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User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I I I
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You think if ONE of them could actually face/say what they're feeling, thinking or be real any of this would have happened?

Seriously, that is the truth. I figured you'd been there and done that though. I think you are doing all you can, it's his turn to step up.

I have to admit, H will snuggle with them often when they are sick. Both will say please come sit with me. They just want us to sit there and hold their hand while they watch a kid show. lol. DS came in the middle of the night sick so we made a place in between us, with the 80 lb dog there as well. What a sight! But H happily made room and rubbed his back for him. He's great in situations where he knows what is expected. He will happily do it. Just that getting close, having intimacy with your partner that he can't seem to figure out.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Coo. Sounds like just what you need, a Tastefully Simple party, donít tax the brain, leave the emotions at home and go out and smile for a while. Hope it did you good. Waddidya buy? Beer bread? Sounds good, I bet if I Google it, Iíll find a recipe.

If your H knows how to be with comforting the kids, why canít he adapt the empathy and sympathy to you? Heís obviously ďgot itĒ, but maybe while he can be the mature grown up for the children, he canít for you b/c youíre already the primary grown up in the house. I think we just get so used to doing everything, we donít allow our spouses to step in occasionally.

Maybe Iím more of a winner in this case b/c my H just seems to be your original KISA and Iíve let him be one even though heís the one who dealt the blow and crushed me. I mused on this idea in IC some time ago. When he first met OW at school, she had moved into the area and had come from a private school or a convent. Whatever, she was not embraced by the rest of the peer group as she was perceived as posh and aloof. At the time, my H was dating another girl, until all three were in The Crucible. My H was a main character, John Proctor (who is unfaithful with a servant Ö.) OW made for him during that time, but he would have seen it as ďrescuingĒ, making her more welcome and introducing her to his friends. Interestingly, she has not kept in touch with the rest of the reunion lot either before or after the Friendsreunited site opened. I met H at college, shortly after a rather nasty rape incident. There were three within a month (me, a 17yr old and a míd woman of about 28) and he was never caught. H insisted on walking me back one night and did his KISA routine. It was very nice and he was very sweet and he made me feel good about the whole sex/intimacy thing. But, really, I DID NOT need rescuing. I was dealing with it. I was okay. Fast forward 2001, he meets her again, sheís very unhappy in her marriage and says her H is emotionally cold and distant and after the second meeting itís very clear sheís very unhappy and sad at how her life has turned out. So the white steed came out again. He even wrote about it (fingers down throat). Being a KISA makes him feel good. So then he had to do it again for me, this pathetic sobbing wreck needed rescuing. But now I know I donít need him. So when I return to my former able self, whatís in it for him?

Umm, what???? Is that all crap or is that the way he feels?

Heís just venting off SoL. Take no notice. Gone off into fantasy land where he can say what he likes and no one will condemn him. Heís back to being 14 again.

My GF looked at me while he was relating this story and I just shook my head no. She shook her head in pity.

It is very sad he feels he has to act this way, weepy. He must have such low self esteem that he has to make things up or try to get one over you to prove a point. Although I cannot fathom out why when it is so contradictory to what he is trying to portray; he just ends up looking dumb with people shaking their heads and/or walking away. Is there no way he can have a sensible conversation with you about anything? What if you just ignore him and refuse to rise to the bait? I know Iíve said that before, but you canít get criticised if you donít engage. When H was WH, I knew he was getting mad with me by my lack of response, but he couldnít say anything b/c it just made him look like the bad guy (well, he was, wasnít he?).

You think if ONE of them could actually face/say what they're feeling, thinking or be real any of this would have happened?

