So I saw a surgeon, who told me I needed to quit smoking first. So I planned on doing it in August 2005. Well, I couldn't seem to quit, I talked to people who'd had the procedure done and hadn't quit, and they turned out fine, so I booked it. Took the money out of my IRA. Then H says "don't do it now, it's too hot, you'll be uncomfortable -- and I'm NOT installing the A/C in the bedroom ( he didn't want me to have the surgery -- he's a big baby about medical procedures). SO I said OK, after Christmas, while the kids are still home on winter break, that way they'll be around to help me.
Well, DDay came about 6 weeks after that conversation, so it all went on hold. Until Christmas and I started talking about it again but the reasons I wanted it had more to do with feeling undesirable to my H, than about me and my then IC actually talked me out of it.
So fast forward 3 years and I've gained back 50 of those 65 lbs and there's no point in doing the procedure now. I have to lose the weight AGAIN and have no motivation to.
I also spent probably hundreds of $ on cosmetics that promised the results of surgery, without the surgery, but then worried that the smell of them might turn off my H (he'd told me about some smell triggers he'd had when I used his GF's brand of shampoo or had my hair bleached -- which reminded him of the hookers) so I bagged them too.
Now 3 years later, I've aged 10 and have no motivation to do anything about myself... (go back to the I can't be pretty, thin, sucessful or he gets the benefit). So, I say if you want it, go for it. But make sure it's for the right reasons.
mig, you're right, I am fighting with myself and have been since I started kicking myself about how I handled my discovery. How much more I could have done, how pathetic I must have seemed to him, how desperate.
I only knew one way to handle adultery -- leave or kick him out. And even though I do have a "better" acting husband than I did during those 10 years of my M, I do realize that it's not good enough for me. That he's never going to give me what I want and I don't have the energy to go out and get what I need.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I don't post here often, but I do read. I am sorry that so many still sruggle and I am sending strength and hope!!
My world is good and spinning by quickly. FWS and I spend quite alot of time away together. We talk and laugh and really enjoy being together. He is such a different person and because of that, WE are different... better.
He is even working hard with getting to know his kids better. That in itself is cause for celebration.
We are leaving today for a short trip... going camping. The weather is rainy, but we will find things to do.
I am going to try posting here more often, as long as you put up with all my happiness, and sunshine!
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
FNF can I tell you how much your phrase "proceed with caution" means? I do need to proceed with R... but with caution is so appropriate, thank you. I also find the respect for my H in his hard work at all of this. He says he did not grow up until his 50th birthday, dday was 2 days before.
WEEPY Pathetic is what I thought as well... How sad to be her.
I know I struggle as well with the fact that he got everything he wanted. He had her to have, quiet conversations and wild sex with while I was home making his dinner, folding his laundry and caring for his children. Now today, that is different. My H does not have my or our children's utter respect. He has lost that. When he tries to give them advice, he sees in their eyes the "why should I listen to you...". He says that loss of respect is crushing. He says he also has to look in the mirror every day and realize he is the man he is, has done what he has done and truly understand what that means. I think he does not have everything, he does not have true self respect. As a family, we are all working hard not to hate him for it.
SO LOST I do not want to open the lines of communication, anywhere. I will not communicate again or listen in any way. My reason for the letter was "The End"
Ok all, I mailed it...yesterday, before I had a chance to read all the posts. I shared the information in it with my H. He had no problem with my sending it and said if she tried to contact him he would hang up, walk away or forward her email to me without reading it. He would also let me know immediatly that she tried to make contact.
For years, as we worked together, I now recognize her bemused smile as her 'I've got a secret...and if you only knew...". I had to let her know there were no more secrets, I know everything. If my husband slanted the information, I hope she realizes even more how false what she thought she had was.
My H says what he had there was paper mache' ..what he has at home is gold.
I still wonder why it took 12 years for him to realize that!!!
UKG I'm sorry you are wearing your skin in side out...that is so true to what everything feels like right now. I feel like if anyone bumps me I would bruise so easily. Maybe someone could share some skin toughening techniques.
We are all good people who did not deserve what was dealt to us. However, we have control over our steps from here. I hope you all have deep breaths of fresh air and sunshine on your face today. Thanks you for sharing. I'm glad figured this out and found you!
Wow weepy. 65 pounds??? Did you want to lose that much? I guess itís not the same for me, I was about 140 or less around dday, and at 5ft 6in a 30+ loss was quite worrying for FWH, esp as Iíd never been on any sort of diet before! The last time I was so light was after a bad miscarriage and I looked like an anorexic.
