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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts II
Ingrid
♀ Member
Member # 20126
Default  Posted: 3:13 PM, January 28th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear grownup:

You said this:

"Feeling: went to my first Sanon meeting so I feel overwhelmed

Affirmation:I have great friends that are assisting me with breaking from codependence

Need: Oh, please let me sleep through the night just once this month

Ownership:I am way to desperate to want someone to care for me"

SelfCare/Sobriety: I went to my first SANON meeting"

Friend:

I know there's so much going on here, in your relationship and with you. I hear you. And I am facing the same problems. Just know. None of us have the ultimate answerws. Not yet.

IF I had it to do over again however, I would never let my husband back in the home unless and until he was sober for 3 months, in in recovery. I was a fool. Liveand learn


Posts: 232 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: L.A. CA
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, January 28th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I took another step in gaining my independence today. I called my lawyer, and told her to cancel the court date to try and get me and my daughter moved to Florida to live with him.

He has been acting like a total jerk lately, with no remorse, no humility, no interest in counseling, and we have had the worst ice storm in 3 years here, and he was so busy nursing his hurt feelings last night that he did not even call to see if we were okay (we always lose power--and it is 19 degrees outside). That is showing me his true colors. If his hurt feelings are more important than checking on his family....

The court date was coming up in 2 weeks, and I don't want to go and fight and get permission to go, then back out, I will look unstable. So we are withdrawing it at this time.

Bye bye to all my dreams, about moving South and being financially stable, and the whole family thing.

But even today, he called at 5, and he is still cold and distant, all because I didn't wait by the phone. My sister says he is trying to manipulate me, and make it all about what is wrong with me (again), and wanting me to go begging back to him, to take the pressure off of him to get counseling.

I'm not going to do it. I choose to keep my self-esteem this time.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Exclaimation  Posted: 8:01 PM, January 28th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, every morning, sometime around 8:00am (Mountain Time) I will start a SPOSA* FANOS thread for us in Inspirations. I hope everyone will try to pop in during the day and do the exercise. And I think it would be great if we comment on each others' too especially if someone is needing a virtual hug or two.

For anyone who missed it (and because I didn't fully explain it) here is what FANOS is.

According to Google it was developed specifically for couples in Sex Addiction recovery.

Couples in recovery need to stay connected emotionally, and addicts' spouses need to get consistent updates about sobriety. Most couples find that in the busyness of a typical week, this connection gets easily lost.

Over time, Mark and Debbie Laaser have developed an acronym for couples to use as a guide for regular "check in" conversations. These conversations can be long or short, it's up to you. They use the acronym FANOS - from the Greek word phainos which means "to bring to light" - to guide the conversation:

Feelings – describe what / how you're feeling

Affirmations – find one or two things you want to affirm (if you're doing this with your spouse they should be about your spouse but for our purposes it can be about ANYTHING at all that was good or helpful or right for that day)

Needs – something you need today (if you're doing the exercise with your spouse it does not necessarily need to be something you need from your spouse but it can be)

Ownership – something you’ve done or said that you take responsibility / apologize for

Self-Care – report on the status of your self care attempts (or sobriety if appropriate. If doing the exercise with your SA, he will do sobriety. You may also do sobriety if you're working a 12-step recovery and have a sobriety date for stopping co-dependent behaviors etc. Or obviously if you have your own addiction problems you'd do sobriety for that.)

For those in R with a rSA try using this acronym as a guide for a conversation with your spouse every day or every few days. You will be amazed at the sense of ongoing intimacy you experience.

Like I said, I'll start a thread for us each day in Inspirations to share with each other instead of running the thread count up here.

(*SPOSA = Spouses Partners of SA)

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 8:02 PM, January 28th (Wednesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He does the, "I accept everything about you, why can't you accept everything about me?" guilt trip. The "I don't know if you really love the whole person I am. Even the SA (but he's not admitting it now) part?"

I'm starting to wonder if there's this SA handbook that tells them what to do, which sites to visit, and how to make their partners feel crazy.


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
island_girl
Member
Member # 22616
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm starting to wonder if there's this SA handbook that tells them what to do, which sites to visit, and how to make their partners feel crazy.

... there must be.


Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Mahatma Gandhi

Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jan 2009
island_girl
Member
Member # 22616
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to say, how common it is for our SA spouses to lay the "you're too controlling" trip on us. This is classic, from I have learned in counseling, in S-Anon and elsewhere. Do not believe it. Not even for one minute. It is a classic way for them to avoid taking responsibility for their lives.

Thanks Ingrid. He sometimes, before the A and I knew everything, could convince me that I was. But now I see that our whole marriage he's been blaming me or other people for his problems. Sometimes I contribute a little bit, but if there is the slightest bit of fault on my part, he shifts the entire blame to me. And I'm so glad that I finally see it.


Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Mahatma Gandhi

Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jan 2009
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, it's really LATE but I got the Daily s.p.o.s.a f.a.n.o.s. thread up for today.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=275515


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:22 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{quote} "I accept everything about you, why can't you accept everything about me?" guilt trip. The "I don't know if you really love the whole person I am. Even the SA (but he's not admitting it now) part?" {quote}

There is a limit to what one ought to accept in a spouse. Where the spouse's behaviours are physically or emotionally abusive, harmful or hurtful, it is selfish and manipulative for the spouse to demand acceptance of those behaviours. If your spouse is a mass murderer, or if he physically harms you and/or your children, no one (including the spouse himself) should accept that.

Sex addiction involves emotional abuse, betrayal of the monogamy, and disrespect of you as a wife and as a human being. My husband said remorsefully once, "I am sorry to have betrayed you in this way. This is the biggest sin one can commit against another - to have disregared another's humanity."

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 4:01 PM, January 31st (Saturday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Went to IC yesterday with the following insight.

Sometimes we feel responsible for what happened. If only I had been more exciting in bed, he would not have acted out.

Sometimes we feel we need to control the addict's behaviours. If I can have all his passwords and check his emails all the time, he will think twice about acting out.

These emotions, i.e. feeling responsible and wanting control, often mask the underlying feeling of helplessness.

Helplessness is scary, but we have to acknowledge and explore the feeling. We must learn to appreciate that we cannot control every aspect of life.

So this week, whenever I feel responsible or controlling, I will consciously stop and explore my feeling of helplessness isntead.

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:53 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So this week, whenever I feel responsible or controlling, I will consciously stop and explore my feeling of helplessness isntead.

Yes, although my therapist and I decided on fear rather then helplessness. But it's basically the same thing. Feeling helpless is scary isn't it?

IMO most codependent behavior (all the thing you mention) are fear driven. Fear based. We live in constant fear and hopelessness or helplessness. It's horrible.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Another reminder. The FANOS thread is up in Inspirations and right now I'm just talking to myself over there. Please check in ladies or I won't post it anymore. See above for the link.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
island_girl
Member
Member # 22616
Default  Posted: 1:47 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

These emotions, i.e. feeling responsible and wanting control, often mask the underlying feeling of helplessness.

Helplessness is scary, but we have to acknowledge and explore the feeling. We must learn to appreciate that we cannot control every aspect of life.

These valuable tidbits keep me coming back! This is so true.

Right now I'm feeling very helpless. I'm giving WH another chance, trying to forgive him for his PA, but he doesn't seem to want it. He says that it's pointless because I'll never change, I'll always be too controlling, etc. I told him that was the point of MC - that we both would change - and asked if he'd be willing to go. He says, "I guess." I'm not sure how long I should stick around for his half-hearted attempt. Because unless we both fully commit to it, I can't see our M surviving.


Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Mahatma Gandhi

Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jan 2009
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

island girl, at least he is willing to go. Maybe something he hears in there will strike a chord in him --it is worth a shot. But, my SAH tells me the same stuff, about the M never working because "I" won't change--he wants me to change, yes, I've also heard I am too controlling, that I try to get inside his head too much, why can't I just let things be and live? The answer to that (I have tried to explain to him), is I would not feel the need to look inside his head if everything was okay--but it isn't--there is something very wrong with us and I worked hard to find out what it is, and I want us to get help, but he refuses. I can't just live pretending that there are no problems, it would kill my spirit.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
island_girl
Member
Member # 22616
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You're right. Being willing to go, even half-heartedly, is a step in the right direction for him. My H is just so inconsistent! It makes me crazy. Some days he says he'll do whatever he can to fix this, others he just doesn't care and wants to separate. I can't decide how much effort I should put in when I feel like he isn't doing that much. So I've started matching the level of effort that he gives, and that level keeps decreasing.

I just don't get how someone can be so screwed up and then spend the aftermath insisting that their spouse needs to change. It's irrational. But I guess that's the fog or the addiction, whichever problem they have.

I pretended (sometimes confronted it, but mostly ignored) that there was a problem for the past few years. And now it's so much worse. And harder to deal with. I wish I'd been more insistent to begin with, but with the gaslighting, I felt a little crazy demanding things.


Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Mahatma Gandhi

Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jan 2009
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I responded to the SPOSA forum in Inspirations, also.

I love this idea.
I would love to post more thoroughly more often.


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Naiveagain and Islandgirl,

I am half way through Don't Call It Love by Patrick Cairns (sp???). Compared to the other books I have read on SA, this one is the most dense and academic. While I do not recommend it as a first book you read (too scary if you are new to this), it outlines in painstaking details the "typical" recovery of a SA. It discusses the causes of SA itself, as well as the different stages of recovery (including how a SA might feel during each stage, the challenges a SA may feel at each stage, the tasks a SA has to complete at each stage, and the average time frame for each stage). When you are ready, you may wish to read it. It may answer a lot of your questions.