Unfortunately he did. He wrote it all down and he was horribly depressed and in a really black place. But he didnít tell me and he did nothing about it. Along comes fawning, sickly sweet OW and he is GONE. He chose to not share. He thought he was being weak and pathetic and unappreciative of what he had, so he had his esteem boosted by having an affair. But it could have destroyed what he had and thatís why he took so long to tell me. Iím very black and white with right and wrong and I had been very vocal about the Aís that were going on around us. His biggest fear was losing me and his family, and continuing the affair was putting off the day. But I still say he didnít have it that bad. There must have been times when the affair seemed the right thing to do and that he was very happy in it. Or even thinking that he could take off the shackles of this marriage with its responsibilities and have a sweet happily ever after honeysuckle round the cottage door with OW. Iím rambling now.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Knew Iíd find it: I call this his fantasy KISA poem
There is a green hill far away, with a white horse, a lover,
A pallet full of memories, a tree full of blossom, tranquillity,
A photograph full of holes, spaces before my eyes, and
Blurred edges, blue and gold, a goldfinch, a hummingbird,
Something small, delicate, the merest taste of tomorrow, a
Fledgling, a longdrawn breath, sadness waiting to happen,
All reflected in a mirror enveloped in your smoke, and you,

This is part of the verse he wrote the day after he crossed the line, just under four weeks after his first email to her. He then presented it to me as part of his continual ďwork in progressĒ and had inserted it at the end, implying it was for and about me. And some months later I found the dated notes. It made me feel sick. What an arrogant fuckwit.

Iím off to get dinner and clear this mess of a house. Have a good evening everyone.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whatnow Ė have you talked about those porn boundaries yet?

WH is well aware. After D-day we made it a "rule" after our MC also encouraged a NO to online porn (alone)- he said it would be fine for us together and I agreed. A few months after D-day when I found he had looked at porn one day while I was at work it was a HUGE blow up- "nothing has changed, you keep lying...." and he then stated he didn't think it was such a decisive NO and wanted my expectation to be stated clearly so....we talked about it more in MC and I told him NO- No online porn. last week when I found it....during our argument about it I said "What do you want me to do?" He said I have SO much control yet at the time we agreed no porn he asked that I do not look at craigslist without him present as well. (The casual encounters used to be quite humerous prior to D-day) So...I said what about that control? Isn't it even? I'm ramling again....but it's hard because he could be looking at it and I wouldn't know....but the goal is for him to respect my request and be honest about it. Over the past 10 years there have been times we had said no to porn before and then it would slowly return & get worse & worse. So...I'm setting my foot down this time. like I said, my biggest worry is that it will take away from us, it will continue to affect his view of sex as sex instead of "making love" with a spouse, and that the more he looks at online porn the more likely he would be to "stumble" into something else and possibly head down the slippery slope. Trying to keep all those options closed, yk?


As far as the comedy show: We went to walk in- our seats were on the floor & there were bleachers too. I told him "this is the part I'm nervous about" because she could have been sitting somewhere in the bleachers watching to see if we were coming. So...we got to our seats and I tried not to look around much. We didn't see her and had an okay time. After we were seated I remembered last year before the show started they told the audience they would be taking photos during the show so that if you were with someone you weren't supposed to be, you might want to leave. I reminded WH of this and was irritated thinking about how last year we thought the statement was SO funny.

There was also a joke about Clinton and Monica Lewinsky in the show and humor about A just isn't funny anymore.

Weepy- Sounds like a very up & down day.

And he said okay then, let it work. We can do this.

That must have been nice to hear. I would hope the statement about you bitching was the typical male macho thing. I hate that men always joke about their wives in a negative way. Hhmmm...maybe just immature men do that.

And like your H, he probably goes around telling everyone what a bitch I am and how he HAS to get home or I'll pitch a fit. It's about not taking responsibility for your own choices

Weepy- there are a lot of things that you post that remind me of WH such as this one ^^. The "friend" we had that went on to have the LTA with OW#1 used to call me when he & WH were out to ask if WH could stay out longer. It would piss me off so bad- WH said, I told them it wasn't that you wouldn't let me stay out, yet he was never man enough to say firmly he just wanted to leave so it was indirectly my fault. I'm sure I was seen as the bitchy wife...and they all knew we weren't having sex a lot so....I think everyone saw me as the nice little cooker/cleaner/mommy of the kids. I remember a time when WH was having his A with OW#1 and she along with other friends were going out drinking a lot at the time and kept asking WH to go. I was caring for our newborn & breastfeeding so it wasn't really an option for me to go. I continued to tell WH he could go although I wasn't overly impressed with the idea since I was always caring for the baby (maternity leave, he was working). Anyways...he never went but one day OW#1- the fucking whore that she is asked me soemthing like, "Are you guys the kind of couple that doesn't go out without the other?" She was implying that I was a controlling bitch yet she was already fucking my husband. AGH. I'm ranting everywhere....sorry guys.

