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User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I V
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, December 24th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's hard, but it's the only way to freedom for ourselves. Freedom from obsession, freedom from pain, freedom from trying to live someone else's life rather than our own.
Thanks BT. Your message hit home here.

Welcome newbies to the club nobody wants to join.
{{{LTA}}} Holiday hugs for all... for the strong support and the strength we get from each other.

I have this inner determination not to let any of this LTA crap take away my love of the holiday.

FnF, I'm with you but it ain't easy, for sure! Can't say I'm succeeding but I'm trying. Holidays are a rough time.

LH2, you wrote what I'm feeling...

WN, LH2 is right, you’ve done exceptionally well so far.

and HS - good for you to be in F&G... plus getting away to the Caribbean. I'm SOOOO envious. It's -27C and the snow shovel gets a daily workout. "Baby, it's cold outside" is the norm here.

Weepy, I too have lasagne to make for tonight at our daughter's. It's the inlaws' turn to have Christmas day so our family celebration is tonight. Tomorrow I'll cook a turkey for small group - m-i-l, s-i-l, and a cousin w/bf.

Big News!!! 2 new grandbabies in 2009! Middle DS & d-i-l are expecting a son in March. Our daughter & s-i-l will annouce a July grandbaby tonight. FWH and I have known for a few weeks but they want to announce to family tonight. Just wanted to end on a happy note, hopefully to get my own spirits up for the rest of the day. And good wishes for the new year ahead for all of us.

Can't say it better than UKg:
Sending love to each and every one of the Tribe. I’d be a total basket case w/o you (as it is, I’m just a bit of one!) X0X0X0X0X


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, December 24th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostHeart

Wishing you the very best for your first holiday season in your new home. Relax and enjoy it.

*********
Lostsuol,

-27 degrees? That's obscene. I hope you have plenty of wood for the fire. Or perhaps just the thought of those two new grandbabies is enough to keep you warm. Congratulations!!!

**********
UK,

Good to hear from you. Sorry your husband dropped the ball. That sounds like an overwhelming amount of work to do for the holidays. Now i see why you were contemplating a holiday away. I vote for that for next year.

********
Lovin,

I'm sorry you feel your posts are not always appreciated. Personally, I think your optimism, and your unfailing drive to seek the positive and to enjoy life are inspiring to all of us.

*****
Shirley, enjoy your time with H and the kids. That sounds like a great time.

******
Whatnow,

I wish I could tell you that you will get over the feeling that your H got away with something. I still have touches of that, even though i know that the thought of the man he was and the things he did sickens my H now.

Above just about anything, I hate being played for a fool and that is just what my H did and in the worst way possible. I can't imagine a time where that will not bother me. But you get to a point where you realize that you have to get beyond it, not for him, but for you.

Some people decide that the only or the best way to do that is by ending the relationship with the cheater and starting anew. Some people decide they would rather focus on the here and now with a remorseful and changed WS. (Course you need a changed and remorseful WS for that to work.) Either option is acceptable IMO. The only one that isn't is to dwell on the hurt and the pain and allow it to keep you stuck in the devastation indefinitely.

I know your d-day was only in March, so that puts you in the discovery and assimilation stage. You're rewriting the history of your life and your marriage with this new information and it sucks. It also takes a long while to do and it shouldn't be rushed. But it helps to know, I think, that this is not a situation in which you are powerless. In fact, the opposite it true. Eventually, you are going to be able to make choices that will determine the course of your future. And the most important ones concern the decisions you make about your attitudes.

One of the worst parts of being a BS to me was learning how little control I had over my marriage. One of the best parts of healing from all this betrayal is learning how much power I have over myself, and just how important that power is. The trauma of betrayal takes that knowledge away from us, if we ever had it to begin with. When we focus on ourselves, we begin to gain that power back. That's what I'm wishing for you.

***********
Merry Christmas everyone.

BT

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 9:20 PM, December 24th (Wednesday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, December 24th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MIL (also turned out to be FWW…..) phoned as I was logging off to go get dinner done. 40mins later, I got off. Aaaarrgghhh! That woman! I said that H was supposed to be doing Christmas this year, except that he was using the “I have to earn a living” card. Well, she said, that’s how it’s always been. Oh boy. Should I have actually said to her that for five consecutive Christmases when they were here enjoying our hospitality, her son was using every excuse to nip off to have little verbal intimacies with his ex-fucking-gf??? Or that maybe instead of having his little fuck fests with her, he should have thought a little more about his family that he was putting on the line and used that time instead for his boys?

