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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
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Member # 23323
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shameless bump...


"I'm darned if FWH messed up that bad- worked so hard to fix himself-becomes such a good person and I then cut him loose so the next woman enjoys what my heartbreak created out of him" NewAttitude. BS: me FWH: him.Dday 02/10.In R

Posts: 676 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Cloud cuckoo land???
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Member # 22666
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi want,

Before - I went through the majority of your posts in JFO and got caught up with your situation - so I'll try (with a little re-arranging the order of your questions)and give you my opinion.

Just a 'bit on the side' to fill the gap the marrital partner was (for whatever reason) not filling?

That is what is commonly called here as a wee bit of justification or blameshifting. This leads to your next question...

Was she a 'mistake' or what?

When it comes to an A (EA / PA / Both) there are no mistakes. I can say that under the right circumstances and without proper coping mechanisms / communication skills - A WS can do something they never could have believed themselves capabale of. However, in the end - no - there are no mistakes. Only the problems that need to be addressed *inside the WS*. These problems you see, being internal to the WS are not about you or what you were or were not fufilling (as the BS). Also, if you look through some of the previous posts here in ICR and in the WS Forum, it will show you that the internal reasons are different for each WS, however, the A at the core it truly is about a type of selfish behavior.

Selfish from the standpoint that we(WS) would do something so heinous to the one(BS) we are supposed to love, honor, and cherish, till death do us part.

SO -

why can she be so dumped and NC'd once the A is out?

The first reaction as a WS is also different, however, I think for many of us the first few feelings that we feel once the 'truth' of the A is out are guilt, shame, and fear. For a male WS(generally - not in all instances), I also think it's easier to throw the OW 'under the bus' and go NC. Not withstanding the emotional fallout and damage we have to see in our BW's face, emotions, and body language (which if we truly loved them is SO HARD TO BEAR). For some WS's another thought that will creep in quick is that here in the US (especially if your a Man and Wayward) - in a D or S - you now have a a whole lot to lose (not just the Relationship / M, the kids, monetarily, vocation, standing in the community, etc...). So you see, the damage (fallout) of your actions while you were magical thinking in your A - comes crashing in as all these other things jar you back to reality. At toher times a FOG sets in *see learning library* - I personally never ot a fog - once outed I came clean immediately and began asking myself - How much do I love my BS and what am I willing to do to prove it?

Does that mean WE actually do mean more to you than the OW or what?

Once I was able to answer that question the answer flat out was - YUP. Absolutely my BW means EVERYTHING to me and I clearly saw how bad I messed it up. Now over time that (IC, internal reflection, addressing my own issues, etc) means that I know what I have to lose (still could) and what I am willing to shoulder (whatever it takes) to help my BW heal and to hopefully regain the trust I lost.

I don't know in your case if your WH is to that point that he is able to truly step back and make that call based on your other threads. It's hard to say, but I believe that when words match actions in a consistent manner, you will know.

I will add you to my prayers and should you want me to try and be clearer - please let me know or PM me.

[This message edited by painfulandhurt at 10:03 AM, March 31st (Tuesday)]

WS - 30's (Me) BS - 30's (her)
M >10y
DDay# 05/2008
R / S / D - Im not sure and it changes moment to moment.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: lost...
the fsc
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Member # 23028
Default  Posted: 3:05 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I agree with a lot of what painfulandhurt said. I think that male waywards are mostly after a physical relationship. It's much easer to drop a physical relationship rather than when it's emotional.

I was after something that I THOUGHT I was missing...only to realize that I had it all along. I took my problems outside my marriage, rather than work with my BW on them.

And OW was a nut-job...and that certainly made it that much easier for me to go cold-turkey on the bitch once I was discovered.

If the OW in your situation made a threat to you, then perhaps your WH got defensive for you and made it that much "easier".

Bottom line...the less emotional it is...the easier it is to go NC.

WH - (45) Me
BS - (44) Her (Redrock)

D Day 3/23/2008

Posts: 165 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Michigan
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Member # 23040
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Did you go back and not want sex? I posted a thread before but I am looking for the WS point of view.

H was back two or three months but doesn't get in the mood. Not initiating sex. Don't understand why. He doesn't know why either. Not sure if he's in love. What do you think? Been there? Does the sex come back? WHEN!!?

I never wanted sex before but I am ready. He's not til I go for it and flirt my ass off. Doesn't seem right. Is this a love thing? Still just commited to OW? They're not together but I just don't get it.

