I think the best resources that helped me regain my perspective on love were "After the Affair" and "The Five Love Languages".
"After the Affair" helped me to sort out the difference between romantic love and mature love. It helped me lock in on a mature love for my BW.
"The Five Love Languages" helped me to understand the differences in how my BW and I "received" love and the changes I could make that would mean something to her. You can believe love represents something all you want. But if you show it in a language that is different from how your spouse receives it, the feeling of love won't be understood.
I just can't believe he is capable of this. I feel so stuck being pregnant with our child.
Now look at your own situation. You are pushing the "Anti-A" drug. The one that takes away the high of his A, and has the painful side effects of him facing the damage he has done. While not all WS's will react this way, some will get angry, and even combative because you "took away their high".
The analogy of addiction seems to make a little more sense to me in that the combativeness comes from taking his high away when he is faced with me.
So, now my question is... is this something that I can expect will be the way he treats me and relates to me from now on, since he is deep in his affair and says he has no desire to come home?
Or can I hope that one day he will at least treat me with respect?
Is the combativeness, anger, and blame something a WS does consciously to intentionally hurt and blameshift?
Does a WS really, truly believe the lies they have convinced themselves about BS and the marriage (rewriting marital history), or on some level do you realize that you are doing it to justify your A?
Will the fog ever lift if he continues in this lifestyle?
[This message edited by NeedingGodsHelp at 1:29 AM, June 5th (Friday)]
is this something that I can expect will be the way he treats me and relates to me from now on, since he is deep in his affair and says he has no desire to come home?
Based on what I went through, the response you are getting will continue as long as he remains focused on OW and as long as you challenge his actions. It may temper over time, but I can't see his response changing until his fantasy world with OW breaks down (either by him or by her).
Tough questions. If my BW had been having an affair, I would clearly have been devastated. No circumstances can reduce the pain felt by a BS, no matter what the conditions are.
Would I be able to bounce back? The reason this is tough is knowing what I know now I know that I could. I could find a path to forgiveness and healing. But that's with the benefit of counseling, reading and some great guidance here on SI.
If it had happened before learning all of that? It would depend on what resources we had available and what we learned over time. Altered actions change results. Given the same resources and healing process I would have healed. Missing pieces of the puzzle though, and things would not have gone well.
Thank you, as always for your honesty.
I wonder that about myself. I have such poor self esteem and am such an external validator. I wonder if my H had had an affair if it would have crushed me beyond repair. I'm much stronger now, but I don't know if I would have had the strength that he has shown since finding out I betrayed him.
Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien
We are in R - or at least I think we are (after being in FR for 5 months) It has been 7 months since that ended and we are in real R I hope.
But see - I put "I hope". I have seem some real changes in FWH. He's much more "there" for me, but of course it's not perfect.
He is a person who has a very difficult time expressing himself and getting in touch with his feelings (FOO issues he is seeing and IC for). I do see him trying. Conflict avoider, passive aggressive - all the stuff.
As I said, there have been changes - however small - I see an effort.
Are there any WS who have a very difficult time expressing themselves and just wish that the A topic would not come up. How do you balance the BS almost obsessive need to talk about it with the FWH want to move on? This is really a place where I am stuck.
I guess I read about other FWS who have really gone to great lengths to make their BS feel secure (doing WHATEVER it takes). My FWH is much more passive - waiting for me to bring it up.
He read what I asked him to read - nothing more. He goes to IC cause that was a dealbreaker. We go to MC and he actually thinks that's effective (but I'm pretty sure that's because it focuses on both of us). There just seems to me to be a real desire to avoid self reflection - I think it makes him feel disgusted. But doesn't he NEED to do that.
Is it maturity and self esteem that makes a person pro-active or is it just an inborn personality?
"An EA is just a PA you don't know about yet." (MET)
He definitely needs to examine himself in order to determine why he truly made the choices he did, and how to avoid those same choices in the future.
