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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
Lilly642
♀ Member
Member # 23984
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for a FWS(especially FWH)... this has prob been asked before, but i have 3 small kids and babysit another so my time is limited on the computer. so sorry if this has already been asked.

When your BS still wants you after your A and is nice to you, loving toward you, still wants to have sex with you, etc... (assuming that the WS wants to reconcile) does it make you feel worse? and do you think it makes you love them more and appreciate them more? does it make you realize that your BS truly loves you if they are willing to act this way even tho you caused them such hurt?

obviously, treating your WS this way doesnt happen immediately, but when it does happen...do you feel that way?


me-BW(29)
WH(31)
divorce will be final 1-19-10

Posts: 205 | Registered: May 2009 | From: ohio
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopingwaiting -

Is a total 180 necessary for every WS?

It can vary. In my case, I didn't need a 180 because I knew based on the history between my BW and I that her position was not an idle threat. If I chose R, I had to comply with all requirements - NC, IC, honesty and transparency. The alternative was D. No in between.

Had my BW not been the type to follow through on her convictions, a 180 might have been necessary to reinforce that my actions had to change in order for us to heal.

I am thankful each day for the strength of my BW.

In your case, you need to decide what relationship you can live with. The bottom line should be that parts of the 180 back off only when your WS shows an individual commitment to fixing what they tore apart.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lilly642 -

does it make you feel worse? and do you think it makes you love them more and appreciate them more? does it make you realize that your BS truly loves you if they are willing to act this way even tho you caused them such hurt?

This is sort of backwards thinking from my perspective. My A had nothing to do with my BW or her actions. It was not about anything she did or didn't do. It was about failings within myself.

In the early going, I simply appreciated the fact she didn't immediately file for D and was willing to work on our relationship together. As time went on and I realized the benefits of IC, I gained an appreciation of her for simply the size of the sacrifice she made to keep our relationship alive in spite of my actions.

When my BW is loving toward me, it simply shows me the depth of her love for me, and for that I am forever grateful.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Lilly642
♀ Member
Member # 23984
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening closely:

thanks. i was just curious what it would feel like to be in a WS shoes in a situation like that.


me-BW(29)
WH(31)
divorce will be final 1-19-10

Posts: 205 | Registered: May 2009 | From: ohio
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 2:42 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When your BS still wants you after your A and is nice to you, loving toward you, still wants to have sex with you, etc... (assuming that the WS wants to reconcile) does it make you feel worse? and do you think it makes you love them more and appreciate them more? does it make you realize that your BS truly loves you if they are willing to act this way even tho you caused them such hurt?

It made me realize how much my husband loved me and that he wasn't going to give up on our marriage. It took some time before I was ready to accept that love again because I was very foggy for a while. I think the way he acted in the beginning after d-day really helped us get through this all.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
Lilly642
♀ Member
Member # 23984
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i never thought about this question until recently. i didn't act nice to him and all that bc i wanted to make him feel worse. i just couldn't be a psycho bc i really do love him.


me-BW(29)
WH(31)
divorce will be final 1-19-10

Posts: 205 | Registered: May 2009 | From: ohio
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:57 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i didn't act nice to him and all that bc i wanted to make him feel worse

Point of truth here - a BS cannot make a WS feel worse.

Why?

Because an unremorseful WS is not feeling pain at the hands of their BS. They are so deep in their fog that they are numbed to the pain of their BS, and are focused solely on the high they need to get from an OP.

A remorseful WS cannot be made to feel worse, because they are already hitting rock bottom. They already feel ripped to shreds, and will take any efforts to make them feel bad as further assurance that they don't deserve happiness.

What a FWS needs more than anything else is total honesty from their BS (ironically the biggest thing they took away from their BS). State what you feel and be clear about what you will and will not accept in their behavior. Everything else will happen based on that honesty.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
darkbeast
♂ Member
Member # 19220
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

does it make you feel worse?

Lilly,
It did make me feel worse. Receiving love and kindness in the face of what I did was difficult. But I have learned so much about humility, forgiveness, and love from BB.


I thought I wanted a career, but I discoved that I just like paychecks.

Posts: 2466 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Florida
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lilly642-

When your BS still wants you after your A and is nice to you, loving toward you, still wants to have sex with you, etc... (assuming that the WS wants to reconcile) does it make you feel worse?

