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User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I V
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf, I'm sorry you're hurting.

So, if he chooses not to work on changing the behavior you'll have to make some changes of your own. That doesn't necessarily mean divorce. I think at our age and stage in life it can mean other things, most of which would require a change in your expectations of what your marriage could be.

This speaks to me--my H is doing a lot, trying to be there for our M, but as you know it's complicated by the OC and H's devastation with himself and what this means to his children--both the adult ones and the OC. And I don't see this changing much--he's not interested in continuing his infidelity or emotional entanglements with OW, but I think that complication is here to stay and I have to work with that.

I don't want to disentangle my life from H's either, I still would like to have a close R with him, want to grow old with him. But the parameters have changed for me--not a marriage of two people completely made for each other or satisfied with life totally or contented with the feeling of a solid foundation. But a different M--

Still working on what my M could be--but the expectations have changed and I think that's not a bad thing. I think BT is onto something!


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good conversation tribe.


FNF- I think what you said about our W's being committed to making changes and becoming better people is what limits me as well. I have tried to "fix" it, pretty much made him go to IC but he doesn't find it useful and thinks it might be a waste of money right now. I would like to see him change to a different IC but that would be too much for him to do. Here is where my feelings of: you can fuck off for 2.5 years....you can now work your ass off to fix the problem too. But, I may be asking too much out of him. He just stated the other day that the A stuff is overwhelming to him and he cannot continue to live a life where it's always "consuming" without having a normal everyday life as well. I'm not sure where he's been cause I've still been living....anyways....

So, I'm not sure I want to stay because of the unknowns and the enormousy (sp?) of the changes that need to be made of both of us and in the M. Funny to even say that since 12 months ago I would have rated our marriage pretty good.....now it seems we're all broken to pieces.

I also feel committed to my own vows for better or worse although my feeling is that I give it a try and if it doesn't work than at least I've done my best instead of throwing in the towel instantly. I also feel like I owe it to my boys to try to fix the M.


We had MC & I had IC today. Nothing overly stunning from either. My IC did give me a really horrible analogy for the A though and I told her so. Seems that I challenge everything she says and I'm not sure where that's coming from.

For instance....right at the end of session she mentioned how she believes that if I can come to terms with my contribution to the problems in the M of what lead to the A that I will get to a better place and will be able to move on. I can clearly state some of my contributions although haven't really heard them from WH other than the lack of sex.... I also think I can to some degree see that broken person (at times) in WH to get him to the A, how it started, what was "missing", etc. But, it's all the extras on top- the length of it, double betrayal, lies, etc. etc. that I can't come to terms with....and her belief of just being able to move on also doesn't take into consideration my hurt, pain, lies, and the unknowns of the future. I don't understand how anyone could just say hey, I see how maybe you got to start an A, I see how I messed up, no biggie... so ...lets just happily move on, forget it all, and ride off happily ever after. Am I making any sense? I'm feeling that she doesn't fully understand but maybe I'm understanding it wrong.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
gettingthrutoday
♀ Member
Member # 21365
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope you don't mind if I join in here, but I've been lurking for several days and things are starting to "speak" to me --

WH and I haven't yet started MC -- we're still living 2000 miles apart until I can move to the new place.

Whatnow -- you wrote exactly what I worry about when beginning MC --

right at the end of session she mentioned how she believes that if I can come to terms with my contribution to the problems in the M of what lead to the A that I will get to a better place and will be able to move on.

I don't understand how anyone could just say hey, I see how maybe you got to start an A, I see how I messed up, no biggie... so ...lets just happily move on, forget it all, and ride off happily ever after.

I don't want a MC or IC that tells me that I'm part of the reason for the A. Maybe that's selfish and naive of me, but as someone else here said, (sorry, I forgot who posted it) she was able to move on when she realized that the A was a result of her WH's issues. I'm feeling now that I really need to process the A itself, and I'm not ready to deal with problems in the M before the A.

