Why are you checking into a hotel? Alone or with H? Do you think being near THAT hotel might be a bit tough on you, esp since you are feeling vulnerable?
I was thinking about your surgery and the catch 22 sitch your H might find himself in:
If he likes the changes, it would confirm what you feel already about how you looked before. If he prefers the "old" you, then that might make you feel more sad.
How would you prefer him to respond to you? Tricky...
Each dday for me was the revelation of a OW, hence 2 ddays for me.I could never list every encounter.
Please take extra extra care of yourself for the next few days. Sending you big hugs.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
H has decided to quit IC.He has his last session this week. He told me last night that he is so unhappy with his life and doesnt know how to improve it, IF he wants to improve it.
I cant help him. I have been listening to him say this for all of our M, and would try to make it better for him, whilst he went out and "medicated" himself.
At the end of each phase, he would be feeling better and lifted, whilst I would end up in the dumps, having depleted my already thin resources.
He has to WANT to help himself. He has to WANT to be happy but also to DO something about it. I listened to him, offered some general advice like reading up on male depression or finding a new IC or going onto antideps; I advised him that buying an expensive cellphone or some other gadget WILL not make him better. That is all I am prepared to do. That is ALL I can do at this time.
His apathy INFURIATES me. But I need to let that go, and focus on me.
I read a news article (a little dated!) about this little girl who died after her buggy was flown into the sea. Her dad who was watching her and her baby brother, had been meeting his AP and had let go of the buggy to cuddle with OW. A gust of wind blew the children into the sea. Little girl died and baby brother survived. Poor BS. In one day, she loses her DD and finds out that H was having a LTA with co-worker.
How do these people live with themselves??
call me crazy, but why check into a hotel if u don't want to....just pass....there isn't any need to tell your parents.......just pretend that u did for them and do what feels right to YOU....you deserve it.......
as far as your surgery goes...whats done is done, now heal thyself and enjoy the new you.....
we change whats done......if only we could......
Whatnow -- have been thinking about you and hoping that these tough days are going OK for you
H has decided to quit IC.He has his last session this week. He told me last night that he is so unhappy with his life and doesnt know how to improve it,
Fading -- did you decide on a course of action re: your BIL?
Miracle -- hang in there -- sounds like you're doing everything you can right now.
I'm going through the motions here in our new city, living again with WH. Rental house? check. Job? interviews scheduled. Shopping/restaurants located? check.
Not feeling much of anything, tho. I'll post more later when I know what to post
The place is not far from “that” place where H worked and MOW was brought up as a child, where her father worked at the same business and where her sibling is buried that H didn’t tell me about. H and MOW stayed in umpteen diff hotels. The one we’ll drive past both ways is just one. And a crummy one, slightly seedy, suitable for an adulterous couple. One route back home would also be past the posh Barcelo that used to be a Paramount where they spent MOW’s birthday. And past some of their other favourite meeting/shagging places.
I just hate hotels, yk? They are a way of life for him, but for me they just represent his lying and the time he spent with her, and her acting like she was his wife. I fucking hate feeling that I am seeing and feeling everything through MOW’s eyes all the time. I hate knowing how she loved pretending that she was his wife while I was at home seeing to this family and his everyday needs never dreaming he was phoning me while she was getting ready for dinner, after their little love-in. I had to consciously squash it all down the weekend before my surgery when he took me off to a spa hotel. I managed to keep my mouth shut about the A, but she was still there in my head.
He is being very diplomatic about the surgery. He kept telling me he loved me as I was, that I didn’t need the surgery, that he was disappointed I didn’t tell or invite him to the first consultation, that he didn’t care about the money, that it was going to be great, that he didn’t care about my unwashed, smelly hair, that he wanted to put on my scar and bruising creams and that I was going to look so good in a few months time. He is doing his KISA act right now and b/c I’m emotionally empty, I’m just letting him.
LostH, you are right. You can’t help him. Well, you can but only if he wants you to. If he is on the way down, you cannot and must not let him drag you down there too. Buying gadgets is a temporary “fix” that he can lose himself in for a little while. But escaping from what is going on in his head is not going to help in the long term. He has to view this apathy as a reason to search for what he does want in his life. I can understand it, but only he can take those steps forward. You have done brilliantly in the last year or so and I wonder if he is looking at you getting on with your life while he continues to feel unsatisfied and a failure. He has to do the work on himself just as you have done.
gettingthru, glad you got you priorities right – get the computer set up first! It must have been very hard for you being separated from your H after all you were going through. I don’t think I would have dealt with it at all well. FWH took a month off to be with me when I had my hysterical “WTF are you doing still texting MOW” outburst. If he hadn’t, he might well have been out of the door. I couldn’t understand how he could carry on more or less as normal while I was falling apart. Ah well, a compartmentalisation expert, I guess. Keep us updated on how you are doing and whether or not you and H are going to MC/IC or managing to work things out on your own.
