In future sessions, when the affair came up she always focused the discussion on my thoughts and my feelings about it. Not his.
That would be totally acceptable to me. But my IC doesn't want me to talk about the A it seems....that's really all I want is someone to hear me out as I process aspects of the A and how they affect me.
WN – could this be the reason why you can’t get out of the affair box? You have lost your sense of identity because the affair has made you doubt everything about you as a person
I think I am willing to work on me....I guess its like this: we all have many roles- my major/front roles are mother, wife, and full time employee, daughter, sister, etc.etc.. This A took away SO SO SO much of what I have spent my life building....
1. I have such a sense of loss regarding memories of the children, my last pregnancy that OW#2 was immensely involved with, the birth, etc. etc. And then...the thought of possibly being a single parent, not as I had planned at all....
2. Wife- Obviously, that role is down the shitter...the whole M is wiped out so that aspect is back to square one...not where I had ever invisioned my life to go and realizing I may not be a wife if I choose to leave the M.
I can admit that I have not given enough to myself....but isn't this time of my life supposed to be creating my life? getting married, having children, working hard to build everything up to what you want????
WH- I read the TMI part about the sex. It set off a small red flag for me. Didn't he "use" OW2 sort of this way. Just grabbed her and had sex.
Um...ya, they had quick basic, to the point, no passion, sex. Very little affection prior, none afterwards unless she bitched about it. You may remember a while back I asked about what everyone thought about kinky sex...and I keep going back to this issue in my head. Maybe not even kinky sex, I don't think that's the right term for what I'm trying to describe. Anyways...after discussion about this issue WH stated he thinks when he's really horny he tends to focus more on himself...that's a first.
I want to shout at him that I have missed out, his secret love life has denied me something I could have had too. Is that so wrong?
UKG- I feel the same at times. I've told him and then he gets crabby and says, so you did/do want to have sex with someone else??? No, it's the feeling of what excitement...even if built on lies..that he received heck, sex with her less than a year ago...and here I am in the same M, same sex, same day to day shit.
I am going today to buy new ear plugs for my ipod.
Yipee for music! I love my ipod.
LH2- No advice but wanted to send some ((HUGS)).
FNF- Glad to hear that your sister is improving and that you've gained some strength.
"I know you don't want to be surprised or caught off guard. So when you get your story straight and want to tell me about the stethoscope, I'll be waiting."
and walk in to the other room. I want to give him a chance to think for a second without me watching the process. That was his excuse for lying before. He was caught off guard and went in to defensive mode.
and walk in to the other room. I want to give him a chance to think for a second without me watching the process. That was his excuse for lying before. He was caught off guard and went in to defensive mode.
I'm a bit worried that this statement ^^ will send him into defensive mode. I would try an "I statement"...I'm feeling anxious because I read an e-mail about.....
I hope it goes well...please update when you can.
Now I know not all of us have been perfect angels during the M...how are you coming to terms with your own (mis)behaviour during the M?
Although I am just a baby here to LTA- I wanted to comment on this because it is something I have been thinking about a lot lately- partly because of my IC, and because of some things that WH has been discussing with his IC....
The relationship I had prior to WH was sexual only- we met up for sex, he was older...there was no intent of a relationship....this relationship in my past often gets brought up on comparison to the A's because there are some similarities. Anyways...WH recently discussed with his IC how he built up this resentment towards me because I had a fairly extensive sexual history when our relatinship started and he had none....and then after our relationship bloomed, I wasn't as interested in sex any longer. I'm not sure exactly what is behind this but it does make me feel horrible to think about some of my behaviors...I knew that he was unhappy about the lack of sex- was frustrated with aspects of the M, was tired of beign unheard...and did nothing. We would talk about it at times, our sexual relationship was up & down but it was still a problem. It is funny to think of the past and I knew WH would be masterbating most mornings and I didn't care...had no interest most of the time.
Anyways...i'm not sure full what barrier was there yet....but it was a huge fault of mine and thinking about it does make me a bit more empathetic to WH.
I was so busy with work and the kids and life and, and, and... you name it!
nothing and I mean nothing that I ever did will compare to the degree of disrespect, lack of love and consideration and downright evil that his LTA demonstrated.
on a side note: Has anyone seen the Sex in the City movie? The A parts sucked- for WH & I but I appreicated the direction it took in that the BS looked at her own behaviors too and moved towards forgiveness.
Sorry so long, it's been a while!
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
WhatNow, your IC works for you. If she isn't willing to do what you need, fire her.
We're almost there...I have been in the middle ground...wanting to hear her out and make sure I'm not just focusing my energy negatively but now we are both realizing that she may not be the right IC for me. I talked to a PhD. that I work with and he recommended I switch- that she seems to be too much in the here & now and isn't looking into my resistance but instead wants to ignore it.