7yearsbetrayed,

Thanks for starting the thread under Inspirations. I have to run home now (it's 5:30 pm here in Toronto), but I will participate tomorrow).

And you are right, helplessness, hopelessness and fear are basically the same things. I am working on acknowledging these feelings and working through them, and also exploring how my emotionally abusive father has contributed to my feeling helpless, hopeless and fearful since childhood.

On a personal note, I hope you are doing well. I know you had a tough time last year. You are in my thoughts often.

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 4:35 PM, January 29th (Thursday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
OurLifeBack
♀ Member
Member # 10620
Default  Posted: 6:28 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7Years - came here to do the FANOS thing - thanks for the thread. Will head there now!

I went to my first SAnon meeting last night. Wow. I would hightly encourage everyone to get in a group!


Me: BS 50 Him: WS 46 Married 15 years / Together 19
DDay: 4/28/06 & many more after that -- there are still a lot of blanks & I dread the telling
01/28/08 - renewed EA with OW. SA confirmed. Taking a time out.
06/13/08 - discovered EA with OW#2.

Posts: 1141 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Florida / Chicago - Whatever!
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:56 PM, January 29th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Island girl--that is a big part of our problem. When we have a disagreement, or there is a problem, he wants to run. One day he loves me and I am the best thing that ever happened to him, then the next day he can't take this anymore and he wants to leave.

The ups and downs have killed me. Every time he says he is leaving I die a little bit more, until I want him to just go already and get it over with, so I can get some sanity back. My sister says he does it for manipulation.

I don't know why he does it, but all I do know is, it makes for a very unstable relationship.

Oh, Birdwatch, thanks for the book idea, I will see if I can find it here somewhere. I read something else by him, I think Out of the Shadows, and it was enlightening.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 7:58 PM, January 29th (Thursday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
island_girl
Member
Member # 22616
Default  Posted: 12:43 AM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes thanks for the book recommendation, birdwatch. I have a list I'm ordering from Amazon now so maybe I'll add it.

Naive Again - Exactly, and my H has always been that way too. Even about little things. If I'd bug him about not doing the dishes he'd say "if you keep bothering me, I'll never do it again." It's such a 2-yr old response. And I feel like this is just the same thing but now it's that he'll leave, won't talk, won't go to counseling, or whatever. I finally told him that he has to figure it out for himself. I'm not going to push him to do something he doesn't want to do. Although I just might not stick around depending on his behavior. I didn't tell him the last part, but I figure that's implied based on past conversations.


Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Mahatma Gandhi

Posts: 2760 | Registered: Jan 2009
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 6:16 AM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The control discussions reminded me of some discussions my H and I have had on the subject.....

For him, he said for the longest time he managed life by trying to control other's reactions to him, so that he would not have to control himself. The illusion of having control over much of his life allowed him to continue to act out and not face his own issues. Trying to maintain the idea he could control others kept his focus outward. How can I manipulate the outcome I want, how can I get them to feel/believe/think X.

Even when he DID achieve his goals, the victories were hollow. So he fools me into thinking he's a wonderful husband. He can't even enjoy it, because he is always haunted by the thought "If she reaaallly knew me, she wouldn't love me".

That cycle was pervasive in all his relationships that mattered to him.

What we came to at the end of all this discussion is that CONTROL is an ILLUSION. At least the way he used to think of it.

The ONLY things we can control are our words and our actions. We can't control our feelings, we can work at tryiing to control our thoughts and perceptions, but in the end we each only can control what we do or say.

He says its scary and liberating all at the same time.

I hope once he gets more self-acceptance, self-love, even, the scary goes away and it is just liberating for him.

There's my ramblings, but at the time they were pretty illuminating to us......

Happy Friday!

[This message edited by JustWow at 6:18 AM, January 30th (Friday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Ingrid
♀ Member
Member # 20126
Default  Posted: 11:59 AM, January 30th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Sex addiction involves emotional abuse, betrayal of the monogamy, and disrespect of you as a wife and as a human being."

Dear whoever said this: Sorry I cannot remember if it was Birdwatch or 7yrs.

But, you are soooo right. Thank you for this.

The question really is for all of us, what do we do with it? How do we help ourselves amongst this?

That's what I am trying to work on. Going to an Al-anon group just now to try to get help for ME. Then am going to get a manicure/pedicure. Then trying to find a job, and do what I can to discover what I can put up with and what I cannot.

Caught my hubby yesterday viewing youtube videos such as"women with big butt and hard ass", "woman in panty", big titts, give it to me",

I am heartbroken. Don't think my pervert hubby will ever change. This is unlikely for all you wonderful wives reading this too. YOU , as I must decide what we can live with, and what we want out of life.

I know for me, this is a hard one, aswe have a family, a marriage, a friendship for over 20 years.

I wish you all God's best.


Posts: 232 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: L.A. CA
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