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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I I I
Shoestring
♂ Member
Member # 20731
Default  Posted: 3:40 AM, October 27th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Back to surgery. For the last 10 years my FWS and I have been like brother and sister. She had a 25 year EA and PA long distance.

So I turned to food for comfort and solace. I thought this was the way it was going to be in our retirement. She wasn't interested in sex or affection. She always turned me away. So I thought this is it for sex.

All of my fat went below my bellybutton. Now since we have R'ed, we can't have intercourse. Even though I lost 50 pounds, it's still there and the hardest to lose.

So my plastic Surgeon says anyway. Cost, 6 grand to remove it with a tummy tuck.

Yet on the other hand I'm not sure I can do have intercourse anymore with her since the OMM was there the last time she had sex.

Sorry if this is TMI but it's the truth.

How has anybody else handled this problem or one like it?


H (me) 73 Nov 7th
WS (her) 71 Aug 6th
A lasted 25+ years
Maybe all our married life?
M 53 yrs on Oct 2
OMM - Same age as WS
They were Hi school sweethearts
D-day March 27, 2008
Children grown Son 48 D 44


Posts: 656 | Registered: Aug 2008
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 5:24 AM, October 27th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shoestring - I also turned to food for comfort only my rationalization was "as soon as the kids are out of the house it will return". In the meantime, I gained almost 80 lbs. My TMI issue is the same as yours and since his OW were either young and professional or skinny with big boobs, I can't bear to have him get sexually involved with me.

Serious self esteem issues and they weren't that way before Dday. i used to joke about "can you find it?" kind of stuff, now, I am humiliated.

I am trying once again to lose weight and I will get the tuck done at the -50 lb. mark. I even quit smoking so I could have it done.

See, I think FWH is too confident that I won't go anywhere because I don't feel comfortable having sex. The last time surgery came up, he refused to be a part of it. Said he wouldn't even drive me to the hospital.

Have you discussed your physical issue with your wife?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, October 27th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((SoLost))

Well, tribe we had another weekend from hell. Friday night was great. We played cards with a couple we hadn't seen for 15 years. It was like we'd never lost touch. H was being nice, even made the first sexual comment in over 2 months. I thought we were actually going to have a good weekend.

Then I woke up Saturday morning feeling punky. H was deliberately late for his IC appointment and lied to me. Changed his appointment time when I asked if he wasn't going to be late. His appt. time hadn't changed. So I confronted him when he got home and he still lied. I just walked away and went back to my cleaning. ABout a half hour later, I got dizzy on the ladder, so I took my temp. 102. Promptly told H I was going to bed (but I didn't tell him I was sick, you know he doesn't want to hear that) freaks him out. Well, he still got freaked out, but in a selfish way.

I came down a little later and told him I was hungry and was going to make some toast. Did he volunteer to do if for me? Of course not. He was in the middle of making himself some soup, did he offer me some? No. Told me I should be upping my fluids, did he go to the basement and get me something out of the fridge? No. I took a phone message for him later when he was at the bank and got it "all wrong" so he's yelling at me, sick.

Sunday he worked the morning. I felt better, and washed the sheets, disinfected everything and told him it was "safe" to come home. Apparently not in his view because he still refused to even touch me.

He took DD and her BF and I out to dinner so I wouldn't have to cook, which was nice. But made a stupid comment at dinner about how he heard another study that people who use artificial sweeteners gain and keep their weight faster and longer than people who use sugar because it makes them crave sugar. So I asked what he was trying to tell me. And he said "it's not good for you to use that stuff."

We came home and he went to bed. I checked my temp and it was back up. It's still up, but we can't afford for me to miss one day's work. -- Oh yeah, he keeps reminding me of that too, how HE can't afford to get sick because HE's the only one working. I wanted to tell him it was "ok to be sick" when I was carrying the financial load. As a matter of fact he'd "get" every bug that came down the pike -- I assume now to go see his GF, of course. I was the one who couldn't afford to get sick.

