How old is she? You mentioned that you are not crazy about this guy. Is there any specific reason or just a feeling?
DD is 23. Graduated college in Dec 07 and is still not certified to teach, despite our help, her grandmother's money and offers of financial assistance from State agencies. I don't know if she's thinking he can support her while she does her post-bacalauret (sp?) work or not.
He's 23, just graduated in May. Didn't work for 4 months. Finally took a temp position at U of P. He has lofty dreams of working in the film industry. Won't do anything about it though... like it's supposed to fall in his lap. We have given him leads, suggestions (only because he seemed so frustrated by his inability to get a job, we didn't push). He's EXTREMELY accomodating to her. And since she's her father, she'll just run all over him. She's already cheated on him once. I think she wants out of the house more than she's thinking of a marriage for eternity. She just doesn't plan that far in advance.
I'm not saying he's not a nice kid, but just like my MIL told me, he/she needs someone who's going to kick her butt. Obviously being kind and supportive and loving gets you absolutely NO WHERE.
Maybe I'll pop for some pre-M counseling sessions before they go too far with the plans. Tell them I think EVERY couple should do it.
BTW: I also picked up this month's "O" magazine (yeah, I know, I drank the koolaid), but there's an article in there about how to break out of a rut. Basically this woman talks about how hard it is to make change in our life, how it sometimes feels better to be in our mind "cage" than to face the unknown.
So she works with addicts mostly and her "philosophy" breaks down into playing a game of "warmer/colder" in your head. That kids game where you hide an object and tell the person she/he's getting warmer when they get closer and colder if they're not heading in the right direction? ANyway she says to break down what we do by warmer (better) or colder (wrong). If we can't decide, to break it down into smaller components.
Say dinner with the inlaws. Parts are good/parts are bad. So what do you walk towards? The SIL who makes you laugh... hang out with her if being in your MIL's presence is draining. She says you'll naturally be drawn to what's good and comforting for you if you apply this. So I might try. I know I will do things "because I think I should" rather than because I want to. Shoulds are definately "cold". I'm going to try it today, I'll let you know how it goes.
[This message edited by weepy at 11:52 AM, December 30th (Tuesday)]
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 12:57 PM, December 30th (Tuesday)]
and you'd have 'it' waiting on a shelf when I showed up at the right time in the right place.
that's why I'm planning to go to London to visit my son - my H has no interest - fuck it - I'm going!
I know I will do things "because I think I should" rather than because I want to.
I’m still in the “wtf would he be doing in previous years bored out of his brain being with me” tenterhooks mode
Year one afer dday was about taking ten steps back after he gave me his poetry to read, finding references to OW everywhere. Year two was after being away for Christmas only to find things were the same and I doubted his remorse. And my wedding ring had gone missing (to be found later) which I took to be a sign. I think I have to accept that things are never, ever going to be as they were. And that is what I miss most of all and, ironically, what he wants back. I think he lives in a (I hesitate to use the rose word) R-tinted past. But maybe the Rose word is appropriate.
I wish he would DO SOMETHING!!!!!
ETA - Is it the wine .....
[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:21 PM, December 30th (Tuesday)]
Well, dammit, I don't want things the way they were, I want things the way I want them to be!
With an LTA in the mix, how the hell do I know what was the way things were? He apparently was unhappy for "years" (that's a recent revelation) prior to his A. Did he tell me? Fuck no. Do I want to go back to that? Why would I?
What he doesn't "get" is that I still had the butterflies and "OMG I can't believe he's still here" feelings about him even before Dday, despite those awful years. I had that "my H loves only me" rock foundation, which is now crumbled.
If I pull away from him, which is where my "warm" is, then I don't get what I want and he's nasty about it. If I "play along" in my tenderhooks mode, then I don't get what I want and I'm still frustrated, but he's not nasty about it.
I tried the weeks I was away from here to just BE in my M. And I don't like it. I've tried changing me and he doesn't see it or appreciate it. I've tried stroking his ego, giving him props when things are good, telling people in his presence what a wonderful guy he is and that doesn't work either. I'm still "without".
Lately, sitting up late reading has felt warm. But by not being in bed with him, I'm not available if he decides he's interested or wants to cuddle. Which also feels warm. I'm apparently choosing not to be frustrated lying in bed and NOT having anything happen. But if I'm not in bed, then definately nothing is going to happen. Catch 22 anyone?
