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User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I I I
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know it's not the best linen in the world, but it has the major plus of never having had her nasty ass on it

I love this too- I should save that quote for my own archives.



Your boys are so cute. It's funny but seeing their pics made you more real.

Thanks! I totally understand on becoming more real. It's hard to "remember" people when you have no face to connect to the person. I've only seen a pic of UKG- she's perty!


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cheapest way to do that would be with paint color IMO.

Great idea, when can everyone come over for a painting party?
I've actually been thinking of doing my living room for like 2 years now but never get to do it.


I think my sister has found a bedding set she would like to get me for Christmas...not sure if she got it or if it's still available. She has great taste!


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Last night though, I dreamt I was trying to decide whether I wanted her out or in. Now that I can't figure out. Any ideas?

Fnf, maybe you are trying coming to terms with the unfortunate fact that she will always be part of your past M landscape, no matter what, and you are making your peace with it. You are no longer fighting what happened.
A form of acceptance and hence, a great step forward for you and the M, KWIM?

Well, thats just my 2p.

Btw, Fnf, you have been really supportive to many here (esp the newbies)and I wanted to thank you.

***
Weepy, I have noticed a pattern where you try to reason with and engage with your H, and it drives you bonkers. You appear to be more happy and more peaceful when you are focusing on your self and making things work for you alone. And sometimes this has the added benefit of him then being more of a loving H than a jackass to you.

***
I want to apolgise to the group about something I said a few days ago to Ukg, and which I have been twisting and turning around.

I have little battery power left so will keep this quick.

I said that I was true to myself during the A. This is a lie. I know some people here (like Fnf and maybe HS) who were true to themselves, but I wasnt.

I think I was very untrue to myself, trying hard to be a what a W and M should be. I read very book, studied all the women who had it down good, but always felt like a fake, like I was doing it wrong. So no, I wasnt true.

I am sorry for sounding so pompous in that post.

(((((Tribe)))))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I was very untrue to myself, trying hard to be a what a W and M should be. I read very book, studied all the women who had it down good, but always felt like a fake, like I was doing it wrong.

(((((LostHeart)))))

Please don't apologize or be hard on yourself. I hate to say this but at some level none of us was true to theirselves. We may not have known what our WHs were up to but I think we all know that, in our hearts, we weren't being treated the way we thought we should have been. But, we accepted it. Worse, we worked to try to make it better, to fix it when it wasn't us that was breaking it. I can completely relate to what you are saying. This has been my focus now since August. Why did I allow myself to be treated that way? Why did I work so hard when it should have been obvious that he was not? etc., etc., etc.


I have a lot of catching up to do. You guys are a page and half ahead of me.

Whatnow - where are you on the NE coast (PM me if you want). I might be close to you. If your sister isn't planning on buying you new bedding, can I buy it for you as a "get the skanks buttprint off my bed" present?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF- Hmmm, the dream. I think MIG might have a good bead on it. That you know she won't ever be completely gone so you are saying that she is so insignificant that her "ghost" doesn't matter anymore. That her spirit can be there but it won't matter anymore.

Either that or you are willing to walk away. And, I mean that in a good way. You are at a place of healing of yourself that if "she" (by that I mean any "she") walked in the door and your H didn't push her out you know that you could walk right out the door.

What do you think?

BTW - congrats to the phillies!

BT - I continue to keep your son in my thoughts.

Weepy - When will it end? Well, from what I have read here on SI, it will end when you say "enough"? If he lies about it, what else is he doing? Can you live that way? I have one of the worst histories here on SI and I don't even bother to check. You know why? I am now basing our "R" on him maintaining all boundaries. Can I be with him 24/7? No, (although you might all want to check out LadyV's post to him in wayward...think EO might have a new asshole!! ). However, I know now that I can't take an iota of lies or disrespect. I am holding it together now as he is at least ACTING like remorseful spouse. If that goes, then he is gone. Weepy, you deserve more that this. You do seem so much better when you don't care.
((((weepy))))


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, November 2nd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS- I'm in Maine.....are we close?


