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User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I I I
fadingmemories
♀ Member
Member # 20531
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Lost Heart for your response.
I definately see it as closure. I need a way to be done with her. My H says he was chasing phantoms, looking for something that did not exist outside of himself. I want this phantom to no longer haunt me. I can not find any other way to be done with her.


Me BS
Him FWS
Married 25 Years  Together 31
LTA 12 years
DDay 4/11/08
R 2/14/09
"No matter if you think you can or you can't...either way you are right"
Scars do not form on the dying...
only on the survivors.



Posts: 315 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: North East
fadingmemories
♀ Member
Member # 20531
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H also travels for work
(is this stereotypical or what?) OW followed him out of state more than once. He has not traveled since the week after dday but will start again next week. The money triples when he travels, we like most these days need it.
However, my stomach is begining to turn.


Me BS
Him FWS
Married 25 Years  Together 31
LTA 12 years
DDay 4/11/08
R 2/14/09
"No matter if you think you can or you can't...either way you are right"
Scars do not form on the dying...
only on the survivors.



Posts: 315 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: North East
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"LH, your ability truly outweighs your confidence.You dont know how valuable you are, not just as a person, but as a professional member of this team.We are going to have to work on that!"

I would like to officially join in with your manager and everyone on here and say that you are a gift and a treasure to all of us. So many times, even when you yourself are struggling, you hop on here and offer some of the best advice I've read to others who are hurting. You are so, so special and I am so glad to know you, if only in cyberspace (but I'm hoping to change that next summer ).
HS - the advice that LH gave you is, as usual, "spot on." Your current situation reminded me of the advice you received a few weeks ago where the IC told you to try taking a few steps in one direction and then a few in the other and to see which felt most comfortable and that eventually you would know which direction you wanted your life to take. Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe this is going to give you the wisdom you've been seeking.
I also loved some of the advice you got over in R, especially the advice for your H. I hope he read that and copied it and will show you from a distance that you are always with him. (((HS)))
I wanted to add one other thing, shortly after d-day my H retired. We went from seeing each other an average of about 2 hours a day to being together 24/7. It was dreadful!!!!!! Here was our opportunity to finally bond and I thought instead that one of us was going to end up in the ER. I know this is the other extreme, but let me just say that having too much time together almost ended our M. In those early months of R, I needed the space and I especially needed time away to think clearly. I think this is the advice that LH is talking about, taking that time and using it to find our what HS wants. This just may be a blessing in disguise.
Weepy - how are you today? I cannot tell you how much I think about you in those sessions. I feel you would really find the topic so interesting and if you think you'd like more information, just let me know and I will find out where you can purchase these tapes. Apparently they are available. I also think the way they are presented that your H would also respond positively to them. They in no way "blame" either party they simply talk about how you can get off the "crazy cycle" and have a better M.
(((Weepy)))
Fadingmemories - welcome to our safe haven. Again, LH has given you very good advice. She is amazing. Personally, I never wanted to contact the OW. To me, she was nothing and I had no need for closure even though I had believed that she was a friend of mine. Once I realized what she was capable of, I accepted that she was never my friend and therefore felt no need to confront her nor to seek an apology from her. She is dead to me. I know though that this is not the same for everyone. I will say that I discussed with my IC how I could get rid of my anger toward her without confronting her directly. We were supposed to work on that but I felt my primary goal was working on my R with my H and that required all of my time and energy. In the grand scheme of things, she was nothing but a speck of fly shit and who needs to deal with that. (JMHO) (((FM)))
UKG - I hope you are feeling better today too. It seems you are having such a hard time lately and I wish there was something I could offer other than lots of hugs. I was thinking about how similar our stories are and yet we are in different places in our recovery. I can't help but think that it is because I had been so detached from my H for many, many years before d-day. We had gone is such opposite directions and I had long since given up having that dream M that I went into my marriage hoping for. Now, it's a little strange to see him working for something I thought we had both silently given up on. So I proceed with caution, I enjoy the gestures he makes and I don't allow (or try not to anyway) myself to get my hopes and expectations too high because I don't want to be let down. I was wondering how you feel about this. You see, I did not feel connected to my H at all during those years and as much as I was frustrated and disappointed early on, I came to find a way that gave me a lot of satisfaction in my life, apart from him. I often look back on that time and question whether or not I could have fought harder when he was pulling away. But too late. So, I know I'm rambling but I was wondering if you would mind sharing with me how it was different for you. I guess I'm thinking that while something inside me died during those years, you may have kept a flame burning, does this make sense? My flame had all but extinguished and now it is my H who is working to rekindle what was lost.
(((UKG)))