I would do what you're going to do and H would have a fit that I was babying them, or risking getting sick myself

We've had a similar problem as well. WH's approach is just very strict & surprise, not overly emotional. It's truly amazing I couldn't "see" more of the problem prior to D-day.

Not gonna proof read so excuse the errors....hope it's understandable. Off to make cupcakes with DS.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know Iíve said that before, but you canít get criticised if you donít engage.

This what started the battle on Saturday. I wasn't responding to his "digs" and his reaction was "OK, I guess I'm invisible, you don't want to listen to me or talk to me, fine." Because I didn't want to "start" anything.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, October 20th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello tribe.
Is this a case of 'no news is good news'? I hope so. I've been away for a few days so just caught up on messages.
UKgirl, your posts are really thought-provoking. The KISA theory applies here also... the OW is a single mom who gave him the validation he somehow felt he wasn't getting at home. After being taken to a new city where I knew nobody and thinking we'd be there until his retirement I made friends, got a part-time job and tried to 'bloom where I was planted'. His long hours while at home and the travel his job required didn't leave me much choice, or so I thought. Trouble is that I'm just not as sure as you are that I don't need him as well as still want him. Returning to our former home city hasn't been the answer either. My health is worse here and his hours and travel are still part of the job. This is still a sore point and his choice of OW only makes it worse. WE are a year and a half past Dday and as his busy season approaches I dread knowing she'll be back at his workplace. He chose me yet I struggle with insecurity in our marriage. I need his reassurance without me asking for it. I don't think he truly understands and I don't know how to let him know in a way that won't cause a meltdown on my part. It feels so close... I don't know how he can put 3 yrs of betrayal behind him so easily when it's still so fresh for me.

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, October 20th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Lostsoul

Do you think its all still fresh for you, because you havent been able to effectively deal with it as a couple? I cant remember whther you are in MC or IC or not. But if your H hasnt changed much apart from stopping the A, then I can clearly see why you havent been able to move on.

Then you have the added stress of OW still being a part of your life, not because there is an OC,(which you cant do much about)but due to his job (which he does have control over)...no wonder you find the trauma so fresh.

Is there no way at all that he can change jobs? Is there any other solution which removes her from your lives, thus allowing you both to move forward?

Trouble is that I'm just not as sure as you are that I don't need him as well as still want him

Sorry, lostsoul, I didnt understand this.

You say he chose you, but really at the end of the day,what does this mean?
Cos I dont think its as noble as it sounds unless he is prepared to follow that with meaningful action.
There are a whole bunch of thoughts and actions that should follow that choice. It is not the end all but the beginning. And I think that where you have a WS who think that thats that (the A has ended), you will find a BS who is still stuck and traumatised.

((((lostsoul))))


***
Ukg, thanks for asking about the Simple thingy. I read that and went, "What what??"

***
(((((LTA TRIBE)))))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, October 20th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all. Nothing much new here.

Lostsuol- I agree with LH on this:

And I think that where you have a WS who think that thats that (the A has ended), you will find a BS who is still stuck and traumatised


WH had his IC today. I had met her last week and asked WH if she shared anything about our meeting. WH said she asked about my anger because she didn't see any expressed during our meeting. Interstingly enough, our MC waited for the anger to hit and even then I think felt it was short lived or minimal. This is really making me wonder....am I harboring a lot of anger? I don't really feel like I am- I feel hurt, confusion, a huge loss...but not so much anger I guess.

IC told WH she believes that he "intellectualizes" everything, MC said the same thing. LOL. Guess we know he needs to work on discovering and being open to his emotions.


