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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:46 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom -

Why would a person - after admitting to an affair - decide to go to IC & MC and continue to lie? Why? What is the point?

To save their own pride, or what little of it still exists. Telling the truth to the IC and MC is admitting you failed. And early on, it was incredibly difficult for me to open up about those failings. I had already been caught stripping myself of any integrity I had. Now I had to go and tell someone else I was a fraud and a failure. For a much pain as a BS goes through, a WS goes through the same or more despair.

And how NOW can I believe he is telling the truth.

For me, it was about consistently displaying proof that what I said made sense. Phone bills with no questionable numbers on them. Blackberry left in the open and not strapped to my body 24/7. Open access to email with no fear of something bad coming in. The more those things showed I was focused on my BW, the easier I made myself believable.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 5:14 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you listenclosely. H is doing all of the those things now - I guess it just may be time.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question......when you were at the height of your PA, did sex become the only thing that you wanted or needed from the op? Did the emotional part of it even matter any more once you knew that you getting the free sex?

And if sex was the big draw at this point, would you stay for only the sex, or leave shortly after the sex act was completed? Did you still feel the need for lengthy conversation or did it become a slam, bam thank you type thing as you headed for the door.

[This message edited by TICKED OFF at 11:23 PM, January 5th (Monday)]


Posts: 2386 | Registered: Sep 2005
WantingtheTruth
♀ Member
Member # 20889
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, January 5th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

listeningclosely,

I appreciate your thoughtful response to my questions summarized as:

Anyone among the WS's that had all of this going on and that can help me understand what I am dealing with? This is not like an affair or even serial affairs. How can someone I have been with for 20 years become someone so cruel and emotionless that I do not recognize him? Can I ever expect that he will face any truths or ever feel any remorse for the pain and destruction of our family?

You indcated that a Ws needs to see the consequnces and suggested the 180. This is not a part of the equation. My WS (before I knew he was a WS) left me in June. Once confronted with 1 OW (the only one I had found by August), I tried to get to the truth, asked for e-mail passwords, time to talk, etc. He told me he would rather go through a divorce than try to rebuild trust with me.

I realize I am grasping at straws and I am hoping for the impossible in expecting any truths ever. There has been so much time and hurt since I had to discover everything on my own that there is no chance of recovery. I just beleive it would help me heal, and that he would be better for it also, if I could regain some small level of respect for the man I thought I was living with and loved and that it mattered enough to him to set me free with the truth rather than holding me hostage in his shadows with the glimpses of the truth that that I have.

I know deep down that I have all I will get from him which is no truth and no remorse from him and that this will have to be enough.


The truth is easy to remember.
BW, 53, Divorcing WH
WH, 49, No truths, in denial
Married 14 years, together 20 years. Who is this man?

Posts: 91 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Georgia
LostatSea4
♀ Member
Member # 21497
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really need some help in understanding today. WS has been fence sitting since Labor Day, I've tried to push him off several times with D but no luck and can't afford to move forward without D.

WS and I have been so called "friends" the past few months, being civil, polite to each other etc. We had a family meeting Christmas Eve, My oldest DS19 has told him he does not like OW who's 21, said she's shady and a cheater. DS14 also said he didn't care for her but wasn't as blunt as other DS.

Since that time WS and OW have been in a few fights about her OM and misc. lies but they are still together.

Since Christmas though, DS19 & me are like the enemies in the house. He is constantly yelling or trying to find things to yell about. He told DS he hates his GF, she's whiney and DS told her it's better than cheating.

I don't understand why all the anger all of the sudden after so many months? I have been extremely nice and do not argue back since it's makes everything worse and I'm having a hard time dealing with all the anger. I swear our whole house is like the Jerry Springer Show.


R takes not one but two!
BS-me WS-him
Too many to talk about.

Posts: 992 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: SE
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:25 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WantingtheTruth -

I know deep down that I have all I will get from him which is no truth and no remorse from him and that this will have to be enough.

Not quite, I don't think. what you need to do is to work within yourself to get to the place where you understand (and more importantly believe) that none of what happened or what your WS said was caused by you. You are the same person you thought you were all along. Just as a FWS cannot allow their self esteem to be defined by others around them, you cannot let the words and actions of your WS define you either.

