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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 5:04 PM, May 10th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokendreamz -

Now that WH is being given a "2nd chance" - why would he believe there will be harsh consequences/divorce if there is more infidelity (EA or PA)?

I am being given a second chance. I don't know about your WH, but I know that with my H, the next time is the last. I believe him when he says that. If you don't mean it, your WH won't believe you. So, you have to ask yourself if you would really leave if it happens again. If so, then he will believe you.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, May 10th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

woundedspouse,

So I ask him why he stopped to talk to this woman, as there was no accident. He says, well she was standing in the middle of the bike path ( there are always people standing / walking / riding/ talking….. he never stops). So I ask him if he could not get around her? Of course he could, but he stopped to talk to her ( no sign of an accident as it was cleaned up the night before, but he says there was dirt messed up). So I am getting concerned as to WHY he thought it was ok to stop and talk to a random woman / stranger (?) for no apparent reason.

He gets all pissy, picks up his chair and is going to leave, making comments that he cannot believe I would make an issue, etc…. that he did nothing wrong and I cannot recall what he said verbatim, but basically that I was crazy. I tell him if he walks away from the conversation not to bother heading home…..

I would wonder why, too. Was Detached always chatty with a random stranger of opposite gender during A, too?

I was not chatty or flirty with other men during A, but after I ended my PA (over 2 years ago), I have no desire to talk to random stranger for no reason.

Perhapps, he might not be thinking that the woman was attractive (as my H would say f*ckable), but he might be thking "Wounded would not believe what I have to say, and it doesn't matter, so I might as well just tell her whatever she might be assuming".

I am sorry that he is not willing to understand you and . In that sense, I agree with you, you cannot feel that he is remoseful.

Are you two in MC? Is Detached seeing IC?


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, May 11th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

woundedspouse -

If you break down your story, it seems to come down to this:

Good - he volunteered that he stopped and talked to an unfamiliar woman (not trying to conceal the interaction). He admitted that there was no sign of an immediate accident (not trying to make the details bigger than they were to allow sympathy to overcome the inappropriate contact). After being pushed back on by you, he didn't shut the conversation down totally (silence is deadly for a passive aggressive - means they will likely use an unhealthy outlet for their stress).

Bad - didn't recognize how this might trigger you. Reacted defensively when questioned. Displayed some KISA attributes. Lashed out with a hurtful comment. Continues to respond in anger.

The good are about the work he has done to date to understand what he has done wrong, and the actions he needs to take to overcome his actions. The bad are about his continued inability to focus on what you need and giving you a high enough priority in the relationship (above his own needs at times). He has figured out how to be remorseful for his past actions, but not how to move into a mature love to build on moving forward.

I think it's probably worth some time in IC for him to look into what holds him back from thinking about what you need from him and why.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
lieshurt
♀ Member
Member # 14003
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS's,

I have read several posts by BS's who are either contemplating a revenge affair, had a revenge affair or engaged in completely inappropiate contact with another. In response to those posts, I see many BS's who encourage them, help justify these decisions or give them the old high five for getting back at their WS.

Personally, it sickens me to read those comments and I feel it does a grave disservice to you WS's who have done the hard work or are currently doing the hard work to R and to overcome your issues.

What I want to know is....How do you feel when you read these posts?

[This message edited by lieshurt at 12:43 PM, May 13th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 13356 | Registered: Mar 2007 | From: Houston
hopefulone23
♀ Member
Member # 18769
Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are 16 months out from d-day and all along my FWH has maintained that he has NO feelings whatsoever for xOW, that everything went "poof" on d-day and there was never any doubt in his mind about his feelings for her.

This was a 4 year intense affair, with ILYs and forever afters exchanged. They texted and talked by phone almost daily and saw each other 1x a month, sometimes every 2 months.

The affair ended by an anonymous letter in the mail to me, which we later figured out was from the OW.

All this time, I have always felt in my heart that my FWH still has feelings for OW and he's always insisted he does not and never thinks about her.

Fast foward to 3 weeks ago. I finally asked him to send a letter to OW after saying all of the things he's been telling me all along like how she was the one who initiated things and pursued him, how much he loved me, not her, etc. This was something I really needed for closure. I need to add here that he has had NC whatsoever since d-day of that I'm 100% sure.