I wrote him a long letter last night, it's not totally finished but I'm not sure I want to give it to him. I wanted it to be more positive and it ended talking a lot about some things I've been worried about....


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 9:56 PM, October 20th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whatnow,

IC told WH she believes that he "intellectualizes" everything, MC said the same thing. LOL. Guess we know he needs to work on discovering and being open to his emotions.

My H was in this same category, and really it is part of his base nature/personality to analyze things [he's an INTP type] Our MC told us that he has a blind spot on this and it is like "retraining" on a basic level. If your H is willing to do the hard work, there will be progress. But it is slow..... or at least from my perspective!

SoLost,

Thanks for asking how I am doing. I'm still sore- mainly my driver's door crushed into me and pushed me to the side- so my shoulder and neck still hurt even though it is a few weeks later. I'm still waiting on my referral to PT. But thanking my lucky stars that we had some metal in those doors of my old 99 Mercury!

Weepy,
Did you decide how to handle the latest "round" with your H? And does he ever apologize for hurting you, even if he can't see anything wrong with the way he behaves? I know you've got a lot of experience under your belt with this man, so I have confidence you will be able to ride this through. I am proud of you for concentrating more on yourself nowadays-Good for you!

LH- How are you feeling after YOUR accident?

(((TRIBE))) Reading the posts and sending good thoughts to you all.

Hugs,
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 6:10 AM, October 21st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi folks. I see it's been relatively quiet around here. I don't usually post unless I have a question or definitive advice or experience or a vent.

I know my H has a one-issue mind. If something's on it, that's all that's on it and everything else is drivel and not worth his attention, so he dengrates it and pushes it away.

When he had his business, it was the business to the detriment of everything else. The affairs - the same thing -- sex was all he thought about. Right now it's finances. He's headed into his slow period, my work hours were cut, I'm not getting any new transcription physicians, unemployment has run out, we took a huge hit on all our savings with the stock market plunge. There isn't much more room for belt tightening. For crying out loud I bought an $8 dress for a wedding we have in two weeks.

I know in his mind it's all me because I haven't looked for full time work. In his mind I'm not doing anything worthwhile around the house either (ie bringing in money). And I know he doesn't want to come out and tell me I have to get a FT job again. He won't "talk" about it, it will become orders. He knows I have a more optimistic view of the world than he does and he thinks I don't feel the pinch. He's the "ant" and I'm the "cricket". And I don't know if I can handle a full time job again. I don't know that I can do it especially when winter hits and he's home alone. This is a big trigger period for me. Last year worked out well because we had a mild winter and I was home anyway.

He's got a drs. appt on Wednesday afternoon. DD has a late night at work. I guess I'm going to have to pop a few valium and try and talk to him calmly about what's on his mind. Listen carefully for the blameshifting and avoid reacting to it.

In one case I guess I'm lucky that he "puts everything behind him" because he also puts our arguments and his dissatisfaction behind him and keeps moving forward.

I have never learned to do that.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, October 21st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy - I wish I had something positive to say but I can only send hugs. When I read your posts I am only more confused by your H's lack of ability and willingness to change the behavior that continues to keep your R in a sort of limbo. It's not working for either of you.
The seminar that I've been attending talks about getting off the "crazy cycle." I hope I'm not offending you, but it's a very rare post where you talk about growth on his part. His continued negativity keeps you both going round and round feeling frustrated and I'm guessing discouraged about finding happiness in your M.
In one case I guess I'm lucky that he "puts everything behind him" because he also puts our arguments and his dissatisfaction behind him and keeps moving forward.