I don’t know what to say to her since I found out. I really don’t. I enjoyed those Christmases. Now they just feel fake. And I feel an idiot. Tomorrow, we are doing things slightly differently. We are getting up late, breakfasting around 10, going on a pub crawl (DS1 insisting – free drinks!), coming back for dinner around 4pm or later, opening presents probably at the dinner table and then watching Dark Knight. And I shall find some alone time to exorcise that Christmas demon. And curse that stupid OW for being so gullible.

Sorry. Bad time right now. Especially now that the frenetic run around is finished. Crashing and burning. Just hope I hold it together for the boys.

When we focus on ourselves, we begin to gain that power back.

I have been finding that out in IC. And that it is FWH who is stuck, not me. He wants it all to be as it was before which just isn’t possible. That’s why he reneged on Christmas.

Weepy, I too have lasagne to make for tonight

That’s what we had – thought I’d make it easy with not knowing who’d be in or when. And a tricolour for starters. Easy stuff. And enough for some supper when they come in at some ungodly hour!

Congrats on the news! New babies = new beginnings. Innocent and gorgeous. And they smell so good, wish they could bottle it for a bath fragrance. Babies smell of peace. I love it. And those little pouty lips. So sweet. Hope all goes well.

Well, get off to bed I suppose. FWH has had such a hard time he had to have a nap this pm, then fell asleep on the sofa around 9.30, and went off to bed before 11. Next Christmas his present might be a booking into a nursing home! G’night, hope Santa brings some lovely gifts for you all.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 6:03 PM, December 24th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, December 25th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:01 AM, December 26th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How did everyone’s day go? You okay WN?

Mine was nowhere as near as bad as I had feared. A different sort of Christmas Day, but it was okay. I stole off with FWH’s private phone in the afternoon and – nothing! Hooray! I really thought that stupid bitch would feel compelled to send the Happy Christmas I miss you crap. And I checked the log, so he hadn’t received and deleted without me knowing.

When we went to bed I said thank you to him. For not making a big deal about it all really.

FWH did loads towards the day and was up clearing the kitchen this morning. It’s taken him hours, but I just left him to it.

Off out for a pre-dinner stroll into town and the pub. Still feeling strangely relieved. And half waiting for a strike from out of the blue.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, December 26th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Glad to hear that your Christmas was smooth & uneventful UKG.

I did okay- thanks for asking.


WH & I talked some on the ride home Christmas eve about OW#2- me wondering how/what she's doing- what she thinks about WH & the kids ie: misses them, doesn't care, etc. We talked a bit about the Christmas gift he gave her last year.
The only time I really had a problem was last night when we were finishing opening gifts to each other. WH just happened to say that we will have been dating/together for 10 years come New Years Eve this year. I stopped for a minute and thought- ever since D-day I've been referring to our 10 year realationship when it was actually just over 9 years when D-day occured. So, it instantly made me realize that his A's went on for 1/3 of our relationship- over half of how long we had been married. It was just shocking to have the "numbers" change and it makes me wonder how much can be left....how faithful can he be? Whatever relationship I thought we had really wasn't. I hear many people on SI say- "If I were younger, I would run out the door." And it really makes me wonder- I know other people don't matter and everyone's situation is different and unique....it's the worry of wasting years when we only have 1 life to live. I do however, also remember HS telling me that at least WH had years to work on himself so we had years to look forward to. So...I guess it's all how you can view things.


Anyways...WH works until tomororow at 8PM since he had the last 2 days off so I'm cleaning up the house & caring for the kiddos.


Oh ya, UKG- How do you check a cell phone log? Is that difficult or work for certain companies?


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, December 26th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate that “whole marriage has been a lie” feeling. That a parasite was sneaking around inside my relationship and I didn’t notice. That I was taken for granted and for a fool. And somehow the Christmas and New Year period is one of those horrible triggery times. I do wonder why I’m staying when FWH doesn’t seem to want things any different. That he doesn’t want to give me the same sort of attention that was lavished on her. My New Year’s resolution is to be impulsive and to do the things I want to do. I think I have to give up waiting for him to do things for me. Just little things would be nice. Maybe it’s old dogs and new tricks and so just can’t be done.