Posts: 923 | Registered: Feb 2009
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Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by Sodown at 6:26 PM, February 25th (Tuesday)]

A dog will not tell you he has fleas but you can tell by the way he scratches. Graham Willets (Thanks to Treharris Mid Glamorgan)

Posts: 4797 | Registered: Oct 2003 | From: anywhere but here...
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Member # 12002
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, April 2nd (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all the WS that have replied and helped us BS understand your mindset while you involved in your A--

I have a question regarding EA..
My H's A started out as just physical and then over a period of 3 years OW has gone thru 3 bouts of breast cancer..
I do know that my H has feelings for her but to what extent I do not know as he will only say he doesn't love her..I have seen emails where he says he loves her but he says it's only because that what you say when someone say's it to you--BS I think...
Anyway, I believe that my H affair has not ended because he is emotionally invested in her now...
He does not want to lose his family at least he says he doesn't but I don't think he knows how to stop it because it's been so long and I know he has feelings for her...
How do I cope with this? I have talked to an attorney and know where I stand with regards to divorcing--which is an option I am considering. Financially it will be hard regarding the house which is the only reason I am still here...
Thanks for your insight....

Me: BS
Him: WS LTA 6+ yrs
OW: Skank Company HO
Divorce filed 4-5-11
WH served on 4-6-11 with D papers and NC order.
Divorced: 4/20/12

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Washington State
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Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need wayward opinions on this, so that's why I'm posting here and not in recon.

please read my profile for our backstory, but nutshell version is that WH had a MLC, got back together with his old bandmates, and along came an old groupie to fawn all over him. had an A for about a year and a half. d-day was 12/23. WH begged forgiveness, promised NC, wants to do whatever it takes to save our M. we are in MC and I am in IC.

I am having trouble understanding/believing him when he says he is or will be happy with our life now. if it made him unhappy before, and then he went and made our marriage and our life together so very much worse by having an A, then how is he going to be happy now?

fwiw, I was happy before, and thought he was too, until the A started, then I knew something was wrong.

I was a loving wife. I had a very positive outlook on life. now I am a desperately clingy wife who cries a lot. is that somehow preferable to how I was before? if he wasn't happy with me when I was at my best, then how can he be happy with me now?

I would especially like the opinions of WHs on this.

[This message edited by sadnews at 12:45 PM, April 4th (Saturday)]

Posts: 731 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: USA
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Default  Posted: 3:17 AM, April 5th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to PM a wayward who has experience with prostitutes...especially in countries other than the US.

Anyone that can help?

Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Member # 23040
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, April 5th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, waywards-

I don't know if any of you have been here.. but looking for advise.

H came back home too early. Didn't feel remorse. Didn't want to work on M yet. Then said he would try to R. His "trying" included taking me out sometimes and introducing me to friends that he had been going out with. Including me.

However, when I questioned about A he never opened up. Never able to reassure because he still honestly didn't know if he wanted to be back yet.

He has been back here and living like this for some time. He's waiting for the feeling to come back or something. Not sure if he even wants to stay in marriage because he wasn't even feeling love before he left. He would maybe rather be single. Not interested in being accountable for my feelings/ things necessary to be married (like making calls to say he will not be home, showing up for dinner, etc.) He seems to want the M without the actual commitment.

I am so very lost.

So my question goes like this:

Did any of you waywards stay in the house and then decide to commit to R? Did any of you just wait it out? Was your BS interested in R? I am SO very interested and it seems like he's FIGHTing ME off.

His idea now "I can't decide" to stay or go.

What now? Been here? What happens if he stays? Goes? Is there hope if he stays in the house?

Posts: 923 | Registered: Feb 2009
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Member # 20520
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, April 5th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A question for any WS that was in a LTA…

My H was in a LTA of 11years, his A was a very PA from the first night they met, having sex
in a parking lot…H blames his consuming of a lot of alcohol and the friends he was with that
evening a big reason why it happen in the first place…plus the fact that he recalls we were in
a dry spell, (lack of sex) but also claims he knows that is no justification why he had his first
encounter…Then as weeks turned into months, and months turned into years he became very addicted to the sex…but claims it never turned into love for him, but did realize OW was very
much in love with him…my question is this… do you think it’s possible to be in a LTA, see the OW person at least 2 to 3 times a week and claim you never stopped loving your wife and you were just using the OW for the sex? That you never were emotionally connected to OW but would give her just enough to keep the sex coming…that a LTA could be only about the sex?

Me 52 - WS-54 Married - 34 years 2 adult children, 3 grandchildren D-day - 04/14/08 LTA - 11 years.

Posts: 537 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Michigan
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Member # 22954
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, April 6th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my question is this: Once WS is found out and they do NC with OP do they think about them and care that they hurt them or are you just focused on your spouses pain?

Posts: 340 | Registered: Feb 2009
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Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, April 6th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't go through all the pages of responses, and I apologize in advance if it's already been asked, but I have a friend (really not me) whose WS does want to R, but only if they sweep it under the rug.

What does she do? The opinion of the WS is that the WS, who did wrong, is over 'it' (gigantic elephant in the room) so why can't BS be too?

She's on the fence: does she stay, does she go? SHE cannot 'sweep it under the rug' but she also doesn't dwell on it, but hell - it's a freaking problem!