But I at least nurtured him, cared. Made sure he had punch, aspirin, soup, tea, company. Whatever he needed.

And it still triggers me that he could put aside his fear of getting sick to be with the whores, but can't compartmentalize it for me. In my nasty thoughts last night it was all I could do to not say it again. That the reward of a 3 second orgasm was worth the risk, but my gratitude and respect aren't.

Next time he gets sick I'm going to the movies!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:27 AM, October 27th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoLost - thinking of you today and sending hugs and support. Is your H aware of your pain as tomorrow approaches. You need to share with him what you are feeling. I honestly believe that an important and necessary part of our healing is having our FWH comfort us as we grieve. Don't wait for him to figure out what day it is or what you may need. This is the time to come right out and let him know you expect him to be with you now. Let him see your grief. Let him feel your pain. I can only say from my POV that had my H not been there for me on the worst of my days, I honestly don't believe I would still be here today fighting for my M. (((SL)))
LH - have a wonderful time. We'll miss you when you're gone.
WN - I loved Mr. LH's explanation. I think it probably is one that a lot of our WS's could relate to.
I know for my H that once he saw the pain and shock and utter disgust in the faces of our children, our friends who knew and my pain and devastation there was no hiding from the truth of what he had done. It is just not possible to lie anymore to themselves that what they were doing during those years was justified. There is too much pain and too many tears and unless they are completely devoid of empathy, it is totally impossible to avoid feeling shame and regret.
Weepy - I'll meet you there and pay for that movie - you just give me a call.
Shoestring - Is your wife in IC'ing and are the two of you in MC'ing. There must be very serious issues for her to have been capable of so much deceit. I think it would help if some of the men who do occasionally find themselves her would check in - I hope some of them see your post and respond. Have you gone to the forum for betrayed men in the I Can Relate section? It might be good for you to check this out. (((SS)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, October 27th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoL. Your post brought tears to my eyes. I know how it is when you can't forget and every memory, conversation, look and heart-stopping moment is tattooed on your brain in Technicolor detail. Today is yet another date for me. We had returned from Egypt (H’s 50th treat), had DS1’s 21st birthday on 25th Oct with M&FIL still up, and on the 27th WH was with OW, the soonest date he could manage. I look at the photos of DS1’s birthday and there is not a single shot of WH smiling. Dday, WH told me at sometime Saturday after midnight. I stayed up all night, getting into the spare bed at around 4am because I was so cold. I didn’t cry until the next morning when I got back from his bf’s house when I started sobbing. WH went to put his arms round me and I shrank away, telling him to not touch me. He then began to cry, saying how it was killing him and he just wanted to hold me. It was like I’d been slapped. I thought “how DARE you fucking cry after what you’ve done”. Hmm No, nothing IS that simple. If only it was. (((((SoL))))) I’ll be thinking of you tomorrow.

WH said, "I hate this."

Bout time he grew a backbone and responded like a grown up. He is still sounding like a recalcitrant teen who’s been caught smoking weed. I like the parallel LostH drew on, it is all about facing the guilt and what he has done, esp to you. But you can’t compare your past relationships with the relationships your H had with the OW’s. He was being deceitful and lying to you. He was not “free” to pursue these women. He was supposed to be married. So again, it comes down to guilty feelings. And what you say about everything screaming at them to STOP and say WTF am I doing is exactly where we have all been. See my post last week: “The klaxon alarms must have been screaming at WH to STOP NOW!” H just says that it was as if it wasn’t really happening. Yeh, right, cake-eater.