I meant the call log that’s on his phone. The record of calls/messages made and received. He’s not deleted any of them and as his phone is the same as mine (except diff colour), I know he can’t be selective about the log. He does get an itemised bill, but that obviously won’t show calls/texts received. There are a few “no number”s, but I refuse to get stressed out on that. If that’s what she’s choosing to do, there’s nothing I can do to stop it. I’m just hoping she’s disappeared into the ether like a bad dream.

So, fixing up to manage the New Year's Eve festivities .....


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, December 28th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H said no to the Imago Weekend. After stalling for 2 days, he said that he doesnt think that we are ready. I tried explaining again about it, but his mind was made up.I am incredibly disappointed but have decided to let it go.
I have noticed however a positive note to this: previously he would have halfheartedly agreed and would have sabotaged it in some way, whilst I, sensing this reluctance, would have worked extra hard to make it work. This time, he was honest. Yes, it stung, but at least he was true to himself and me.So some progress...

BT, we are still settling down, a month later.
I am trying to do this the right way instead of rushing to complete everything like theres some expected universal time line that I am being measured against and am failing, which is how I was previously. So in spite of family intervention (with good intentions), I am still holding true to me.

Funny story:
The day before we moved, my mum offered to move some of our light stuff here and start unpacking with my sister, whilst I continued packing up in the old house. I was horrified: I hadnt done "my stuff" yet and I was insistent that nobody was moving in anything until I did "my stuff".So I rushed off to the shops, came here armed with my new broom, salt, fresh bread and smudge spray: "cleansed" the house by myself, then gave the go-ahead to everyone else. I know that there was alot of inward eye-rolling and "Where does she pick up these things?", but I was . My way.

***
Happy holidays everyone.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, December 28th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was just shocking to have the "numbers" change and it makes me wonder how much can be left....how faithful can he be? Whatever relationship I thought we had really wasn't

WN, My H began his LTA with OW#1 2 years before we married, so I can understand your pain.

Just try to take it one step at a time. I used to be feel absolutely gutted and fill up with despair when I would look at the whole picture. I know we need to grieve what we lost and what we thought we had, but sometimes, it can be so dehabilitating, esp around trigger laden times. So my advice to you WN, to try to get through the holidays relatively intact is:
Acknowledge past bad memories, like you are on a train passing by stations, then let them go once you have passed them. Later on, after the holidays, you can stop over and explore them, when you will be feeling less vulnerable. Makes sense?

(((((Whatnow)))))

****

I hope that its been quiet here because the Tribe are all caught up with creating new happy memories and are looking forward to a new year.

2009! Wow.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
fadingmemories
♀ Member
Member # 20531
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, December 28th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,
Wanted to stop in and wish you all happy holidays. Just want to share a small success. Yesterday was our wedding anniversary, the first since Dday. I was dreading this for months. what do you do with a day that celebrates a relationship that is dead. We are doing very well in R but as my IC says we are not repairing that marriage but begining a new one because after a 12 yr LTA that marriage is too broken....
I felt strongly that I could not spend that day with my H, I could not even look him in the eye. My IC gave me a great idea and it really got me through, may even work better for the dday anniversary.
Make it your day. Celebrate your strength. Celebrate that you are in a wiser place and will never allow yourself to be fooled again. Celebrate that you have made it this far, that you can hold your head up even if it is for a brief time, that you are worth his attention, time and caring. Do this by chosing how you will spend your day and do one thing you have never done before.

Yesterday went like this....

When my husband asked me to come to bed the night before I said no because at midnight would be the begining of 24 hours I would not spend with him. Dec 27 would be the day to remind both of us that I could forgive but would really never forget. I told him I would be gone when he got up.
I would be safe but I wanted NC for 24 hours so I could think.
I left the house at 7am and went out for coffee, sat and drank it slowly while I read a favorite book. I went into work for a few hours (even though I am on vacation)to catch up on some tasks and organize my desk for the new year. At lunchtime I went to a local indoor pool, sat in the hot tub and then took a vigorous swim. I then returned a couple of gifts that needed exchanging. Then I went and had a facial! (I had never done anything like that before!) I'm not sure I liked having some stranger rub my face for that amount of time but I sure liked the way my skin felt afterwards. This is where something amazing happened. As i was getting dressed (who knew you have to take off your top to have a facial, I would have worn a better bra!) I caught sight of myself in the mirror and I saw a calm, lovely woman and she seemed to be two or three inches taller with straight shoulders. I went on with my day by meeting a friend for dinner, going to a movie and then finally stopping in at another friends house and visiting. I went home at 12:15am...it was now the 28th.