(((((WN28))))). Hang on in there sweetie.
LH2: Loved the Warrier Woman Poem. FWH said it sounded like me. I'm with SoL - skip out on the MIL visit. We have similar IL issues, so I understand. You're right about your H's situation. You just need to focus on you. He's responsible for his own healing.
Miracle: Our own dignity is about all we have left isn't it? It's a powerful thing though! "They were not intimate..."?? When my FWH told me that their PA was oral only I think he thought that would be easier for me (WTF?). Told him I always thought oral sex was more intimate than intercourse. Guess people have different definitions of intimacy. I applaud you for handling the situation with the OW H so well. We have not informed OW H. Multiple d-days/new info...I haven't made note of the dates of each new revelation.Most of the information came out in the first couple of days, although after he told me that they were "just friends" most of their 22+ years, then later told me that they started kissing on the mouth in the 8th year...well that was a new tidbit to absorb. I asked him to reconstruct their relationship in writing for me and he's doing it in episodes. He's covered 8 of the 22 years. I'm sure there will be more revelations in the remaining 14 years. Can't wait!
FM: I also think that your H might be in the best position to get through to your BIL, only if he is comfortable doing so.
WN28: "...So much has yet to change." It will all be for the better!
Shirley: Lots of snow! Where are you? Our temp here in Nebraska today is in the 70s (very unusual), but FWH and I are traveling to Maine to visit our first grandchild this weekend and I hear we're heading into the dead of winter! Sorry about your "shitty" day. They just keep comin' don't they? Hugs to you!
gtt: Hope you settle in and find things to enjoy together about your new city!
UKg: You are amazing! I agree with you about the sex vs. intimacy issue. I think we may never have sex that is emotionally gratifying again, but we remain very intimate and that is so much more important right now. I too opened an "escape fund" immediately. Like you, I probably didn't need to because I handle all the finances (he doesn't have a clue!). I think that needs to change at some point, don't you? Hope you can get past the triggers and enjoy the hotel stay JUST FOR YOU. I loved your comment about considering the OW "erased" from his life. Also your comment about closure: trunk...overboard...YES!
That brings me to my latest update. After the tc last week, MOW emailed H. He deleted the email and told me about it (said he was going through the big D and he didn't mean Dallas or Divorce - he means Delete (He does have an unusual sense of humor!). She emailed him again and he replied simply that she should remove him from her address list because he was deceased (his humorous response to her tc comment that we are dead to her now). She responded that he has a cold heart as a result of making decisions with his head instead of his heart. I so wanted to email her back that he made decisions with his head (the wrong one) for 22+ years and is now making decisions with his heart, but I didn't. Anyway, he finally admitted that she is not going to just let this go, so we're going to change email addresses, phone numbers, etc. He also finally admitted that she is unbalanced and, if backed into a corner, might be capable of not so pleasant things. He says he has considered talking to her H, but I really don't think he'll go there. I'll keep you all posted.
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R
What’s happened? “How can you let me watch you sleep, then break my dreams the way you do?” comes to mind. I know the resentment you feel. FWH actually wrote “There is a beautiful futility in looking at you / And I won’t take away your every glance,/ And I won’t chastise nor berate you / For falling into the same honey-sweet trap.”
Actually, I’m going to have to look at this a little deeper. I have just seen that it says the doc was created on 8th October 1999. Two years before he joined FriendsRU and found her. Oh fuck. I feel sick.
And this one, Septembe 1999: “You were grateful for the fullness of my kiss / But shocked by the emptiness in my eyes; / Words flowed easily from our mouths / But only to keep our true feelings at bay.” Fuckityfuck.
FWH is next to me. I’ll have to look at it all later. Shit and fuck. Is this still MOW? Or someone else? FUCK. I think I'm going to be sick.
Do you want to talk about it? Is it something specific or the general WTFs?
Its easier to manage all the changes when you go on auto mode. Sometimes grieving or being upset is a luxury we just cant do, cos we have to "just get on" with stuff.
Anyway, it sounds like you are doing a good job settling down. I dont for a second think its easy, so bravo!
NC = NC.