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 5:37 AM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy, you deserve more that this. You do seem so much better when you don't care.

And I'm back to not caring. But I'm keeping the boundary of "I won't sleep with a man who prefers video whores to his wife." It's been 10 weeks since we've had sex and that was at my initiation.

Listen to him and to all the other crackpot C's who say "He can't come to you if you keep going to him." Well, that sure didn't work, he just got himself a substitute.... again.

I'm calling a lawyer later for a consult appt.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm calling a lawyer later for a consult appt.

Weepy, as everyone on SI says....it is good to know all of your options. Your H is being an asshat. You need to protect yourself.

Whatnow - I am in the Boston area. Do you ever come this way?



"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm doing really, really well personal healing wise, and I believe a great deal of it has to do with the fact that I realized from Dday that I wasn't the fucked up one(s) in this equation. It really makes me sad to see the "If only I had been (prettier, thinner, younger, smarter, fill-in-the blank)" posts. There is absolutely nothing a BS could be enough of to compensate for a WSs fuckedupedness.

I love this post by Steelergal and as you all know, I have always believed this from day one. I'm copying this today because I am very excited to share something that I heard last night in our final marriage seminar lecture that directly relates to this attitude and maybe if there are still a few who are struggling with believing there is something lacking in themselves, these analogies will help.
The message of last night's lecture was, in short, "My response is my responsibility." It was basically about assuming responsibility for our own choices and not placing blame on others for those choices. I think so many of our WS's have tried to make us feel, to some degree or other, that we hold the responsibility for their poor choices and those who struggle thinking if only they were more --- fill in the blank ---- they could have prevented their H's A. I couldn't disagree more with this thinking.
The presenter offered two great analogies - I just wish I could have taped it because his delivery was so effective.
He said, imagine you walk up to a pile of rose petals and you decide to crush them under your feet only to discover the sweetest, most lovely of fragrances. Then you walk away and discover a skunk and so you decide to crush it under your feet only to discover the most unpleasant of odors. Same action - different results.
What was the difference? The difference was in the properties of the rose petals and the properties in the skunk. Both were crushed under our foot but it was not the crushing that caused the pleasant vs. unpleasant response it was the properties that each held within. We all now are aware of the properties that make up our H's character whether that is FOO issues, sexual addiction issues, low self-esteem, whatever and when they felt we somehow crushed them, they released those negative properties that were theirs alone. They are responsible for the choices they made. My H accused me of being critical, of not respecting him and used this to explain why he had an 8 year LTA. If my H's character/properties were of a purer nature and he felt this way, he would have come to me and discussed with me the issues he felt offended by, he would have been concerned with how he might have been letting me down, he would have tried to resolve the problems he saw in our relationship. He would have insisted on M C'ing. But his properties saw any disagreement between us as an "opportunity" and what he released as a result has left a stench on both of us that we are working hard to rid ourselves of.
The second analogy was similar but to me not as applicable as the first. If the sun beats down on a stick of butter, the butter will melt but if the sun beats down on clay, it will harden. Why? Because the properties of the butter and the clay are significantly different. Our H's A's reveal properties within them and them alone. Their response to whatever was wrong in the M was their responsibility only. Just as we are responsible for our choices now.
Think of the different discussions in the various forums where every now and then you'll read that a BS is thinking of having a revenge A. Is that person justified? I don't think so. Their response to have a revenge A is their responsibility. Just as all of us here responded to our H's LTA's by working our asses off to try to make our M's work. We could have tried to justify a revenge A but the properties within us wouldn't allow that so here we are every day struggling, working, crying, supporting one another in our personal journeys. I am proud of myself and every one you for the character, the very properties that we possess that motivate us to do the right thing for ourselves and our families. We are one hell of a group of phenomenal women!
Love you all.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tough one FNF, but maybe that indecision represents some uncertainty about something else that's going on with you and your H? Anything new or different happening with you?