When push came to shove with him writing the letter, he couldn't bring himself to put down all of the things he'd been telling me.

To make a very long story short, he is now in a state of "confusion" and depression over this whole letter fiasco because he says he does not feel feelings for her but feels like he is mourning the loss of her and that the letter brought all of this to the surface.
He also said he's 95% sure he doesn't have any feelings for her now but can't be 100% because he's not able to put a finger on why he's so sad.

My question is is it possible or normal for a WS to bury feelings for the OW on d-day and really feel on a conscious level they are gone, and then for something like this to happen at 16 months out?

We are on the verge of separating over this because it is absolutely killing me, it's like another d-day all over again!!!



BS (me)-52
WS (him)-51
Married: 20 years—together 28
D-Day: February, 2007
4+ Yr LTA w MOW, EA/PA
Update: Broke NC with same MOW 10/11!
Filed for D and Served WH 11/8/11

Posts: 755 | Registered: Mar 2008
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lieshurt

revenge affair

What I want to know is....How do you feel when you read these posts?

I wish H would have one so that I would not have to look upon his purity anymore. I am not being facetious. It is hell on earth to be the one who sinned, for him to be the one who took me back, and for this to hang over the rest of my life.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
GeminiGirl
♀ Member
Member # 23292
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to ask a new question of WS's in this thread. I'm not sure if this is the correct way, but here goes:

I would like to know if any WS's can comments on something I (BS) could say or do to get my WH to tell me the truth about his A. We are both in IC and in MC.

Why do I think WH has not told me the whole truth yet

- trickle truth that I figured out, and who knows how much I haven't;
- much defensiveness, such that MC has called him on it;
- denial, minimizing, not owning what he did;
- holes in the story;
- things that simply do not make sense;
- I had to drag a confession out of him.

WH is treating me much better than when I discovered his A; things were bad, and WH sometimes crossed the line to emotional and verbal abuse. WH was likely depressed.

WH declares he loves me, will do anything, but in our attempted R sometimes it takes little for him to flip back into a defensive, insulting jerk. When I say "little", I mean things such saying I want him to make a time line for me, or answer my questions.

I don't need this. I am ready to give up. Ideas welcome. Thanks so much to anyone who can comment.


Me: BW (52); WH: 58
M: 11 years
D-day: 2/24/09
Kids: 2 his, 2 mine
Status: trying R; in MC, both IC

Posts: 137 | Registered: Mar 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lieshurt -

How do you feel when you read these posts?

I've learned over time not to superimpose the posts of others onto myself or my own situation. Yes, there is a part of me that wants to scream at them not to sacrifice their soul in the way that I have. And if asked for advice I would always advise against it.

But I've managed to find a way to remember that their situation is not mine. I can only be accountable for the behavior of one person - myself.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:46 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopefulone -

My question is is it possible or normal for a WS to bury feelings for the OW on d-day and really feel on a conscious level they are gone, and then for something like this to happen at 16 months out?

We are on the verge of separating over this because it is absolutely killing me, it's like another d-day all over again!!!

I don't like answering a question with another question, but why in the world would you ask a FWS to reopen the door by violating NC?

I can't speak to your WH's reality, only my own. Based on my experience, what I felt during the A was not love. It was an infatuation based on attention that I felt for some reason was missing. Once NC was established, I was able to work on moving that addiction away and focusing on my BW and her needs.

While I have strengthened myself immensely since that time, if I were to break NC I think there would be a flood of things that could surface in my mind. All the "how is she doing?", "does she hate me?", "does she have any feelings or was it all false for her as well?", "did she move on rapidly after NC?" would bubble up.

I guess I can appreciate your need to sort of rub it in the face of xOW to gain your closure. But in working on closing the door for yourself, you reopened a door your FWH worked very hard to close and weld shut.

At this point, I think all you can do is push him to get into IC, work on reminding himself of the toxicity of OW, stop focusing on how he may or may not have felt about xOW and on how he feels about you. How he felt or feels about xOW doesn't matter if the love he has for you runs deeper than what he can feel for anyone else.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:55 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

GeminiGirl -

I would like to know if any WS's can comments on something I (BS) could say or do to get my WH to tell me the truth about his A.

