I don’t see how the property details can be anything other than as it was. I would have rectified any computer reset to factory and any work done on his work computer would have picked up if the date was wrong. This whole thing stinks. It’ll be interesting to hear what he has to say.
SoL - I wouldn’t worry about the ILY bit. If he didn’t utter the words because it was a step too far (but shagging her wasn’t?), then he has odd standards of behaviour. If he did say it, (as my FWH did and too fucking often) then it’s likely it didn’t mean anything anyways. And it’s okay to call him a liar: he can hardly deny it.
Shirley, I will be watching his body language like a fucking hawk, and his eyes and listening to his lying tongue. I will not be telling him this roundabout way that my suspicions have been alerted. I’m starting to get really fucked off about it all. Him and his fucking lying ways.
LostH, it won’t be my sanity I’m in danger of losing, it will be my temper.
BBL. Gotta get the dinner. Somehow life goes on as normal.
ETA: And I think I will wear nice underwear and some fuck you shoes - instead of this compression bra that goes from my neck to my diaphram and flat brogues.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:01 PM, March 5th (Thursday)]
LOL LH2! Well, we may both be crazy, but that's okay!
Such triggers lately. I just think about 'her' adn 'it' a lot. Her seeming to stalk him doesn't help matters. No IC/MC this week, but lots of it next week. We'll see how it goes. I feel pretty stuck in that department. Not sure where to go next. I am going to tell them that. I really want to do Retrouville, but H has said no twice. I may bring it up again and get him to do it simply for me. I don't know if he will, but I think it would be a great jump start.
why don't these men GET it...trickle truth KILLS....
i believe i have proof that my wh ow#3 was not a ons......
i don't know how to deal with it now after 11 weeks, how the rest of u do it is beyond me...........
i am at such a loss.....if they would just come clean, then u could move on...i feel stuck.......
it won’t be my sanity I’m in danger of losing, it will be my temper
About bloody fucking time too!!!
Errr...what exactly are "fuckyou" shoes?
I am kinda picturing these tough Dr Martins with loads of spikes and stuff on it...you know for when you put the FY in action.
Do you think making a PA H go to Retrov will be a good idea?
When you are stuck, focus on you. Whats going on in your head? Us loonies usually have ALOT going on!
We go back to EMDR next session in IC. We did the last one in Dec and some issues came out unbidden. We think I am strong enough now to go back there...
Whew. This is hard work, hey?
Can I ask what you found out?
Have you given your H the deadline about coming clean with the major stuff? What was his response?
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
I am sorry you are hurting, my dear friend.
We know who they are. We know what they are capable of. So which is worse...when he shows old behaviour after all this time; or me STILL being surprised/hurt?
It seems like quite of the Tribe are going through a tough ride. I dont know how to post pics, so send this instead:
With loads and loads of healing light.
It is the “this is the only lie” (??!!), “this was the only mistake” (??!!), “there has never been another OW”, “I am not a serial adulterer” bit. The prostrate on the floor “I have only had one affair and there is nothing more for you to know” crap. I have never really believed him on that one. Except that I thought his other “indiscretion” was about 1992/93. So maybe I can add 1999/2001 to that too. And I rather think it may be another ex-gf hidden within the reunion “dinner” where it kicked off. A certain ex-gf who later married some nice guy. H even got invited to the wedding. And several parties. But that was when he was with MOW, so ……
Ah, WTF. Logging off now. Let’s see what tomorrow brings.
ETA: I don't know what I'd do without you. Love my tribe.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 3:36 PM, March 5th (Thursday)]
LH2 - thanks for the welcome......just bobbing in for support purposes. Hope you are ok too? Read your post anout your H - he is in a BAD place right now......sending hugs to you too
But how will I ever know he is a changed man if every time he tries to convince me I question his ability to ever be truthful when I know how capable he was of lying so completely during those years?
This really is the crux of the matter for all of us. How DO you ever believe him again. Thank you for believing my H really is one of the ones who has told it all but....do we really know that? Maybe there is an OC I don't know about. Maybe he is fucking his latest corporate bimboho as we speak. I will never know. He *seems* remorseful. I have never seen him act the way he is now but is it still just an act? I will never know. I told him last night that the trust that I had before will never return.
I agree with your point. I think I may have posted something in general a while ago going down the same track but just a little differently. I kinda said what difference if it was two LTAs or 15 women or both. He was deceiving me from the get go. He was never committed and he was lying and cheating to do what he wanted. Does it matter who, what, how many?
I think your point about UKG needing to heal is a good one. However, she has been having gut feeling about another OW before for a while. I think she needs to know if her gut was right. Sometimes I think the gaslighting and deception are worse than the actual cheating. It makes us doubt ourselved when ourselves are right, KWIM?