Don't know if any of you have read After the Affair (my WH printed it out and let me read it) -- the author states that to the BS, the A IS the problem, and for a WS to truly help the BS heal, he needs to forgive everything in the M that he used to justify the A. Makes lots of sense to me, from where I sit.

Have the rest of you had the same experience as Whatnow with MC? Did you feel rushed? Is this making any sense?


Me BS 52
married 30 years
Ddays 10/20/08, 11/23/08, 3/09
Primary Love Language: Honesty
My top 5 needs: love, honesty, faithfulness, mutual respect, communication

Posts: 382 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Southeastern US
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome gettingthrutoday.

I hope others respond regarding their own IC experience.

I know I had my contributions towards problems in the M....although I'm not sure they are any worse than a "typical" young marriage with 2 small children. It doesn't make it any more acceptable but I think it's very normal in our society and still doesn't "justify" having an A. If we wanted to go that route, I could almost say that *I* should have been having an A because *I* wasn't receiving a lot of emotional connection. But no, I honored my commitment and was working with WH to make our relationship better. If we take into consideration WH's "brokenness" to help us move forward....that still doesn't help me deal with what hurt & pain he has caused & the unknowns.


Still though....I had NO NO NO idea that he would ever be having an A, that our M was so problemed....or that WH was so broken.

i'm semi repeating myself but wanted to clarify a little.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
gettingthrutoday
♀ Member
Member # 21365
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whatnow -- I think you're entirely right - both partners are in the same marriage and if one can choose to be faithful, why not the other one?

I think that if I were in your shoes and hearing what your MC was telling you, then I'd be very defensive. I know that everyone says that R can't happen without MC, but I can't say I'm looking forward to it.


Me BS 52
married 30 years
Ddays 10/20/08, 11/23/08, 3/09
Primary Love Language: Honesty
My top 5 needs: love, honesty, faithfulness, mutual respect, communication

Posts: 382 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Southeastern US
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, that's my IC's wording, not our MC.


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
lovegonewrong
♀ Member
Member # 17440
Default  Posted: 10:25 PM, January 6th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF interesting what you say about the dream...

[The interesting thing here is that a gun, according to this book, represents "male sexuality." To have someone using a gun against us indicates that we are in a position of being a victim of someone's sexual aggression. To me, I think this is true for all of us who are victims of LTA's. Our struggle to feel safe and to have the assurance that our H's could never hurt us like this again is a daily struggle that we hope and pray one day will be overcome. What do you think?]

I am exactly in that place now, my FWH is the ONLY man I have been with!! So for me to be betrayed in such a manner and for so long really has it a sore point with me. One in which I truely struggle with. I can't seem to get my head around why I waited to find the man I love so much to share myself with and he has said on many occasions that he wished he had waited to. My response now is 'why the hell would you have waited it obviously doesn't mean anything to you at all!' I do not know how to let go of that anger, the anger that is directed at him for doing such a 'sucky' (cleaned up for this thread) thing to me and not giving a shit about the consequences. Even now I ask him and he swears that something inside him just 'broke'. Yeah right, just broke for 2 years!

I feel myself holding back my love and attention, I don't want him to take advantage of me any more. He did that for to long, way before his A. I am tired of always being on edge, I just want to relax. If only I knew he would stay this way, the way he is now, loving, remorseful, caring and protective. All the good things that we all want from our husbands.

I feel like I'm ungrateful for having someone who is prepared to work his ass off to get through this, he should work it off and then some!!

I still live in the land of comparison though, she looked like me, held the same job as me, had 2 kids of her own (same as me). My god he even said in the beginning what he liked about her was how sweet and innocent she was, again just like me (I was involved in a church group when we first met, he would tell me that all the time). Their 'love' story really played out like my life through the years right down to him asking her to 'marry' him twice!. It just goes around and around that she could be me!!!

How do you move on??

[This message edited by lovegonewrong at 10:28 PM, January 6th (Tuesday)]


Monty Python, "It isn't the despair. I can handle the despair. It's the hope that's killing me."


