither of us were married but we were safely ensconced in an Ivy League college with all room and meals provided. The social scene was easy. Everything was easy. This WAS the foundation of our "relationship". . Then we did a long distance thing were I was in NY doing the whole investment banking crazy working like a nut making tons of money thing and he was up in the middle of another country sort of working, sort of traveling and completely partying and and fucking other women. Soooooo, you can imagine when we reunited after this separation and got MARRIED that there might be some "stress". Well, just to complicate matters we didn't have to face it right away because we went to live overseas on a ridiculously lavish corporate deal that invovled little work and a lot of fun in paradise. So now YEARS later, we come back to the states and start trying to build a life together.
Except, we haven't ever lived together in reality, we are from "different sides of the tracks", he has already been fucking around so the treatment of me is not good and I am not putting up with it and telling him what a piece of shit he is. Hmmmmm, wonder what went wrong?
So, I have asked him to think about why he "liked" me in college, why he thought he might want to marry me, why he was wrong and what about me both he loves and what he hates. I plan on doing the same. I would give it a 50/50 chance that if we are completely honest with each other that we spent the better part of 25 years trying to make a college love affair work. The other 50% was that there was always something there that never had a chance to grow.
In addition, we have decided to look at this as honestly as possible WITHOUT thinking about the kids. AFTER, we decide what we think, then we decide the best course given that there are three wonderful girls involved. I want the relationship to be honest at the core. Either we can build something or we can't. After that, do we decide to stay together for the kids and end up in a friendly marriage.
Sorry for the long post. Have been reading and not posting as this has taken a lot of my mental and IRL time. I will keep all posted on our progress but I feel that this is progress. We are finally admitting that our great "love affair" began just the same as all other affairs.
[This message edited by hurtshirley at 6:39 PM, October 6th (Monday)]
See I still have the H who won't look at reality. Who has boxed this into "I cheated" and that's it. There's no nuance, no more "revelations". I mean the other day he didn't even acknowledge that I said something about DDay. Just ignored me. I picture him mentally putting his fingers in his ears and singing "lalalalala, I can't hear you."
My H and I started our relationship under the same limerance and fantasy as all affairs. Yes, neither of us were married but we were safely ensconced in an Ivy League college with all room and meals provided. The social scene was easy. Everything was easy. This WAS the foundation of our "relationship".
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:03 AM, October 7th (Tuesday)]
I will keep all posted on our progress but I feel that this is progress
Yay Shirley and Mr Shirley!!!
I hope you are looking after YOU. The rest of the family can handle themselves just fine.
I can't put that effort in anymore
I hear you.
And now I want you to hear me.
No, you wont put that effort into your M. Its his turn now to woo and keep you.
What you WILL do, is put that effort into yourself.
And I am not talking about manicures and massages etc..although pampering ourselves does help.
I dont know what you need to do for you, because I am sure each person is different. For me, it was getting a job, about getting out in the real world, and realising that I do have worth outside of the bed and the kitchen. Its a work in progress admitedly, but like my IC reminded me last night, I am not the same person I was last year.
So your challenge is to find out what you need to do for you.
And part of your H's challenge, IMHO, is to find ways to make you feel what it is you need to feel (loved, sexy, wanted, worthy etc).
We are with you, SoLost.
I am ok'ish. Ic helped me put some things in perspective last night.
I hate it when my WH leaves for work every morning.
From my IC session last night, the reason I am reacting so strongly to this development with H's work, has to do with the many fears that it has raised.
I have managed without H for most of the M. Like my IC said, he has never really been there for me or the kids, he has never been a responsible H or F, let alone an active one...and I managed. No matter which continent he took us to, no matter how many kids or the state of my health, or having no support..I MANAGED.
After dday, my world collapsed. And I truly fell into zillions of little pieces.I have been working on putting Humpty Dumpty back together again ever since, and having H finally becoming a part of the family, and taking on duties and responsibilities that were rightfully his in the first place, had allowed me to focus on me.He has become an integral part of the family, and it is huge relief having him around since I started work.
BUT my fears I think now is that either, I will find that I cant manage without him anymore , OR, that I can.
And the implications then of either one.
Another fear, was that he could so easily agree to this new arrangement..and the possible implications that has: he doesnt really love us/me; he doesnt really want to be with us/me; he misses his old life and wants the best of both; that he is still the ultimate selfish bastard he always was.
Would any of you readily agree to leave your family for a few nights a week after nearly losing them?
I seriously doubt it.
He had promised me after dday#1 to look for a job closer to home. He kept delaying that, and then finally when work allowed him to start working from home,said that since he was hardly away anymore, that this was in fact an ideal arrangement for all of us. And it was.
But not anymore.