Since I had a meeting with MOW, I have not told my H ILY (well, a couple of times maybe), I have not told him I want to stay married, I will NOT wear a wedding ring or ANY of the jewellery he has bought me and pretty often when he says stuff to me, I look at him like the sorry shit he is and say “You said the same thing to her” And as to the immediate “sorry”, of course he was. His little bubble was burst and he was covered in shit. And his la-la land was gone. And yes, I see OW’s doppelganger at the supermarket I go to. Must have seen her three or four times. The first time, the poor woman must have thought she’d had something terrible happen to her, she was loading her car and I just stopped and stared at her. All the while as she put all the shopping in her car, closed the boot, took the trolley to the trolley park, got into her car, started up, reversed towards me and then drove off. I wanted to get out and punch her just for LOOKING like OW!

SHOESTRING, if you want it doing and you are in good health, go ahead and have the skin removed. But then I’m about to make friends with the scalpel!! Meanwhile, as FNF suggests, the guys down in betrayed men might offer some help getting back on track, or even a new track, with your FWW. To me, it sounds like one step at a time. If everything is working in a mechanical sense, then it sounds like you need to take things S L O W. Okay, so you’re 7mths out now. Have you had other intimate moments? I’m taking about being close, snuggling up and being close in bed, talking in bed, doing stuff together and being in each others space? That’s where it starts. Don’t rush things and don’t give yourself a timescale. Have you discussed the sex issue with your FWW? Are you in MC or IC? I’m afraid I can’t offer much else – we went the other way and into hysterical bonding.

Oh weepy. That man hasn’t a single sympathetic cell in his sad body. I’m sorry. Let me just give you a hug. ((((((((weepy)))))))) what an ass. >>>sigh<<<

Sending good vibes to LostH and her family to have a good week.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:12 PM, October 27th (Monday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, October 27th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT. Why cosmetic surgery? I guess I am resenting the aging process. I do not expect surgery to be the answer to everything, but I am sure it will remove some issues that I do have and have had for a long time. I want to look as good as I can with my clothes off as well as on and I want to “look good for my age”. There is no doubt I have aged 6 or 7yrs in the last 2 and it’s mainly due to weight loss from my face. I don’t expect to have happiness etched over the lines, but I would like to take the sad look away. And since DS4, the breast tissue simply isn’t there anymore, so I want the skin filled out, nothing more than a good B-cup as I don’t think I’d be happy with larger breasts on a small frame. I am well aware that he didn’t have the excuse that I’d “let myself go”, he didn’t have the affair b/c OW was better looking or younger. He did say she was “good company” and he liked her as a friend(!!!), but there’s nothing I can do or would want to do to be like her. I actually think she’s even more insecure than I am seeing as she was prepared to carry on for five years hanging around waiting for him to deign to give her crumbs of attention.

I have always had a problem with my looks. And my brain. And my personality. And my likeability. I have the younger, not so clever, quieter, introverted, plain Jane sister syndrome. Think Meet Joe Black film. That struck a chord with me. My sister was the favourite, yet somehow I am the one who organises something and she just tags along. And she’s been quite happy for my parents to come up to us for Christmas year after year b/c she’s so busy – she has a JOB and brought up two kids on her OWN (they're 28 and 26 now sis ...) Fact is, she doesn’t want to make the effort. Just as well I don’t see her that often. I don’t think any amount of therapy will help me there – I know exactly what the problems are.