I think itís easy to talk ourselves out of surgery procedures, after all, it seems self indulgent. But it sounds like your H didnít want you to have it done so that he could still have some control or hold over you by keeping you down. I wish you had done it, then you would not have felt defeated. He was putting you down weepy, you should go back to that dream of having it done. Iíd say a 65 loss is worth treating with a tummy tuck.
go back to the I can't be pretty, thin, sucessful or he gets the benefit
But I need to feel I AM doing this for me. Just me. I feel a bit guilty thinking about doing it when the surgeons could be doing patients who really need them, butÖÖ would they? I havenít gone over it with FWH yet and I might ask him along to another consultation to see about the breast sizing. But then again, wft is it to do with him? I do not want OWís breasts!!!! Itís my body. Aaarghh! Is this vanity or lack of self esteem???
while I was home making his dinner, folding his laundry and caring for his children.
MIG - peeping out from behind the sofa??!
Glass of wine anyone? It IS Friday.
I saw this and haven't responded:
Sounds like you need to get some issues out. Can you do this at MC? Thereís nothing wrong with taking a list or some notes along, you know
It's funny because part of the letter was about WHY I haven't been able to discuss things- and 1 of the bigger topics did get brought up in MC although I had wanted to talk about another, the porn issue- but hopefully we can get to that Tuesday.
Not much to report here- WH has been in an okay mood- we've been talking about the A a little. I still haven't given him the letter but didn't get to finish it until this afternoon. My dad is taking the kids tomorrow until Sunday morning. We don't really have any plans but will probably catch a movie & dinner again.
Hope everyone has a great weekend!
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
Enjoy your time sans enfants.
Methisium (sp?) resistant staph is a problem in hospitals in the US. Maybe you are okay there but here it is an issue. I would think twice about potentially putting my life at risk for this. I had a great body when i was young. Three kids and breast feeding later everything is a solid two inchest loweer than it should be. My kids love it. They don't want to see me in a bikini...they want me to be mom. I look hot in a "tankini" and I get the ones with the underwires and whatnot to put it all back where it belongs.
As far as the boobs, I have only two words... Victoria Secrets. The have bras that make me LOOK like I had a boob job (obviously not naked ). Just be careful with the risk you are taking.
I have been lurking, and have been holding everyone on my thoughts.
Ukg, I discussed surgery with my IC and she was adamantly against it.She has a number of clients who post surgery, are shocked to find out that it didnt solve things like they thought it would. Which excerbated their depression and coping skills.
She said the key to my whole body issue, was to rebuild myself up inside completely and solidly, but then, when I get there, I would be so confident in myself, I wouldnt even want surgery. Does that make sense?
(I dont know know though.
If I had the money, I would love to do my boobs, butt , thighs, tummy, skin...but thats it. Ok, maybe some lip fillers and eye lift.
Ooh, can I do my nose as well?? )
Ukg, you are not in a good place right now. In fact, you havent been for a quite awhile.
I dont think this would be a good time to do anything drastic. Do some work with an IC first. Find your way through this mess and build up your path. I know its not the one you had marked all these years. I know you are grieving the deaths of many many dreams.
But at some point, you will have to start living again, Ukg. You are going to have to come out from behind your fortress and start building new dreams. I have met you, and I think you are just so gorgeous.( I spoke to mumto3 soon after and when I was describing you to her, I said that you are coolly elegant and sophisticated, I was convinced that you might have been a model at some time. )
And here on the forum, your intelligence and humour and empathy is clearly evident.
MIG, I am so humbled.
We are off to Paris tomorrow for the week.And have so many other things going on. The kids are unusually subdued about the trip and to be honest, I am not all that excited either. I guess the ghost of the last one is still hanging with us.
Still, we have been planning this trip since we lived in Australia. So am going to dig deep and drum up some fire for it.
All the best to everyone.
BT, I cant watch A-related movies. I can barely read books that have them. Just finished one that had my heart in my throat most of the time.
Iíve been back to seriously thinking about it for the last year, but hadnít the courage to go to my doctor and seek advice. As it turns out, he was fine, as long as I was doing it for me and it was what I wanted. I didnít mention it in MC cos I hadnít told H I was arranging consultations.
