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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, June 4th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kicking in my $ .02 Jewel. Same here. What my brain thought was love was really a desperate clinging to an addiction to xMOW. The words were said, but they were said "under the influence".

I think the best resources that helped me regain my perspective on love were "After the Affair" and "The Five Love Languages".

"After the Affair" helped me to sort out the difference between romantic love and mature love. It helped me lock in on a mature love for my BW.

"The Five Love Languages" helped me to understand the differences in how my BW and I "received" love and the changes I could make that would mean something to her. You can believe love represents something all you want. But if you show it in a language that is different from how your spouse receives it, the feeling of love won't be understood.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
hopingwaiting
♀ Member
Member # 23575
Default  Posted: 8:54 PM, June 4th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, Unexpected Song and Listening Closely. I refrained from calling or emailing WH. I think I knew it wouldn't do any good but just wanted to hear it from a FWS.

I just can't believe he is capable of this. I feel so stuck being pregnant with our child.


BW (Me)-34,
our 1st baby born 7/6/09
WH-34
EA turned PA 8/08-present
D-Day#1 (1/1/09) false R,
D-Day #2 (3/17/09)said he couldn't stop contacting her; told him to move out
married 3.5 years; together 5
status-WH filed for D 6/14/10

Posts: 615 | Registered: Apr 2009
NeedingGodsHelp
♀ Member
Member # 23580
Default  Posted: 1:25 AM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First, I want to thank all of the WS's who reply on this post. Your insight is very valuable to us!


Now look at your own situation. You are pushing the "Anti-A" drug. The one that takes away the high of his A, and has the painful side effects of him facing the damage he has done. While not all WS's will react this way, some will get angry, and even combative because you "took away their high".


The analogy of addiction seems to make a little more sense to me in that the combativeness comes from taking his high away when he is faced with me.

So, now my question is... is this something that I can expect will be the way he treats me and relates to me from now on, since he is deep in his affair and says he has no desire to come home?

Or can I hope that one day he will at least treat me with respect?

Is the combativeness, anger, and blame something a WS does consciously to intentionally hurt and blameshift?

Does a WS really, truly believe the lies they have convinced themselves about BS and the marriage (rewriting marital history), or on some level do you realize that you are doing it to justify your A?

Will the fog ever lift if he continues in this lifestyle?

[This message edited by NeedingGodsHelp at 1:29 AM, June 5th (Friday)]


BS: me 33
WH: him 33
Married almost 9 yrs, together (off-and-on) 18.5 years
4 kids: 1 mine & 3 ours
DD#1: 2/12/2009 (EA#1)
DD#2: 2/26/2009 (EA/PA w/ tramp#2 - since July 2008)
Status: D 5/2010, Standing, WH living with OW, D filed 4/28/09)

Posts: 440 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Climbing out of hell...
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:28 AM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

is this something that I can expect will be the way he treats me and relates to me from now on, since he is deep in his affair and says he has no desire to come home?

Based on what I went through, the response you are getting will continue as long as he remains focused on OW and as long as you challenge his actions. It may temper over time, but I can't see his response changing until his fantasy world with OW breaks down (either by him or by her).


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for WS (male).... What would you have thought of your wife if she was to be doing to another man what you were doing to your ow? Do you think you could get over it if the shoe were on the other foot and it was YOUR wife that had been involved in an a??

Posts: 2381 | Registered: Sep 2005
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TO -

Tough questions. If my BW had been having an affair, I would clearly have been devastated. No circumstances can reduce the pain felt by a BS, no matter what the conditions are.

Would I be able to bounce back? The reason this is tough is knowing what I know now I know that I could. I could find a path to forgiveness and healing. But that's with the benefit of counseling, reading and some great guidance here on SI.

If it had happened before learning all of that? It would depend on what resources we had available and what we learned over time. Altered actions change results. Given the same resources and healing process I would have healed. Missing pieces of the puzzle though, and things would not have gone well.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Listening"....I just wondered if the WS who was weak enough to get involved in an a in the first place would have the emotional strength that it takes to r if the shoe were on the other foot. It seems that the WS turned BS always seem to be hit very hard when it happens to them.