Yes, absolutely. Anything nice he does for me makes me feel worse.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would disagree with LC that an unremorseful WS doesn't feel pain. I think they DO feel pain, but they choose not to act on it. And for what it's worth, I also believe that remorseful WSes CAN be made to feel worse depending on how their BS treats them.

Yes, I was remorseful, but if my husband had been abusive or hateful, it would have made me feel even worse. His kindness certainly made me feel unworthy, but after I'd hurt him so badly, who was I to question his belief in me? It was what motivated me to change and be the kind of wife he deserved all along.

Every person is different. Every marriage is different. While we all experience some things similarly, there are differences in how we feel and how we heal. My husband understood that when he set boundaries. I know he'd have had a breaking point, and thankfully I never pushed that far. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that there is only one way to heal- there isn't.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
painfulandhurt
♂ Member
Member # 22666
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will echo Fallen in my beliefs about unremorseful and remorseful WS's. I will also agree to a point with LC that if a WS is TOTALLY consumed and DEEP in the fog, they not initally feel the pain, but it does come. In some cases, the internal 'pain' may have led them down the path to begin with.

but the part that I think stands very true at least in my situation

I also believe that remorseful WSes CAN be made to feel worse depending on how their BS treats them

The hard part for the BS is figuring out if the WS is truely remorseful and only being human, sometimes it can not be avoided. Sometimes the PAIN and ANGER is all the BS will see...


WS - 30's (Me) BS - 30's (her)
M >10y
1 DS/DD
DDay# 05/2008
R / S / D - Im not sure and it changes moment to moment.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: lost...
painfulandhurt
♂ Member
Member # 22666
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LJA -

I have a question. My WH says that he has nothing but friend feelings for me and isn't sure he'll ever love me again. He sleeps in the recliner, if he sleeps at all, says everything I do annoys him and he doesn't know why. He's not eating much at all and says he's just so confused right now. Did any of you go thru this during the first couple of weeks of NC? Sunday will be 3 weeks since NC.

To break this down is kinda hard but let's tackle it a piece at a time...

I will tell you at almost a year out - I am still not really eating or sleeping very well. It mainly has to do with all of the motions I am feeling inside myself and my BW's moods do affect those things. As we hit bottoms (alot in the past 6 months), the guilt, the pain, the hurt I caused - All of it is amplified and it takes a toll on my brain. So I can understand that part of it. The Friend feelings and sleeping in the recliner...well...

that is a tough one. If he is still attached emotionally to the A partner well..that would explain alot. It sounds like he has not totally detached.. That will take time. It will also kinda explain the anger/irritation. He has now been put into a position that he now must deal with those feelings and feelings about you.

Lastly, there definitely could be some depression involved her and I would suggest you gently nudge him towards a doctor to explore it.

I hope that helps...


WS - 30's (Me) BS - 30's (her)
M >10y
1 DS/DD
DDay# 05/2008
R / S / D - Im not sure and it changes moment to moment.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: lost...
hopingwaiting
♀ Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 11:19 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, ListeningClosely, for your response to my q about 180. It makes sense to secure the parts that protect me from being hurt by him! Thanks for the good advice!

Here is something else I have been wondering about-- is it common for WS take several attempts to end their A before they can do it? LC, I know you ended it right away but what about others???


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 11:39 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for the WS to make several attempts to end the A and stick to NC.

If you think of the A as a drug, it's a bit easier to see why the WS would have a hard time putting down the pipe. If we use the A as escape from our pain, then the pain after dday is intensified, creating in MOST WSes a desire for the high. It's really about the WSes lack of coping mechanisms or unwillingness to face what they've done.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
down4now
♀ Member
Member # 23635
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've also put this in the depression thread but would appreciate some WS feedback?


Any WS out there who started their A because they were depressed?
My FWH was deeply depressed before the A but couldn't admit it to himself. Blamed our M and me though he knew in his heart that wasn't the cause. Says OW 'made him feel alive' i.e. her OTT ego stroking/flattery and sexual offers were the only things that dragged him briefly out of the dark place he was in. Between the highs of the A (sex talk and anticipation) he was guilt ridden and suicidal. Now he's struggling to cope and thinks he might be on the edge of a breakdown but refuses to go the doctors. Doesn't want Meds as he's never believed in them. Has just started IC but it's early days yet. Keeps feeling as if 'somethings going to break' yet is just about managing to keep working as he feels that's all that is keeping him sane. Can anyone relate to this?
I'm in too much of a reactive depressive state to give him any real help in this and obviously, he can't help me through this given the state he's in. I'm really worried about him.