Shirley, the stories about MRSA have been hideous. Much as I hate to do down the NHS and its ďfree from cradle to graveĒ policy, those are the hospitals where the superbugs lurk. Neither of the private hospitals my GP referred me to have had a single case. Not one. And post-op infections are single %age figures. With regard to the boob job, I have all the push-ups, fillers, padded bits to give me what Iím lacking which is fine Ė when Iím dressed! I do not like my H looking or staring at my naked body cos it makes me feel very self conscious. I donít mind while weíre having sex; if he starts staring at me, I close my eyes and then I canít see him looking at me!!!
I posted over in Gen and got some good responses. So, I guess Iíll go ahead. I actually thought Iíd have it done just before Christmas. Then I have my excuse to not have the family up and all the organising and palaver that event involves.
Whatnow, do you know why you canít/wonít discuss some issues?
UKG- It's not that I won't discuss certain issues- they will get discussed eventually. It's more of the problem of finding the right time, right mood for both of us to be open of a good productive conversation....with both of us working full time, 2 small children conversation is sometimes hard, yk? It's that choice to possibly ruin a good evening but sometimes that's the way it goes. I do like writing letters, although get much more helpful information from a conversation. WH didn't say much after he read the recent letter. He said something like, "Well, I already knew all that- I think I know where you're at with everything." I guess women appreciate being comforted, love being reassured, etc. much more than men- at least WH seems to be that way. I thought he would appreciate hearing my thoughts- restating my commitment but it seems as if he kinda takes it for granted. Ah well. We drove down to pick up our kiddos today and was reading "Real Love in Marriage" which somehow lead to conversation about the start of the A's. WH said, "I hate this." We talked and he said that conversation about the details puts him in a pissy mood. Ya....but it helps me so....
UKG- Sounds like you have thought out the option of surgery for years so it's certainly not an impulsive decision. I don't have any advice really. I haven't had any although would think about it if I had the money, which we don't so I don't even go there. OW#1 had a boob job while their A was going on . Not that WH liked them but it still irks me.
Hope you have a wonderful time LH.
As far as the boobs, I have only two words... Victoria Secrets
Can I add an infomercial here too? LOL. I LOVE, absolutely LOVE bras from Lane Bryant if you have one around. They are cheaper than VS and I think more supportive. If they don't have your size in stock in store (they carry a ton) you get free home shipping. I love em, just ordered one last night actually. On another side note: OW#2 intoduced me to Lane Bryant bras- so while I love them I have some issues with them as well. I already mentioned my own issues with my breats, and how she loved her own.
On another note...after we were talking in the car and WH said it puts him in a pissy mood- he specifically said talking about sex with OW#2......maybe someone can enlighten me. I understand that it's difficult because he did wrong, made horrible choices, may have lost everything, etc. But even with all that, I just don't get how 8 months ago they could have sex all the time, take pictures of it for fuck sakes and now he's just beyond himself bothered to think about it. From OW's angle- During a conversation after D-day with her she mentioned how she had been unpacking her stuff after moving out and thought, "why did I take these sheets?" BLAH!. WTF? Why is it instantly so horrible for both of them? They knew all along it was wrong- not some big surprise.....can anyone explain this more?
I have tried to put myself in his shoes and it's difficult because I am content with all my past relationships and have no regrets....so I have difficult imagining how WH can have negative thoughts when it comes to sex with them.
FNF where are you on this?
Why is it instantly so horrible for both of them? They knew all along it was wrong- not some big surprise.....can anyone explain this more?
Whatnow, I have also struggled somewhat with this issue with H.
This is the best way he could describe it to me, and I hope I can explain it adequately:
Imagine that you are a crook. You lie and steal from people. Maybe people who love and trust you but you do it anyway, cos you get so caught up in it. You start off by nicking something small, and you get away with it. Next time, you go for something bigger, and you are shocked (and tantalised)that you got away with it. It becomes intoxicating and very addictive; and even though you tell yourself, that this is the last time, you find yourself doing it more and more, taking bigger and bigger risks. And you get away with it.
Soemtimes there are some warnings and you lay low for awhile but then you start again...all the while with noone any wiser. You are invincible.
But one day it all comes crashing down...and you become painfully aware of not only that you are nothing but a cheating lying crook, but worse, you hurt people who are most beloved to you.
But much much worse is that you have to face yourself.
Now, would you like to relive all those crimes (in painful nauseating detail? do you want to reminisce on what a complete and utter wanker you are; the worst excuse for a F and H? Do you want to think of the those times with your co-conspirator that now make the insides of you curl up in shame and self loathing?