D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:59 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OW's H had cheated on her and she made my husband her hero.

Can you see just how pathetic this is? She is a BS and makes her "hero" a cheating husband? Can't you take some solace from knowing just how utterly pathetic this situation was?

My H also travels for work
(is this stereotypical or what?)

My H doesn't travel, but he made his own hours. So it doesn't matter if they travel or are home, they will find a way if they want to. I know that early on, the first year, I couldn't stand it if he was gone from my sight or on the phone, for more than an hour. Is there anything he can do to make his travelling more comfortable for you?

just let me know and I will find out where you can purchase these tapes.

There's no interaction required? No homework? Do you and your H discuss the session when you're done? Do you feel they are actually doing anything for BOTH of you?

I guess I'm thinking that while something inside me died during those years, you may have kept a flame burning, does this make sense?

You know I kept a candle burning in the window because I never stopped trying to "win" him over until our 20th anniversary weekend in 1999. That was 5 years into his affair period.

I booked a getaway for that weekend... a destination of HIS choice. I bought sexy lingerie (which I have subsequently destroyed). He sent me flowers at work the day before we left telling me how much the 20 years had meant to him. I even found a poem last weekend that he had apparently written me that anniversary. When he picked a stupid fight (over the fact that I couldn't get a smoking room) and chose to watch Star Trek reruns over making love to me, when he let me sleep in the other bed and never even came to me, then I gave up. He says he doesn't even remember that trip or what happened. I'm guessing it hit him that I expected him to make love, and he couldn't (guilt/anxiety/already had her), so he had to act that way. He said he didn't even notice there was a subtle change after that. Of course it was after he had left our vacation a few weeks prior to come home "to work". Who works on their vacation?

Anyway, for 5 years I hung on his every breath, hoping that one day SOMETHING would go right. When he threw me a crumb of appreciation for something I'd killed myself over doing, it carried me for a long time, until the criticism buried memories of it. Then the cycle would start again.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Geez, Fnf.
You guys are going to make my head bigger than it already is.
Thank you.

***

Fadingmemories,
It is just gut wrenching awful when they have to leave us, isnt it? Esp if that was when the A used to happen before. There are some steps you can put in place to give you some piece of mind (regular phonecalls, webcam calls,etc), but at the end of the day, if H is going to cheat, he will find a way. This is then more about helping you find that strength to cope. Find ways to keep your days full, esp in the evenings. Pamper and nurture yourself (I LOVE that word, btw...NURTURE!).
And post here about evrything and nothing. We are a pretty easygoing bunch.

***
(((((Weepy)))))
No words, just big, big hugs.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There's no interaction required? No homework? Do you and your H discuss the session when you're done? Do you feel they are actually doing anything for BOTH of you?