IC can help tremendously in this area. I hope in time you can get that strength back within you.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostatSea -

I don't understand why all the anger all of the sudden after so many months?

The walls of your WS's fantasy are starting to break down and crumble. It was one thing when you were challenging him. Of course you don't like OW - you're not supposed to. But now the kids are challenging your WS on his fantasy woman's character. So now he must fight with the kids to protect the fantasy. His anger at you is probably increasing as well, since you are in his eyes "turning the kids against him and OW".

He is being backed into a corner and it's not a pretty place to be.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
LostatSea4
♀ Member
Member # 21497
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can see this now with you pointing it out to me. If his walls are crumbling, would this be a good sign or will he continue to push us away and be distant.

I have been doing the 180 as you know, but I so just want to tell him that I am still here for him, I am not the enemy and love him but unsure if this is a good idea or will make things worse.


R takes not one but two!
BS-me WS-him
Too many to talk about.

Posts: 992 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: SE
LostatSea4
♀ Member
Member # 21497
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are also right about turning kids against OW, he thought this for a long time until I pointed out that she "self-destructed" herself in their eyes. I did not have to do anything but sit and watch. He was silent to this comment.


R takes not one but two!
BS-me WS-him
Too many to talk about.

Posts: 992 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: SE
LostatSea4
♀ Member
Member # 21497
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry Double Post

[This message edited by LostatSea4 at 10:42 AM, January 6th (Tuesday)]


R takes not one but two!
BS-me WS-him
Too many to talk about.

Posts: 992 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: SE
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostatSea -

If his walls are crumbling, would this be a good sign or will he continue to push us away and be distant.

It's both a good and a bad sign. It's good that his eyes are being opened to the reality around him. It's good that he is being forced to confront the fact that what he thought was bliss wasn't real.

It's bad because he's likely to remain angry and harsh until he runs out of options. Until the total fantasy has been ripped to shreds. How long this takes will vary by WS. But until it has been totally unearthed he's likely to remain pretty harsh.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
WantingtheTruth
♀ Member
Member # 20889
Default  Posted: 7:19 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely,
I saw your post to LostatSea4. Will the walls of the fantasy crumble at some point of a WS that has removed himself and there is no contact? This is going to be a long and costly divorce due to accumulated assets over 20 years. WS is a very selfish man who has been planning his exit.

How can any reality of the situation seep in with a WS during the divorce process?


The truth is easy to remember.
BW, 53, Divorcing WH
WH, 49, No truths, in denial
Married 14 years, together 20 years. Who is this man?

Posts: 91 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Georgia
maddy
♀ Member
Member # 21812
Default  Posted: 7:26 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my WBF is getting very frustrated b/c he feels like he can't do anything right. i feel like he's still doing stupid inappropriate things that are uncalled for for anyone in a relationship, let alone one that's been dealing with and A.

i happened to just call him out on some emails from a 23 yo female co-worker that has a boyfriend. they weren't bad, necessarily, but this girl seems to have a crush and is fishing around about him. she's asking personal details, asking about me and OW, etc.

i'm not comfortable with this. he doesn't see what's inappropriate about it but has no problem not talking to her anymore. he wants to print out the emails and bring them to his IC to see if he really just doesn't see it. i say, i don't care what IC says, i'm not okay with it.

i guess my question is 2 part. what's considered appropriate friendship w/ opposite sex - espcially since he only has female friends? am i crazy to be uncomfortable with this? and the second part is, what di i do about him not feeling like he can do anything right? do i need to do anything at all? or just wait and see? i've set some pretty high standards and i wonder if i've set them too high.


Posts: 475 | Registered: Nov 2008
LostatSea4
♀ Member
Member # 21497
Default  Posted: 9:00 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LC, as I sit here crying you have helped me more than you'll ever know. WS just left, him and DS got into a huge argument, it's been coming for a while. He told WS he might as well call himself a HO since he likes to run around with one.

WS packed a bag and told me I win. I told him it was never a contest, I'm not into playing games. My only mistake was wanting my marriage. He didn't say another word, he just left. Probably to OW house is my best guess.

DS was afraid I was going to get mad at him but I just told him that I loved him and I'm not upset with him. I can't be upset with my DS for having morals even if WS left.