She was going to bring me up in her "supervision" of sorts last Friday and then we're meeting this week to discuss if she is going to refer me out or if she is able to switch gears...I may change IC either way.
OK, quick recap. I am so tired. Didn't sleep most of the night. Mentally tired as well.
He got VERY defensive. I basically said "Listen, we need to talk. I know you've been in contact with her some come let me know when you want to talk." I was calm.
He immediately asked what I meant and I said "You got an email, right?". He says "Yeah, and I deleted it right away and didn't respond."
I walked in to the family room and he came maybe 5 minutes or so later and turned the tv off. Much of what I got was "Yeah, I f-ed up, I'm sorry, i can't change it now." Defensive crap. He was so angry, it was ridiculous.
Says he's on a leash. I told him it sucks for him but he wouldn't be if I didn't keep finding stuff and he's on a leash but I'm in living hell.I was super calm and said very little. It jut blew me away that he was angry, and he was the one who screwed up.
Said he didn't tell me b/c he didn't want to do "this". Talk about it, made to fell bad like he did something wrong b/c she emailed him. Umm, you agreed to tell me everything and you didn't. Just more of the Yeah, I f-ed up, what do you want me to do.
I just don't know what to do now. I do believe his story. She gave him a stethoscope, then his boss gave him a nice one. He ditched hers. The nice one recently froze in the cold and broke. He was talking about it a lot at work and she is still friends with a few people. They must have told her. She was looking for a way to contact him so it was a good excuse. Emailed and called his phone and probably called here as I got a hang up form the hospital and H called to see if anyone had tried to call him and they hadn't. It was at 11:30 pm.
He thinks I should kiss his freakin feet b/c he told me about the restricted call (UKGirl, it means she blocked her number and it comes up as restricted). But you chose not to tell me about the email. At first he acts like it just happened and he had no control, forgot about it or something. Then agreed he made a decision to delete it and not tell me. Says he should have just emailed and told her to F off like he wanted to, if he was going to get in this trouble.
I was so quiet the whole time. I thin I was in shock. I have no idea where to go form here. I've been up most of the night.I think I am going to try to sleep.
Said he didn't tell me b/c he didn't want to do "this". Talk about it, made to feel bad like he did something wrong b/c she emailed him. Umm, you agreed to tell me everything and you didn't. Just more of the Yeah, I f-ed up, what do you want me to do.
I blame them all on the devil (and we know who that is!!!
Fnf, you rock!
nothing that I ever did will compare to the degree of disrespect, lack of love and consideration and downright evil that his LTA demonstrated.
Thats true, and I am not trying to equate them in any way. I am not even doing this for this H. Just for me.
IC asked me to describe myself during the M (predday) and I said "Spineless wimp"..cos thats what I was.
I allowed him to mistreat me over and over again. I allowed that.
I am looking into why i did that and also how did I "get back" at him. I didnt spit in his coffee or argue or give him the finger. I instead worked harder to be a better wife BUT BUT BUT
I did do some real PA stuff, of which I am just beginning to be ashamed of.
When we got into this in EMDR late last year, I actually locked down and couldnt open my eyes. i was paralysed. IC says its because I was not ready to look at that stuff yet.
So i guess I am a little apprehensive on what it is that I did and how (self flaggelator that i am)I am going to cope when i find out.
that sounded so grabled even reading it.
Good for you to sticking to your regime. Even though I have been watching my eating and being more responsible, I managed to gain. humpf!
When he came to bed that night he too said that he didn't sleep well and had missed me!!! We both got some sleep that night, but I also got some lovin
Ahhhhh you guys...
Now that you have a better idea of what you are looking for in an IC, I hope you find the right fit.
Anyways...after discussion about this issue WH stated he thinks when he's really horny he tends to focus more on himself...that's a first.
If ONLY these men would realise that QUALITY of sex would be SO much better for everyone if they just put out first. Sheesh.
I am sorry that didnt go so well. He didnt handle that so nicely at all.
This OW seems like one determined pathetic *****.
I dont remember if you and H had sent her a NC letter, and whether one now, written together, might help any.
Lay low for awhile, SoL. Look after yourself, and I hoping with all my heart, that your H's next move would be the best one for you.
You probably get annoyed with me saying this so often, but I want to say anyway...again.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
Said he didn't tell me b/c he didn't want to do "this".
Do something that takes care of you for a couple of hours in the next day or so. Long aromatherapy bath, go for a mani or get your hair done. Don’t forget to add a Pimms or something relaxing too! Hey, I’ll join you! Anyone else want to come – let’s make it a party!