MIG - I think I have always believed that once I get to a better place in my M that I will have to deal with my hurt and anger toward the OW who I had taken in to my life and my heart as a friend for over 20 years. I think it would have been a lot easier on me if I didn't know who the OW was but to have been someone I considered a friend was a double betrayal that has so many implications for me. I trusted her, I thought she cared about me. I thought she loved my children and I thought by being her friend for all those years, while her son was convicted of drug possession, while her sister was destroying her M and her family and most especially during those years when her H was dying, that she would never have been capable of betraying me. I struggle a lot over the belief that I am expected to forgive her. This is so difficult for me. On one hand, I feel that forgiving her will free me of all of my hurt and pain and on the other, I am thinking no fucking way, let her rot in hell for all I care. But in my heart I know that one day I must come to some kind of peace where she is concerned.
I have really thought about your response and I think this is where I've been lately - that I may be getting closer to making peace with her. Not in person but somewhere deep within. Kind of a letting go of my hatred and anger toward her.
In my dream, I was having a celebration for my H and I invited everyone from the office where he worked and was trying to decide if I wanted to include her. I felt sorry for her in my dream and I was torn between shutting her out because she deserved to be shut out and feeling compassion for her.
I find lately I am thinking about what it must be like to be her. Knowing what she was all those years. Knowing she betrayed herself as well as me. I honestly believe she must be horrified with herself but then maybe I'm only projecting what I think I would feel about myself if I had been capable of such deceit. Anyway, I find that I am hoping I can finally put my feelings about her to rest. Maybe like LH said, I am trying to make peace with it and am finally coming to some kind of acceptance - a letting go of the last of those bitter feelings toward her that keep me trapped in a negative place. I want to be free - free and at peace and I see her at that final "piece" that I need to let go of in order to move on.

ETA - HS I agree 100% too with what you said - "You are at a place of healing of yourself that if "she" (by that I mean any "she") walked in the door and your H didn't push her out you know that you could walk right out the door."
For me, there would be no more reason to stay. My M would be over. If my H or any of our H's could witness our devastation and betray us again knowing how much pain they had already put us through, what would be the point in staying?

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 10:43 AM, November 3rd (Monday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:59 AM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, for anyone who is interested, I found the link to the discussion that I mentioned this morning. Again, it is a Christian seminar so I just want to let you know that in advance, but if that doesn't bother you, it is an interesting concept and I think worth listening to. Let me know what you think.
http://www.loveandrespect.com/content/weekly_Movies_Popup.php?ID=14


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to be free - free and at peace and I see her at that final "piece" that I need to let go of in order to move on.


FNF,
If this is what you want and need then i have no doubt that it will happen, not only because of your huge heart but because you have been earned it. You've worked hard to get to it.


I felt sorry for her in my dream and I was torn between shutting her out because she deserved to be shut out and feeling compassion for her.

Even if it was only in a dream...Damn, you're a hell of a woman!


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have to go to the dr's shortly for new script and flu shot but wanted to thank FNF for sharing the marriage seminar with us and the link today. I bookmarked the link and will check back later.

Thanks for stopping in SteelerGall. It's good to know things are well with you.

WN28 - you are very strong. If I'd had the LTA happen so early in our marriage I don't know how I'd cope. It hasn't been easy to learn of his LTA at 30 yrs either but it's a large part of my staying and trying to rebuild/reconcile.

My H leaves on business tonight until Saturday evening so I'll have lots of time to myself.

{{{ LTA }}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


It hasn't been easy to learn of his LTA at 30 yrs either but it's a large part of my staying and trying to rebuild/reconcile.


lostsuol,
do you think if this had happened earlier in your M that you would have decided to D?


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, November 3rd (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy- Good luck with the lawyer- I agree, good to know your options. Did you ever ask him about returning to MC?


Whatnow - I am in the Boston area. Do you ever come this way?

No, not really. FIL lives in CT but we've only been once- prior to having the boys. We've been wanting to hit a Red Sox game for years but never break down & spend the money.

