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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, January 28th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

truetrainwreck -


Why is the temptation for the OP so strong after the fog is lifted?

For me, there was a difference between recognizing the pain I caused and the fog totally lifting. I knew on D-Day how badly I had hurt my BW. But it still took five months to clear my fog.

In my case, it wasn't xMOW as a person that I was struggling over. It was the positive attention that offset my low opinion of myself that I felt withdrawal from. And of course I made the deficit greater because I ensured that positive affirmation would be the last thing on the mind of my BW. So early on, it was very rough.

The only way for me to break the cycle was to learn to believe in myself, and to give my BW a reason to believe in me as well.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:45 PM, January 28th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

truetrainwreck, I responded to your question in Recon.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
sadnews
♀ Member
Member # 22235
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

New Question for WHs:

I believe that my WH's A was caused by a midlife crisis, combined with the attention of OW, who knew him back in his younger (glory) days and treated him like the young man he once was. She has no kids, no job, and could basically shower him with attention and flattery.
He does not admit to ever falling in love with OW. He does admit to falling out of love with me around the time the A started though.

We are trying to R. We are in MC. He has NC with OW now. He basically has no free time, so I know he's not seeing her. Whether he's calling her from work or not, I have to believe him when he says no.

Will he ever fall back in love with me again?

Other WH's out there: Did you fall out of love with your wife, and if so, did you ever fall back in after R?

I'm not sure if it's okay to post this question in an existing thread or if I was supposed to start a new thread. So apologies if I did it wrong.

[This message edited by sadnews at 8:40 AM, January 29th (Thursday)]


Posts: 731 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: USA
Devestatedx5
♀ Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you (((Listeningclosely))) and (((1DLW))).

I worry since he has no one to talk to. He doesn't want anyone to talk to except me, and he hasn't ever broached the subject of his feelings about that night.

My fear is that the subject of his feelings about this may not be a scab, but an ever increasing infected boil. I hope I'm wrong.


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
krome
♂ Member
Member # 20739
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sadnews - "Other WH's out there: Did you fall out of love with your wife, and if so, did you ever fall back in after R?"

I loved my wife all along - before, during and after. I recognized her many wonderful qualities, but couldn't deal over the long term with a couple of significant personality flaws that she has which clashed big time with my couple of my significant personality flaws. I pushed for "doing something" about our issues and she "wasn't interested" in doing counseling or anything else (she didn't see the problems we had as being a problem for her, and I wasn't able to adequately express why they were problems we both had to deal with). While wallowing in my own mixture of anger/resentment/rejection I made the mistake of thinking I could get the missing pieces I needed elsewhere (while always hoping she would come around and be open to addressing the problems in the marriage). I never stopped loving her. And yes, I know I was absolutely wrong in what I did.


Posts: 191 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Northern Illinois
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sadnews -

I'm not sure if someone can fall "out of love" with a person and then "back in love".

I am firmly convinced I have always been deeply in love with my wife. If I did not have a love that deep, then I would have turned and run away after D-Day and would not have been so determined for R to work for us.

In hindsight, I know I never truly loved xMOW. I was addicted to the ego stroking she gave that offset my own low opinion of myself. But that was not love. That was a craving for external affirmation.

What I feel for my BW needs no affirmation. It simply exists.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostatsea -

Total and complete fog. The only thing that cuts through it is prolonged NC and full focus on the M.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

aries -

Each OP is different. When I said goodbye to xMOW, she let me go. Of course, she had multiple other AP's to turn to in her "stable" so she felt secure.

As others have posted here, they have had AP's who have pursued the WS for long periods of time using quite desperate measures.

All you can do is focus on each other, your healing and facing your challenges as a team.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
aries61
♀ Member
Member # 21109
Default  Posted: 3:00 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Listenclosely....Your always there with such great wisdom and support


Me (BS) 48
H (WS)47 (Broken)
Two girls 17 & 20
Married 21 Years
Trying to Reconcile
MC and Ic
D-day 09/08 LTA

Posts: 115 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: florida
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He has NEVER broached the subject with me. I would like him to "open up to me" and feel safe and secure in sharing.