Because this is held in a church and the time allowed for the film pretty much doesn't allow for much talk afterward, there is not a lot of discussion among the group following the film.
My H and I do talk about it on the way home (it's about an hour-long drive). It's funny though because I'm glad the group doesn't discuss the sessions since I am probably in a much different place than they are due to my H's LTA.
Which leads me to your last question - are they doing anything for both of us.
In truth, I think it helps both of us to understand how our M got into the trouble it did. However, I can't make the leap to say that it explains how someone I loved and believed in was capable of the extent of deceit my H engaged in for so long. Only my H's FOO issues and MC'ing help me understand that. Also, if you remember a couple of weeks ago, the presenter said that the more mature one has to make the first move to stop the crazy cycle. Well, as the BS of a LTA WS, I wouldn't necessarily agree with this. We have been wounded so greatly that I honestly believe that in the "best case scenario" our WS's need to be the ones to do this. Unfortunately this is not always the case so as a BS, we have to decide if we are willing to make the first move. Here's the problem.
The premise is that if we want to motivate our spouse to meet our deepest need, which according to Dr. Eggerichs, for a woman is the need to be loved by her H, then we must be willing to meet our H's deepest need which he says is the need to be respected. You see the problem for us as LTA BS's.
Respect our H's now that we know what we know? Don't think so.
So, after a lot of thinking these past few weeks, this is what I've come to believe for myself. There is very little I can respect about my H's character in his past. However, and this is a big however, I can look at him today and see how hard he is working to save us. I can see his remorse and sadness for what he has done to me and to our family. I can see the changes he is slowly making and I know it is very hard for him (he's not a youngster, afterall
). He almost always stays with me when I get down, listening as I go over for the upteenth time the issues that still to this day hurt very badly. He guards himself when I can see he wants to defend himself, something our MC told him never to do. If he tries to defend himself, all I have to do is remind him of what our MC said and he immediately backs off. He has been extremely transparent. He leaves his phone out in plain view, he checks with me if he wants to make plans and when I "check up on him" he is where he told me he'd be. So any respect that I give him has to do with how far he has come. I make it a point to let him know how much his changes mean to me and I acknowledge this on a regular basis. And I do see progress so I guess I can honestly say that I agree with the basic premise of this seminar. I give my H the respect I feel for his changes and he is more attentive, loving, patient and available to me than he has ever been which in turn makes me more likely to give him the respect he craves. It's like for years we were on this negative cycle, he ignored me, criticized me, dismissed me and I responded with a kind of contempt and distance that he interpreted as disrespect and he in turn acted more unloving toward me and so on and so on until it spiraled out of control until d-day.
It's interesting that after d-day my contempt and disrespect became a massive dark cloud over us and I am amazed that our MC was able to help us work through this and that he helped my H deal with my rage and contempt during this period. It would have been easier for him to just walk away. I guess that's another reason I am able to give my H more of what he needs. I know those early months had to be horrible for him even though to me it was the absolute consequence he deserved and should have expected.
Anyway, I can send you the link if you would like. It just requires a lot of thinking on how to make this applicable under our personal circumstances. I hope my rambling hasn't lost you along the way.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi fading, thanks for dropping by. Saw your post this morning, but no time to reply then.

No time to read now, but hope to catch up later. Gotta take DS4 to his piano. I've just got in (still got my coat on) from seeing the cosmetic surgeon. I'll tell y'all later.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, LH, how wonderful of your manager to say that to you! You must be doing such an amazing job and that doesn't surprise me one bit! I suspect you picked the perfect career for your personality from having gotten to know you just a little bit.

Shirley, i cannot imagine how hard it must be for your H to be on business trips. I know the economy is horrible, is there any chance of finding a new job? Or explaining to his boss that he does not want to travel? You can't have a relationship by yourself, that's for sure. It's harming both of you, not just you.

((((UKGirl))) You do seem so down to me in the last few weeks. Maybe you should just call and make an appointment for a week or two to talk in between MC sessions, just for you. It's so much to deal with. I should give myself that same advise. And plastic surgeon? Do tell!

fadingmemories, i would be so cautious about sending that letter. Just as an outside observer, my first instinct was "that's his side of the story". You are opening up the lines of communication with her and I suspect her perception of the 12 year affair was slightly different than his and could really feel very hurtful to hear. Do you really want that conversation with her? Just my thought.

Weepy, I am so sad that you H doesn't seem to want to meet you part way here. That story from 1999 could easily have fit in to the way he behaves today and that makes me scared for you, for your future happiness.

H boss just called looking for him. He was already at work, but at a meeting that she probably wouldn't know about, so although it triggered me slightly it is okay. Then I call him to tell him Taco Bell is giving free tacos this evening b/c the Phillies won last night (big excitement here).