FWH has gone to the States, back on Friday. Yesterday morning, I suggested he packed his bag in case there was anything that was in the linen basket he wanted to take. Eventually he put the stuff out on the bed and asked me should he take, a bag or a case. Case. Which one. The blue one. He opens it and says, where shall I start. So I take the hint and do it for him. He has a go at folding the shirts while I went off for something and I’m behaving like a cat on a hot tin roof. Couldnt he see I HATED doing it? Later, I took a shower before getting dinner. He brought me up a beer when I was just drying down and watched me through the open curtains. I said I hated doing his packing. He said he knew. Asked him if he knew why. He replied that I would pack for him and he would go and stay with her. I just nodded. I didn’t ask him about how he felt at the time – what could he say? That he felt entitled, that the fact she was his ex-gf meant it was permissible, that it was his reward for being provider for his family? Smug? At what point, if ever, did he feel gulty? He just took everything I did for him for granted. A fucking housemaid. Then he texted ILY from the airport. Before it would have been “just boarding, ring you when I get there”, the numerous ILY’s and I miss you’s would have been sent to OW. And he would have stayed with her the night before and maybe the night he got back. Go and be the big “I am” business director. Fuckwit.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, October 27th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all. I reread my post and cried. I am so sad for that girl. I don't even hardly recognize her. I feel like I am glass and just going to break at any second. I wrote H a letter saying much of what my post said and a bit more detail. I think he read it. He cam to bed 2 hours later and put his arm around me. Whatever. He put his arms around me this morning as well, almost like a mental patient who might break. I just might, so I see where he's coming from. Tonight he lie down with me on the couch and put his arms arond me. Told me he read the letter nad he is so sorry he put me through all of that. he said it a couple times and held me while I cried a bit. Had to get myself together when the kids came around. SOmehow it's just not enough though. I wish I knew what I needed.

Tonight and tomorrow will suck, clear and simple. I remember every second of it like it was yesterday. My world crashing down, my inner self simply no longer existing.

Can't do personals tonight except to tell LH to have a great time in Paris. I am so wrapped up in me and I hate it.

[This message edited by So Lost at 5:35 PM, October 27th (Monday)]


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 4:15 PM, October 27th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((SoLost))))))

Sending you hugs and strength.

UKG,

I just got on since we've been home. We didn't go far from where we live cause we just had the weekend.

It was relaxing and the trees were beautiful.

This week we are leaving on Thur's morn early and camping again!!! And I do LUV it.

Halloween will be our 27th anniversary. Quite a few of our friends are going camping with us, so it should be alot of fun.

You can borrow all the hope and happiness you need.... I really need to send you my rose-colored glasses cause I have seen you and you are beautiful!!! We all are, in our own way.

Welcome to the newbies.

(((( ))))
Group hug!

Lovin


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:11 AM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((SoL))))) Sending you strength to get through the day.

Lovin’, Your anniversary is Halloween??! So there’ll be quite a bit of spooky stuff going on! Hope you have a really good time and Happy Anniversary!

FWH’s b’day is on 30th. He not due back til 31st, so at least I don’t have to think about “doing something” when these days I don’t want to celebrate his or my b’day, Christmas, our anniversary or anything else that I used to enjoy and take it for granted that he did too. Fact was, he couldn’t wait to be with her. M&FIL will be up this weekend and I thought I might book a table at this restaurant we’ve not yet been to. Saves cooking. His last text was from Heathrow. It would appear that his work phone doesn’t work outside the UK as I’ve not had a text from him and he’s not taken his private phone, which does have roaming. I tracked the flight and it landed on time. So, silence until he lands back on Friday. Seems a long time to wait.

This house is full of crap. I pulled out a warm jumper to take DS2 to work (it was frosty this morning) and a brochure for H’s 50th in 2005 at the Four Seasons in Egypt fell out along with photos and stuff about the hotel we stayed at in 2002. They’ve gone in the bin. Everything has been poisoned.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
lovinlife
♀ Member
Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everything has been poisoned.

UKG,
Someone told me once that eventually we have to move on and away from the pain of the past, because it would poison any chance for a future.

I am so worried and sad for you... life is for living, not just getting thru. You deserve to be happy with or without him.

Leaving the past behind was the single most hardest thing I have ever done!! I still have a long way to go till I have forgotten what my FWH did to us and our family... but I needed and wanted to move forward for me and my kids. In doing that, just for me, my H has had to change or be left behind. KWIM???

It is perfectly alright to be happy for you and only you!!

I will be sitting under a star swept sky and sending you "happy" thoughts. Life is just too short to waste.

And yes, Halloween is my Anniversary.... and my goblin and I will be sharing our tricks and treats!

Hoping everyone else is doing well and standing strong!