My H was a mess, disheveled, unshaven...hadn't eaten all day. When I asked him what he did all day he said he looked at family pictures of when the kids were little and realized how much he missed. He said he spent the day so lonely and said he realizes the only life that makes him happy is the one that we share. I held him for a long time before we both slept. Thank you to my IC for a brilliant suggestion and thank all of you for letting me share
Have a safe and Hapy New Year


Me BS
Him FWS
Married 25 Years  Together 31
LTA 12 years
DDay 4/11/08
R 2/14/09
"No matter if you think you can or you can't...either way you are right"
Scars do not form on the dying...
only on the survivors.



Posts: 315 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: North East
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, December 28th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH2- Sorry to hear of your disappointment of missing the Imago weekend but kudos for you for focusing on the progress made.

__________

UKG- When you mentioned cell log- I thought you meant that you could somehow see if he had deleted something from his cell ie: calls or texts

_________

FM- So glad to hear that you were pleased by your anniversary. Sounds like a nice day of time away & some pampering. And also, the advantage of having your WH be a little bit more appreciative, eh?

________

My IC recommended I read Co-dependent no More by Melody Beattie so I have been working on that. Some of it I can relate to- other parts not so much, but it has got my brain thinking anyways.

I was really upset last night & earlier today. One of the acquantances/"friends" that used to come to our bi-weekly poker games that happened the entire time of the A randomly wrote to me on myspace. WH had informed me after D-day that this person also knew of the A. I thought maybe this person either needed to say something, or ask me something so I wrote him and point blank asked him why he had requested to be my "friend" on myspace. He sent a nice message back- not mentioning anything about the A or that I now knew- He is best friends with the "friend" I mentioned a while back that went on to have an A with OW#1 and would discuss their A's with my WH on a daily basis. Anyways....this guy who randomly wrote me admitted he had known all along and why he couldn't say anything. He included a bunch of "LOL's" in his message. I had asked if he had also had sex with OW#2 because it was jokingly discussed once or twice- His response to that was no, but he had thought about stealing her from my WH. His responses really upset me and I tried to explain to him how upsetting it all is- that this A business is not all fun & games & sex like he & his friends obviously see it. Anyways....I probably shouldn't have engaged but continue to be dumb founded by how SO many people could know of this A and never tell me. How OW#2 could be so cruel to become my friend, live in my home, and somehow live with her decisions of what she was doing....and all these people who knew, OW#1 included would all come over every other week to MY f'in house and enjoy our company and play a game. All the memories....the the levels of betrayal are killing me. How can people be so cruel & inconsiderate? I just truly don't understand what is wrong with people. It makes me really angry and then angry at WH because he put me here.

Strangely enough- after getting upset about that I have this really bizarre reaction of, Why was I the only outsider of this little outside world? Why was I not special enough to be part of the chaos & mess. Why was I excluded? All the other friends were screwing over their own friends & wives but why wasn't I ever propositioned? I know how horrible that sounds and I'm certainly glad I wasn't in the mix but it makes me feel so alone and worthless. The level of dis-respect that my WH brought upon me, my home, my life is killing me right now. Today I have transitioned back & forth between being so angry & hurt & crying to enjoying the day and playing around sexually.

I had purchased new bedding for our bed to rid ourselves of OW#2....yesterday though amid all this mess while making the bed with the new bedding I thought- what difference does it make to have new bedding when the person who created all of this will be laying on my new bedding? This person, WH brings forth the body that gave & received pleasure from those whores in my bed.....does it really matter that I have new bedding? We debated on what to do with the old bedding and I thought well, she's used some of our other sheets too but I don't remember which ones....they've had sex on my bed which includes them using my pillows I'm sure....so why do I try? I can rid this house & myself of everything so I'm really not sure it matters. My couches are still here, my kitchen countertop where she bent over for sex, the garage, the playroom where the guestroom used to be, the bathroom where she used to take daily baths......I want to give up, I can't stop the pain...I don't know to control it, no matter what I try to do seems to be wrong.....I don't know how to go on. I don't know how to focus on me when I can't get over the pain to live in my house, move forward with my M with my WH.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, December 28th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fading,

What a wonderful story and an awesome suggestion from your IC. I'm so glad it turned out so well for you.