The only thing that works in all of this are clear, definitive boundaries. Based on his history and actions, it's unlikely that if he blurted out the full truth you would believe him. So at this point, he's kind of in a lose/lose situation no matter what he does.

With that said, if a full timeline is what you need to heal, you need to make him understand it's not optional. On D-day, I was given a choice by my BW. Call a counselor or call an attorney. Nothing in between. It was clear to me what I needed to do.

So in your case, it may be write a timeline or you will get D papers drawn up. It may be he has to take a Polygraph or D papers will be drawn up. Only you can decide what your dealbreakers are. But in the end, it has to be an either/or choice. From there, it's up to him to make the call.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Suitey
♀ Member
Member # 14846
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For WS - and this may have been asked before but what the heck -- when you get caught, rather than ending it yourself - is your attempt and desire for R really from the heart or do you feel it is easier to "settle" for your BS? This is of course if you did not love the OW....or OM.


Are any of you settling?4


Posts: 784 | Registered: Jun 2007
NeedingGodsHelp
♀ Member
Member # 23580
Default  Posted: 11:21 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS, who believed I would "never sign divorce papers" because that is waht I said (and felt) in the first weeks, got served last night. He said "I can't talk to you anymore tonight." and hung up. I havne't heard a thing from him since. He won't even call back about softball schedules with the kids.

I thought this is what he wanted. He has told me numerous times he wants a D. Did he really think I was going to live in a state of limbo with him livign with his grandmother and dating teh OW and not contributing a dime to our household?

I wish I could get in his head and see waht he is thinking.

Any thoughts?


BS: me 33
WH: him 33
Married almost 9 yrs, together (off-and-on) 18.5 years
4 kids: 1 mine & 3 ours
DD#1: 2/12/2009 (EA#1)
DD#2: 2/26/2009 (EA/PA w/ tramp#2 - since July 2008)
Status: D 5/2010, Standing, WH living with OW, D filed 4/28/09)

Posts: 440 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Climbing out of hell...
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 11:45 PM, May 13th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lieshurt-

I have read several posts by BS's who are either contemplating a revenge affair, had a revenge affair or engaged in completely inappropiate contact with another. How do you feel when you read these posts?
It is their marriage, so whatever they decide to do that is their choice. As for my sitch, I was encouraging him to see other women during A, but he refused. If he later decided to want to do to make even and to make him feel better, I would accept it. If he decide to do it behind my back, it would be too late for me to do anything and I would have to deal with whatever happens. I know the drill from there.

Suitey -

when you get caught, rather than ending it yourself - is your attempt and desire for R really from the heart or do you feel it is easier to "settle" for your BS? This is of course if you did not love the OW....or OM.

Ok, my sitch was open and I ended on my own. H was willing to give me D if I thought I loved xOM than H. Anyways, I was in love with the idea of being in love with the xOM and I didn't love him as a person. I was in the thick fog though, so at the beginning of R journey, I thought I stayed in M, because H and I had a long history and we have the kids, but after 3 - 6 months of withdrawal stage, I realized that H is the best and healthy for me. I then changed my mind-set from we are staying for the kids to if we are in this together I want to enjoy being together in the future.

NeedingGodsHelp -

My WS, who believed I would "never sign divorce papers" because that is waht I said (and felt) in the first weeks, got served last night. He said "I can't talk to you anymore tonight." and hung up. I havne't heard a thing from him since. He won't even call back about softball schedules with the kids.
I thought this is what he wanted. He has told me numerous times he wants a D. Did he really think I was going to live in a state of limbo with him livign with his grandmother and dating teh OW and not contributing a dime to our household?

If he is carrying on the A, and now openly dating, he is in the thick fog, and until he hit the rock bottom, NC with OW or OW hurts him by having OOM, he cannot be defogged. Right now he is indulging himself in his selfhishland and his family is on his bottom of his totem pole. We cannot control others behavior, but only yourself.

Please guard your heart and keep working on yourself.