I have been MIA from this board for a long time. Even though I've posted in General and Recon, gosh even F&G, I didn't come here.
Why? When the most wonderful people are here struggling? Because I identified with all of you soooo closely, your pain was my pain. Your struggles, my struggles. Your fears, my fears. All compounded 10x.
Every time someone here wondered "hmm, was that all there was?" I wondered "hmm was that all there was?" UKG's struggles with surgery (UKG).... we all said you didn't need it, your H said you didn't need it. You WANTED it so we supported you and so is your H. Whichever way his opinion falls, it has nothing to do with you. You're fabulous.. and now you're fabulous with perky breasts. Enjoy, love yourself in your own skin, whatever it happens to look like.
shirley, EO has been an SI WS. He sought help, he did what you asked. Stand back a little and watch. Don't be so involved in his "recovery", it's HIS. You take care of you.
FNF, you have been an amazing friend. Your power and strength are inspirational. And yet, there's still this little girl inside wondering why. What was so awful about you that he did this for so long, with her of all people. Wondering still how you could have been so blind. Please, please stop beating yourself up. I know you put up a good front. His affairs say NOTHING about you. Opt out of being responsible. I could finally bring myself to say that and MEAN it only this week. My tapping exercise was "My H had an affair, but it was not my fault." As I was saying it... I realized it was the wrong mantra. I didn't feel responsible in any way. Nothing I did or didn't do could have changed our past. He wanted to then, he doesn't now. Will that change again? If it does, I won't miss it again. I asked him just Saturday if he was interested in anyone else, if there was something going on because he had lapsed into the "nothing you do is right" mode and I was starting to believe it again. Old weepy would have just tried harder , would never have asked, would never have outlined the reason for asking and would have accepted his angry "no, I would never do that" without then following up with "why?"
LH, you do need to look after yourself. Stop reading about how to "fix" this.
I think the bottom line here is that they crossed a line that is unforgiveable to us and we just don't know (still) whether we want to be with someone like that. And we all have to examine that. Some of us feel we CAN'T leave or worry about how our children will fare or even what will happen to the WS if we do leave. Saw a program the other day where someone (not a therapist) was advising a woman with low income to leave her H. That a divorce would be less costly to her in the long run. How could she put a price on what damage was being done to HER by staying in the marriage. Turns out she was hoping HE would do more to make her change her mind. Absolute torture. In the end she agreed to leave, but her parting words were "maybe just for a while to see how we do without each other." I could see in her face the hope that he would miss her terribly and ask her to come back. The resoluteness in his eyes told me different. She was still clinging to a dream.
My IC "fired" me last night. Told me I was one smart cookie. That I didn't need to self-improve, that I would be fine, better if I got out of this M which is eating away at me. She told me not to call her again until I'd had gone back to MC with H. When I told her he said he'd go "if he had to" and that was a set up for a waste of time, she said "tell him, yes, he has to and go." I think she's right and as hard as it will be to do it, I'm going to make the appointment and tell him to meet me there. That way, I won't be dragging him there, he'll be going under his own power and if he doesn't show, I can go home and pack. I'll get along some how.
I'm still out of work, can't find anyone who wants to hire a 55 year old "jack of all trades." There's just no work out there. Oh, I could go warm up lunches for the babies at DD's school, but that's not going to pay the bills.
Anyway, I just wanted you guys to know that I do think about you often, but I can't come here every day. It does stop forward progress. Keeps me stuck in the "why". I'm learning to do what I want, the way I want and if he doesn't like it, fine. He can protest/opine/pontificate all he likes, but it won't change a thing. I could never win that war anyway. If I did something he didn't like, I'd hear about it. If I DID something he liked, I'd hear about how I didn't do it RIGHT. Well, no more. He can't abuse me if I don't LET him. I can't count the number of times I've said "F you, if you don't like what/how I'm doing, then do it yourself." That is usually met with a sheepish "nevermind". Because he KNOWS he won't/can't do it as well or as timely as me. He lodges his little "protests" when I've done something to displease him. Screw him.
Marriage on "his" terms doesn't work for me any more. He plays the game MY way, or it's the highway. It's not like I'm demanding he do anything more than be considerate, honest, attentive and loving. THAT'S IT. He can't muster up those basics, he's not a human worthy of my concern.
I have to run now ladies, but I wanted you to know I am fine, I am strong and I've stopped worrying about whether I'm doing all the "right" things. I'm doing what I can, the best I can and that's just peachy with me.
Love you all.
ETA: Just want you to know I'm in a place where I can say I have survived infidelity. Whether the marriage survives it or not is a story still to be written.
