Okay, weepy. Have you tried my tactic? If he lies, he lies to himself cos I donít believe him anyway. I simply put myself into this strange place which somehow throws it back to him. I will not be affected. AND, if I suspect heís off seeing some OW or worse, HER again, he is history. Seriously. And Iíve made that very, very clear.
Of course I've been there and it has prevented him from ever telling me the truth because "why bother, you don't believe it anyway." And he's right.
I think what I have to do is stop trying to bash HIS head against a wall to see the truth. That to me is sooo frustrating.
Just yesterday , he asked me when DD had stopped throwing up the night before. I said "we had this conversation last night when you woke up and asked me." Instead of saying "I must have still been asleep and didn't really hear you" he says "You're delusional. It never happened."
And he's got a million of them. So, if he doesn't come straight home on Mondays, how would I know? HE can call when he gets here. I can make him call from the house phone so I know he's there, but he has 4 hours of complete freedom to talk to whomever, go whereever, do whatever. And if he was doing something he shouldn't be, it would just manifest itself in anger. And since he's angry about so many things, he can just pick another one to blow up about. And I will NEVER know the real reason he's acting that way.
We just went through that for almost 3 months of constant arguing and extreme anger and no sex. Gee, what does that remind me of? When I told him that and I asked him if he was involved with someone or WANTED to be, he turned it on me. That his anger was about me treating him like a POS, not trusting him, hating him. So he felt he had the right to hate me, treat me like a POS, ignore my needs. WTF is that about?
Gotta run, bus duty. I'll be back later.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I think there is a lot in there to think about.
FNF - thanks for the two DL posts. I had read the one about "if you loved them, if you loved yourself" before and thought it was very appropriate not just to LTAs, but to ALL of us. It made me think about some of the ways I have treated myself and allowed myself to be treated. But it really does peel back the illusion of "love" in the affair as, in general, the acts of an affair are not loving at all.
The DL "mirror" post is very insightful and definitely applies to my H. Unbeknownst to me, he had some very serious self-esteem issues that he was working out with the two LTAS (the whole trading down to feel superior, the KISA on the sex front, etc, etc) So he was just creating a mirror of who he wanted to be. I think the Dorian Gray analogy is a good one. They are painting a picture of themselves that is eternally young and beautiful meanwhile the "real" person is getting older and uglier by the moment. Must be pretty brutal when they confronted with the old, ugly self!
Weepy, I don't know what to say. No matter what you do, he is angry and ugly to you. He has an answer for any volley you serve. What are you going to do for YOU so that YOU can live a fulfilled life?
BT - any suggestions on anything I can read before the Imago weekend? (I have already read Getting the Love You Want)...
Love should not be considered as a feeling of affection and caring. It's part and parcel of it, but the preeminent expression of love is devotion, loyalty, commitment and fidelity.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:52 AM, November 25th (Tuesday)]
I'm thinking of it like when I went on Atkins, how long it took for me to stop missing sugar and white food. (For a while I was even dreaming of fruit and I don't even like fruit!) It wasn't until I started seeing the effects of my new diet to realize it was good for me. Same thing with this I guess.
It's just that I don't trust he's changed fundamentally. The anger that erupts every time he's done something he knows he shouldn't be is classic A behavior. It will trigger me until it stops. I believe he won't cheat again. But where are my boundaries on other behavior.
I look at the "My Response" movie at least once a week. Trying to grasp the "my wife doesn't let me get away with blaming her" and wonder how in the world she does that. What does her response look like? When I tell H to stop blaming me for his behavior, he looks at me like I'm crazy... of COURSE he has every right to behave badly in response to my actions. Especially if they're "wrong" in his head.
Look, sometimes I do things my way and I know he's going to get angry, but it's just MY WAY, NOT to offend him. For instance... I get the boys' money orders every month for their rent. I can get them for free, why should they pay an additional $5 or $10. H thinks it teaches them responsibility. He thinks I'm undermining his "authority" by doing it. Why? They get me the rent money. I just pick up money orders for them. But he can get hugely angry over something that simple. But I won't stop because I believe I'm right. And I'm not doing it TO HIM, I'm doing it FOR the boys. How do you defend against that kind of thinking?