Or do you just want to let it go and focus on making it up in the now?
I have probably spent $15,000 on therapy of various kinds over the years with the intention of feelng better/happier. I think it was money well spent because I do feel pretty good and I know what to do to keep on feeling that way.
Looks were always been a self-esteem issue with me, but the more therapy I've gotten and the happier I've become with myself, the less they've mattered to me. But if I did have a certain physical issue -- boobs or eyes or whatever -- that bothered me and I had the money, I'd have it surgically corrected.
But I wouldn't have expected surgery to correct all my self-esteem issues from the affair and other things. No amount of surgery in the world would have solved that. I can't imagine that it would hurt you to have bigger boobs or a firmer face, but you need to be clear with yourself about what you hope to get out of the surgery.
I remember seeing that firs name before. It can be shortened to a man' name and I had seen that once before on his cell phone. An email from that name as well. He brushed it off. That had been years before. Oh, God. It suddenly hit me then. It had been years before.
i went to work. on Sat we work with just one other person and talk and chit chat all day long. It was ALL I thought about. I almost said something, as it was a good friend I was working with. I looked up the name at work and saw where she worked and what she did.
My mil was with the kids at home and WH at work when I got home. I didn't say a word. I was silently dying inside. I printed out every phone record that I could... i think 9 months worth. I highlighted every time her number appeared. Most of the sheets were highlighted. They talked sooo much. I was able to look up dates and know they were talking. He talked to her when we were on vacation. I remeber how long it took for him to get ice in the hotel. How strange that was. How grumpy he was. I was dying inside, only not so slowly.
I watched a movie and made dinner and it was ALL I thought about. I lie in bed and waited. The mil and children fell asleep. He got off work at 11:30 pm. At 1 am he came in. He came upstairs and kissed me hello. Asked me what was wrong. I said nothing, why?
He went downstairs to eat. I went in tot he bathroom and looked at myself and knew that the old me was dead. This new person was going to have to emerge.
I walked downstairs. Told him we needed to talk. Asked him to sit down. Told him I knew about her. Who? he asked. I said her name. It was the one and only time I had said her name. His face fell. Later he would say it felt like having a bucket of ice cold water dumped on him.
I was so eerily calm. I barely cried.Probably not a single tear until about an hour in. I asked it all. He answered--much of it not the truth. Story shifted here and there as he tried to deal. He asked if he should call her and end it. He did. She was very willing about that, which made me know it would not be the last we heard of her.
And thus started my nightmare. It all started one year ago for right now, when I just felt this tugging that after all these years, I should finally allow myself to think about the possibility that my husband was cheating.
Now I go to work tomorrow. Just like I did a year ago. And it will be all I think about. And I will come home and do what I am suppose to do and it will be all I think about. Only this time I have already died. There is so little left inside sometimes that I feel like I will just break apart.
Just thought I would let you all know, it started one year ago from right now. My dday would be Tuesday. that was the day he admitted it. The day we started moving forward. But nothing is as simple as a day. It all leads up to and flows after that one day. Nothing is that simple.
[This message edited by So Lost at 6:43 PM, October 26th (Sunday)]
Thanks Lost Heart for the reply.
But much much worse is that you have to face yourself.
But, doesn't this thought almost make them only sorry they got caught? Life would have been just peachy for them to continue.
Now, would you like to relive all those crimes (in painful nauseating detail?
And I think this is why I will never fully understand this aspect. It's all because of compartmentalizing and I just can't imagine being able to do it. Every day of my life, every conversation I have, work I do, relationship with WH, etc. etc. is all processed, planned, thought out before & after. So, they (WH & OW) are either just truly sorry they were caught or couldn't "see" what they were doing based on rationalizations or "shutting it off". It's the same thing as me totally not understand how WH could continue the A say, after a movie, a conversation we would have about our relationship or other people, almost getting caught when I noticed our f'n mattress was moved over a foot away from the boxspring, when his friends A was discovered....all of those things SHOULD have brought something out within him to at least make him contemplate stopping the A. You'd think the stress & guilt from having sex with your WS in the house, and then returning to them minutes later would be enough for fuck sakes. This aspect has been the scariest from day one. Why would I want to be with someone like that who can push everything to the side to put themselves first.