But for the most part, I think he is disappointed in himself and his accomplishments (or lack thereof) and its proving a bitter pill to swallow.
Moving on to my contribution to the M breakdown an lack of communication, which led to the A. I do not accept any responsibility. I do think I was naive to not see the signs and make the connection between his behaviour and an affair. The good years were a couple while I was still at college and he was my bf. I know now I was very diff to OW. It was a summer romance as far as I was concerned and he prob found that non-commitment and “just for fun and sex” approach refreshing. I was never needy or clingy or jealous. Other good years were the four when DS1,2&3 were born. Then we moved to the place OW spent part of her childhood and where her sibling is buried. I think that’s when the seed of wondering about her, maybe fantasising about a chance meet in the street, began. So in 2001 he saw her name and – pow! – he was gone. Not my fault, absolutely not my fault. He was gonna go anyhow, however good our m was. And, initially, he did tell her we had a good m, but that didn’t stop him, did it? And that is all part of the sadness, all part of the feeling my life with him was a lie and a fake, right up until dday. There were the pathetic lines (note: AFTER he started the affair) about the boys draining me emotionally so that there wasn’t much left for him – but he cringes at that one now. Excuses and justification where there are none. And now OW has left him (has she?), she hangs around haunting me.
you are always welcome to visit my H and I.
FNF – Awwww. Shame you’re not coming over, I was looking forward to that if I was not bandaged from hairline to navel! But I quite understand. And it’ll be nice to have them come over. And at least you can be closer to your sister.
BT - continue to take care of yourself. I hope you are getting waited on.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:30 PM, January 20th (Tuesday)]
she hangs around haunting me.
Only you can exorcise her, you know that right?
What is it about her that is eating you up. UkG?
(Her as a person, not the the A).
She is so sad and miserable. Remember, she wanted to be like you.She wanted what you had.
You know that you are an intelligent, capable, beautiful and compassionate woman. Why is she haunting you? Kick her out!
The thing is, I can see why he is a failure in many respects. He always had himself up on this pedestal, thinking he was oh so clever and smart, really superior than the rest. And now he realising that he is not...that he is just an average Joe. Even his career of which he was such a hotshot at one point in his life, is now really not that remarkable.
You know, when we knew them, OW#1 used to constantly compare her H to him, in front of us, constantly point out her H's failings next to my H's successes. I used to feel so bad for her H and now, I can see how my H must have just lapped that up.
He LOVES attention. He craves PRAISE. This need for external validation is his biggest downfall, IMHO.
To think that when he knew that he was sharing OW#2 with her H and another man, he saw it as such a high that she still wanted him even though she had 2 other men "meeting her needs".
Like I told my IC,whilst i will praise what he does and acknowledge his work, I WILL NOT make a bigger deal of it than it is, nor will I lie to him.
Not that it will make any difference...my opinion of him has never really mattered that much to him.
[This message edited by Lost Heart2 at 1:50 PM, January 20th (Tuesday)]
I don't know what he thinks when I see an off-colour email from OWs sister with OWs email in the 'cc:' which I have told him there should be NC in her case too and I don't comment. He knows I don't feel this is appropriate but won't do anything to stop it. IMO if he deletes without reading, doesn't let her know that her contact is inappropriate, he is condoning it. Seeing OWs name in the cc: is a nasty reminder. He does not get it!
I told him it sucks for him but he wouldn't be if I didn't keep finding stuff and he's on a leash but I'm in living hell.
I've pretty much made the same statement. Also that I don't want to be his 'mother' or 'parole officer' but to me, his boundaries are still questionable.
Right now I just don't want the stress of 'doing this'. FWH is having surgery tomorrow... there was some discussion about his pre-op EKG... worried us both. Dr. rechecked yesterday. Day surgery is a go. Hope you will keep us in your thoughts tomorrow.
Mid afternoon... 2p... here. I've done nothing constructive today. Lethargic despite our weather warming up a bit.
What’s haunting me? Everything about her, I guess. And first love returned and all that. And he did love her. And I think it was all just too much to be sustainable, esp with keeping it as an affair. Yesterday, he said to me as he was going out “You know, I’m nothing like (UKg2’s STBXH)” and I just pulled back and stared at him. Oh, so you’re not a lying, cheating, adulterous, manipulative bastard then? He told me to say what I was thinking and I just shook my head in sheer disbelief. I think he meant about UKg2’s H being disconnected from the hurt and grief he is dishing out, but that still leaves me astonished. HE couldn’t have given a flying fuck for years – and certainly not until it was all getting too much. What a fuckwit. I wonder how long it will be before he can’t resist finding out how she is doing. That’s one reason I cannot get “back on board” and to where we used to be. Don’t trust him. And that’s not good, is it?