Thank you, as always for your honesty.


Posts: 2381 | Registered: Sep 2005
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, June 9th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey TO, I didn't answer your question because I'm a woman, but you said "a WS who was weak enough to get into an affair in the first place"...

I wonder that about myself. I have such poor self esteem and am such an external validator. I wonder if my H had had an affair if it would have crushed me beyond repair. I'm much stronger now, but I don't know if I would have had the strength that he has shown since finding out I betrayed him.


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, June 9th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been trying to find a way to express what it is I am wondering for some time now. So here it goes.

We are in R - or at least I think we are (after being in FR for 5 months) It has been 7 months since that ended and we are in real R I hope.

But see - I put "I hope". I have seem some real changes in FWH. He's much more "there" for me, but of course it's not perfect.

He is a person who has a very difficult time expressing himself and getting in touch with his feelings (FOO issues he is seeing and IC for). I do see him trying. Conflict avoider, passive aggressive - all the stuff.

As I said, there have been changes - however small - I see an effort.

Are there any WS who have a very difficult time expressing themselves and just wish that the A topic would not come up. How do you balance the BS almost obsessive need to talk about it with the FWH want to move on? This is really a place where I am stuck.

I guess I read about other FWS who have really gone to great lengths to make their BS feel secure (doing WHATEVER it takes). My FWH is much more passive - waiting for me to bring it up.

He read what I asked him to read - nothing more. He goes to IC cause that was a dealbreaker. We go to MC and he actually thinks that's effective (but I'm pretty sure that's because it focuses on both of us). There just seems to me to be a real desire to avoid self reflection - I think it makes him feel disgusted. But doesn't he NEED to do that.

Is it maturity and self esteem that makes a person pro-active or is it just an inborn personality?


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
MyEndlessTears
♀ Member
Member # 23713
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, June 10th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What would it/did it take to get you to fess up to eveything? As those who know my posts know, I am still struggling with EA/PA question. My FWH insists it wa just an EA (with kissing) but no sex. I have done all the detective work I'm gonna do. He has had NC since DDAY without a backwards glance and has been truly remorseful and transparent. If he did have sex with her, he will likely take it to his grave. If he is hiding it, how do I get him to finally admit it?


ME: BS (51)
HIM: FWH (51)
MARRIED: 31 years, together 35
DDAY: 9/27/08
EA AND PA, 1 year
multiple DDAYS:9 months of trickle truth & counting
Reconciling

"An EA is just a PA you don't know about yet." (MET)


Posts: 374 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: NYC
Stillpondering
♂ Member
Member # 23600
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, June 10th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS here - I have a questions which is somewhat the opposite of that posed by MyEndlessTears. Since supposedly the saying goes that men trade love for sex and women trade sex for love, I'm wondering for the WW's out there - did you tell the other man you loved him? My wife's affair lasted for about 15 months although it was only 6 different physical encounters due to geography (only happened at conferences) and while she admits she was clearly infatuated and addicted to the feelings, she says she never told him she loved him. I find that somewhat hard to believe as she left me and our 1 month old newborn at home for the last encounter so she could go be with him at this conference - effectively cutting short her maternity leave.

Posts: 77 | Registered: Apr 2009
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:50 PM, June 10th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom -

He definitely needs to examine himself in order to determine why he truly made the choices he did, and how to avoid those same choices in the future.

My IC took me down a path that took a while to work through. I know my BW was frustrated at my lack of early progress, and at times felt my IC was enabling me to stay in a place I needed to get out of. In truth, my IC had figured out that I was a conflict avoider early on. He used some pretty cool skills to slowly bring me around without feeling like I was being confronted with my faults shouting at me. The truth kind of snuck up on me until one day - poof! - there it was so clear I couldn't avoid it.

If your WS isn't the proactive type, then it's unlikely that he can figure out on his own what he is supposed to do. Yet just telling him what you need feels like you are handing him answers, and he might be doing them without really believing of committing to them, right?