Lovin


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoLost - I am thinking of you today and sending you many, many hugs. We'll be here if you need us. Be kind to yourself today.
((((((SL)))))))
UKG - I'm worried about you too. You seem to be struggling a lot lately and I wish I knew how to help. I think your plan to go out for dinner is a great idea. I resented anything that resembled celebrating my H and pretending that he was someone special. I do know how you feel. I am lucky in that my H's parents are dead (geez that sounds awful), my SIL and BIL live out of state and I have, for the most part, given up 99% of my contact with any of his family since d-day. That was the price I made him pay - that I would no longer cater to his family on his behalf. This has worked for me. They were a very demanding family and I used to break my back for them and for his mother right up to one month before d-day. It just infuriated me that he could have abused me in that way while I was caring for his mother as if she were my own and while I was off feeding her, caring for her, literally wiping her behind, he was staying at the office to fuck the OW. So I feel quite justified in my current stance.
However, I do worry that you are struggling so much lately even though it does seem that your H is truly sorry, truly loves you and is sincerely trying to save your M. What do you think would help to start to turn your current disillusionment into hopefulness?
It took me a long time to reach that point but I honestly believe I am there now. Lord, I hope I'm not jinxing myself.
I have watched my H make so many changes for the better and he is very consistent with only an occasional slip-up and I do believe this is what helped me to make the turn-around. Fortunately too, we have all but eliminated everything and everyone associated with that past and this is a major piece for me.
I have to agree with Lovin that life is just too short and you deserve to be happy - we all do. I think that is the attitude that helped me too - that I was determined that my H's A would not take from me my love of life and the love that is in my life. I honestly believe it is a choice that we can make - we can choose happiness and we must believe deep in our hearts that we deserve that happiness.
There is another thought that I've had lately that I've wanted to talk about here. It seems that some here have internalized what our H's have done to us and allowed it to affect their own self-esteem. You see, I refuse to look at it this way. We have so many posts that talk about the issues our H's have, FOO issues, self-esteem issues, sexual addition issues, and on and on. We can never forget that their LTA's ARE NOT ABOUT US - THEY ARE ABOUT THEM and therefore we can not allow their choice to affect how we feel about ourselves. When I read the stories here, including my own, and see what utter deceit our H's have been capable of it still astounds me. And everytime I read a new one I am reminded of how literally screwed up THEY are. It is not about us, it is not about us, it is not about us! Yes, we are there victims, their crime was perpetrated on us but their crime is due to their character flaws, their self-centeredness, their low self-esteem.
I had this discussion with my H the other day and it wasn't pretty. If you could see who my H chose as his fucking partner you would be shocked. If I have come to believe that my H's self-esteem is in the toilet, you cannot imagine where I think hers might be, in the fucking sewer. She is truly pathetic and that fact alone has made me look at my H and wonder just how badly he must have been wounded in his childhood to have gone so low. It is why I could never personalize his choice to go down that path.
You have talked about the OW as someone who definitely has issues. Yes, she has big boobs but what about her fucked up head?
And Weepy, I hope it's ok to say this, but prostitutes? This was never about what was lacking in you. This screams out serious, deep-seated issues that go very, very far back.
I wish there was a way I could get this message deep into your hearts and souls. It is not because we didn't fulfill them, because we didn't have nasty tricks to entice them with, or because we weren't women enough. It is because they were so warped, so damaged and so empty within themselves and had no tools to overcome their deep issues and it wasn't until all of their sins were revealed that they were finally able to confront THEIR demons and unfortunately we happened to be in their world when that day happened.
Hugs to all!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
What?  Posted: 12:40 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((SoLost))) Sending you hugs and strength and wishing you a great trip.

Halloween will be our 27th anniversary. Quite a few of our friends are going camping with us, so it should be a lot of fun.

LovinLifeThanks for sharing and a very Happy Anniversary to you. It's good to know about happy R is possible. Also envy you being able to go camping as we had a sprinkling of snow this wkend while I'm visiting a friend in NW Ontario.