I don't know what to tell her. I did not have a similar experience. I want to say run - but at the same time, WS is willing to R, and I am not one for not at least TRYING, but it's as if WS only wants it of they can 'pretend' it was a teeny bump in the road, like always forgetting to pick up milk on Thursday nights.

PS - IRL, I actually have 2 GF's in this sitch!

Any insight? (one says he'll do MC, one thinks they already 'did' after a few visits).

BW, divorced: 03/09

Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
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Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, April 7th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

New question:

In email to someone close to her, WW answers question "how are you doing?" with:

"lousy, filled with guilt, indecision, and anger"

Since she is not showing remorse, still seeing OM#3 and thinking I don't know, sleeping on the couch at home (she's getting sex, I'm not), I'm not seeing filled with guilt, I read the indecision as "she's decided, but not telling", and I don't get the anger.

Angry at getting caught?
Angry at cake-eating ending?
Angry at me?
Angry at life?
Angry at God?

Can someone clue me in? I really want to understand.

Take care of yourself. There's a great future out there. It won't come to you; you have to go to it.

Posts: 4944 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Crazyville ( A little East of St. Louis)
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Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, April 7th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my question is this: Once WS is found out and they do NC with OP do they think about them and care that they hurt them or are you just focused on your spouses pain?

I thought I'd respond since this relates to my situation exactly right now. I've been NC for almost 2 months now. It hurts like hell. I think about him constantly, miss him, and wonder how he is, hoping he's OK. Yes, I'm focusing on my BH, but yeah, the situation with the OP hurts like hell. I don't tell my BH all this though b/c it would only increase his pain. It is getting better over time, but yeah, I think about the OP and hurt for both of us.

Posts: 316 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Pemberley
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Happy  Posted: 10:02 AM, April 7th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wannabenormal -

I don't know what to tell her.


The opinion of the WS is that the WS, who did wrong, is over 'it'

Ok, let's assume that he's right and he's "over it". No, wait. He's not over "it". He's over "her". The reason for the discomfort with that is how does she know that he will not chase the next OP that comes along?

In her shoes, I would challenge him on this. The question he needs to answer is:

You chose to have an A. Why did you choose something so harmful and destructive?

The answer will dictate the next push. If his answer is that his BS was to blame because she didn't do A, B or C, then the follow up is "you could have asked for MC. You could have asked for S. But you chose an A. That choice isn't a healthy one. You need to explore in IC why that was your choice and fix that first.

If his answer is due to any weakness within himself (low self esteem, conflict avoidance, etc.), then the follow up is "how do I know that you have the coping skills to handle things the next time someone comes along stroking your ego? I don't unless you have worked in IC to find your weaknesses and address them.

In neither case is sweeping things under the rug acceptable. He must address his own flaws in order for them both to heal. If he pushes back, it's a big red flag and the WS does not get to dictate the terms of an R.

BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, April 7th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


have you gone through periods where you felt so terrible about yourself that you thought you wanted to escape your relationship when you were actually trying to escape yourself?

All the time, initially. ALL THE TIME. If I did not see H, then I would not have to face what I'd done. My IC asked, but then what about what I thought to myself when I'm alone? The fact is, we cannot escape far enough away to escape it at all.

"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, April 7th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LookingforLove -

I have seen emails where he says he loves her

Are these current emails? If so, he has not ended his affair. And he cannot move past this if he is still in it.

"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, April 7th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

flygirl96 -

Once WS is found out and they do NC with OP do they think about them and care that they hurt them or are you just focused on your spouses pain?

I don't know if "focused" is the right word. I felt and experienced everyone's pain - but I tried not to feel H's. That was the worst - the knowledge of how much I betrayed him. I was not too concerned with the xOM's "pain" - I'm sure he was hurt, but I didn't betray him.

"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, April 7th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No these were emails from about a year ago. He got a new email account which I do not have access to so I am assuming he still feels the same..especially since he took her on a trip for a couple of days while enroute to meet his sisters...apparently he hid her in a hotel room...
How do I deal with an A that is emotional as well as physical?

Me: BS
Him: WS LTA 6+ yrs
OW: Skank Company HO
Divorce filed 4-5-11
WH served on 4-6-11 with D papers and NC order.
Divorced: 4/20/12

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Washington State
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Default  Posted: 12:16 PM, April 7th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TrustedHer, I felt a lot of the same things but I was more sad than angry after my d'days. When I finally got angry, it wasn't the list you listed, but I was angry at xMM for lying to me before, and during the A. If I knew the truth I never would have taken gotten involved with him. Ugh.

But what I was really angry at was myself. I was an idiot for falling for it, I was an idiot for having an A, I was an idiot for believing xMM, I was an idiot for hurting my husband, I was an idiot for everything I had ever done. I had hurt everybody.

I was just SO mad at myself.


Forgiveness is giving up the possibility of a better past.

Nobody forgets what happens, the secret is learning to live with it.

Posts: 2764 | Registered: Feb 2006
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