DDay #1: 04 March 07
DDay #2: 10 May 2007 revealed all (I hope)

profile has all the sordid details...


Posts: 124 | Registered: Dec 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she mentioned how she believes that if I can come to terms with my contribution to the problems in the M of what lead to the A that I will get to a better place and will be able to move on.

WN - this comment makes me so furious. Every M has areas that require work and that require each spouse to examine their own behaviors and decide what changes need to be made in order to improve the M. What I will never agree to is that trouble in the M justifies in even the slightest way the right to indulge oneself by having an A. Add to that that our H's had LTA's, slept with women who we believed to be our friends, in your case had her under your own roof and sneaked off to have sex while you were in your bedroom. These scream major issues that your H alone is responsible for. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR HIS TREATMENT OF YOU AND YOUR M. If she even slightly suggested that, I would recommend you change IC's immediately.
When my H and I were in MC'ing and my H tried to justify his A, our MC never let him get away with that. I would often say to my H both in C'ing and in private, "Nothing I ever did or ever lacked could justify an 8 year LTA with a woman who you encouraged me to accept as a friend. F'ing NOTHING!
If there are problems in the M, the spouse who is so dissatisfied has the responsibility to approach his/her spouse and let them know what they are feeling. If they are even thinking of being with another woman, they have the responsibility to let us know, "I am attracted to someone at the office and I fear I might be heading toward an A. I don't want this to happen to us." But who among us was ever told this???? NOT ME!
How many times did each of us go to our S's and ask what was wrong? What's going on? You seem so unhappy, is there anything you want to talk about? These men were cowards, self-indulgent and totally f'ed up. Don't let anyone tell you that you are at fault for his obscene choices.
Whatever needs to be fixed in your M can only be fixed if both partners are willing to be open and honest with one another. Hiding behind a deceitful persona and lying to a spouse for years is their fault alone. As I have said to my H many times when he tries to defend himself and his LTA, "You are a fucking coward!"


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Nothing I ever did or ever lacked could justify an 8 year LTA with a woman who you encouraged me to accept as a friend. F'ing NOTHING


These men were cowards, self-indulgent and totally f'ed up. Don't let anyone tell you that you are at fault for his obscene choices.

Hiding behind a deceitful persona and lying to a spouse for years is their fault alone. As I have said to my H many times when he tries to defend himself and his LTA, "You are a fucking coward!"

You GOOOOO girllll!!!!

FNF - I think you dropped the F-bomb about 10 times in the vent...oops...mean "post"!!!

I love it when you get angry!

Hey, would you mind looking up something in your dream book? I have been having tons of dreams that all take place in the house I grew up in. The events and characters are both current and historical but the setting is always that house. Think I am trying to "go home" in my subconscious mind?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
fadingmemories
♀ Member
Member # 20531
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If there are problems in the M, the spouse who is so dissatisfied has the responsibility to approach his/her spouse and let them know what they are feeling.

Here! Here!

My FWH spent the first 20 years of our M holding a grudge for something he thought was fact and was UNTRUE! He based all his feelings, decisions and life plans on ficton. He never revisited the situation, never had the guts to bring it up and he was sp bothered by it that he shut himself off to me. he says he lived with a 22 year olds perspective. After the A, which he justified by that perspective, when we truly started to communicate, he finally had the guts to tell me the truth. He thought I had gotten pregnant with our first son on purpose...just to trap him. He lived our whole life with that gut feeling... wanting to be a good father but planning his exit as soon as the kids were grown. He felt he could not achieve his potential while trapped in this marriage and some day would have done "what was right" and be able to move on with his plans. He used to tell the OW he was not running to her but to himself. When we were deciding whether to try to R and he had begun IC he finally was ready to discuss the real "Why". Once he heard what I had to say he realized he had been living in absolute dilusion. I informed him that if he had talked about these feelings at the begining I would have never married him. The fact is we were both stopped in our tracks by this pregnancy. The difference was when we committed to marriage and a life raising a family ( we had two more children ) I meant it and he did it out of fear and a decision to put his life "on hold" until he was done with it. He still chose to deal in his 22 year old mind when presented with the opportunity for this A, His choice,not mine. I was not always happy in my M and had the opportunity to do the same, I chose not to.
We successfully raised three wonderful young adults, I launched a great fullfilling career, he meandered between jobs waiting for the right thing blaming me for his inability to achieve his potential. When he started to question his own abilities he began to question everything else and that is what has brought us to where we are today. I know it was long winded but what I am try to say is that it was ALL him and his perspective that made his choices. I just chose to live with those choices.