[This message edited by weepy at 2:12 PM, March 6th (Friday)]
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I am fine, I am strong and I've stopped worrying about whether I'm doing all the "right" things. I'm doing what I can, the best I can and that's just peachy with me.
You go girl!
You sound (and ARE) wonderful.
Love you too.
Amen, sister! A letter from the MOW yesterday. We read it and then burned it in the fireplace. I certainly can't discount the possibility that they are in contact with each other under my radar, but if that is the case, it is only perpetuating their own dysfunction and I am fully prepared to call it quits if I ever discover that. I will not be sucked into that!
Leaving tomorrow to visit the new grandbaby. Yeah!!! Wishing you all a GREAT week. Each of us is amazing!
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R
I am not nearly as calm about ow contact. I just feel like ours is moving towards fatal attraction status. She i just so in love with him and I think really expected him to leave me for her, even after 4 1/2 years of that not happening and now a year and a half of him not speaking to her. It makes me so nervous, especially for my kids. I don't want them to witness any of her craziness.
Weepy, oh Weepy!! You sound amazing! I am seriously, together and in control and emotionally stable and everything I want to be. I am so happy for you and proud of you!!
Ok, LH, what does PA mean? lol You said you wouldn't do Retrouville with a H who is PA. Couldn't figure out what that meant.
He is such a fuckwit. I do NOT have "idiot" tattooed across my forehead anymore.
Will catch up tomorrow. I'm fucked. Night tribe.
Now saying the poems that he wrote comments next to were not about MOW or the A.
Oh for Christ's sake, couldn't he come up with something better than that?! He is backed into a corner and he knows it. Next it will be "that's not my handwriting".
((((UKG)))) I was so hoping that 1) there was a logical explanation adn 2) that he would deliver it.
Stay strong Ukg.
Kalamity, she is still writing.
Good for both of you for dealing with this together.
Refresh your spirits with the grandbaby.
Ok, LH, what does PA mean?
ME forcing PA H into any therapy would just result in him being justified that I am only out to control him and he would subsequently sabotage every effort.
I know that sounds incredibly jaded, but thats how it is. He must want to do this for himself and for us.
I will not accept being his bashing post for his failures, KWIM?
His take after his last IC session that it was for the most part a waste of time and money; he questioned her ability as a trained experience professional; she didnt get him at all; they didnt make any progress because she kept wanting him to do the work without showing him how; she mentioned too many times that he was there only because of me and lastly, he was a self sabotager and didnt want to be helped (said with incredulously ).
When I asked what his POA was now, he said he didnt know. I suggested retrovouille again, or maybe an Imago therapist, to which he answered, he is not ready to "go there" now.
Which is totally contradictory to his analysis of the failure of his IC sessions.
Seems to me he has never been ready, nor will he ever.
Does he expect me to force him to?
(((UKGirl))) How are you???
ME forcing PA H into any therapy would just result in him being justified that I am only out to control him and he would subsequently sabotage every effort.
LH2 - unfortunately you are so right. He would use it against you as opposed to using FOR him. I am so sorry. Is there anyone in the family/community that could talk to him in an advisory role that he might listen to?
UKG - You ok? I am worried we haven't heard from you?
FNF - You too. Everything ok?
Wild week here. I have been on an emotional roller coaster NOT related to infidelity. There have been 2 unexpected deaths in the last week in our wider circle of friends. One was a suicide (very, very sad on soooooo many levels) and another was an absolutely tragic car accident. Going to memorial services really puts things in perspective. You can read my post in general under "truthsetmefree"s post but I have to say quite honestly: I would rather deal with my situation than have lost the love of my life a few years after meeting them when I was still so young.
I know you are right, it's just hard to take.
He actually wrote this line in a (2003, during the A) Xmas card to me “and your reflection, my mistress, lurks in the same windows” and at the time said it was a reference to me, that I was his mistress. HUH? I told him that I feel so humiliated that he was PRESENTING me with his affair. How dumb was I?? After all, what am I supposed to read into his “poetry”? Know what? In the original, the words “my mistress” were not there. He put them in later. He gave it to me three years later. How arrogantly cruel can you be? He was sneering at my ignorant and innocent state. Of course he says not. I was beside myself yesterday. He is still insisting there was no one else. He said something about everyone is entitled to one mistake, unfortunately his was a catastrophic mistake. And he was so sorry.
And he was not having another affair when he wrote the lines “And I will not chastise nor berate you for falling into the same honey-sweet trap” which he says might have been added later or might not have been about an affair or might have meant something completely different – he doesn’t know because he was writing so much at the time and it was unfair of me to keep picking out the same lines, blah, blah. He knows I don’t believe him.