Anyway, he starts laughing about her calling his cell phone b/c I think he thinks she told me why he was calling. She didn't. He has to go in early tomorrow to talk to her and risk management or whatever b/c this woman said some sexually inappropriate things to him and a couple other people. He said, I know I told you this. Umm, nope. Wasn't me that you told. She basically just kept saying she wanted off work early to go have sex b/c she needed it every 12 hours and her boyfriend wouldn't come up to wok b/c they had been caught there already and how this other guy they work with 'James", maybe she could ride him for a bit to help the urges. Then said she knew my H was married but he would do, would he do her. Etc, etc, etc. She was off for two weeks and they commented about it to her and she said she doesn't remember t, she had been on steroids and they make her crazy. Someone else must have told the boss and mentioned my H name, so she is asking him to make a statement about it or whatever. She did it in front of patients as well.

OK. Two things. He never told me about this. Second thing, his work is simply soooo immature. I just don't understand it. His affair supposedly started b/c he didn't like this other woman so he and OW pretended to be having an affair just to irritate her. Then out one night, all the flirting in front of her got to them and it started.
'
High school. These are professional people. Hospital, nurses and doctors. You have got to be kidding me. I think b/c they work on such a high stress, very sick patient floor, they get waaaay too comfortable and bonded to one another. I worked there, I remember it. I met my husband there.

And how do you change that?? Although, he is going back for another degree in hopes of getting a management job ( I think/hope). Not being in the 'trenches' would make things more professional I think.

Now my nice day to myself is tarnished. I have two hours before getting the kids. I think I'll have a cup of tea and read for a bit before straightening up.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She basically just kept saying she wanted off work early to go have sex b/c she needed it every 12 hours and her boyfriend wouldn't come up to wok b/c they had been caught there already and how this other guy they work with 'James", maybe she could ride him for a bit to help the urges. Then said she knew my H was married but he would do, would he do her. Etc, etc, etc.

WTF? Who are these people anyway? I cannot believe that people like her actually live among us.
SL - try not to let this ruin your day (easier said than done, I know). Have a hot soak, watch a good movie or read a good book but try not to give this woman another thought. (((SL)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whoah SoLost!
I dont know to be more that these so-called professionals have our lives in their hands, or at your H for not mentioning it to you.

This must be running roadmaps through your head.
Big deep breathe, SoL.
This can wait till he gets home, or even tomorrow. This is not going to spoil your day. You deserve this day, dammit. And no body is going to take it away. So what have you planned?

***
Ukg! How dare you say, "cosmetic surgery" and disappear!!!
Talk woman!


***
Fnf, wow, thanks for taking the time to write that out.

You and your H broke your toxic dance, and are learning the steps to a new healthier one. You led the way for him, Fnf. Well done, my friend. What an inspiration.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 1:40 PM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Then I call him to tell him Taco Bell is giving free tacos this evening b/c the Phillies won last night (big excitement here).

Uh, I thought I heard the giveaway was for next Tuesday the 28th. Better google Taco Bell.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To be honest fading, I wouldn’t send the OW letter. She now knows she’s nothing, but you will be sending her a signal that she is something and coming between you and your H if you do send it. It means she is not gone and consigned to the trash. We often write these things as a cathartic measure for ourselves. I wrote one to OW a few months after dday, amended it after 7 or 8 mths and then again after I met her. But I never sent it. The sentiments changed over time. The only thing that I would tell my OW (which she already knows) is that I don’t hold her responsible. My WH was her KISA and she really thought he had come back into her life and they would be back on that path untrod and the happy ever after ending. I feel sorry for her and even sorrier for her BH. She is one sad bitch, and now a bitter one too. Write it, dwell on it, burn it. She’s gone. Keep her that way.

However, my stomach is begining to turn

FWH was travelling 3hrs each way rather than stay away in the early weeks. Then he got so tired and emotionally exhausted, I made him stay away. His texting to her built up to the same rate as pre-dday, so I ranted on the phone while he was over in Switzerland. Nights away now are numb. I do not allow myself to think about what he was up to. But it’s taken two years to get there. If you read my previous posts, I have this strange response of no reaction. I neither believe nor disbelieve. It’s whatever he says and no more. Just words, not fact. Like watching or listening to an advert. Wallpaper.

but I was wondering if you would mind sharing with me how it was different for you. I guess I'm thinking that while something inside me died during those years, you may have kept a flame burning, does this make sense?