My IC took me down a path that took a while to work through. I know my BW was frustrated at my lack of early progress, and at times felt my IC was enabling me to stay in a place I needed to get out of. In truth, my IC had figured out that I was a conflict avoider early on. He used some pretty cool skills to slowly bring me around without feeling like I was being confronted with my faults shouting at me. The truth kind of snuck up on me until one day - poof! - there it was so clear I couldn't avoid it.
If your WS isn't the proactive type, then it's unlikely that he can figure out on his own what he is supposed to do. Yet just telling him what you need feels like you are handing him answers, and he might be doing them without really believing of committing to them, right?
So how about this? What if you were to figure out some questions to ask him? Questions that would lead him to the actions he needs to take. He ends up "discovering" what he needs to do on his own, or at least that's the way it feels to him. The more success he has, the more he invests in additional efforts.
So instead of saying "I need you to give me all your passwords", you could ask "if you could give me access to things that would allow me to see for certain that you are NC, what tools do you think I would need to see? Email? Your cell? Now given those tools, how could you go about helping me regain my trust in you by letting me see there is no reason to hide anything?".
You questions may differ completely, but this would be the approach I would think would work best.
What would it/did it take to get you to fess up to eveything?
I'm not sure my answer will fully help you. In my case, I knew clearly the consequences because my BW had no hidden agendas. She also had a long history of doing exactly what she said. A few lies came out on D-Day, which were immediately met with evidence proving they were lies. I had exactly 48 hours to pick a path (counseling or D). And if the path was counseling, it had to be based on the full truth.
I have seen many posts here that talk about the gathering of evidence, not revealing sources of information to a WS for fear they will go underground, etc. My experience has been that this kind of "evidence concealment" delays the process of cutting to the core. Instead, going straight to the WS, showing the evidence and stating the proof that the WS was lying makes the message very clear. At that point, provided you intend to follow through, you can state that everything must be the truth from the WS from that moment forward. Any lie will be met with D papers - end of story.
When you are firm and clear with the consequences a WS will face, it gives them no choice but to comply or get out.
When H was in the throws of his A (unbeknownst to me), we had the best sex of our marriage (hell, better than even before that). I was shocked when I found out about the A because I honestly thought that we had hit a new level in intimacy. He was really great and I enjoyed being with him imensely.
Now...well, let's just say that things are pretty quick and farily non-satisfying for me.
I'm afraid that the most intimate and wonderful sex that we ever had (or ever will have) was when he was with someone else.
Can anyone shed some light on why this may have happened? I'm very confused about it am getting very frustrated at the fact that now it's gone and we can't seem to get it back.
"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."
now imagine the thing you love most.
would you compare them?
I have been moving on after 3 months of hell that I would never thought could happen, he was such a morally honest man. We had much in common and rarely had big disagreements. He has been finding excuses to contact me through text, email and (1 visit) on about a weekly basis, since I got over initial shock and stopped contacting him.
I accept that many of my feelings are now actually normal feelings of divorce. The door is closing for me...
Why is he checking in with me, no real conversation or anything but contacting me about unnecessary things?
Is there anything that I can say to him to shock him or wake him from this? so that before the door is completely closed I could talk to the man I had known for more than 10 years. (not this stranger he's become)
Last question, if he's in such a "fog" as to allow this to happen to us/ me, how does he function to be able to work and other responsibilities?
[This message edited by SooooSad at 3:47 PM, June 20th (Saturday)]
The 13 months from d day.....not married, dating for 3 plus yrs and he had a month long affair with a MW we both had known for a very short time. The above is an email he sent to her 13 days after he had made the original NC phone call after she had emailed or texted him several times to try and continue contact. I am asking some insight to this email from Waywards. Was he leaving the door open, just trying to stay the nice guy in her eyes but maintaining NC request....I am just very curious from those of you who have been there what was he really saying in this note? I so deal with the thoughts that I am the second place prize because she was married and not free to be with him. I believe there has been NC since July 08 when he responded very vaguely to another set of texts she sent trying to reestablish contact. We have very much struggled the last 13 months trying to R but it is so hard. I am not sure I will ever be able to truly forgive and trust.