I would suggest to your H that he is not to respond to her ever. Dont engage. It opens up a channel that you want shut and walled forevger, KWIM?
It will be brave of him to speak to the OWH. My H spoke to OWH#2 (his BF/mentor) and I know its one of the hardest things he has ever done. it was also the right thing to do.
Whats going on?
I wonder if he is looking at you getting on with your life while he continues to feel unsatisfied and a failure.
My IC suggested the same.
Of course he's at the age (41)where men usually take stock of their lives. I can only imagine his checklist:
His own self? fail
If only he could see what he HAS achieved.
I have just seen that it says the doc was created on 8th October 1999. Two years before he joined FriendsRU and found her. Oh fuck. I feel sick.
UKG! Do you mean he wrote that 2 years BEFORE he "found" MOW? How do you know...by the date on the doc in Word? Can you ask him?
Thanks for asking LH - just that I am literally surrounded by triggers. H and his hos had sex all over the place around where we live. Every time I go to the mall, I drive by some of the places. Today, I drove to a tennis match and drove by some of the places. For someone who thought he was keeping his two lives separate, he did an amazing job of have sex about every fucking mile in a 20 mile radius around where we live.
So I guess it is just the usual triggers and feeling down. Also, a few posts in general sort of got me going. The complete selfishness of their acts. How they just threw us aside, destroyed our trust, love, dreams, everything for their selfish needs.
Blah, fucking, blay. Fuckity- fuck.
Oh geez, Kalamity. March is mid-winter in Maine!!!!! They just received 3-4 feet of snow in the last few weeks. Unless you are going to the coast where it will be cold as hell but not as much snow. Maine has three seasons: Fall, Winter and Mud!!!
Someone asked where we ski. Mostly in NH but we don't have a place. We just rent so we try to go to lots of different places. When we went a few weeks ago, we went to Bretton Woods and they had 2 Feet of snow while we were there! Wooohoooo.....
UKG, come back and let us know what is going on....
UKG! Do you mean he wrote that 2 years BEFORE he "found" MOW?
He has written four poems that I found very early on. He had even told me in his “love letter” in 2001 that I could read them. WTF was going on? I didn’t look at the dates he had “created” them. These poems were copied from a floppy disc of his, so it shows when they were created (19fucking99) amendments and all the rest. Did I see that before? I can’t have, can i? So, now I see that these four (out of 11 on the disc) were written in 1999, two years before he said the affair started. Is this another affair, one before MOW? When I first read and “interpreted” two of them, he wrote lines next to my comments about how angst ridden he was, sometimes it was her, sometimes it was me, the guilt he felt and how he was already trying to get out of the situation he had created. But I thought this was 2001!!! Not 1999. These four were written while he was being unfaithful. Living in a fucking fantasy star crossed lovers but doing the right fucking thing land.
Oh fuck. Was there someone else or did he just successfully minimise this one big affair to “only” five years?
What should I do? Fuck. I fucking hate him. I hate this and I hate what he had done to me. If I wasn’t full of wine, I’d get in my car and fuck off. I HATE HIM.
I'm so tired. I need a bath. My face hurts and so does my back from this stupid compression bra.
This could be nothing, but I doubt it.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 3:48 PM, March 4th (Wednesday)]
I don't want to get you going but I don't like the look of this AT ALL!! If they were created in 1999 but he submitted them as part of the "affair material" then either:
1) the affair was going on longer than he has admitted to
2) there was another.
I know you have said several times that things just didn't seem to add up, your gut was bothering you, maybe there was another, etc, etc. You *need* to get to the bottom of this as it is not going to go away. It is going to bug the shit out of you.
These fucktards drive me crazy! Do they think we are so fucking dumb that we won't eventually notice something like that? Are they lying to themselved to such a degree that they are buying the crap they are telling us?
IDK - would he take a lie detector test?
Hon, take a hot bath. I will join you with a glass of wine and know that we are all here for you.
Hope tomorrow is a better day for both of you
HS it's going to be in the 40's this weekend in Maine!
Truth's post in G got me thinking as well. She articulated so well what has been pingponging in my head for awhile now.
Unfort I am not ready to deal with that now. How would we anyway?
Sometimes I think R'ing from all this is just too much to ask of anyone.
I am reading a book now and a para described how I see myself so well- about not knowing whether I am a shell or if there is anything solid behind the facade.
What did H say? If you havent already, ask him when you have all all your wits about you. And if you dont think you are emotionally ready for this, I dont see the harm in waiting another week.
Take care my friends.
I haven't posted in here before, but LH2 and yourself do and I like to be looking out for you both when I log on. You have both been a source of comfort and inspiration for me in the past.