Just edited to say that this deep depression started around the time he hit 40 and got steadily worse. He used to be a more positive, optimistic and loving man although he did display traits of passive aggressivness at times (this is much worse now as well).

[This message edited by down4now at 3:41 AM, May 23rd (Saturday)]


BS (me) 44
WS (him)45
Married 21yrs, Together 25 yrs
Children boy 14, girl 19
D-Day(s)26th Feb, 1st March, 12th March 2009
5 Month EA/PA
OW: 52,former friend.
NC 4th March 09. Broken by OW 13th Aug, 20th Nov
On the road to R

Posts: 837 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: UK
painfulandhurt
♂ Member
Member # 22666
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

While I can not realte...from what you described sounds a bit bipolar to me. Manic Highs (A related activities) and Depressive lows (the in between)...

I wish I had some better advice to give, I know onw of our oher WS's may have more words of wisdom to help.


WS - 30's (Me) BS - 30's (her)
M >10y
1 DS/DD
DDay# 05/2008
R / S / D - Im not sure and it changes moment to moment.

Posts: 359 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: lost...
nomore143
♀ Member
Member # 23818
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure if I just jump in with a question or not... But if I do I'd really like some insight on how difficult this is on a WS and what emotions you deal with. I am working through what I need to but I'm trying to understand what WH is going through. Not so much because I think I can help him through it but because I want to try to understand for myself for the healing process. I think of him as cruel and heartless but I also know he must be going through a lot too. He doesn't talk to me about it much so any insight would be very helpful! Thanks!

*just wanted to add I have been to the healing library, read not just friends, and I'm now starting on getting past the affair.

[This message edited by nomore143 at 2:31 PM, May 20th (Wednesday)]


Failure will never overtake me if my determination to succed is strong enough!

http://eahaffairjournal.blogspot.com/

D-Day 4/25/2009


Posts: 286 | Registered: May 2009
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nomore --

Some of what I was going though:
- guilt from hurting my husband so much
- withdrawal from missing the A
- understanding that I wasn't who I thought I was
- total emotional upheaval, so much so that I went numb for a while
- understanding that there were serious problems in my marriage that I had avoided working on, but would have to do so now
- fear that my husband wouldn't be able to get over the affair
- fear that my feelings for him wouldn't come back

There's probably more, but I was really in turmoil for several months. Do you have any specific questions?


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
want-it-2-b-ok
♀ Member
Member # 23323
Default  Posted: 5:06 AM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is this 'normal' behaviour for a WS.

My WS has been gaslighting me for months now about their relationship. I found out 2 weeks ago (5 months ago she called-threatened to kill me. Got her name 2 months ago; 2 weeks ago after she was arrested & interviewed she admitted to PA)and that is when he finally admitted it too.

PRIOR to me finding out he had stated they were just friends etc; that he was intent on 'coming home' (but was always stalling as knew she'd be arrested and probably spill truth); was constantly asking me to confirm that WHATEVER happened I was 100% committed to working our marriage out and telling me that he would spend the rest of his life making this up to me.

Now I know the truth I have had:
1. There's no point to u and me any more. The truth's out in the open so what 's the point.
2.Take my wedding ring back- it means nothing to me- our marriage has always been crap.
3.To now calling me every day to see if I am okay (on strong antiD's because of this) and texting sayin how he misses his 'babydoll' (me)

He has said repeatedly that they are NO longer in any contact...

Does my marriage stand a chance or what?

*We were living apart after a row and he was going to come home but then SHE called and this is when he started stalling returning and gaslighting btw (Maybe because I always said previously that infidelity was the line in the sand for me?)

[This message edited by want-it-2-b-ok at 5:09 AM, May 21st (Thursday)]


"I'm darned if FWH messed up that bad- worked so hard to fix himself-becomes such a good person and I then cut him loose so the next woman enjoys what my heartbreak created out of him" NewAttitude. BS: me FWH: him.Dday 02/10.In R

Posts: 676 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: Cloud cuckoo land???
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:05 AM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nomore -

You can ask away here. The more specific you are with your question, the better we can offer feedback from our experiences.

Certainly along with the things EmptyCup shared, there were also feelings of being lost and disoriented. The fantasy world of the A and the real world of my M collided, leaving me wondering just how I got where I was and what I should do next. Sorrow, anger, terror, frustration....all emotions that bounced around all day for a while.

Are there things you are seeing in your WS that you need help understanding?


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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