I don’t know what to say to that. We have always been physical, touchy-feely sort of people. Say, even in the kitchen getting dinner for friends – you know how it is (well, was for us). We would have people in the kitchen while we’re cooking and we worked around each other, if we were close he’d put his hand on my waist while I was chopping and he was looking for something in the fridge or freezer. He’d hand me my glass of wine as he took over the hob duty. Kiss me briefly while we stacked the dishwasher. We were always in each others space. It’s hard to explain. I’d sit on the floor in front of the fire between his feet as he sat on the sofa while we watched tv or sat on his lap if there were too many in the kitchen drinking coffee and talking. We have never worn night clothes – pj’s are for modesty at other people’s houses. That’s why it hurt so much went he “went”. Yes, work was crap and he couldn’t find a way of resigning without jeopardising his future. Yes, a couple of the boys were playing up and giving me a hard time. Yes, both sets of parents were having health problems. Yes, my attention was diverted, but FUCK. He’s supposed to be a fucking grown up too! As long as I live, I will never understand why a) he did it in the first place with all the other A shit going on around b) why he didn’t leave when he realised he didn’t love me, c) why he didn’t leave when he realised he loved her and d) why he couldn’t bring himself to finish it or e)just do the decent thing and leave anyway. He had been behaving like a complete shit from time to time, but then would send me texts saying he loved me forever, got me cards on Mothers Day saying thank you for everything you do and all you are (I used to say I’m your wife, not your mother – now I know why he bought them), he would say to the kids “I’m taking your mother out for dinner, get your own tea”. This is all why I can’t get over it. I did so much for him and got treated like shit. I did everything I could for his court case while he was working. Heck, some weeks it was my full time job! I even got the local MP involved. I was his support and he thanked me by fucking someone else. The only time I doubted it was when I went down to 4xM friend on the coast. DS3 was being particularly difficult. DS1 had got drunk and messed up in the kitchen, hallway, downstairs bathroom and left every light, fire and switch on. I felt I had no support from WH. And would you know? HE had spent a “week” fucking MOW while her BH was away. He had told me it was golf. This friend said to me never mind about the boys, they’ll be grown up and gone soon. What about H? Do you love him. She made me think before I answered. It was one of the saddest moments of my life when I said “I don’t know”. That was 4mths before dday. I got home and WH made a real effort. He was loving and kind and sweet and made the boys appreciate me. We had a lovely meal out on my birthday, 2wks before dday. DS2 drove us so we both could drink. And then he dropped his bombshell. It really was as if my world imploded. I was utterly crushed and broken. I couldn’t believe what he was telling me. I kept saying “why are you telling me this?” It was incomprehensible. And no one knew. No one. I felt like my skin was being worn inside out, I was in such pain. I felt reduced to an infantile state and totally reliant on him. I only know August through December happened because I have my journal. It really took that long to even begin to get up from the floor. This was the man who, when he first kissed me down on the seaside prom after closing time in July 1977 made me go weak at the knees and made my heart beat so fast I thought I would faint.

Have to go. I’m crying.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have to go. I’m crying.

Oh UKG, I'm sorry if these memories made you cry. They are beautiful, tender memories and I hope one day you can look on them again without pain and in the light in which I read them, as tender, gentle, loving moments.
Our H's surely fucked up and I know it will take me a lifetime to figure out (if I ever do) the concept of compartmentalization. That is what they were supposedly doing -- compartmentalizing their lives with us and their lives on the dark side. What broken men they are.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. (((UKG)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, UKGirl. I am so sory you are having such a miserable time right now. Memories are terrific and horrible all at once sometimes.

Uh, I thought I heard the giveaway was for next Tuesday the 28th. Better google Taco Bell

OK, Weepy, where were you three hours ago???? lol Note to self, don't trust mom when she leaves messages on the answering machine about free food. lol

LH, I know, it's just nonsense. This was a 19 year old patient care tech. The amount of drama in a hospital can be overwhelming. I think working so hand on at the bedside with such sick people just cuts down barriers and people say anything. This apparently was a big deal and the boss is involved as well as HR.