Hopefully it's unearthed soon, the stress is getting unbearably for both DS and myself. Thanks again!


R takes not one but two!
BS-me WS-him
Too many to talk about.

Posts: 992 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: SE
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WantingtheTruth -

Will the walls of the fantasy crumble at some point of a WS that has removed himself and there is no contact?

Unfortunately, the answer is maybe. But others here have cited the poor track record of M's between affair partners. When the reality of a full time relationship with the OP hits, warts and all, I'd find it hard to imagine the fantasy not crashing down around both people.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
ohpuhlease
♀ Member
Member # 13679
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For a FWS who is in R, or has R'ed, how does it feel when your BS can hold your face in their hands, look you in the eye and say...

'I love you. I trust you. I know you will keep 'us' safe. We are going to be better than just okay...we are going to be solid.'


Those who know others are intelligent. Those who know themselves are truly wise. - Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching


Posts: 5714 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: *Proudly Canadian...Eh!*
WantingtheTruth
♀ Member
Member # 20889
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely,
My situation does not just involve an OW. Contact, calls, texts, trips to see, with several other women, dinners, flowers, gifts,then mix in calls to escorts, on-line porn chats, etc. I was not aware of ANY of this before he left me.

At this point, I am almost convinced that I am dealing with a STBXWS with a long standing but recently escalated love/romance/sex addiction.

He has told so many lies but he seems to actually believe his own lies. I do not think he is settled in with one OW. Rather, I think he is a "playah" with some real deep seated problems.

Not sure if there is anyone that can help me understand this. How can I be clueless for 20 years?


The truth is easy to remember.
BW, 53, Divorcing WH
WH, 49, No truths, in denial
Married 14 years, together 20 years. Who is this man?

Posts: 91 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Georgia
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H hates SI. Well, maybe not hate, but he thinks it makes me wallow. That attitude totally pisses me off.

He can't understand why I am still asking the same questions I asked 4 months ago. He can't understand why we are not farther along. Found out about the affair in May - and he remained in contact with her until Oct 7th.

He says that the affair wasn't continuing - and that in that time - we were working on our marriage as we were going to MC (and he was lying)

I handle things very well, but still have anxiety and need to talk about things sometimes. This does not happen everyday. It happens once a week usually.

Two days he got so upset that we weren't farther and I was still asking the same questions that he literaly shut off and said he was done and would leave the next day. I know this was just a PA way of getting me to stop (why not just ask me to stop for tonight) Of course he didn't want to leave. But all this just throws me off and makes me scared to move forward.

I understand that WS / FWS get exhausted and upset too. And that things are never fair. But what do you take of his behavior - it scares me.

In every other way he is helpful - transparent, changed jobs, etc.

I just feel bullied to get "over it" when he does that.

What's your take.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
Elle_47
♀ Member
Member # 10455
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question......when you were at the height of your PA, did sex become the only thing that you wanted or needed from the op? Did the emotional part of it even matter any more once you knew that you getting the free sex?

And if sex was the big draw at this point, would you stay for only the sex, or leave shortly after the sex act was completed? Did you still feel the need for lengthy conversation or did it become a slam, bam thank you type thing as you headed for the door.

That's a tough one. I don't separate sex from emotion, and sex represented physical "validation" - part of the rush, the "hit" of the A. I wasn't there for just sex, I was there to get validation in any way possible, so whether it was through sex or just attention from the OP, it didn't matter. It depends on the individual; if they can separate sex from anything else then yes, you can have a sex-only A. I don't know if this helps or not.


Turns out sometimes you have to do the wrong thing. Sometimes you have to make a big mistake to figure out how to make things right. Mistakes are painful, but they're the only way to find out who you really are.

Posts: 721 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Canada
Elle_47
♀ Member
Member # 10455
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Roccodom - Yes, it can be tough for the WS, especially when it feels we're answering the same questions over and over. But I have no patience for an attitude like your WS's, especially not at this point. If he didn't go NC til October, then you didn't start R til October full stop. He's trying to manipulate you and force you to go back to how things "were", but there's a hell of a lot of work to be done between now and then.


Turns out sometimes you have to do the wrong thing. Sometimes you have to make a big mistake to figure out how to make things right. Mistakes are painful, but they're the only way to find out who you really are.

Posts: 721 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Canada
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