I told him I cant and wont tell him what to do. He has to make his own mind up and take responsibility for that decision. He is well aware of the consequences this will have on our family.
And LH, i need to hank you. You always seem to know what to say to make things clearer for me. I am going to focus on me. For me, I think that is exercise and losing weight and feeling good about myself. Taking the time to invest in myself FOR myself. I pray he can woo me and do what he needs to do but I an no longer count on it. Once I get myself together and feeling better, then I will figure out where to go from there. This is for me. I have worked out the past two days and eaten better. already lost 2 lbs which is water weight I'm sure, but a good motivating start for me. Anyway, thanks for always listening to all of us. You have no idea what a difference it makes to know I am heard.
And LH, i need to hank you
I dont know what to say...
"Errr, this is just so sudden. I didnt know you felt that way. "
"Hank? You dont even know the meaning of hank!Bring it on sister!!!
Ok, I'll shaddup now.
SoLost, you are most welcome. Glad I could help.
I wanted my WH to write this!
Whatnow, I would either look for a new MC more versed into long term betrayal, or think about both going into IC for awhile.JIMHO
Thanks LH. I want to start IC sometime- no big hurry I guess and WH had session #2 of IC this week.
We had MC today and went into it wondering if we are wasting our time & money with this guy. He did the usual, "How was your week?" But amazingly- it always ends up bringing up an issue that we discuss. Today were sharing a conversation with MC that WH & I had last night about "how" WH could live with the guilt, manipulation, lies, etc. etc. day to day. It turned into MC bringing up how WH seemed (even in session) emotionally distant- body language too- his arms were crossed in front of him as I was weeping. WH admits he cannot fully put himself into my shoes to feel what I'm going through....and MC talked about how WH has learned to be emotionally distant as a survival mechanism. So....anyways, long story short- MC was productive today.
that EVERY single event/moment from before the M and during the whole M, is f-king tainted, and there is not a damn thing he can do to fix that
Hope UKG can return to us soon.
SoLost- thanks for sharing your thoughts on Fireproof. Hopefully your WH can "get" more of the movie as he thinks about it.
FNF- Sounds like the seminar was insightful. I talked to WH about the ideas a little last night. I would be interested in hearing more about it as you go. Thanks
HS- That's great that you've been able to make some progress! Thanks for checking in- Good news is wonderful to hear.
I have told him so many times over these last few years that if he had only come to me and shared with me his dissatifactions, his disappointments in our R, then maybe we could have worked on them together but instead he chose the coward's path because he feared letting me in to his inner self
I'm struggling here a bit with this ^^^ I guess I have some guilt because I read all around SI "If only he would have told me about his issues with the M, I would have done something." Well, I knew WH was VERY dissatisfied with our sex life and I did nothing. I would think about it, and stress about not feeling comfortable enough to often have sex with him, would request that we become more affectionate in hopes that would make me feel better, etc. but I knew this was a HUGE problem..... I even told WH numerous times that I was concerned he would have an A based on the lack of sex and of course, he denied that stating it would be "stupid". HA. I know we've all failed our own M's to some degree....but I'm feeling like maybe my faulty piece is bigger here. I know it doesn't make it right that he had an A as he had other options than that...but I'm just feeling shitty that I knew the problems, and did nothing.
On a side note: WH & I were talking last night and he jokingly said how many of the problems in his life stem from his sex drive. I really wonder if his A was almost sex based- they just didn't seem to ever have that lovey dovey anything, even after 2 years- 1 living in our house. She didn't flatter him with compliments, she never initiated anything....As hard as it is from me to think he screwed up his life this badly for sex alone....i'm not sure what else he got out of it. control..he has mentioned control.
LH- Sounds like you were able to see the work problem from with a clearer view after IC. Still a very difficult situation to be in.
SL- WTG on working on YOU!
I wanted to share an update from WH's IC. He came home last night after his session and seemed to be the happiest man on the planet. He called on his way home, talked about the session some, walked in & started playing with the kids, picked up the baby and just held & played with him. his mood was just stunning. I was standing there with a total confused look on my face. I'm so happy he's going though because he's talking about some deep stuff already. AND, he's making an effort to work on things. For instance, all weekend I was tearful and instead of his usual defensive mode or leaving me be to suffer- he would come in, offer support, offer a hug...he stated his frustration in that he didn't know what to do but he made EFFORT. Last night after the kids went to bed we were talking about A stuff and he was open to talking. He said in MC today he had to really think about and analyze the reactions he was having to me wanting to talk...and he had to really make himself be open to it.
Anyways...sorry so long again- I read along but don't usually have the time to post as I would like. I'm just glad to hear that WH seems to be "getting it" and is making effort to look at himself and make changes.
[This message edited by Whatnow28 at 8:44 PM, October 7th (Tuesday)]
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".