_______

Thanks FNF for the update on the seminar. I plan to check out the link later when it's quieter.

__________

I find lately I am thinking about what it must be like to be her

I do this regularly- think what she must have been thinking on a daily basis as we ate dinner, spent time with the kids, holidays, etc. WH supposedly never talked down about me, she didn't either so I think she came to like more & more as time went on. I just can't really understand WHAT she was looking for since it was "clear" what the situation was....maybe she was hoping...but I truly don't think she really wanted to be with WH- maybe early on, or maybe she just liked the thrill....I don't get it.

I honestly believe she must be horrified with herself but then maybe I'm only projecting what I think I would feel about myself

I have the constant battle in my head of thinking that OW#2 left the situation okay with everything. WH doesn't believe HOW she could see it that way since she did hurt me & my family so much....but she knew what the situation was, she knew what she was doing- she clearly knew she was getting used, etc. I'm not sure how she can come out of it negatively....but like you FNF, I figure I'm putting my thoughts & views onto her and that's just not possible.

WN28 - you are very strong. If I'd had the LTA happen so early in our marriage I don't know how I'd cope. It hasn't been easy to learn of his LTA at 30 yrs either but it's a large part of my staying and trying to rebuild/reconcile

Lostsol,
Thanks. HS reminded me once that because we are younger & earlier in our M that WH has years to work on his issues & become better. That was really helpful to hear. I think for me it was the fact that I had never pictured myself without him....so even on d-day I had trouble making him stay elsewhere because, he's my husband and that's that...there is no other option, yk? I also truly mean my vows to mean "better or worse"...although I would D if needed, but plan on giving it every chance I have to survive. The other aspect is the children. I owe it to them to at least try too. If I didn't have the children, it may be a different scenario, slightly. AT the same time...I sometimes think people think I'm crazy for staying in the M. WH's IC told me I was really generous to give WH another try....after D-day 2 I called our MC in a panic & he jumped right to counseling prior to our D. I work in the mental health field & have confided in another counselor at my office- he often mentions how he thinks about my situation often and how sometimes "enough is enough". To some degree I think he believes I should leave, but he also admits he doesn't know much about A's. Because I work in the MH field- our MC calls me a "care giver" and sometimes I think I am too much of a giver. I almost sent OW#2 flowers after D-day for god sakes. WTF was I thinking? Anyways...enough of my rambling.


_________


I'm blaming this on you all: I had a dream last night about OW#2, LOL. I woke up laughing because of the recent conversatios on here and the dream I had.....

I had a dream that I was strangling OW#2 on our bed. It didn't go as far as her dying, (too bad) but there was some intermittent strangling. No more talking about dreams!!! LOL.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:20 AM, November 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf: Thanks for posting that link. I did listen to a few of the free movies. But I found the ones posted a little one-sided. I wanted to hear a couple where they tell the husbands how to love their wives in order to GET that respect.

And I'm also interested in the Tough Love aspect. How does that correlate with lying as a behavior. I mean it's easy with the examples he gives of an intervention for an alcoholic or addict to couch it like "I respect you too much to allow you to do this to yourself." I mean how does that fit with lying and complete fabrication?

Does he indicate anywhere in the lectures that the behavior that's keeping them from getting the respect has to stop?

Example: H and I were watching a "Wednesday's Child" segment on the news (I know you know what that is) and a new newscaster is doing them, rather than Larry Kane. H doesn't like this new guy so he says "he ha a lot of nerve asking people to adopt when he does nothing." and I ask him how he knows this guy doesn't do more than just "report" on the children and what's his problem with this guy when Larry did the same thing? His response:

"Larry Kane adopted like 3 of these children. He put his money where his mouth is."

Total, complete fabrication. Out of the blue. What's the point of it?

Now according to what I'm hearing from these lectures, if I challenge his statement, I'm disrespecting him. And to say something like "making things up just makes you look like an idiot and I wouldn't want that for you." Just sounds ridiculous.