************
Lost,

I'm sorry he said no for right now. Maybe ask again in a six months.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, December 29th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all. Just checking in. Another busy week planned with working both jobs today, working tomorrow and maybe even Wednesday.

H had off all 4 days with Christmas. We did nothing but watch videos. I'd forgotten some parts of some of them and wondered why I didn't even consider the cheating was going on. H gets very quiet during those parts or suddenly finds a reason to go to the kitchen. If it's TV, he changes the channel,unless he thinks I'm absorbed in my book. If I shift or lift my head to the TV, he goes into censoring action. I find myself not really triggering knowing he's aware that it's uncomfortable for me. I don't know how he is away from me, probably joining right in with the guys, but I'm pretty sure he's keenly aware that it isn't really a laughing matter.

We still have huge communication issues. Huge fight right before Christmas and even on Christmas, one of those "I'm right, you're not" ones. Even with a witness this time who sat there and sided with me saying "But that's not what you said". He stood firm and I just shrugged it off with the last word of "I'm right, you know it, I don't understand why you're so stubborn about it." Yesterday he tried again, but I refused to get into it with him.

This week I'm going to go get everything I wanted on my list that didn't appear. H did get me some "black diamond" earrings which are very nice, but I could have used the leather gloves more.

Time to toddle off to work. I'll check back in when I can before New Years.

What are we all going to wish for ourselves?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, December 29th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well I made it through the holidays (thanks to everyone for your hugs and encouragement)with no major meltdowns. I wasn't 100% successful in keeping out the negative thoughts and memories but it was a very busy holiday and I was surrounded by my family and those I love most in the world.
I am feeling a little down though. I just can't shake this feeling that the magic has gone from my M and even though I definitely want to stay in my M, I miss so much that feeling of our M being special. I think more than that though I miss being so in love with my H. I love him but I see him so differently and there is always this underlying sadness and disappointment where he is concerned. I can't imagine ever feeling the way I used to feel, KWIM?
FM - I loved your post. It was both beautiful and sad at the same time. I am so glad you had such a special day for yourself and that in doing that your H took this day to see what his life would be like without you. This is what made me sad for you and for all of us. These FWS's have changed our lives forever and for what? And when they finally see what they could have lost and come to appreciate and love us, we are changed and they cannot bring back that pure and innocent love that once was theirs alone.
I am being such a downer today and I'm sorry but I hope it's ok to voice what I have been going through.
I guess I've come to the realization after 3 years of R that the love I once felt for my H just doesn't seem to be coming back and this has made me very sad. I can sit here and tell you that R is going very well, that my H is still working hard to repair the damage he has done to our M, and that for the most part, I no longer have major meltdowns. What I cannot say though is that even with all of this I feel the love and contentment I thought I would after getting through the worst of my healing. It is more of an emptiness and I am trying to figure out why I am not more content knowing that my M has survived.
Maybe this is another phase of the healing process. It's just that I feel I can never again look at my H and feel the utter satisfaction of knowing that he is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with or that I am the woman he loves above all others.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, December 29th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostH – he said no? That is such a shame when it sounds just up your street. Do you think it’s all to do with looking to himself and how he relates to you that is scaring him off? I’m sorry, LostH, I know it’s the sort of thing you were hoping for. Just hope the new home has come with all the positive vibes for you all. And well done you for getting the new home swept before you moved in – just the sort of thing I would do! Kind of like clearing a cluttered dining table before you can lay it.

WN, My H began his LTA with OW#1 2 years before we married, so I can understand your pain.
It’s odd. H had his relationship with OW before he met me, but somehow it was never “finished”. Since dday and since I found out just how their relationship was the first time around, I feel she has been there all throughout our marriage. He was with her for nine years in total and with me for 29, so she has taken up a large percentage of his life and, what’s more, he was with her at the times when he was emotionally charged. Adolescence and then the MLC – for five fucking years. I do feel deprived and therefore resentful of the intensity he had with her.