Side note. About 3 years before me dad left (parents got divorced after 30 years and he is now married to ow), he came home talking about all this crap going on at work about sexual harassment and it was bull and h couldn't believe it. In retrospect, my mom is sure that it had to do with him seeing ow and this third party thought it was inappropriate and was blowing the whistle and my dad thought it might get out so he told my mom all this crap. It eventually all blew over.That was where my brain immediately wet--that he was bsing me b/c he thought I knew about it from talking to his boss.

It's over, it's fine, whatever. I can't do a thing about it.

I read a book and crocheted a bit and then went and picked the kids up and got ds a haircut...much needed and he looks adorable!


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe,
Been quite a while since i last posted but as always i am here daily (several x's a day) keeping up with you all. I feel i'm too screwed up myself still, who am i to give advice? But SI kind of "feeds" me ya know, can't do this without you all.

Went to bed one night a few weeks ago and as i was saying a prayer for one of you, ( it was Lost Heart that night, she was having a particularly difficult time) and i thought what strange places this awful thing have taken me to. Here i am praying for a woman on the other side of the world that i have never met and yet whose hurt i understand so well.And she is over there perhaps going about her daily routine with no idea that someone is saying a prayer for her.

((((Hugs and prayers for all of you.))))

LH,

"LH, your ability truly outweighs your confidence.You dont know how valuable you are, not just as a person, but as a professional member of this team.We are going to have to work on that!"

Oh wow, if you could only see what we see!!!


UKg,
You were one of those on SI who kicked my ass until i finally got myself in IC. Why aren't you taking your own advice girl? Your pain is , oh , i don't know what word to use, palpable.

I do not allow myself to think about what he was up to. But it’s taken two years to get there. If you read my previous posts, I have this strange response of no reaction. I neither believe nor disbelieve. It’s whatever he says and no more. Just words, not fact.

Not so strange, you have really disconnected to protect yourself. You're afraid and i can certainly identify with that.


This is all why I can’t get over it. I did so much for him and got treated like shit.

Perhaps you can't get over it ultimately but to repeat the advice given to me here, you can't get through it all by yourself either. Yes, you did so much for him, you did everything for him and with him first in mind as most of us did, but if there is one lesson i have learned it's that doing so was one of my biggest mistakes. I wasn't nearly as strong as i thought myself to be and it took an awful lot ( including some cyber ass kicking ) before i could admit that this is one thing i couldn't do on my own.
When i told my IC that i felt so weak now when i always believed i was so strong she said, " you are a survivor, there is more strength in that then you realise, you are a survivor".
You too, UK, you too, all of us.

Something in your posts resonate with me. It's something i have been trying to figure out in myself. I think i have been waiting for something from him, to hear something that will undo all of this and allow me to believe there is a possibility i will be able to love him that way again.
Because as much as i hate him sometimes, i miss loving him. At risk of TMI, early on in this after making love or whatever it is now, i burst into tears and kept sobbing the words " i miss you there" , over and over.
And it's true, i do miss him there. Loving him that way was as much a part of me as breathing.
What happens when you can't breathe anymore?
(((UK)))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, October 23rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost,

What a great boss! I'm so glad you started working again. I know it's stressful, but there's something about succeeding in a professional realm to remind you of all the things you are. I think we forget that when we stay at home, and our families do, too.
________________

Weepy,

I wish you could envision a better life for yourself than you are living now. Something so good that you would be willing to really take some risks to bring it to life. Every story you tell makes me so sad for you because you deserve so much better.

________

Fading,

Welcome to our corner of the world. My advice to you would be to ignore the OW. Nothing hurts worse than to be ignored.

___________

UK,

Sorry it is so rough for you right now. How is the IC going?
__________

Hello to FNF, MIG, SoLost, LostSuol, HB, Shirley, What and everyone else. Life is a bit hectic, but I try to at least read a bit every day and it looks like you guys are doing important work here, as always.