So how about this? What if you were to figure out some questions to ask him? Questions that would lead him to the actions he needs to take. He ends up "discovering" what he needs to do on his own, or at least that's the way it feels to him. The more success he has, the more he invests in additional efforts.

So instead of saying "I need you to give me all your passwords", you could ask "if you could give me access to things that would allow me to see for certain that you are NC, what tools do you think I would need to see? Email? Your cell? Now given those tools, how could you go about helping me regain my trust in you by letting me see there is no reason to hide anything?".

You questions may differ completely, but this would be the approach I would think would work best.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, June 10th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MyEndlessTears -

What would it/did it take to get you to fess up to eveything?

I'm not sure my answer will fully help you. In my case, I knew clearly the consequences because my BW had no hidden agendas. She also had a long history of doing exactly what she said. A few lies came out on D-Day, which were immediately met with evidence proving they were lies. I had exactly 48 hours to pick a path (counseling or D). And if the path was counseling, it had to be based on the full truth.

I have seen many posts here that talk about the gathering of evidence, not revealing sources of information to a WS for fear they will go underground, etc. My experience has been that this kind of "evidence concealment" delays the process of cutting to the core. Instead, going straight to the WS, showing the evidence and stating the proof that the WS was lying makes the message very clear. At that point, provided you intend to follow through, you can state that everything must be the truth from the WS from that moment forward. Any lie will be met with D papers - end of story.

When you are firm and clear with the consequences a WS will face, it gives them no choice but to comply or get out.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, June 10th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MyEndlessTears,
Basically an ultimatum worked for me. Similar to LC, I had about 48 hrs, tell all or it is over.
I knew that my BS meant it, and although he didn't disclose his source at the time, the info he had made me realize, if he didn't know everything already, he most certainly would find out anyway.
Now here's he part that really doesn't feel good to admit...I was so scared, but also Mad (fog). I didn't want to lose him, so I decided to tell all, but also part of my reason for telling was my anger, I got that attitude, like OK you wanna hear it all? I'm gonna give it to ya.
And I did, everything, and then I wrote a timeline. That was so hard.
I hate that part of the reason I told all was out of anger, but I am so glad I did.
And I'm not sure at the time I would have told all if I hadn't had the anger. I hadn't been here yet so I didn't realize how important full disclosure was.
when I wrote the timeline, I did understand how important it was. I understood that leaving even one tiny detail out would make the whole thing worthless.
Don't know if I helped, but writing that helped me.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
funny story
♀ Member
Member # 16855
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, June 12th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question that I would really like some light shed on:

When H was in the throws of his A (unbeknownst to me), we had the best sex of our marriage (hell, better than even before that). I was shocked when I found out about the A because I honestly thought that we had hit a new level in intimacy. He was really great and I enjoyed being with him imensely.

Now...well, let's just say that things are pretty quick and farily non-satisfying for me.

I'm afraid that the most intimate and wonderful sex that we ever had (or ever will have) was when he was with someone else.

Can anyone shed some light on why this may have happened? I'm very confused about it am getting very frustrated at the fact that now it's gone and we can't seem to get it back.


(me) BW - (33)
WH - (37)
Married: 11 years
Children: DD - 11, DS - 8
D-Day: September 22, 2007

"I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."


Posts: 2128 | Registered: Nov 2007
rosieposy
♀ New Member
Member # 21977
Default  Posted: 4:19 PM, June 12th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question... I am still very confused about how I feel toward my FWxH, he is still holding on and wanting R. Which is great, I have seen huge changes this last year (I can't believe it has already been a yr) and at times I have really wanted to be intimate with him but then the q's of "did he do this with ow?" would come to my head, I never asked but it always messed things up, I could not finish or I would stop very fast. My question is do you FWS ever compare your spouse to OP? I guess I am afraid that I am not as good as OW (I hate the fact that there is another W out there that knows what my H feels like!!)thanks for your answer.