It's just that I feel I can never again look at my H and feel the utter satisfaction of knowing that he is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with or that I am the woman he loves above all others
I'm not as far out as you....but have the same fear. For me it's the feeling of, getting the short end of the stick- I feel like I'm just waiting for him to meet another woman so he can be swept off his feet.
Welcome couldntbeme. I'm only a few months ahead of your D-day. I wish I had a simple answer for you....but there is none.
Why would you have want to be someone who got passed from man to man? Who had such utter contempt and hatred for herself, that she allowed herself to be treated like that?
I think that the fact that you were NOT prepositioned, is actually a HUGE compliment, WN. They sound like a pretty sick bunch
LH2- I know it sounds ridiculous that I feel this way....it's feeling like everyone else was having their own little party yet I was the one who got shit on & left out. It hurts. I do agree that they could see that my boundaries & morals were in place, hence I was not propositioned.
So sweet of your WH, LH for the gloves & scarf.
Even our MC told us that we were breaking new ground, that she had never dealt with a LTA + serial cheating and seen the marriage survive or even the betrayed WANT to TRY
Could someone remind me why we are all here trying to maintain our M again? It does sound a bit ridiculous to hear our posts & how we're forever changed negatively yet we're still here. For me, it's the belief that WH is a good man.....yet I have 2.5 years worth of evidence to show me otherwise, to show he had no problem dis-respecting me, lying to me, etc. etc.
Those words cut through me like a knife and it was killing me.
I can only imagine how difficult that must have been.
Thank you for your kind words FNF.
We had MC today and I expressed my recent worry surrounding the future. Feeling like there's so much pain to move past- that I must be married to a monster to have done such horrible things to someone he loves, and yet want to continue in the M...The worry that even if WH is Mr. Perfect from here on out that I just can't get past how horrible his A seemed to be- the length of time, the fact that she lived in my home and shared years of memories with our family.....the sex with OW#1 and how she was also around me & everyone else that knew....the level of disrespect, sex in my bed, sex while I was home. I seriously....don't know what I'm doing here. How could I ever forgive that? Even the thought of the sex alone is extremely difficult to deal with, the ILY's for the year while she lived here, lies, betrayal..... Anyways....MC was emotional for both of us & WH feels like there's nothing he can do but to continue to support me because I either can or can't get over the hurt he has caused. I just don't understand how he could go so far, so extreme ie: to have everyone around all the time, move her in, etc.? An A is one thing....but WH just seems to have taken it all so far. The lack of emotional connection, lack of any sort of consideration for me. I feel like I keep going on & on but I'm feeling completely hopeless & beyond devestated right now by what he has done. This is not the man I thought I knew and I'm not sure I want to be married to such a man who can do such things.
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
FNF, I resonate so much with what you write--partly I think cuz our d-days are so close (and 3 years back!!)
Maybe this is another phase of the healing process. It's just that I feel I can never again look at my H and feel the utter satisfaction of knowing that he is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with or that I am the woman he loves above all others.
I too hope this is another phase, cuz I'm right there with you. So sad it makes me--my underlying feeling is still sadness and resignation. And I think the doubt you spoke of will always be there a bit for me too.
I'm even older than you (!), and found out when I was 57, and I also had no desire to throw away so many years, a pretty good marriage til those 5 years, a great family, and a lifestyle I love. Sounds so cold, but with a remorseful H trying, it was the right thing to do.
I also have the feeling that with or without H, my inside bottom line feeling wouldn't be much different--I've said this before, but something shifted and lots was lost--so here I am, living a near-retirement life that isn't what I'd hoped.
On the more positive side, I've come to think of myself first more, to value my strength in living this without disintegrating, and to enjoy the moments I have--with H, with my kids, and with myself and the new life I'm working on carving out here on the West Coast.
Will NEVER find it easy to deal with OW over OC, and will always hate the fact that H loved someone else-you know, gave to someone else what was supposed to be mine exclusively. I envy those whose H's had a non-emotionally involved A--
May 2009 be a better year for us all.