A few more shirts and that’s me done.
Did you lot over the pond get a holiday today? Looks like the whole population was out on the streets!
Lostsoul - the UK is 6hrs ahead of you.
I cannot imagine how this will ever resolve. I hate him right now.
Oh, we did say one word. Of course the counselor calls back today to give us a meeting date, so he told me that. Feb 12th. We may be headed to divorce by then.
He changed his email password
I am so sorry. Even if this is conflict avoidance, it is unacceptable. I can't spend much time here tonight as all three kids need to get into bed early but I wanted you to know that we are here for you no matter what.
His not wanting to deal with "this" is caused by his doing "that". *HE* needs to make that connection and, if he is not willing, there is nothing you can do.
You need to take care of yourself. Soup, saltines, gingerale....hell, start the B.R.A.T diet if you need to. But you need to give yourself fuel to deal with this. Try to eat something then watch "Idol" to take your mind away?
Changed his password? What's up with that? That's not conflict avoidance... That sounds more like WH fog. I'm sorry that he's making bad choices after OWs email. Take care of yourself.
I would say this is the time to put 100 percent into taking care of you. For the long term certainly, but particularly in the short term. Go make yourself some toast and choke that down. Then I would have a glass of wine and go to bed. In the a.m. make an IC apt and go vent IRL.
I lived a long time with a husband who was a secret-keeper and a conflict avoider. I put up with it until I learned of his affair and then I could no longer accept it. He had to change or the marriage was going to end. But he didn't change until it got to that point.
I don't know what your husband's point is, or whether he has one. Or whether you do. But I know the first step is for you to delve into yourself to figure out what you can and are willing to live with. And most importantly, what you are not.
That is something to start on tomorrow. Tonight, try to eat a little and get some sleep. Sending you all the good thoughts and strength I can muster.
It's amazing to me that so many of our WH's have similar behaviors. My WH would have given almost the same exact reaction to the situation and then I'm always stuck wondering if I have done wrong. Sending you strength...hope you can get some rest & something to eat.
I think he meant about UKg2’s H being disconnected from the hurt and grief he is dishing out, but that still leaves me astonished. HE couldn’t have given a flying fuck for years – and certainly not until it was all getting too much
They really do have a sense of being different than other cheaters don't they? They just can't classify themselves that way...see themselves the same way because they're "different" and better somehow. Am I understanding this right? Maybe in their heads they have to be "better" somehow....ie: I could hear my WH say..."at least I didn't do X like Mr. Smith did to his wife". Of course, my WH realizes that our situation is far far worse than many others and I do think this bothers him....but I still think he's a ways away from fulling "getting it". And, he didn't give a flying fuck either (love the term btw...it's a classic here) ...if he had a care in the world maybe he would have made a decision to make the situation better...instead he just kept getting deeper & deeper with no connection to reality.
Okay...I'm starting to sink into a rant myself...
Oh, so you’re not a lying, cheating, adulterous, manipulative bastard then? He told me to say what I was thinking and I just shook my head in sheer disbelief
I wonder his reaction would have been if you had said it out aloud...
My H also sees himself as a different category from the regular cheaters. I wont forget one time, he even said to me, "I am not a bad person just because I cheated on you.", the you being in a very dismissive manner.
Ukg, Do you think your H knows all these things that trigger you? Wondering whether he acts out of habit or ignorance or both.
I am so so sorry that your H is being such an asshat.
I can only imagine your anger, pain and confusion.
Sweetie, please please look after yourself. I know you want to curl up in a tight ball and just leave all this behind...but trust me, Sweetie, it WILL get better.
Just focus on you. Treat yourself the best you can. Force yourself to bring out your inner diva/princess.
Do you not have a keylogger on?
All the best for your H today.
My jaw dropped when I read that he gets mails from her sister and she is cc'd. How cruel.
Why are they still in your lives?
Big hugs to you (((((WN))))))
Hope everyone has a better day today.
At first he acts like it just happened and he had no control, forgot about it or something. Then agreed he made a decision to delete it and not tell me. Says he should have just emailed and told her to F off like he wanted to, if he was going to get in this trouble.
He had to change or the marriage was going to end. But he didn't change until it got to that point.
I hope you are a little better this morning and that he manages to apologise. (((((SoL)))))
They just can't classify themselves that way...see themselves the same way because they're "different" and better somehow. Am I understanding this right?
My H also sees himself as a different category from the regular cheaters.
It’s just beyond my understanding. They continue to live in little boxes in their heads. Withdrawing and compartmentalising and telling themselves it isn’t the same and, yes, digging themselves “deeper with no connection to reality”. Selfish fucked up thinking. I just do not get it.