Again, Weepy, I hope I'm not stepping out of line but I don't see how his behavior indicates that he is moving forward. If he was moving forward, you would see real progress in your M and your R. You have carried the load by working full-time for many years. Why does he feel he is justified in making you feel that you need to get a F/T job especially if you are having health issues? Why does he feel the need to constantly critisize you? It is so destructive to your relationship and I would think your willingness to give him whatever it is he needs. I've heard you say how you try not to take the bait when he pushes you but how long can you continue this? I have very little tolerance for my H's negative behavior. I am just not able to walk away. To me, it would just build up more and more resentment and even a degree of hatred if I was unable to discuss the injustice of his criticism.
I wish I knew of a way to help you to break this crazy cycle you're in. I wish one day he would wake up and realize he wanted more out of life for himself and for you and your children.
((((((((((Weepy))))))))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, October 21st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, one good piece of news... I found a FABULOUS dress for the wedding. Now I just have to hit Avenue for a great bodyshaper.

And fnf, he DOES move forward, for himself. Doesn't matter if he leaves everyone in the dust kind of scratching their heads... if he's done with it, he's done with it. Next problem.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, October 21st (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you think its all still fresh for you, because you havent been able to effectively deal with it as a couple? But if your H hasnt changed much apart from stopping the A, then I can clearly see why you havent been able to move on.

LH: you could be right. We aren't in MC or IC so haven't truly dealt with this as a couple. He has written me 2 letters (past deadlines and done under duress IMO) but I got the 2nd one the night before we left on a trip to see our Navy son and I haven't been able to talk with him about it. Seems there's always something happening to push it into the background.

Then you have the added stress of OW still being a part of your life, not because there is an OC,(which you cant do much about)but due to his job (which he does have control over)... no wonder you find the trauma so fresh.
Is there no way at all that he can change jobs? Is there any other solution which removes her from your lives, thus allowing you both to move forward?

She's still in our life as she works for one of his customer's full time and for my H when needed in the busy period. He can't change jobs (he is management in a unique & limited occupation, only a few yrs from retirement) We'd lose health benefits/ medical insurance and pension plan.
More later, he's home...

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 22nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How is it possible to have what seems like a perfectly normal conversation with my H in person or on the phone and realise that I donít know this man at all? Iím chatting away, and then wonder if itís worth the effort. He used to call her for a ďchatĒ. I donít understand any of it. But I know Iíve been badly triggered by UKg2 and her disintegrating marriage. MC has told me to step back from their situation a little as Iím just not strong enough and itís affecting our reconciliation process. But I just feel for her so badly.

my biggest worry is that it will take away from us, it will continue to affect his view of sex as sex instead of "making love" with a spouse,

Whatnow, it sounds very unhealthy if it has that effect. Unfortunately, I think that immersion in something like porn does have a detrimental effect on the way some people view women and life in general. It sounds like NP should be as much a definite as a NC to your situation.
I wanted it to be more positive and it ended talking a lot about some things I've been worried about....

Sounds like you need to get some issues out. Can you do this at MC? Thereís nothing wrong with taking a list or some notes along, you know.

his reaction was "OK, I guess I'm invisible, you don't want to listen to me or talk to me, fine."

Weepy, I wasnít saying to ignore him (Iím obviously not being very clear here!), just to pass it back to him. Ask him what he thinks is a reasonable response from you and to explain why. This shouldnít be difficult if he only concentrates on single issues and you are batting back the single issues. But financial problems can be a real whipping post and is ready primed for arguments. But I agree with fnf, you have done more than your share and he is being unfair. Dunno what else to say on that one, sorry. But pleased about the dress!!
Trouble is that I'm just not as sure as you are that I don't need him as well as still want him.

Lostsoul, I donít want to need him, which is not quite the same thing. If I really didnít need (or want) him, I guess weíd be divorced by now. But if push comes to shove, I will survive without him. Iíve seen others do it and I will too. And sometimes I think the only way I will get over this betrayal is to not be with him. It hurts just to look at him at times.

I don't know how he can put 3 yrs of betrayal behind him so easily when it's still so fresh for me.

Because he was dealing with it as it evolved. You have to examine the finished product and wonder how it got to be like that. Heís done with it. But I think the only way you are going to come to grips with this and for him to fully understand is to do some MC, if you can. I remember the letter, werenít you on your own at the time? Can you track it back to a link where you posted about it? Iíd like a reminder, if thatís okay.