It is extremely difficult for me to start talking about the A itself. I want my H to ask me.

I can talk about communication issues, about our M, about basically anything. But the A itself is difficult.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why is the temptation for the OP so strong after the fog is lifted?

I think there are two fogs.

Fog #1 is the deliberately blinding of oneself so that you can actually go through with saying and doing things you know are wrong.

Fog #2 is the lingering - for want of a better term - "infatuation" with the other person that was cut off by external factors, not a "breakup".

For me, Fog #1 lifted easily. Fog #2 is the one I struggle with. For all that I understand the hurt I caused, I have to stick to NC to not start anything up again. If xOM and I had decided on "breaking up", then yes, it would be like a "normal" breakup, where time passes and you go back to being acquaintances or friends. For right now, that is not possible yet.

I don't know how it works with an A where the A died by itself, instead of being stopped externally.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 11:12 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Could you WS's please tell me why the attention, affirmation & ego stroking from your wife meant nothing and you needed it from someone else??? Can someone please help me to understand why that is?

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
no1spaz
♀ Member
Member # 22525
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nothereorhere:

For me it was the years and years of lack of support on my H's part that brought me down as a woman. Especially after I had our first baby and almost lost my life (it would have been an honor).

It just seemed for me to be a little too late for him to start paying attention once thing got to be at a critical level. He never listened when I gently spoke my needs.

We're working on that now.

[This message edited by no1spaz at 11:22 PM, January 29th (Thursday)]


Me - 39yrs FWS (2 OM)
Him - 43yrs Mad Hatter (one revenge A w/MW)
Married 15yrs
2 Kids - 8 & 5
Continuous D days since '05
NC since 12/29/08
Reconciling through IC/MC

"A good marriage takes work but a bad one takes more."


Posts: 255 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: So Cal
nothereorthere
♀ Member
Member # 20530
Default  Posted: 12:21 AM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you no1spaz. That would make sense if I wasn't giving him any validation, attention, etc. But in our case, I was dealing with my Dad being very ill & dying, which only made me express my love for my husband more then I already did. Dealing with losing someone to death makes you realize what you have and how much it means. So here I was expressing my love to my H & telling him how important he was to me while dealing with my Dad dying & my H turns to someone else instead of supporting me. I can't wrap my mind around that.

Posts: 81 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 6:19 AM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere

Sometimes it's because we think our spouse has to feel that way. I think we hear the words, but don't "feel" them.
Someone new doesn't have a history with us, doesn't love us, and yet they still find us attractive. i think that's what strokes the ego.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
whyamistillhere
♀ Member
Member # 22471
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Everyone, I have seen some posts in relation to this, but was looking for specific advice. After the honeymoon phase of our relationship the passion definitely died down like it tends to do. We had good sex even through the A.

Soon after the A turned PA (I didn't know it at the time), I kicked him to the curb for about a month separation. I knew he "met" someone during our separation, but we decided to work out our problems and he broke it off. Three weeks later was when I found out he met the OW at least a month before our separation.

Our sex life was slow when we got back together, but he had a bad knee (legit), and a lot of stress (also true). Then dday 3 weeks ago. We are still having sex about once a week, and that just doesn't cut it for me. There is very little passion coming from him, and I can't help but feel rejected. He is not that into sex. Says he is getting old, doesn't know what happened to his sex drive. And he has admitted to me that he is hesitant to have sex with me because he has never felt so intimate and connected with anyone like he has with me. Like he is afraid of that kind of closeness. Is that bull?

SO I guess my concern is if this is fallout from the A? We are intimate. Cuddling and such. R is going well as far as I can tell. I know he has his moments where he is unhappy, because of my insecurity from the A, but things seem to be going well. There is just NO passion at all and I would love the opinion of WS's. It may not be A related at all, but I was wondering how your emotions toward sex were after dday. I don't know, maybe he just isn't happy and doesnt want to R, but once again is pulling away so I have to be the one with balls again. Opinions? Thanks! I'm confused and my ego is bruised today.