I wish there was a way I could get this message deep into your hearts and souls. It is not because we didn't fulfill them, because we didn't have nasty tricks to entice them with, or because we weren't women enough. It is because they were so warped, so damaged and so empty within themselves and had no tools to overcome their deep issues and it wasn't until all of their sins were revealed that they were finally able to confront THEIR demons and unfortunately we happened to be in their world when that day happened.

FnF I wish I was as eloquent in expressing myself as you are. Thanks for this morning's post. It's my inspiration for today.

UKGirl You so often write what I'm thinking! I'm not up for surgery for several reasons but I doubt that it would help me cope with my mental issues regarding the A and after 3 C-sections and TMJ surgery I am working on weight loss for improved health (not very successful at the moment but that's another story).

I know I don't share here as often as I need to... once I start I feel like I can't stop and it's overwhelming.

I have to agree with Lovin that life is just too short and you deserve to be happy - we all do. I think that is the attitude that helped me too - that I was determined that my H's A would not take from me my love of life and the love that is in my life. I honestly believe it is a choice that we can make - we can choose happiness and we must believe deep in our hearts that we deserve that happiness.

Why can't I make this choice? What's holding me back when I know in my head that FnF and LL are totally on target in this respect?
Knowing and doing are so far apart in the spectrum of things just now that I feel in many ways I'm just observing life around me and I don't have the strength to change the smallest things never mind something really important. I feel like such a whiner... I want to cry... I want to lash out... hit something (I was advised yesterday to hit the mattress not the wall)...
This isn't how I saw our/my life at this stage. We made a conscious decision to have our family between 25 and 30 yrs old so we would be young enough to enjoy ourselves when the kids were on their own. I thought that our 30th anniversary signalled the beginning of that enjoyment. Instead... 5 yrs ago this month, he went online to play games for 'stress relief from his job' and started an EA with someone who turned out to be a co-worker and turned to her for validation while I was right there (sometimes in the same room, reading or stitching; or waiting for him to come to bed "in a minute, dear" which turned into a half hour or longer).

Where am I and what am I doing here???


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 1:06 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why can't I make this choice? What's holding me back when I know in my head that FnF and LL are totally on target in this respect?
Knowing and doing are so far apart in the spectrum of things just now that I feel in many ways I'm just observing life around me and I don't have the strength to change the smallest things never mind something really important.

LS,
I ask this question of myself daily. I would hate to think that's it's because i'm a "glass half empty" kind of person. I keep hoping that something will happen or that i will slowly arrive at a place where i am capable of the doing , not just knowing.

FNF,
Just in case i am a glass half empty gal, do you think you could pour some of your positive juice into my glass?