BT

ETA, did anyone happen to see Without a Trace last night? Awful, A-related plot where a dad's affair resulted in his only child's death. Terrible.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 9:42 PM, October 23rd (Thursday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 6:07 AM, October 24th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IC gave me homework last night. She thinks maybe I cut back my medication too early, that I'm exhibiting signs of depression again.

So I toggle between trying to understand, which makes me angry, frustrated and triggered or what I see as trying to accept, which makes me depressed and analytical. I am not present in my own life. I'm thinking ALL the time and I lose concentration on tv shows, the books I'm reading, even in conversations. I just won't HEAR what's being said because of the dialogues in my own head.

So the lightbulb moment in IC last night was "I don't want to get better (be more alive, vibrant, happy) because it REWARDS him. I get stuck a lot on the "what has he lost? NOTHING? He got everything he ever wanted, without care or a thought of anyone else and now he gets what he wants again?"

So I'm hurting myself to spite him. I also think that ultimately, if I get better, stronger, happier, then this marriage is over, because I will see that I deserve better.

She asked me how I talked to him during the day. I told her I always put a "smile" in my voice when I answered his calls.... even if I was crying at the time because I'm trying to handle this all alone. Because I don't want to anger him. Don't want to make him want to leave or make my marriage even MORE miserable. I won't even excuse myself from watching tv with him to do my meditations because he'll "know" why I'm doing them (fallout) and he'll get defensive or when there's not "amazing improvement" denegrate my use of them.

My life STILL is all about him. Even when I think I'm doing for myself, it's really just revenge or thumbing my nose at HIM. None of it is really FOR me.

So my assignment, AGAIN, is to do for me. She is requiring me to go to the gym 5x a week and to do the meditations 2x a day. I tell her I don't have the time and realize I am not really busy, just find excuses not to do those things because of putting my energy into him and our M or holding the walls around myself. Pushing people away takes energy too.

mig, the last journal entry I made was about what I missed. I do miss loving him, feeling loved back. I miss him "there" and in my heart.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 6:54 AM, October 24th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy,

I am not present in my own life. I'm thinking ALL the time and I lose concentration on tv shows, the books I'm reading, even in conversations. I just won't HEAR what's being said because of the dialogues in my own head.

Oh, i can sooo relate to this.

So I'm hurting myself to spite him. I also think that ultimately, if I get better, stronger, happier, then this marriage is over, because I will see that I deserve better.

You are a smart cookie and i think you've known this for quite awhile. You are as much at war with yourself as you are with him.
Like me Weepy, even if he told you "the truth" about everything , it is way to late for you to ever know for sure.

I have thought that if i had the real truth i could somehow understand , analyze it to death and finally somehow be able to understand and in some weird way justify what he's done.
I'm beginning to understand that it's not his choices i am really trying to justify, it's my own.
The choice i have made to still be here.
That's the hell of it, i know what i should do, truth or no truth, so how do i justify not doing it?

(((Weepy)))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, October 24th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello from a sunny UK. Got to make the most before the clocks change on Saturday night.

Respect our H's now that we know what we know? Don't think so.

A very valid point. I did respect my H, but in 2004 (after 3yrs shagging her) he accused me of treating him with contempt. If I knew what he was up do, I don’t think contempt would be a big enough word to describe how he should be viewed. It makes me so angry – his best chance to tell me and he turned the whole thing around to be MY fault, thereby validating his withdrawal and affair. SHE was giving him all the “respect” he needed. Yet how could either of them truly have any respect for each other or themselves? Mirror work. So, what can our S do to regain that respect?

It's like for years we were on this negative cycle, he ignored me, criticized me, dismissed me and I responded with a kind of contempt and distance that he interpreted as disrespect and he in turn acted more unloving toward me and so on and so on until it spiraled out of control until d-day.

For me, I honestly don’t believe that happened until he started his affair. And then we had this pushing away and pulling me back. No wonder I didn’t know how I felt.

Anyway, I can send you the link if you would like.
Please.