Posts: 84 | Registered: Jan 2009
toonice
♂ Member
Member # 19862
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nothereorthere

Sometimes it's because we think our spouse has to feel that way. I think we hear the words, but don't "feel" them.
Someone new doesn't have a history with us, doesn't love us, and yet they still find us attractive. i think that's what strokes the ego.

FWIW; this was the explanation my FWW gave me when I asked her this question.

Her belief is that I did all that for ME, so I'd feel good about myself as a H. (She frequently twists things around like this - I think she spends way more time thinking about what she believes I'm feeling (99% of the time, wrong) than she does feeling her own feelings).

Quite infuriating.

You can bet that I now put almost zero effort into stroking her ego now that I know how little it means to her.


Stronger than reason, stronger than lies, the only truth I know, is the look in your eyes.
BH(42) FWW(41; 8+ OM/OW, 5 year LTA)
M: 16yrs, 2 kids DS16, DD13. d-day 6/17/2008 (after 9 months of MC+gaslighting).

Posts: 4898 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: CA
brokenbutstrong2
♀ Member
Member # 22446
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I may be posting this in the wrong place, but I am struggling today. What exactly is a BW supposed to look for as far as the fog goes. I have read the healing library, but the idea of him being in the "fog" for a while scares me. I am scared he will start "not liking me again" and look elsewhere for ego strokes again. Can you be in the fog and be 100% in R mode? If this is not the right place to post, sorry. Still new at this i guess. He answers my questions when I ask but gets all pouty. Do you wish your BS had given you space in the first month or so after dday? I really want to understand HIS pain(even though he made this mess). How can I help us BOTH heal if I keep "pulling the scab" off of this wound. ope everone is having a good day and thanks for all the help I have gotten here on SI.

Posts: 86 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: USA
lookinforward
♀ Member
Member # 20577
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH and I have been in a false R since mid-September. There was a d-day on Dec 4th (lots of texting) and then the final d-day being Jan. 26th(caught with VAR on secret phone telling mOW he loved her more than life itself, couldn't wait for them to be together, and talking about him leaving me).

Dec 4th was supposed to start our last attempt, but it did not work and I have been unable to stop the madness. I have asked him several times if he wants me to let him go I will - once with both of us in unbearable pain and tears.

We had some good discussions last night and he has not yet decided if he wants to R again though we still live in same home and sleep in same bed. We are set to go to Retrouvaille and until then he has promised NC and I have said I will not pressure him to make a decision. He says he is trying to find a comfort level with us, and he is concerned about what has to be done and how long, he just feels like he has been beat up (I will admit I freaked out a lot - understandably). Most of our problems/arguments have been my feeling he is in contact with mOW and his lack of affection toward me. I explain without him truly being in NC we will go nowhere, just spin our wheels.

Last night he asked me if I knew how hard he was fighting not to just run out the door. He is afraid to try R again because our previous attempts have not gone well, he is afraid he will be unhappy, will not get his needs met. I guess he is weighing the concerns he has for himself with the love he still has for me.

I printed off a lot of stuff on SI last night and he read it all. I also printed this quote I saw on someone's profile - Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear. by Ambrose Redmoon. With the thought that if his love for me is more important than his fear he will have the courage to attempt a real R.

Now I am kind of rambling. My question? Has any WS experienced those same feelings of fear, of struggling to keep yourself from running out the door? If so, why did you feel this way (I have already asked H and he is trying to explain)? Also how did you handle/deal with the situation?

Thanks!


~Without Struggle, There is no Progress

Posts: 1992 | Registered: Aug 2008
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just my opinion, but I think a WS has to put their needs aside for a bit. I'm not saying their needs aren't important, I'm saying that as hard as this is for WS (it IS hard on us)I think it is much more traumatic for the BS.
Marriage being a give and take, now is the time the WS really needs to give.
The work for a WS is substantial, I think we need to find out what's broken in us and do our best to fix it. At the same time trying to help BS get through this.Seeing what needs to be done can be overwhelming. The fear for me is that I will do everything and BS can still decide it's not worth it.
For me there is no choice, I will work through the fear,and pray for the best


WS 42

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