Oh and another one. DS comes home the other day after spending the afternoon with dad and says "So why did dad take the Rav4 back? I thought he liked it." I have NO idea what the kid is talking about and said "what are you talking about?" He said his dad told him he'd had a Rav4 as a loaner when his truck was getting fixed and that he didn't like it because he couldn't tow the bikes with it. HE NEVER HAD A RAV4 AS A LOANER. He had a Ford Focus.

Why, Why, Why? Totally pointless. I can ALMOST understand him lying about the affair aspects. Shame, guilt, fear. But this kind of stuff?

[This message edited by weepy at 7:24 AM, November 4th (Tuesday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, November 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now back to me.

I feel much stronger today knowing that I have a plan. I'm going to ask H to go back to MC. Well, I'm going to ask him what he THINKS about going back to MC and if he says no, ask him to think about it some more. Tell him while he's thinking about it, I'm going to do some research, call our ICs, my physician for recommendations and get a list of questions together to interview them before we make any appointments.

If a week from now he is still against us going to MC or doing any sort of self-counseling (like the seminars or workbooks I have), then I will call a lawyer to find out my options. And I won't hide that I've done it. Because if he's unwilling to do any more work on us when it's quite obvious we need it, then it appears to me he doesn't care whether we stay married or things change or we get happy. And I don't want to be miserable any more. Not that getting a divorce is what I want because I don't, but if things don't change. If he doesn't stop lying and sneaking around, if he doesn't love me the way I need to be loved, then there's no point in going on.

We've hit bottom. He thinks things are peachy because he doesn't "want" to cheat on me. That the guy who did that isn't who he is should be enough for me. But he's the same guy he always was, worse during and after the affairs, only without the cheating. It's not enough to make me feel safe.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, November 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My therapist cancelled, so I’m going to find another one. The outlaws have gone, the parents are up on Thursday. I’ve really got my work cut out and the smile is wearing thin. I did get drunk last night (bet you’re all shocked at that one!) and warbled on to the MIL. She seemed to think it was about time it was all put behind us and we looked forward. So I enlightened her about his lying for two bloody years and said that while he continued to do it, nothing was certain.

His ring is back in the ring box by the side of his bed. I asked him why he chose to give it to me at such an awkward moment while we were in the restaurant with his parents. He reached across the table, held my hand and pressed the ring into my palm. What the hell did he expect me to do with it? Eventually I slid it into my handbag. He said that wearing it was obviously another useless symbolic gesture and that it was a waste of money buying it. So I reminded him that it was bought before I found out that he had proposed to OW and had said he’d wear a ring for her, implying that he’d never wear one for me. Not that I cared. Rings actually didn’t hold much significance until I returned mine to him. The not wearing of a ring keeps us at arms length and with the other hand on the exit door. But I am disappointed that he feels the gesture is only for me, he should be wearing it as his “true to myself” ring, true to himself and to me. Fine. I refuse to be bothered about it.
*****

"I respect you too much to allow you to do this to yourself." I mean how does that fit with lying and complete fabrication?

“You are only doing this to yourself when you lie and fabricate and you should have more respect for yourself as well as for me than to do that” Over here, we have two phrases that describe habitual liars, one is Billy Liar and the other Walter Mitty. They both live out film-like scenarios in their heads where they are the heroes. Billy Liar is an immature character who lies mostly for no good reason or to escape being caught for not carrying out a task. Of course it doesn’t work. Walter Mitty is more feeble, his fictional character being strong, strident, heroic. (Um, I think I’ve described my H when he was WH )