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LS and MIG - It took me a while before I stopped crying over my H's LTA. I still have some of the anger and occasionally I give in to those thoughts of "I didn't deserve this, why did it happen to me." You both are at the early stages especially you MIG so don't be so hard on yourselves.
But I must say that I just could not allow myself to live without joy in my world. I just never saw that as an option for me. I have too many people in my life who bring me a lot of joy and love and even though I always thought that my H was supposed to be the most significant person in my life, once I learned about his LTA, it was necessary for my own survival to place him further down on my "significant others" list and prioritize those like my children and grandson, and my sister, so that I could be happy and experience joy again. Does this make sense? Also, because my H had created this distance between us during his A years, I had grown accustomed to not depending on him and so my needs didn't revolve around him for a good 10 years prior to d-day. I am slowly allowing myself to give him priority in my life and because he is working hard and being loving toward me, I am able to include him on my list of people who bring me joy. But I have lived most of my life believing that I alone am responsible for my happiness and whenever I was dissatisfied in life, regardless of where that unhappiness was coming from, I examined what it was that was making me unhappy and worked hard on making the changes that needed to be made. I applied that to my H's LTA as well. I asked myself what changes needed to be made, by me and by him, in order to find happiness in my M, discussed these with my H and although it was a slow process, changes have been made and as a result both of us are happier in our M.
I also have to say that one of the changes I had to make these past 2 1/2 years was to stop dwelling on what he had done in the past and start focusing on how he was living his life in the present. There has been a dramatic change over time in his attitude, commitment and affection and for that I am so grateful. For me it always goes back to the Serenity Prayer, Help me to accept the things I cannot change, his LTA history, and to change the things that can be changed. I think there is a lot of truth in this for us as LTA survivors. We simply cannot change what has been done. We can only look at our M today, see what needs to be changed in both our H's and ourselves, commit to those things and demand the same of our S's and then commit to moving forward. This is a slow, painful process but happiness in our M is possible IF BOTH PARTIES are commited to making the necessary changes.
So, MIG, I hope this helps to fill your glass somewhat.
Thinking of you and hugs to you both.
ETA - I have always believed that it might have been necessary to move out of my M if I had to and although it was never what I would have wanted, I knew it might be necessary in order to be content and happy in my life. Fortunately, his willingness to change has kept us together but nothing is set in stone and I do keep a part of myself protected and ready to move on if he would ever do this to me again.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:16 PM, October 28th (Tuesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
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Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF -

also have to say that one of the changes I had to make these past 2 1/2 years was to stop dwelling on what he had done in the past and start focusing on how he was living his life in the present. There has been a dramatic change over time in his attitude, commitment and affection and for that I am so grateful. For me it always goes back to the Serenity Prayer, Help me to accept the things I cannot change, his LTA history, and to change the things that can be changed. I think there is a lot of truth in this for us as LTA survivors. We simply cannot change what has been done. We can only look at our M today, see what needs to be changed in both our H's and ourselves, commit to those things and demand the same of our S's and then commit to moving forward.

Do you remember approximately how far along you were past dday when you were able to get to this place?

(((((SoLost))))) Thinking of you today.

UKGirl - I just reread your last few posts and they really, really resonated with me. I feel like we are in the same place. I don't think it is the plain of lethal flatness because there is too much pain and anger as well. I know about the roller coaster thing but this down cycle started in August and I am still in the hole!

Everything has been poisoned.

Yes...all of it is toxic. I can't tell you how much stuff that I thought was sentimental that I have thrown away. I am getting ready to box up all the pictures and put them in the attic so they aren't in my face or I will, very likely, throw them away as well. Someday the kids might want to see them....


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
mindisgone
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Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks FNF,
It's the dwelling and the sadness i can't seem to move away from. My anger is still immense, though i'm working on that in IC.

My first Dday though (prob in large part the reason my anger is so terrible)was 25yr ago. Never fully dealt with and so there was another affair 10yrs later but that he didn't confess to until April 2007 in the process of finally trying to deal with the first.

In the immediate explosion that followed this confession ( i truly lost my mind ) he couldn't handle it and subsequently minimised and lied and continued to do so like a man who was still foggy, as they term it on SI.

He is in IC, and is a very different man but the lies have done their damage and i no longer know truth from lies. I don't know how to do this, to live with all those questions knowing that even if i do have the answers as he insists i do now, i will never be even halfway sure.

It's not possible any longer for me to know, for every question i have 20 answers and only one of them is the truth, but which one?

He has continued to surprise me with deep and sometimes unconscious change but the lies have left both of us broken.
And of course the sheer scope of his betrayals and the selfish cruelty that went with it is , i think, possibly beyond what i can live with.

The "spark" that HS spoke of a while back started flickering almost 2yrs ago and finally died somewhere along the way. It hasn't come back and i miss it terribly. I don't think i can live without that.

FNF, your post are always full of both common sense and a wisdom that i know couldn't have come without a cost. I only hope that i and the rest of us struggling learn the same lessons and gain some of that wisdom , Lord knows we are all aware of the cost.