And last night we had confrontation where things used to be so easy. People would comment about us moving around in the kitchen and getting a dinner organised. It was awkward to say the least. We bumped into each other, he did prep stuff which was wrong, I missed out on ingredients, the timing was wrong, the sauce failed, I didn’t want him in the kitchen. I don’t think we have complimented each other in the way we work around food since soon after dday. First of all, I have lost all interest in gourmet cooking, I do not want anyone over for dinner and it seems to have become the battle ground.And I was not going to let him fully prepare and cook any part of the meal. That is now a no-no. Soooo, we kept stopping, looking at each other and in the end I said “this being together isn’t working”. He agreed. There’s a barrier and I don’t know what to do. The way he’s behaving is making me wonder if she has tried contacting him again. Or him her......

Fading, Thanks for sharing. I can totally relate. My 50th birthday was two weeks before the first dday antiversary. FWH had been with MOW for her 50th the year before and they had been together either side of WH’s 50th the autumn before. So I booked myself in to a three day treat at a health spa. Frankly, I didn’t care that he was upset. On the second wedding anni after dday (the first year I was still in shock), I went to 4xM friend on the coast for three days. We had a very nice dinner on the anniversary date. Like you, I feel the old marriage is broken beyond repair, effectively I feel divorced. I’m so pleased you did this for yourself, fading. He had too many years of doing what he selfishly wanted.

How can people be so cruel & inconsiderate? I just truly don't understand what is wrong with people. It makes me really angry and then angry at WH because he put me here.

And their responses made your WH’s affairs acceptable in his eyes. It sounds like “what’s the big deal?” ignorant reaction when discussing what they were doing. It just makes the people they are playing around with sound like goods and chattel, not human beings. And yet they know in reality it is not acceptable, otherwise you would have been brought into the frame and expected to have the same attitude. Their sense of right and wrong is turned on its head when they think you’ll never know. What you don’t know can’t hurt you. And round and round we go. And the new bedding is for YOU. Find some way of blessing it to make it yours.

This week I'm going to go get everything I wanted on my list that didn't appear. H did get me some "black diamond" earrings which are very nice, but I could have used the leather gloves more.

Cool! I’d rather black diamond earrings anyday. I can get leather gloves in the sale. Earrings are way more romantic and thoughtful. Well, would be for me.

FNF –well done at getting through the worst time. I cannot imagine having every Christmas also being my antiversary. It’s bad enough having the thoughts of them constantly communicating and wishing they could be together instead of with their boring old spouses and boring old families and boring old friends when they could be (fingers down throat) together. The stable, warm and reassuring love I had for my H just isn’t there anymore either. I feel a sharp anger when I think of what he did, how he felt about OW and the plain arrogance of it all, the way he took me for granted and for an idiot. Five months after dday, I wrote this:
The structure that was our relationship has been razed to the ground by the nuclear bomb you constructed and then dropped. I am now experiencing the fall-out and I will either die or be permanently damaged by all of this. You have watched from the protection of your cockpit and have the ability and power to move on and start again if necessary. I will lose my layers of skin, succumb to a cancer of the heart, slowly reveal the ugliest sights of inner guts festering in their wounds, and curse you for your carelessness.
Only time will tell. As to me being the woman he loves above all others, I’d like to know why he had to revisit his first true love to find that out.

Well, duck in soy sauce on a bed of veg risotto to get cooked. that's if it doesn't end up being thrown at FWH!

ETA - err, that was rather long. I must be rambling. Just leave me in the corner with a large glass of wine!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:24 PM, December 29th (Monday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
couldntbeme
♀ Member
Member # 19448
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, December 29th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm 8 months out from dday. H had an EA for 3 years, 2 years of that was also PA. I'll be obsessing years from now about the length of time. If I am to R or forgive, it will truly only happen w/ a force greater than I. I'm reluctantly realizing that separation is the next step, which will most likely lead to D. BUT!!! We have two children and this MUST be our last option.

Both H and I are in IC, we also go to MC (albeit less frequently than the IC.) We've also both read a few post-A self help books.

That being said I am making a desperate plea for direction. I need to know more specifically about Long Term Affairs. I need to hear, read and learn about LTA's. I've been on SI for most of the 8 months and have benefited endlessly, but I'm missing something.

I need answers.
I need something to feel right.
Nothing feels right and I can't make the decision to head toward D w/ two children in the mix without something feeling right.

YEARS???? not months, not some one night stands, not a hooker, not a sex addict...a full fledged relationship.
He had another life.
He changed so so much.
He loved her.
He met her son.
I'll never even know what she looks like b/c there's nothing on the internet and she lives thousands of miles away.