Whatnow, no one can answer for you why they're still trying to save this M. I've often said if I were younger, or financially independent, I wouldn't be here. Things FEEL so fn'g complicated some times. I started out with the conviction that I wouldn't have my children living the life I did when my parents divorced. It's almost eerie that I'm thinking about ending the M just when my D is going to get engaged.... just like my parents.
This is what strikes me so hard. That H watched me go through that hell with my dad and then put me through it with him. Of course MC and IC keep pointing out that he's NOT my dad. No, he should have known better.
Then to hear that he's rewritten our life to be his justification and rationalization. Being asked constantly "what's wrong?" and being told "I'm tired, I'm sore, the client is a bitch" and then he says I never heard him tell me he was unhappy.
Maybe that's why I'm back, the engagement is triggering me. Back to times I can't change, but regret handling the way I did. Even with my father. Even HE put the pressure on me to accept my role in the final break with my mom. I know now it was his choice, but then I thought my "tell me what's going on" was appropriate. He stood there and told me not to push him or I wouldn't like the result. I was still reeling from his leaving when I told my then BF to "piss or get off the pot" about getting married. It had been 5 years and he doesn't believe me, but I think I sensed something was going on with him too, to have given him such an ultimatum, it's not my style ... and it was. And I had the evidence in my hand a few years later and dismissed it because "it happened before we were married." Now it seems so important that at a time when we were supposed to be so deeply in love we wanted to marry that he would do that.
And I still don't get why people think this is all funny. D recommended we watch "Getting Sara Marshall" last night and I know the underlying "theme" is infidelity and trying to get over a broken heart (with extreme humor and nudity), so I said I didn't want to see it. H said he heard it was funny until I said "do you know why they break up in the beginning?" Then he was all "oh, I don't want to watch that" (snarky) like i had ruined something wonderful by saying that. Then he bitched 15 times about how the movie I chose was lame. Yeah, the porn is bad enough, I don't need him ogling 18 year olds for 2 hours and laughing over the antics of some poor BS.
Lord, get me through tomorrow and then his grace period is up. The next argument, the next critism, I call a new MC.
I've tried changing me and he doesn't see it or appreciate it. I've tried stroking his ego, giving him props when things are good, telling people in his presence what a wonderful guy he is and that doesn't work either. I'm still "without".
Read that through again. Is that who YOU want to be...always trying to please him. You know better, my Friend.
As for PreM opinions: My mum thought/thinks the world of H, and how lucky I was/am to have him. His family thought/think I was/am not good enough; and that his life would be ruined by marrying me.
So are you excited about the Feb changes? Do you have to follow a special diet/care programme prior?
I was hoping that somehow I'd just been missing 'it' and you'd have 'it' waiting on a shelf when I showed up at the right time in the right place.
Couldnt, there was talk of some SI LTA'ers putting together a resource book on LTAs, but as you can imagine this is a huge undertaking for anyone.
If you have time, try going through some old LTA threads..there are some nuggets in there.
And oh, and welcome.
Could someone remind me why we are all here trying to maintain our M again?
I dont want my old M. I miss my naivete and this disillusionment wears pretty thin. I want a new M. New rules, new me and new H. We are both working on it in our own way. However, the "it" means different things to both of us. I dont know what his "it" is. I try to focus on me and my path. I want to know that when the time comes, I would be strong enough to walk away if need be, with no regrets. I know I am doing my best. I could have done things differently in the time since dday, and I am trying to learn from my mistakes (even though I sometimes to be repeating them ).
But I also am open to the notion of, if God willing, the time when we BOTH can fully commit to this M(I hesitate to use the word 'recommit' as he didnt the first time around).
Makes sense? (and I dont even have wine in me ).
Weepy, another thought.
I know that part of my healing would be to come to terms with my childhood. I am aware that you too had a pretty stressful one too. Does this come up in IC at all?
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
*****HAPPY NEW YEAR TRIBE!!!******
Heres looking at a year of self love and self respect for all of us in need. May we all be a step (s)closer to finding what we are looking for.
And thank you all for being my sister/mother/friend/motivator/guide/fountain of wisdom this past year.
Here's looking at a year of self love and self respect for all of us in need. May we all be a step(s)closer to finding what we are looking for.
And thank you all for being my sister/mother/friend/motivator/guide/fountain of wisdom this past year.