(((Hugs))))

[This message edited by beach at 11:46 PM, May 13th (Wednesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Suitey -

Are any of you settling?

The answer you would get from me depends on the point in time when you asked. In the early days following D-Day, I would have given a very foggy answer. In my mind I just wasn't sure whether I was acting because it was what I wanted or because it was the "right thing to do".

Often times people will refer to a "fake it til you make it approach" in the early days of R. Because a WS isn't thinking straight at that point in time, it's almost a necessity to do this. It doesn't mean they aren't staying due to love. It means they have no clear reference to know why they are staying.

Now, in the hindsight of 2+ years of R, I know I stayed because of the deep love I feel for my BW. In fact, I know that it's the depth of that love that resulted in the strength of our R. If I did not love my BW as much as I do, we would not be where we are today.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NeedingGodsHelp -

Did he really think I was going to live in a state of limbo with him livign with his grandmother and dating teh OW and not contributing a dime to our household?

My guess is he wasn't thinking at all. Remember that while in the A we are in a total fantasy world. The only thing that fully shakes a WS into action are consequences for our actions.

As long as things were floating along with no real change, there was nothing to push your WS to face the consequences of his decisions. Now you have, and he has been smacked in the face with it full force. He can no longer set it aside and delay dealing with the outcomes he has created.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
icbtih8
♀ Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

maybe this has been asked before but why would a WS have an affair (assuming there are no kids involved)? i don't get it. why not end the M and then go out with the OP?

if they desire to be with people other than their spouses, why the secrecy? why not just end the M and go about with other people?


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
Ceva
♀ Member
Member # 23962
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This may have been asked, so sorry if so..

But for WS's:

My WH (We are in R) has said when he was with OW (during sex) he was thinking of me. It was always ME he wanted.

And that when he was with me (during the A) he was never thinking of OW.

Could this be true? I find it hard to believe...please offer some insights.

Thank you so much!


ME: BS 43
Him: WH 44...9 month PA w/ co-worker
WH: wants R
me: not sure...back to square 1: total devastation
Dday(Trickle Truth) April 12-May 8 2009
married 20 years
2 yr old son-light of my life

Posts: 147 | Registered: May 2009 | From: western USA
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8 -
maybe this has been asked before but why would a WS have an affair (assuming there are no kids involved)? i don't get it. why not end the M and then go out with the OP?
if they desire to be with people other than their spouses, why the secrecy? why not just end the M and go about with other people?

Many WSs are not all or nothing type. Want security (financial and doomestic) and eat cake too. Coward and conflic avoider is also something to do with being sneaky and have a double life. Many of us has family of orgin issue (codependent, abandonment), and some of us have personality disorder (narcisistic personality disorder), too.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ceva -
My WH (We are in R) has said when he was with OW (during sex) he was thinking of me. It was always ME he wanted.

And that when he was with me (during the A) he was never thinking of OW.

Could this be true? I find it hard to believe...please offer some insights.

Each WS is different, but as for me, during A, whenever I had sex with xOM. I didn't think about H and when I had sex with H, I didn't think about xOM. I guess I was using the compartmentalizing skills. (please read in FAQ about compartmentalizing question answered by Fallen)

Here "What is compartmentalization?"

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_ws.asp#FAQ7

[This message edited by beach at 10:28 AM, May 14th (Thursday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
Ceva
♀ Member
Member # 23962
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, May 14th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I looked up Compartmentalism..but WH does not seem to being saying was doing that while in the sex act (for sure during the affair, he has said he felt like another person, he boxed things up etc)...
but do WS really EVER think of their spouce while getting it on with the OP?? Or are they jut into this OP?

I read on FAQ that the WS cried after being with Husband as she felt she was betraying OM!

I am hoping a WS will post n experience that tells me my husband could have actually been thiking/wishing it were me..but I amprepared to know the answer/truth, no matter what it is...


ME: BS 43
Him: WH 44...9 month PA w/ co-worker
WH: wants R
me: not sure...back to square 1: total devastation
Dday(Trickle Truth) April 12-May 8 2009
married 20 years
2 yr old son-light of my life

Posts: 147 | Registered: May 2009 | From: western USA
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