I'm not nearly as fragile as I was 8 months ago, but I feel like I should be farther along. I still get enraged when I let the reality of what's taken place seep in. Mostly I just shut it all out in order to maintain.

I know this was scattered - thanks for letting me rant. If anyone has reading suggestions specific to LTA's I'd appreciate your time.


Posts: 107 | Registered: May 2008
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:33 AM, December 30th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi couldntbeme. First of all, I think we are all looking for impossible answers to unknown questions. Much of what our WS have done and how they have behaved defies anything we have experienced or understand. Nothing feels right because what they did was so wrong. My WH conducted his A so successfully because he is a good actor, natural liar (believes what he says to be true) and arrogant. MOW lives 80-odd miles away which is far enough, but she conveniently lives 20mins off the motorway and en route to many locations. She was nothing to do with our life, his work or his other social circles. She was an ex-gf, but not connected to the other school/uni people he is still in touch with. He told no one. His oldest bf probably suspected, but he was having an LTA too, so was hardly likely to expose him. My H also met up with her family – her older daughter was at a uni north of where we live and MOW introduced them when they had arranged one of their trysts. He was also reintroduced to her parents, brother and half sister. And there is no doubt he loved her – there is all the writing confirming that, however much he had tried to tell me otherwise (“it wasn’t love in the truest sense” hmmm).

You say OW lives thousands of miles away – was that always the case? If so, it would have made the affair easier to manage and would probably have contributed to the length of the affair too. It’s not unusual to be in limboland. Your H is not the man you thought he was and you doubt your instincts and judgment. But please remember that you trusted him and he chose to abuse that. At some point you will have to decide, but only you can do that. All your FWH can do is open himself up to you. The only book (I’m boring here!) that seemed to get through to my H is “Infidelity Crisis: How to regain forgiveness and respect after your affair” by Kate Coston. It’s only available online, it’s cheap and quite short. Other than that (which is not specifically LTA related), I haven’t found any books. Most seem to say that anything more than 6mths is LTA, but here we say 2yrs. And LTAs are a category all of their own. A complete double life.

You are not “missing” anything. It’s the sense of being taken for a ride that is giving you that feeling. And eight months out, you’re doing fine. Soon after dday, I said I’d try for a year on the basis that I had witnessed D’s and it seemed that process would be a year of shit, so I’d use the year to sort myself out and get my ducks lined up if I needed to move into the D arena.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, December 30th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FadingM, well done you.

***
Whatnow,

Why was I the only outsider of this little outside world? Why was I not special enough to be part of the chaos & mess. Why was I excluded?

Why would you have want to be someone who got passed from man to man? Who had such utter contempt and hatred for herself, that she allowed herself to be treated like that?
I think that the fact that you were NOT prepositioned, is actually a HUGE compliment, WN. They sound like a pretty sick bunch.

And I would cut that man off, for your sanity. He is poison. The nerve of him reliving his kicks like that.

Come on, WN! Try to keep it together, Sweetie. Just take it one day at a time.
(((((WN)))))

***

Ukg,

Do you think it’s all to do with looking to himself and how he relates to you that is scaring him off?

I dont know, Ukg. Maybe he is just not ready to tackle anything else at this time. He is so caught up with diy around the house and is investing so much of himself in his tasks. It is so unlike him and I am so proud of him. If he is not ready now, maybe in the future.

***

Weepy, get the gloves AND enjoy the earrings.

Speaking of gloves, I am going to brum a little...lol:

H surprised me the other day. We were spending the day at Kew Gardens and it was freezing. I had not dressed warm enough. He went off on a errand and came back with a warm scarf and leather gloves for me.
I was so chuffed. He has NEVER done anything like that before without being prompted or asking me a 100 questions.

***
Fnf, no words just big big hugs, my friend.

((((((((Fnf)))))))))))

***

BT,


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 6:57 AM, December 30th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am trying to figure out why I am not more content knowing that my M has survived

Hi Fnf. I'm glad to hear we all survived the holiday without major heartache. And I guess that does show healing. But like the scars left from physical hurt, there's nerve damage in those areas and I think that's why our heart will never feel like we did before. And the LTA causes horrendous heart damage. Some days I swear it only beats because I'm alive and breathing.

couldn't be, I barely remember my first Christmas after Dday. I remember what he bought me, one gift anyway and I remember crying at his mother's house later at dinner when the wedding videos were shown. I blamed it on seeing my mother alive in them, but it was really because I knew it was all a lie, or felt that way.