And thank you all for being my sister/mother/friend/motivator/guide/fountain of wisdom this past year.
LH2 covered my thoughts like we are sharing the same brain (OMG!)
I'm psyching up for tonight. FWH and I met on NY's eve 12/31/69 so this has been a special date for us (me?) until his LTA when he spent NYE with OW & friends/family on 2 occasions... one when he gifted me with air ticket for my sis' 50th bday and another when he guilted me into a fishing trip with the 'guys' -duh! gaslighting to the max!!! and I spent the wkend alone (the one before Dday in '07). We haven't spent the evg/midnight alone since Dday... last year we were out with another couple. Tonight, dinner out with the same couple, who are not aware of his LTA. I want to reclaim 'our evening' yet feel the main effort should be his. I know I've read somewhere on SI: "Expectation is asking for disappointment" or some words to that effect.
Yes, I think Wimsey, Fnf and I are the same person sometimes. Maybe it IS the age bracket.
always trying to please him.
Guess this came out wrong. I'm trying to apply the principles of "respect" so he will show me "love" I guess.
His biggest reason for now showing me love is that he felt I looked at and thought of him always as a POS. Said it showed in the way I'd talk or sneer or blow him off.
Well, I guess I still have the problem of "blowing him off" when he spouts his pontifications. I remember one night recently he said something i knew was TOTALLY conjured in his mind and said "wow, I didn't know that". Nothing further, asked for no "proof". That's what I meant.
This morning, I texted him saying "let me be the first to say to you today "I love you". He texted back that "Frank (his supv) beat you to it." He didn't follow up with an "I love you" so I texted him back "Hope you two will be very happy together, your belongings will be on the back porch." Now THAT got a response. He played it like a joke and so did I, but the call came seconds after receiving the text. Do NOT mess with me when I'm expressing love. DON'T make a joke of it.
Tonight we're going to spend with 2 other couples we've spent New Year's with for years. The kids will be off doing their own thing, out for the night. I plan to watch the food intake, but to get quite tipsy.
Lost Heart 2,
Ditto to lotsu2 you're in my brain: "I want to know that when the time comes, I would be strong enough to walk away if need be, with no regrets. I know I am doing my best. I could have done things differently in the time since dday, and I am trying to learn from my mistakes (even though I sometimes to be repeating them"
Your comment "it is probably because most victims of a LTA D rather than try to R" hit home. I'm trying, but I like you said, even w/ a remorseful H, I'm always battling the doubt, fear, anger and confusion.
Love and hugs to all the Tribe. I love you all so much, you have all held me up when times were tough. Such friends and so much support. Really, I love you all.
***HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!***
I have cooked my first special dinner in two and a half years. ...
It was okay actually, but a BIG deal for me!
WoW! wish FWH and I were on your guest list. I've never made a meal like that. Simple meals I can handle but I can't imagine a menu like that happening in my kitchen and being edible and ready at the same time.
Things aren't looking good here. One couple cancelled this morning. I wanted to go to the mall but waited half an hour in -20C weather for a bus that never came! I came home. Then the other couple just cancelled due to his mom in the hospital taking a bad turn. Then FWH called to let me know he had a flat tire! My stomach is churning.
Hope all is well with the rest of the tribe...
Just wanted to say Happy New Year to all and hope that you and yours find health, peace and happiness in the New Year.
I was able to come back out to chill with WH...but since I've been thinking about the last 2 New Years. The last 2 years we've held poker games here at our home. 2 years ago WH had purchased me an expensive necklace...the "friend" helped pick it out and OW#2 knew about it and was super excited for me after WH gave it to me while on a break during the game....he brought me into our bedroom and gave it to me. I came out and OW#2 was gleaming. WTF.
Last year we had poker and then stayed up late partying/dancing with OW#2 and the other poker crowd. I had only been off maternity leave for a month and wasn't drinking much because I was still breastfeeding. I still haven't grieved my loss of breastmilk after D-day. I was SO SO SO set on breastfeeding DS#2 longer than DS#1 but that all went to hell when I couldn't eat & sleep after D-day.
I knew I wasn't doing well....but tonight killed it. I want to crawl into the tub, into bed, and sleep the next day, week, year away.....