I think if you see a lawyer, then at least you will know how the land lies if you decide to take that path. Good luck with that. And I hope, sincerely and earnestly hope, that your H does what’s required at last.
*****
LostH, I don’t think you could ever, ever in a million years, sound, be or act pompous! You were everything you could be to yourself while your WH was carrying on. You were trying to be the person that you are, honest and true to yourself.
*****
FNF
Rose petals (ugh, that name again) and skunks (that would have been more suitable) analogy – well, she was always there inside him. I just hope she’s squished out and gone for good. But he just used the excuses of low self esteem, sense of failure, thinking I didn’t love him anymore (that one makes me so, so angry) etc, AFTER he started the affair. Once he had been back in contact with her, there was no way he was NOT going to have an affair with her; he HAD to find out if she was the person he really wanted to be with. And that became my core problem, the feeling of being second choice and second best. But I’m moving away from the analogy. As to revenge A’s, I’m sorry to say that is one fantasy that is never going to go away . When I was lunching with H’s BF last week, I said as much. And that I wish I’d done it first. But yes, my response is my responsibility. And it was his choice that revealed something very unpleasant that I didn’t think he had within him. So, I guess I married the skunk, and I will never be his Rose. Perhaps I can be freesias instead. They’re less showy anyway. Excellent video, btw.

I am proud of myself and every one you for the character, the very properties that we possess that motivate us to do the right thing for ourselves and our families. We are one hell of a group of phenomenal women! Love you all.

Thanks! Love you too!

I find lately I am thinking about what it must be like to be her

Yep. Do that too. And how it must have been for her to know I had no idea about her, and what I would think when I finally did know. How she must have felt when he left her bed to come home to me. Knowing he was spending Christmas, birthdays and anniversaries with his family and not her. That she was reliant on the crumbs from his cake eating. That she was, in fact, a nobody, even if he told her otherwise. She went from being ecstatically in love and thinking one day she would have the fairy tale ending to realising it was never going to happen. She must have been lonely and, mostly, very sad for a very, very long time. But they were her choices, she knew he was married and she chose to not give a fuck about me.
*****
BT. Holding you in my thoughts. Keep us posted.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:44 AM, November 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does he indicate anywhere in the lectures that the behavior that's keeping them from getting the respect has to stop?

Weepy - I don't know if this link will help but it does deal with the topic of respect when dealing with someone engaged in behaviors like porn, adultery, etc. Of course these are all just short blips and the seminar that I attended didn't cover this in depth. That was one of the things about this seminar that was tough for me because it didn't deal with M's that were trying to overcome serious issues. It was similar to the kind of seminar that Marriage Encounters lead - you know, how to make a good marriage better. But I do think there were some very legitimate points made and I'm very glad that I attended them. I'd love to attend a lecture where the focus was on couples going through the kinds of issues we are all dealing with. Maybe I'd send an e-mail to this site and see if they offer that. Here's the link:
http://www.loveandrespect.com/content/weekly_Movies_Popup.php?ID=4


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, November 4th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I asked him why he chose to give it to me at such an awkward moment while we were in the restaurant with his parents. He reached across the table, held my hand and pressed the ring into my palm.

UKG - This made me so sad because it was such an inappropriate gesture at such an inappropriate time. Was he looking for sympathy? Sounds to me like that's possible since he did this in front of his parents. "Woe is me, see how broken I am."
I think one of the hardest things for these guys to do is to come out of their egocentric world. They have been so absorbed in themselves for so long that coming out of that, I believe, is one of the greatest challenges they face.
I said that I can't imagine what it must be like to be the OW but I can't imagine either what it would be like to be our H's feeling the shame that they do, knowing how they violated the very people they are supposed to love and protect. Knowing that anyone who has discovered their secret thinks differently about them now. It must be awful and that is why I think it is not uncommon for many of our S's to indulge in self-pity once they are outed.
I can't tell you how many times I see this in my H. It's like he sometimes forgets who the real victims are and thinks only of himself and his distress. When I call him on this he does respond but even one day last week we had an incident and I couldn't believe after all we've been through that he still can slip into this self-pity mode.
BTW, sorry about the IC. Hopefully you will find someone you can relate to. Why have you decided to look for another instead of waiting to be rescheduled with this one?
Also, is your H still going to IC? Sounds like he might need this because I think this latest incident points to his own depression and defeatist attitude.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
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