OK - to the business in hand.
I sense your desperation, really I do. What you thought was the truth, might not be. So my advice would be to ask him the question calmly (if you can) and when he answers you, don't just listen to the words, but watch how his body is, watch how he reacts. That may tell you more.
Before you ask him, think about the various responses he could give you and try to think about what you will say and do in return. Be controlled and calm. Don't do anything rash at this time.
Give yourself time to digest the information and also to do your research to try to substantiate his response.
Think about what he tells you, think about how you perceive/interpret it, then think about how it makes you feel. Listen to your feelings.
Finally, breathe. And listen to each breath as you feel it enter and exit your body. Repeat a few times.
Back at Christmas 2006, FWH gave me all his “poetry”. I was supposed to have binned the whole folder, but for some reason, I’ve kept it in my laptop bag, together with a sheet of typed paper with the basic info about the documents. (Thank God!)
There were 10 individual poems and the “work in progress” Dreaming Visions. So, 11 docs altogether. As you know, a lot was written about MOW. In Jan/Feb 2007, I’m pretty sure I took all the information I gleaned about dates from the properties info that was on the floppy disc, I copied them down, worked out and colour coded (boy, am I organised when I want to be) if they were written before, during or after the affair. From the dates, there were two that were clearly written during and about the affair. They are dated 8th Nov 2001. His affair began with the email on 11 Sept 2001.
I have just been through the properties of every poem document I have on my laptop and nearly all the dates are different. I must have copied them from a different floppy disc (he had several, always forgetting which was the latest version). I have columned them side by side for easier comparison. The dates shown for the two poems in question for created are 2 Oct 1999 and 19 Sept 1999. Because I had written comments, the modifications shown are Jan 2007, although the revision numbers and editing times are still there.
I’m trying to wear my logical hat here and say that there must be some other explanation. But he has written against the comments I made. So, there is the poem, my comments and interpretation (talking about MOW and me) and his replies (again with references to MOW and me).
MOW’s first text to me was to say something like “UKg, you don’t know about the last five years and it’s better that you don’t”. She has never contradicted the length of the affair other than to say it was five years rather than four and a half.
I don’t know what to do. How do I challenge him about this now? The floppys have been destroyed. We do have loads of them about the study and I’ve been saying for the last couple of months that I should set up the crashed pc one more time to use the disc drive to transfer all information so that the discs can be thrown. It is possible there are a couple with poems on still hanging around. But there must be between 50 and 100 discs to go through. If, of course, the pc is able to read and transfer the information to memory sticks.
My guts have been telling me there was more. The trouble is he is soooo convincing. He is utterly believable. And it makes it very difficult when I have nothing else to go on. He certainly won’t have told MOW about any previous A’s. I wonder if there was another ex-gf, one from the reunion crowd who he linked up with in ….. 1999. MOW was never part of that group.
This is not good, is it?
[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:05 AM, March 5th (Thursday)]
((((UkGirl)))) Oh my! It does seem bad. But here's the thing. It is much the reason why we need to know the truth.../c our imagination can b much worse than the truth. Talk t him. Be calm and prepared and talk t him. Ask him about it all. You will never completely trust the answer, but maybe it will give you some peace, some thing to think about. You can always mull over what he says and go back adn talk about it again. I am so sorry this is happening. Take care of yourself though...you just had surgery!
The thing I have always thought about is the 'i love you'. Did he say it? He says no. Says she said it every time but he never did. always just said he can't say that. I just don't believe him it would have been so easy to just say it. Even if he didn't mean it. He says that was his line in the sand. It doesn't sit right with me though. But what good what it do even if he did tell me now. I would just call him a liar and be hurt that he aid it. So I haven't pushed it much after those first couple months.
Listen to Captiva, she has some great advice. It doesn't look good though. If he had not made notations on those poems and had said those were just musings, etc, I would feel better. But, the fact that you have the date of creation as well as the date of his notations...well....shit.
I agree with Captiva that you should very calmly ask you to explain something you stumbled on. Watch how he reacts, not what he says.
Thinking of you ((((UKG))))
I take back what I said about waiting a week, because I think you will think your self into a hole by then.
Ask him soon for your sanity..in person.
Whether he said ILY or not...really in the scheme of things, does it matter? Like you said, you wouldnt believe him either way.
Rather focus your thoughts on the bigger issues at hand, IMHO.
How was IC/MC this week?
And if you are crazy/bipolar/whatever, then I am too!
You have been in my thoughts.