One more thought (maybe I already shared this recently as it's been on my mind). D-day was on a Tuesday, our son's birthday party was planned for that Saturday and WH knew he was going to have to face every family member that had been told of the A. He stated that he wanted to apologize to my father before his arrival to the party, so called him. Then again- HOW can WH suddenly be sorry like 2 days afterwards and regret/have remorse for all his actions? Isn't he sorry because he got caught? If you knew you were fucking up all along- for 2.5 years, how are you NOT man enough to do something about it? WH didn't because he didn't want to stop, yet when he was mistakenly discovered he's instantly sorry and apologetic to my family? I just don't buy it.
[This message edited by Whatnow28 at 7:21 PM, October 26th (Sunday)]
SO LOST Your story made my heart ache. I know we all have similar stories to tell. That's what make this site what it is, we can all feel your pain with you.
(((So Lost))) Keep what you want and need in focus.
WHATNOW I doubted my WH's all of a sudden "so sorry" for months. As far as I could tell at dday, he had come home and slept next to me for 12 years after screwing her in the afternoons when they got out of school (teachers you know, moral guides of our youth)and he was so sorry. He said he was sorry that I sat in the parking lot of Home Depot, a few days before, for two hours waiting for him while he forgot and was "enjoying" her company. On dday, I said I was sorry that he was turning 50 the next day and proceeded to call his family and tell them that the party at our house would be moved and gave them all the OW's address. I told him she could cook his JERK chicken and that I was done!
WH didn't say much after he
read the recent letter. He said something like, "Well, I already knew all that- I think I know where you're at with everything." I guess women appreciate being comforted, love being reassured, etc. much more than men- at least WH seems to be that way
I figured it out. I was talking to WH about this ^^- that I thought he would have liked hearing these words. he again said, well I know from your actions and you have told me numerous times that you're sticking with me....and then it clicked. He has heard it numerous times and trusts it- I have probably heard it a handful here & there....but I don't/can't trust it. I need to hear it over & over & over- in letters, in conversations, through time, through actions & words, etc. etc. So...i'm basically writing out what I want to hear from him. So, we figured that out on the phone just now and he says, "Well, you do know that I love you etc. etc." And I said no, that's just it. I know how well you can lie to me and I don't know anything. We went on to discuss a bunch of what if's....What if he had admitted when I asked just a few months into their A, what if I had picked up on X, Y, and Z...what if he had taken that job, it never would have started, etc. etc. AGH. What a waste.
On dday, I said I was sorry that he was turning 50 the next day and proceeded to call his family and tell them that the party at our house would be moved and gave them all the OW's address. I told him she could cook his JERK chicken and that I was done!
Thanks fading! I had to laugh a little though at how brave you are! WTG girl!
Just 2 little quick notes to share:
I forgot to mention that last week I checked the mail.....a letter addressed to her. I looked at the return address, felt the envelope and it was her new fucking drivers license mailed to my house. I opened it up (ya, federal offense) started at it for minutes- looking at every detail of her face...called WH, then proceeded to take a lighter to her face again. (I did the same on d-day and she must just now be getting a new one). So....hopefully sometime she'll realize that her license was mailed here and I hope she feels like utter shit. BITCH
Then...WH & I sent the kids off with my folks last night. We went out to eat and half way through the meal WH says "It's happening. She's sitting right over there." I had the instant adrenaline rush and thankfully it was not here although it did look a lot like here. I more distinguished, mature, and skinnier OW- but a lot like her. At one point during the meal I looked up at him and he was looking over and I said, Stop. He said oh, I was looking at the guys side burns. LOL. Ssssuuuurreeeee.
I'm off to bed, later than I wanted to of course.
[This message edited by Whatnow28 at 10:17 PM, October 26th (Sunday)]
Take care of yourself, Sweetie. Be kind to you. Keep your self wrapped in a thick warm cloak of love. Treat your self like the way you would love to be treated. Thinking of you.
Whatnow, although I did fall for it in the beginning, I realised later that the immediate contrition was just empty words. I think it takes awhile for the fog to lift from a LTA WS and for them to feel REAL sorrow and remorse for what they did. I know it did for my H.
I cant believe your H did that at the restaurant!
Honestly if he were mine, and there was a glass/cup of something on the table...
Good for you being the better person, but I am sure that must have hurt.
Ukg, we are leaving in an hour, and yes, its that long awaited Disney trip.
So far so good...
I know words are your part of your living,but you sure do have a way with them.
Take care everyone. We are off to Paris!