HB Ė Sounds like a bit more than a prang totalled your car. Hope the physio gets sorted soon. Not a nice thing to happen.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, October 22nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HB, I am fine thanks. Trying to get a referral to a chiropractor. Hopefully I will be able to sort out my back issues at the same time.
So till then, just popping normal painkillers.

***
Lostsuol, does OW have to work for your H in the busy season? There has to be someone else that can do her job? Its just awful that you have to be put through the wringer for a whole season like that.

***

MC has told me to step back from their situation a little as Iím just not strong enough and itís affecting our reconciliation process. But I just feel for her so badly.

Ukg, I know you do,but sometimes, like now, you HAVE to put your self first. It goes against your nature to be selfish, but try to think of it as being merciful..to you. When you are stronger, you will be more of a help to your friend. And from what you have said about her, i think she will understand that you need to step back some. You are not abandoning her. You just need to save yourself first.

((((Ukg))))

***
Whatnow, re the anger..it will come.
It hit me long and deep around the 7-8 month mark (post dday#1). So dont fret too much about that now.

And you know, you dont have to be positive right now, if thats not how you feel. If there are unresolved issues gnawing at you, get them out, one by one. If communicating by letter works for you, then write them out, one at a time, and tell H that you would like to tackle them one at a time.Give him some time to read and digest and think about how he wants to respond.And then have a chat about it. It sounds time consuming, but since time is an issue anyway, this may save some in the end.

There is no right or wrong way to feel, act or think. You just are, and as long as you are true to yourself, then you are right.

***

Hey Solost. How are you? Remember...we are here for you.

(((((Solost)))))

***

Hi Fnf!!!

I have missed you.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, October 22nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Youngest DD announced today that her bf's parents were getting a D. This is the same mum who, when DD was crying and clinging to me after I just started work, remarked that she will never leave her young children to work and how children should always come first. She also quite smugly told me last year that H got her the latest BMW for her bday and on the day,she rocked up with a errr...slightly "altered" face( ).

Just last month, I saw her DD crying and clinging to her as she was leaving for work (she had just started the previous month and when she told me, I wished her well). And now she is getting a D. All I can think of is, "How very very sad. Another family broken."

I know this might be triggery for my DD as the D word has been thrown around this house too. I want to ask her how she feels but am scared to. We are going to Paris next week and thus far, there has always been a huge fight just before the holiday. I am already getting anxious and trying to "play nice" with H, in an attempt to cut off any sabotage attempt. I am also being careful with the kids and trying not to upset them as well.

Boy, this whole life after dday sure is complicated.

On the good side, my manager gave me a little boost today. He said, "LH, your ability truly outweighs your confidence.You dont know how valuable you are, not just as a person, but as a professional member of this team.We are going to have to work on that!"
Aw gee, shucks sir.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, October 22nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"LH, your ability truly outweighs your confidence.You dont know how valuable you are, not just as a person, but as a professional member of this team.We are going to have to work on that!"

Our thoughts exactly.
You are such a force here I can't even imagine how amazing you must be IRL.

I am sorry about your daughters friend. It is so sad. I think you should try to find a quiet time just to ask her 1) if she is okay and 2) if she has any questions. I wouldn't make any promises just try to make her feel safe and loved.

So I have hit upon yet another roadblock to R. Well, not so much a roadblock but maybe an impediment. My H has always travelled a lot for business. His company has offices all around the world and he manages a lot of people in those offices as well as clients in those locations, so travel is necessary. After ddayy #1 last year he managed to cut his travel schedule back a lot for about 8 months but then the CEO mentioned that he needed to "get back out there". I understand - it is the nature of the beast and, in this economy, no one should bitch about any job.

He left a week ago Monday (the 13th) will be home this Thursday afternoon (the 23rd) and then is leaving again the following Monday for 4 days. How do you R with someone who isn't there? Seriously! This LTA shit is thick and there is a lot to go through. If he is out of town we are at a standstill. When he is here we have 3 kids, a dog, 2 jobs, a house, each of the kids plays three sports (why did I have to have girls jocks!!!), so we don't even see much of each other when he is home!!!