SoL, I hope your day wasn’t completely wrecked. I just do not understand these sorts of people, just what else is she on, other than steroids? Sounds like an excuse to me. but I think you’re right. Highly stressful job situations can lead to “light relief” of inappropriate verbal interaction. But once you’ve been affected by adultery, no banter of a sexual nature is “light”

When i told my IC that i felt so weak now when i always believed i was so strong she said, " you are a survivor, there is more strength in that then you realise, you are a survivor".

I think it’s one of the difficult things to wrap my head around. I thought I was reasonably strong while I had this strong marriage, which turned out was just as fragile and fragmented as those that fell apart around us. I felt we were a little island in the middle of other relationship maelstroms, at least WE were okay. Hmm. Little Miss Smug. Now I realise I am not strong. I can’t make a decision about what to have for dinner, let alone the rest of my life. A survivor, yes. But that’s all I am doing – surviving. But I KWYM. And as to the over analysing, same here. I am looking for a reason, not an excuse, I am looking for something missing in me when he keeps saying it was him, I am thinking if I could have concrete proof (how much more do I need when I have plenty?!) that he was in love and committed to her and out of the marriage, I would have my termination notice.

Weepy, I too can relate to what your IC is saying. But it’s to do with a sort of self protection. If I’m already really unhappy, then it can’t get any worse. If I am happy, I don’t deserve to be and not only that, I’ll get hurt again, so what’s the point in trying to find happiness. And yes, for me too, it is STILL all about him. Which is what MC says. She tries by saying “no, UKg, not Mr UK, what do YOU want?” And the thing is, I don’t know.

BT – I hope that was fiction, not based on a true story.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 7:22 AM, October 24th (Friday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 7:29 AM, October 24th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I cut and pasted to make two posts - one was waaaay too long! And I'm in rambling mode again.

FNF, It was okay, but now you see what our relationship was like before the A and how he tried (mostly) to keep it that way during the A, maybe you can understand why I find it all so difficult. I can't get my head round what he did except to say that he was selfishly cake eating and selfishly thinking the grass might be greener, life might be easier, with her and I wasn't worth his time and didn't matter.

Ukg! How dare you say, "cosmetic surgery" and disappear!!!

Long before dday, I had expressed a wish to have some sort of surgery. The primary one being breast augmentation. I’ve never been a decent size, although there was nothing wrong with the shape, until I lost weight on the infidelity diet. I’ve only put around 12pounds back on, having lost about 30+. Then, of course I’ve lost weight from my face and I know that’s never going to go back however many pounds I regain. But again, I had expressed a wish “when I’m 50” to have a neck and jawline lift and something done do my eyes. Not that they can do that much, I’ve got piggy eyes and inherited bags due to thin skin. That makes it sound worse than it is, but it’s how I see it.

So, I have to get my eyes tested by someone who’s more than just an optometrist and find out when my last mammogram was done. I’ve had my breasts checked regularly as I have weak milk ducts which sometimes leak a blood stained discharge (sorry, maybe TMI) I fully breastfed all my children and that has probably contributed to how they are now. Sooooo. This very nice consultant (went through my GP, so I know the qualifications are extremely good as he does NHS plastic reconstruction work) said yes, it was all possible, gave me all the complications that might occur as a result and said that the implants would have to go under the muscle tissue rather than just the skin as I am “so thin”. Thanks. And when I work the pec-dec, it will flatten the implant……

It’s A LOT of money. I mean A LOT. Many thousands. Plastic surgery is VERY expensive here. And my GP said he wanted to point out that while there are many well qualified surgeons abroad, any post operative problems come back to the NHS and the statistics are high. I might split the surgery into two, breasts then face, but I would save a substantial amount by having one lot of anaesthetic and single hospital stay.

And am I having this b/c of the affair? I don’t know. Her bust is much larger than mine (but then so’s her backside) and I do NOT want anything bigger than a B/C cup, cos that’s all I’ve ever been. On the other hand, if the A had not happened, would I have opted for a C/D cup? See? Can’t even decide what size I want my tits to be.

Anyone here had any procedures? Shall I ask around down in F&G?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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