BS (me)32 WS (him)35
OW 24
Married 14 yrs together 16 yrs
Divorced since 1-1-09
DDay 5-7-08, Lifes not so Rosy anymore

Posts: 17 | Registered: Dec 2008
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 10:43 PM, June 12th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

funnystory,
I think there are 2 reasons (culd be more but these make sense to me)
1, he wanted you to assume all was well, so as to avoid questions
2. his self esteem was being built up so he flt more sexual.
I have found that the more sex we have , the more we want.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
Maia
♀ Member
Member # 8268
Default  Posted: 12:01 AM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rosie - imagine the thing you are most ashamed of.

now imagine the thing you love most.

would you compare them?


We will miss you Unicornsearcher. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xf-Lesrkuc

Posts: 6152 | Registered: Sep 2005 | From: I am a Bluegrass-American
SooooSad
♀ New Member
Member # 24355
Default  Posted: 10:12 PM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After some self revelation, I'm changing my post. My H suddenly wanted apartment b/c "unhappy", didn't want "responsibility" etc...which led to discussion of divorce and ultimately divorce b/c he refused that there was OW, counseling to figure out unhappiness or anything. I found out about OW shortly after and proof of A for at least this same span of time, probably at least a couple months before. This whole thing unfolded in only 3 months.

He's 35 and he wanted divorce, though he seemed confused at times, still insisted...I really felt like someone else was making decisions for him (like OW) We began as great friends, then dated for years and married for 5yrs, We had much extra stress (less communication) during the last several months due to family deaths, weddings, busy projects, etc. The little that I know about OW is she dresses inappropriately at work, enough to be sent home to change at least once. exH has some self-esteem/ worth issues. (they're co-workers) Both have obvious boundary issues.

I have been moving on after 3 months of hell that I would never thought could happen, he was such a morally honest man. We had much in common and rarely had big disagreements. He has been finding excuses to contact me through text, email and (1 visit) on about a weekly basis, since I got over initial shock and stopped contacting him.

I accept that many of my feelings are now actually normal feelings of divorce. The door is closing for me...

Why is he checking in with me, no real conversation or anything but contacting me about unnecessary things?

Is there anything that I can say to him to shock him or wake him from this? so that before the door is completely closed I could talk to the man I had known for more than 10 years. (not this stranger he's become)

Last question, if he's in such a "fog" as to allow this to happen to us/ me, how does he function to be able to work and other responsibilities?

[This message edited by SooooSad at 3:47 PM, June 20th (Saturday)]


Me - BS
He - WS, divorced 5-12-09
SooooSad was my married name after the A, I'll have to get that changed since we aren't married and it no longer applies.

Posts: 13 | Registered: Jun 2009
thehurtgoeson
♀ New Member
Member # 24398
Default  Posted: 9:20 AM, June 14th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At some point I will feel comfortable enough to call you but not yet. I appreciate your willingness to come forward with your feelings. I appreciate you acknowledging my softball exploits as well as my upcoming birthday. It has been difficult to keep my word to (name) by not communicating with you. My feelings are still strong for you but I cannot let us go back to where we were in May. I continue to deny and bury those feelings because that is the only way I am able to get through this. I hope you do not think I am being a jerk about this but only doing what is fair to our significant others.

The 13 months from d day.....not married, dating for 3 plus yrs and he had a month long affair with a MW we both had known for a very short time. The above is an email he sent to her 13 days after he had made the original NC phone call after she had emailed or texted him several times to try and continue contact. I am asking some insight to this email from Waywards. Was he leaving the door open, just trying to stay the nice guy in her eyes but maintaining NC request....I am just very curious from those of you who have been there what was he really saying in this note? I so deal with the thoughts that I am the second place prize because she was married and not free to be with him. I believe there has been NC since July 08 when he responded very vaguely to another set of texts she sent trying to reestablish contact. We have very much struggled the last 13 months trying to R but it is so hard. I am not sure I will ever be able to truly forgive and trust.


Posts: 2 | Registered: Jun 2009
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