Now I am happy to say he has worked incredibly hard to come to where he is now and we are heading into a new comfortable phase of life...... I hope. The true knowledge of a BS


Me BS
Him FWS
Married 25 Years† Together 31
LTA 12 years
DDay 4/11/08
R 2/14/09
"No matter if you think you can or you can't...either way you are right"
Scars do not form on the dying...
only on the survivors.



Posts: 315 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: North East
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((((Fnf)))))))))

I am so so sorry about your sister, and pray that she recovers soon. I cant imagine what it must be like to have a bond like that with someone... I bet its something really rare and special.

****

....right at the end of session she mentioned how she believes that if I can come to terms with my contribution to the problems in the M of what lead to the A that I will get to a better place and will be able to move on.

I would be very wary of any IC/MC who pulls this line on a LTA BS.

I think our Fnf covered the Tribe's response to that quite well.

****

their 'love' story really played out like my life through the years right down to him asking her to 'marry' him twice!. It just goes around and around that she could be me!!!

Oh lovegonewrong.
Big hugs, Sweetie.
She IS not you and never will be. How humilating it must have been for her when she found out that she was just reliving your life, following your footstep. HOw bloody pathetic!

***

Shirley and EO!!!

What an absolutely great start to the new year for you and your family.
I am bursting with glee for you both (if thats possible ).


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heard this song for the first time on Monday. Its JAmes Morrison with Nelly Furtado.

Broken Strings lyrics

Let me hold you
For the last time
It's the last chance to feel again
But you broke me
Now I can't feel anything

When I love you,
It's so untrue
I can't even convince myself
When I'm speaking,
It's the voice of someone else

Oh it tears me up
I try to hold on, but it hurts too much
I try to forgive, but it's not enough to make it all okay

You can't play on broken strings
You can't feel anything that your heart don't want to feel
I can't tell you something that ain't real

Oh the truth hurts
And lies worse
How can I give anymore
When I love you a little less than before

Oh what are we doing
We are turning into dust
Playing house in the ruins of us

Running back through the fire
When there's nothing left to save
It's like chasing the very last train when it's too late

Oh it tears me up
I try to hold on, but it hurts too much
I try to forgive, but it's not enough to make it all okay

You can't play on broken strings
You can't feel anything that your heart don't want to feel
I can't tell something that ain't real

Well the truth hurts,
And lies worse
How can I give anymore
When I love you a little less than before

But we're running through the fire
When there's nothing left to save
It's like chasing the very last train
When we both know it's too late (too late)

You can't play on broken strings
You can't feel anything that your heart don't want to feel
I cant tell you something that ain't real

Well truth hurts,
And lies worse
How can I give anymore
When I love you a little less than before


Let me hold you for the last time
It's the last chance to feel again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aluwpslpygQ

[This message edited by Lost Heart2 at 3:38 PM, January 7th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whatnow,

FNF is right. what your MC said is ignorant, IMO. I think most MCs are ignorant about affairs and about how to help a couple recover from them. And that goes double for a LTA.

Although I loved our MC, she didn't really do a lot to help us work through the affair because she didn't understand it either. SI did that and we did it together and using the tools that we learned in MC.

There is nothing that you did to cause the affair. Not a thing. You are not perfect, I'm sure, but you are not omnipotent either. You don't control your husband or make his decisions for him. He chose to have an affair all by himself. That is why an affair says nothing about a BS, possibly a bit about the marriage and a lot about a WS. Because it is the WS' choice and the BS has absolutely nothing to say about it.