I told him that the foundation of our relationship was supposed to have been built waaaaayyyyyy back when so when these busy, trying times come we look back at our good times together and pull through for our future. Weelllll, don't exactly have that foundation, nor do we have the time to rebuild it. aaaaaaagggggghhhhhhhh (can you tell I am frustrated? )

I might post this in recon too just to see how people manage their real lives and R as well.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, October 22nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my manager gave me a little boost today.

Hey! Good for you! Itís so nice that some one can tell you how lovely you are! Hugs, hon.

And I know youíre right. I have to step back, but I still want her to get her ducks lined up. He is going to go and she canít/wonít see it. He is in major crisis with his world collapsing around him. She canít help, she can only stand back and watch him self destruct.

Shirley, I know how you feel as my H has always spent part of business weeks away. Heís home late tomorrow and flies to the States next week. Some of the time he works from home though, so I try to fit in to be around. I try to not be affected by his stay aways, but the frequent absences made the affair so easy for him. And wherever he said he was or who he was with or what he was doing, I took as truth. Fact. There was no reason not to. Now, what he says is what he says and no more. After all, that hotel garden he claimed to be calling from was actually OWís garden and the hotel restaurant was her kitchen. And the evening call to me was made while she was getting ready to go out. And the phone calls he took were not necessarily colleagues and the texts were not all from mobile contractor offering bolt ons. He tells me when his hotel reservation is in the inbox, as if it's part of the new open honesty. But thatís just a room in his name. They will ALL have been in his name whether she was accompanying him or not. I wonder if thatís why he never took her abroad. Thicko me has only just twigged that one, her name will have been down for the same room thereby being too much of a risk. Whatever, these days Iím not the slightest bit interested.

We went to the Botanical Gdns for lunch in the week. I suggested it as thereíd been a news item about this year being a brilliant autumn. We met up with him coming from one direction and me from another. I said nothing, but it was a horrible trigger time as I was thinking that he would meet OW at the tearooms near her country park, theyíd lunch (which heíd pay for) and then stroll the grounds if the weather was nice. And we did the same. I kept taking my hand away from his because I couldnít bear it. And it just broke me up when he kissed me by my car before we set off our separate ways again. It seems I canít enjoy the simplest things that we just took for granted.

We had MC last night and weíre booked again in a monthís time. She said if I need to talk in between time, to give her a ring. I think she wants to see me again, she referred to me being ďdeeply depressedĒ. I wept several times during the session. Iím back to the ďthis whole thingís not worth itĒ mode. I feel like I just exist day to day without sense of time or purpose. I told her I even feel I put on an act for my boys and that my life continues to be a lie. The only person I can rely on is me and no, I wonít ever rely on FWH again. I did that before, and look what happened. My foundation was nothing but shifting sand. I looked at this man next to me, who I had thought was a really decent, honest and honourable person and saw some one who deliberately lulled me into a false sense of security. He was the love of my life, but I obviously wasnít his. I just kept thinking, how could you do this and tell me you love me? How could you actively seek out, take pleasure in the company of and fuck some one else and claim to love me? What utter bollocks.

I hate winter. MC asked if we had been away on holiday this year. No. How stupid, but it made me weep again because I thought he couldnít even do that for me. He said weíll go to St Lucia. I doubt it. If I donít organise it, it wonít happen. MOWís BH has taken her on at least two trips that I know about and probably some others too. My H canít even be bothered to book a weekend break.

And one other thing guaranteed to make me hate this A crap is when I take the lone dog for a stroll over to the park. We used to have two and every morning at around 6.30am, every single day unless he was away or it was pouring, he took the dogs for a walk, collected the paper and checked his texts and voicemails. Then he would make the orange juice while the tea was brewing and bring it up to me in bed. And every day I fight to keep out thoughts of how he would have his ďintimateĒ time with her and act so nonchalant later. Heíd see and talk to the same early morning people every day, all part of his routine while integrating this woman into our lives. His two faced treachery. She, that woman, was a part of MY life and I never knew it.