I'm home today. I told him I was going to work because when I left yesterday, the boss said something about a meeting this morning. WEll, he cancelled it, so I didn't have to go in. I'll work tomorrow instead. H is upset because they're taking advantage of me and I'm being a doormat for them. Again WTF?
So many times when I ask him "why" and "how" he responds with, I knew she was safe - I would never have left you for her. There are times when he says this that I have to leave the room because I am afraid of my own rage.
Of course I heard the same thing... "I was never looking for a relationship. That's why the hookers at first. OW just filled in for the hookers because she was free. I never saw her as a replacement for you, ever." Yeah, but the fact that she was the "chosen" one will never change. I was in his bed every night. On the couch 3' away every night. With him 24/7 on weekends and holidays, but yet, he'd bundle himself up in 10 degree weather and haul himself downtown or to her house when he wouldn't even carry out the trash for me because "it was too cold". Hard to see that kind of behavior in a "funhouse" mirror. Maybe if he'd had daily contact with her in some other setting, more convenience, but to tell me he was going to get cigarettes and be gone for an hour while he saw her and came home like nothing? That's a whole different animal. That's enjoying "getting over" on me. His A contained a whole lot of spite and anger AT ME. Whether it was because he couldn't face it at himself or not, it still was directed AT ME, AT OUR KIDS.
But I do have tons to do since I'm going to work tomorrow and not today, so I'm signing off. I'm going to bake away my frustration!
It wasn't until I started seeing the effects of my new diet to realize it was good for me.
Our cookie exchange is the 2nd Sunday in December and I have to decide on two recipes. One is definately a death by chocolate cookie. The other might be lemon or divinity or a shortbread. Haven't decided yet. Maybe I'll make them all. (evil)
I really, really think H and I would benefit from a loveandrespect encounter. I really do. I wish I could get him to watch the damn 2 minute movies.
I wish I could get him to watch the damn 2 minute movies.
One of his worst traits... he's the ultimate authority on everything. He KNOWS another MC isn't going to help us, or Retrouvaille or another book.
See all that has to happen is for me to stop looking at him like he's a POS. Then life will be wonderful again.
And tonight I get to ask him who this Laura B is who's number is here next to the computer and who's address he looked up on AnyWho last night. But I don't get to ask right?
But I don't get to ask right?
"Are youse two going whiff us?" "Bowff of us are going."
sorry...this made me laugh as I know the type.
ETA: why can't we post pics? Are there rules against that?
[This message edited by hurtshirley at 3:09 PM, November 25th (Tuesday)]
on a positive note- my triggers have been nil- MC was almost boring for week #2 so WH & I have been in a good space at least. It is interesting to see how he reacts to me sick- he doesn't offer anything, isn't empathetic really but is supportive when I ask for something & is listening to me. I feel like I'm teaching him here... I actually told him I "wanted him to baby me like I was his wife". LOL. He jokingly called me spleeney at which point I reminded him that I gave birth to his 2 children without pain meds, haha.
Gotta love em.
[This message edited by Whatnow28 at 4:43 PM, November 25th (Tuesday)]
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
I can't think of anything to read beyond Getting the Love You Want. I really hope it turns out to be a great experience for you two.
Do you have a big enough scanner?!!!!
Told him I knew the name sounded familiar. I think she left shortly after he started. Oh well, opportunity lost.
And asking him why? Why call her? Is useless. I'm sure she was attractive to him or he depended on her for something at the office, so a connection was born. I'll just keep my radar up.
On a sad note, my friend with cancer passed last night. The kids are broken up. H is torn up. Today would have been her 57th birthday. WE used to kid her because she was the "old" one of our group. I was the "baby".
We're ok, but the day after Thanksgiving is going to suck.
Boy, have I missed you lot!
Nice to be back.
You and your boys have been in my heart. Hope the tests go well today.All the best, dear friend.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.