((((Thank-you FNF.))))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
forgivenotforget
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Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you remember approximately how far along you were past dday when you were able to get to this place?

Honestly I think it has only been in the last six months that I have felt my true self coming back. There were moments when I could sense I was getting there but then something would happen and I'd slip. Eventually over time these would be fewer and of less intensity but more importantly, as time went on, I could believe that my H's changes weren't just his attempt to lure me into a sense of false security but were real. I think this was the major turning point. Believing that my H truly understood the extent of his crime, felt my pain, was committed to doing whatever it took to help me in my recovery took the better part of the first two years.
As I said, I still don't allow myself to completely let my guard down, but I definitely feel that I am getting closer and closer to letting go of all of the pain and awful memories of his past. It will always be a part of our history but I feel that the worst of my grieving is over. Two years is a long time to grieve any loss and you can never put a time on this process and I never tried to do that to myself. As long as it takes is what I would tell myself. But I do think that my need for happiness and love in my life motivated me and the more I experienced the good things in my life, the more I realized that I wanted to reclaim it and it was a good cycle to be on. I basically just got tired of suffering. Plain and simple. I didn't want to be sad anymore and I was making my children sad because they didn't know what they could do to help me out of this cycle and this wasn't what I wanted for them either.
I don't fool myself into believing that I won't have slip-ups in the future. I know I will but I do believe they will not take the toll on me that those in the past have - this is my hope anyway. You'll get there too. Give yourself the time you need. I would never suggest that anyone tries to rush this process. I don't believe grieving any loss works that way. ((((HS)))
Lord knows we are all aware of the cost.

Amen to that MIG - as I've said to my H too many times over these last few years, so much pain and suffering for a nasty piece of ass. It is something I will never ever understand. Amazing what fools these men have been. (((MIG)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
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Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just had to share this story. Tonight my H's aunt and uncle had us over for dinner. They are the only ones that I still enjoy seeing and I love them like they are my own. Anyway, after dinner we were sitting there talking about one of my H's cousins who is getting a D. I asked his aunt what happened and she said, "Can you believe her H had a girlfriend for the last 4 years? I had no idea he was that kind of person."
I sat there and didn't say a word. But I was thinking, I wonder what kind of person she would think my H was for having an OW in our life for 8 years.
You see, there will always be moments like these. There are constant reminders. The best we can hope for is to no longer feel the pain.
Hugs to all!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
mindisgone
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Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can you believe her H had a girlfriend for the last 4 years? I had no idea he was that kind of person."
I sat there and didn't say a word. But I was thinking, I wonder what kind of person she would think my H was for having an OW in our life for 8 years.

God,FNF, moments like these yes, but this one must have sucked the breath right out of you.
May i ask how your H handled that moment??

I basically just got tired of suffering. Plain and simple. I didn't want to be sad anymore and I was making my children sad because they didn't know what they could do to help me out of this cycle and this wasn't what I wanted for them either.

Now this place i do have a hope of getting to..just plain old tired of suffering. And sadly i don't mean this as a joke or to be flippant. Thanks again FNF.

I don't think it is the plain of lethal flatness because there is too much pain and anger as well. I know about the roller coaster thing but this down cycle started in August and I am still in the hole

HS,
This is where i am and have been for a long time now, far too long.I've tried but can't seem to find the right words to describe the feelings or lack of them to my IC. She says i have disconnected but i don't feel that's a completely accurate picture. Any insight from your own IC? It does sound as if you are as , what word to use?, confused, perplexed? or just plain ole fucked up on this stage or whatever it is as i am. If i am off the mark i apologise, my ID is not so far off the mark. ((hs))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
forgivenotforget
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Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

May i ask how your H handled that moment??

Actually we both sat there like idiots bobbing our heads and saying what a shame. Last year this situation would have sent me into a rage on the way home and then I would have cried for two days after. I promise you, there is light at the end of your tunnel. BTW, you are very welcome and thank you for your kind words.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
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