Even thouh I don't believe my MC really understood that, I did know that she could help us overcome communication and other problems in the marriage, many of which were seated in my H and caused by the same issues that led to his affair. So we worked with her in MC on those. But the processing of the affair we did ourselves, and in Ic and on SI, through Retrouvaille and Imago dialogues.

Every once in a while we'll hear on SI of a MC who really gets it. But they are rare, unfortunately. That doesn't mean that yours can't be helpful. Take what you need and leave the rest.

BT

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 8:41 PM, January 7th (Wednesday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
fadingmemories
♀ Member
Member # 20531
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH2 the composer of that song must be one of us


Me BS
Him FWS
Married 25 Years† Together 31
LTA 12 years
DDay 4/11/08
R 2/14/09
"No matter if you think you can or you can't...either way you are right"
Scars do not form on the dying...
only on the survivors.



Posts: 315 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: North East
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This has been some real deep discussion in here. Iíve just had the chance to catch up and want to add before I slink off to bed. I had IC today and I am pretty sure now that I have to be totally independent from him before I can get close again. In the last few months I have realised that I canít move forward because he wants what we had. I get very angry when I see that he is just waiting for things to go back to the cosy way they were before and he will NOT be pro-active in his role in the relationship. He has to recognise that he is using the ďI was in a black placeĒ as an excuse. He was going to have an affair with her and he knew that even before he met her again. So why find pathetic excuses? He says he wants to stay married, but that m is over. He Díd me when he turned away from me and his family and chose to be with her in a full on love affair. He has to recognise my stance on that one. He seems to think I am putting up barriers against him. Iím not, Iím laying down boundaries and conditions. No one has offered the opinion that I contributed to the affair, no one has suggested it was my fault. If they did, Iíd pay my bill and be out of the door never to go back.

I never questioned or examined our relationship before. I didnít need to. I thought I knew what we had. Seems I was misled. He is very unhappy right now and I think itís because he has finally realised the deep, deep damage he has done. Every lie followed by truths served to create another wound until there was a huge gaping hole where my heart had been. He never thought about what damage it could do to our boys, long lasting and far reaching damage, never thought of them looking at him with contempt and refusing to talk to him for years on end. It was his doing, his choices, his decisions, his arrogance, his sense of entitlement, his secret. He put himself first while pretending he always put me first. Nothing can justify what he did and for how long. I do not accept it was a mistake (not five yrs anyhow) and I do not accept responsibility for HIS choice to fuck someone else. If he got bored, (as with that famous rant so well put), maybe itís cos HE was boring.

We all know there is layer upon layer with LTAís, a whole other life running alongside. There was something fundamentally wrong with our WS, not us.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Got it LostH, it's on the new cd.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 7:14 PM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I've heard that song recently. I don't have the radio on much but some of it sounds familiar. Sound card is gone on my PC so I can't hear the Utube link. The words surely seem to come from 'one of us'.

I've been home alone this week which always makes me more introspective. Many of the New Year posts have been like they came from my journal. Trouble is that FWH and I need the dialogue and he won't go there.

So, if he chooses not to work on changing the behavior you'll have to make some changes of your own. That doesn't necessarily mean divorce. I think at our age and stage in life it can mean other things, most of which would require a change in your expectations of what your marriage could be.

This speaks to me too. They don't 'get it' that their A changed/nullified the marriage. As 25wimsey wrote:
I don't want to disentangle my life from H's either, I still would like to have a close R with him, want to grow old with him. But the parameters have changed for me--not a marriage of two people completely made for each other or satisfied with life totally or contented with the feeling of a solid foundation. But a different M--
And this is definitely in the front of my mind as the birth of our 1st grandchild nears. 3 terrific adult children, all married, 2 grandbabies due in 2009... thirty-five plus yrs of marriage, but the last 5 yrs don't make any sense to me. How were we in the same marriage? What do we have now that I've learned of his ability to lead a double life for 3 yrs? and lie to me and compartmentalize it so well... through both traumatic and happy life situations! I don't know that I'm any further ahead in processing the A in my head or heart. I don't recognize myself. "Everything happens for a reason." What on earth is the reason for this deep hole I find myself in?

Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, January 7th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been having tons of dreams that all take place in the house I grew up in. The events and characters are both current and historical but the setting is always that house. Think I am trying to "go home" in my subconscious mind?

HS - I'm going to quote this verbatim from my dream book, it's entitled, An A to Z guide to Dream Symbolism by Pamela Ball. Some people keep a bible on their nightstand, me, I keep this book.
"The human being has certain basic needs such as shelter, warmth and nourishment. The home, and particularly the parental home, can stand for all of these things. To dream of being at home signifies a return to the basic standards we learned as a child ... Sanctuary, that is a place where we can be ourselves without fear of reprisal, is contained in this image."
Yes, HS, I do think you are "trying to go home" because from everything you've told us about your childhood, particulary your Mom, that is where you received the greatest nourishment and security.
BTW, glad you liked my vent - and yes you were right, it was not a post, it was a vent.
LH, I loved that song and I agree with the others that it sounds like one of us could have written the lyrics. PM sent your way.

ETA - I loved that she used the word Sanctuary. I think this is key for all of us.
Sanctuary - a sacred place; a place of refuge. For those of us who grew up in loving environments, homes where we felt safe, secure and loved, the need to find that again is so strong. And for those who may not have had that, I can only imagine that finally finding that place would be a "dream" come true.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 9:55 PM, January 7th (Wednesday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:26 AM, January 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Everything happens for a reason." What on earth is the reason for this deep hole I find myself in?

I donít sign up to that view. But I do think that there are things to be learned from what life throws at you. So much is unfair, so many people who deserve their comeuppance donít seem to get it and so many have one thing after another heaped upon them when they have done nothing to deserve it. My deep hole is as a result of incomprehension. I truly do not understand why, when everything in his life was screaming at him to stop, when he knew what could happen, when he saw how destructive it could be and yet he carried on. Because he was different? That I would never know? He was utterly selfish and, like FNF said, a fucking coward.

I want to stay with him, but I am struggling to find in him someone I can love and respect. He is not the person I fell in love with. That illusion has been completely trashed. He is not even the same person as he appeared to me while he was having his affair. Right now, his confidence seems to be missing, his normal upbeat, happy self is crushed, he is cautious, frustrated and longs to rewind time and undo all he has done. Or at least to have got out a lot sooner, before it was inevitable I would find out. So I would never have known and he would have been grateful for his m, without me knowing why. And life would have resumed.

FNF. Yes, the dream interpretation makes sense. Iíd come to that conclusion myself, but that the luggage was me taking my lifeís possessions with me. I dream a lot about hotels. And college buildings.

edited for - bad grammar!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:45 AM, January 8th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:34 AM, January 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hereís one I heard a couple of months ago, ďthere's a fine, fine lineĒ. Itís from Avenue Q musical and def struck a chord, so much so, I got the music. It could be BS or OP addressing WS. But for me, it says everything about the fantasy that was the affair.

There's a fine, fine line between a lover and a friend;
There's a fine, fine line between reality and pretend;
And you never know 'til you reach the top if it was worth the uphill climb.

There's a fine, fine line between love
And a waste of time.

There's a fine, fine line between a fairy tale and a lie;
And there's a fine, fine line between "You're wonderful" and "Goodbye."
I guess if someone doesn't love you back it isn't such a crime,
But there's a fine, fine line between love
And a waste of your time.

And I don't have the time to waste on you anymore.
I don't think that you even know what you're looking for.
For my own sanity, I've got to close the door
And walk away...
Oh...

There's a fine, fine line between together and not
And there's a fine, fine line between what you wanted and what you got.
You gotta go after the things you want while you're still in your prime...

There's a fine, fine line between love
And a waste of time.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4zltHFDVQX4


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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