Another ramble. Iíll just say gínite and crawl under the duvet.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
fadingmemories
♀ Member
Member # 20531
Default  Posted: 11:04 PM, October 22nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,
I'm sorry that you all have been through this pain but I find strength in the fact that you are sharing and getting through. My WH's A lasted for over 12 years. OW's H had cheated on her and she made my husband her hero. Dday was 4/11/08, I was blinsided as many of you were. My H is remorseful, in IC and we are in MC. OW was a coworker of mine many years ago. I have lived through hearing all the details, watched our adult children crumble with the knowledge of the A and worked extremely hard to not give up the ship.
I have written the OW a long letter about all that I know. I need her to know she has lost and how pathetic her hanging onto my husband was. He never spent a dime on her, never brought her flowers, never shared a bottle of wine, never took her out in public. He said he liked her conversations the most but she was always good for a quick bang at the end of the visit. She was always willing and it was easy because he did not have to put any "emotional crap" into it. Most of the time, he says, she was actually "grateful".
She wasted 12 years of her life on that???? HOW PATHETIC!! I want her to know. Should I send it? Have any of you felt the need to do that? Were there reprocussions? WH has had NC since the day after dday when she followed him to work.


Me BS
Him FWS
Married 25 Years† Together 31
LTA 12 years
DDay 4/11/08
R 2/14/09
"No matter if you think you can or you can't...either way you are right"
Scars do not form on the dying...
only on the survivors.



Posts: 315 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: North East
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:48 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the boost, Shirley.
I felt like shouting out from the rooftops after the manager said that, but you guys are the only ones I can tell. I am actually afraid to even tell H cos he would slur it..like when I got the job and he said, "They must be really desperate!Maybe they didnt have many candidates." (to hire a no-experience-havent workedin12years-SAHM).
So I am keeping this nugget close to me.

***

How do you R with someone who isn't there?

My sentiments exactly with H's new work hours.

However, how about looking at this differently...or try to make an omelette out the scrambled eggs(can you tell I am supposed to be on a diet? )?

When H is not there, you are able to focus on you and you alone. Which is where you have arrived on the healing path, right? So instead of trying to rebuild the M etc, move the spotlight onto yourself, and you dont have H or the M to distract you. When he is there, you both take on the initiative to plan "couple time" as often as is possible.

Shirley,
How does he feel about travelling? Is this something he is happy to continue doing, at the expense of the family that he almost lost (bearing in mind that that isnt even cast in stone yet)? Thats the argument I put forward to H. Along with the facts that I am not happy to carry the bulk of the family life alone anymore but I WILL do it.Is he prepared for us to get accustomed to not having him around, and becoming "dispensible"?
How can we even start building the foundation when we are still getting rid of the debris of the old rotten one?

I cant force H to find a job closer to home. I can only do the best I can in this sitch. It sucks though.

****

(((((((Ukg)))))))))

I thought you had an IC already!
Please look into getting one. I am worried about you. And will you quit beating yourself up!! You are not a "thicko"!

Re your friend, she will only see when she is ready to see. And she obviously hasnt reached there yet.How about getting her to look for an IC as well? A different outside eye might help her see more clearly, but also give her more support too, KWIM?

You first though, UKg.

***

Should I send it?

Welcome fadingmemories to our little sanctuary.

Re your question, I will ask you one...what do you hope to achieve by sending it?
Is this a form of closure for you? Do you want her to hurt and know how pitiful she is? We have discussed this here before and there has been no common consensus. Some feel that NC is NC, and nothing worthwhile can be achived by contacting OW; that the time and effort is too precious to be wasted on her; that it is dangerous opening that door again, etc. Others have felt that they needed to show her exactly what she was/is in the grand scheme of things; to find closure od a person who was a part of your life but you never knew; to find a way to address one of the perpetrators, etc.

In the end, there is no common answer. Both have their merits and faults. Whatever you decide, it must be something that you are prepared to live with.
Hope that helps.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
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