At 8 months I was still raging at him, starting IC and still wanting to drive into the concrete abutment I passed on my way home from work. I looked at it as my gateway out of the pain for almost 2 years,until the meds. There's nothing written specifically about the LTA that I've found. Even our MC told us that we were breaking new ground, that she had never dealt with a LTA + serial cheating and seen the marriage survive or even the betrayed WANT to TRY.

And Fnf I think that speaks to your dilemna. I wonder if we all don't "know" deep down that the M SHOULDN'T be surviving, CAN'T really be saved. THAT will always be my lingering doubt. Not that he'll cheat again. I really believe that part of his life is over, but whether I should have tried or not is my burden. If I go looking for it, the anger is still there, the disappointment, the hurt, the saddness. I'm just trying to get through each day kind of on alert for "THE" thing that will end it. I think that's why we argue so much. I WANT to have it there, in black and white. Why I can't just say "it's because of the women" as my reason, I don't know.

Now, we got interesting news last night. My DD's BF called her father to tell him he had bought her a ring. Yes, THAT ring. He told the boy he'd talk to me and call him back. I don't know what he expected ME to do. I feel the same way as him, but I don't want our cynical view of M to taint what's going to be the biggest day of her life. She's actually going to get a proposal. Neither of us are thrilled with him. He loves her, I can see that. His family adores her. I'm fighting the urge to talk to him like my MIL talked to me before we got married, to warn him. I called the boy when I got home last night from work and asked him some details, like did she know or was it a surprise. He said they'd talked, but she didn't know he had the ring or that he was going to ask her Saturday. When H left for work this morning he asked what we were going to tell him tonight (don't you just love it?) I said "What can we say? Ask him if he loves her enough to handle the pain she's going to inflict on him?" "No, we're going to wish him the best and welcome him to the family. We can discuss the details later."

So, now I feel like I have to stay another 2 years to get her through her wedding. I don't want to be like my parents were at my wedding, divorced with my father bringing his "date" (OW). Well, I hope he'd have a little more class than that.

Gotta run people. See if I'm going to work and I must go food shopping. DS is eating me out of house and home!


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, December 30th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Soooo, we kept stopping, looking at each other and in the end I said “this being together isn’t working”. He agreed. There’s a barrier and I don’t know what to do.

UKG - I feel I know what you are both experiencing as my H and I have these moments too. I honestly believe it is the doubt and fear that both the WS and the BS carries in their hearts that one or the other is going to give up on the M so as a means of protecting ourselves, we put up this "protective self" (as our MC used to say) and it creates a barrier that on some days feels impenetrable.
It sounds like this might be what you were experiencing. I think your H is scared shitless that you might give up on the M and leave him so he is putting up a wall to prevent feeling the pain. Our H's get so discouraged with our inability to "get over" their LTA. My H has said on too many occasions that he thinks eventually I will choose to leave him and sometimes I feel he is watching me so closely it's like a laser penetrating me. Does this sound like this could be your H's fear too? As much as this might sound like bad advice, why not try to reassure him and see if he lets down his wall.
(((UKG)))
LH - Wow - it sounds like your H is really coming through for you. It couldn't happen to a sweeter person. And buying you gloves and a scarf - he is making great progress. I am so happy for you. As to the Imago weekend - give him time. I would just keep praising him for his efforts and maybe one day he will approach you or at least be more open to the idea the next time you decide to ask him.
Thanks LH for you hugs. They mean the world to me. BTW, I just might be heading to your side of the world in February. I'll keep you and UKG posted. Did I tell you that my DIL is pregnant? I'm going to be a granny again!
Weepy - An engagement. Now that's big news. I know you are having serious reservations. I just hope for your sake and your D's that this is the right thing for her. How old is she? You mentioned that you are not crazy about this guy. Is there any specific reason or just a feeling?
I have had two of my children married after d-day. My D was married less than 3 months after and it was one of the hardest things I went through because I had to be excited, and not let her see my fears and the absence of my joy. I cried through her ceremony, especially during their vows. Those words cut through me like a knife and it was killing me. But I will say that I was happy for my D and I knew she was marrying a great guy. If you need to talk you have my number. (((Weepy)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
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