This is what Niave again said.
It is how I feel too.
I am at the place where I know my husband is a f_____ idiot and I don't love him anymore, after what he did to me. He's been verbally and emotionally abusive to me too lately.
I'm at the place where I pray God will either heal our marriage or provide an escape route for me, especially financially.
IF I were any of you beautiful women reading this now who have jobs, my advice would be to leave your loser SA husbands immediately. They're most likely never going to change. And yes, you and me deserve better. I am finding I'd rather be alone than to be married to a man who is lusting after other women. It's just sick.
It's not right; it's not God's way. They're sick. Get out while you can.
Married 19 years
2 teen boys'
*It will happen again**
[This message edited by Ingrid at 2:32 PM, February 9th (Monday)]
birdwatch--What I am doing right now, (if he doesn't decide to Divorce me again after my phone tirade), is that even though he has told me he will make the cable and phone bills available for transparency, I am not going to check anymore. I am doing that for me, not him. It is too painful for me to have to keep checking on him, I get physically ill every time.
I will know when he is in recovery, because he will be different. He has told me he is committed to changing. It is on him. I can't watch everything he does. He will know if he messes up again. I will maybe ask him from time to time how he is doing. But I have noticed I can "feel" it--his addiction. He will be better when he comes clean with me about his feelings, can ask me about mine, quits being defensive and blameshifting, among other things. Whether he uses the porn or not is not important. What is important is his attitude. Whether he can love me with his heart instead of just his insecure neediness. Whether he can share his whole life with me, instead of just what he wants me to see. Whether his views on the outside world change, and he releases some of his inner anger. I will feel it, when this happens. If it does not happen, I will know he is not working on recovery, and I will decide how long I will live like this and when I have had enough.
If your not in the mood because you don't feel safe, don't let yourself be used as his sexual outlet. If you're fooling yourself into believing that by never turning him down, maybe he'll want you more, well, how's that been working for you.
It made me feel like I was being used when I did this. And I was. And I was allowing it. Further, it helped H with the lie he told himself that our sex life was normal. None of these are good things.
I'm gonna pull a quote from a pm 7yrs sent me about healthy attachmet in a relationship, I hope she doesn't mind but it is very helpful, I think:"
This is such good advice! Thank you.
As for me, I don't think I will ever want to make love with my SA husband ever again. He's disappointed me time and time again, and I will not give my body and heart to a man of such caliber.
Why just last week, I found several "porn" Youtubes, he was accessing, and it disgusted me. Now maybe there are some women out there who would gladly view porn with their hubbys and think nothing wrong with it. Good for them. I am NOT one of them.
Dear Niaeve again:
You said this.
May Iask you, do you have means to support yourself?
If so, WHY, do you take such abuse????
OH poor him, the childhood he had to endure. I thought the same thing with my pitiful husband. How he was so lamed by his childhood, by his domineering mother, by his spineless father, by this, that, and the other, etc. this is nothing more than an excuse for their maturity, or lack of. Don't fall into this. It is a trap to avoid them taking responsibility. I see it, and I hope you do too.
Do you know HE is responsible for taking the "childhood he had to endure" and being a man still? Yes, it's true.
I didn't know this. But now I do. And I am trying to instill this into myself, first of all, and my husband too. That we ALL are responsible for our actions, our choices, our lives.
"I see a loving, kind man, with vulnerabilities, who did not get much of a chance at a normal life because of the childhood he was forced to endure."
Oh poor him.!!! Now is this any reason for him to become a sex addict? To abuse and/or neglect his wife? YOU??? For him to be a horrible dad? For him to retreat from his responsibilities? NO!!
It is not. But if he does, it is HIS choice still.
Please friend, I see you getting way too sympathetic towards a real loser, like my husband is as well. Stand firm. He must know his responsibilities, know the price it is being a dad, etc.
Don't let him get away with telling you shit, and you believing it. Poor him. This is not an excuse for him stepping up to the plate for once. Or for you, his wife, expecting it from him.
You have every right to expect it from him. He's the man, the father of your kids, your husband.
Now hold him accountable to his roles.
You have every right to feel your anger and pain and sense of betrayal. If he is also being abusive, it would be very hard to see the redeeming qualities that would make someone want to work on it. Does your H show any remorse at all? If you truly feel he is an awful person to live with, can you find a way financially to be on your own? If I do decide to leave my H, I have been a SAHM for 20 years, and the thought of having to support my kids is scary, but I have already gone for resume help, and I am going to start sending my resume out next week.
I think the thing most of us that stay realizes is that we are dealing with someone who is ill. It is not normal for a decent person to do the kinds of things our husbands do. I have no interest at all in seeking out male escorts or spending all day on the computer looking at naked people having sex or sending parts of my anatomy to strangers over the internet. That is abnormal. So we realize that there is something wrong there--and especially if we have decent husbands, who try hard to do the right thing, it is easier for us to see that there is a split in their core, and once we educate ourselves about this disease, we can a lot of times see where that split started. It makes it easier to understand their strange behavior, not really easier to stomach it, but easier to understand it. And, because this is an illness, if the addict wants help, he can very successfully treat this problem.
But it all depends on the addict. If you have one that shows no remorse, and doesn't really care that it is hurting you, then it is a lot harder to work on this.
I will always love my H, even if I leave. I will always care about him, and hope that he one day gets help on his own, even if we don't make it. But I won't stay indefinitely, if he does not get help.
[This message edited by grownup at 3:15 PM, February 9th (Monday)]
I do not have the means to support myself right now, but when I am ready to go, I will find a job and do it. I have confidence in myself that I will be able to find a job, I am just hoping I can find one that pays well enough so I don't have to take 2 jobs to support us. But when I have had enough, I will not let finances stop me.
My SA is not a bad dad. He has actually been an incredibly wonderful step-dad. He cares about all 4 of my kids, and has spent sleepless nights talking with me about them when they are having problems.
He has a very kind heart. He will give the shirt off his back to someone in need. He just okayed me spending $200 to try to save a kitty we found in a dumpster.
He treats me very well many times, but when he feels attacked in any way, he gets over-defensive and attacks back. This is his problem. This comes from his low self-esteem. I can stay, because normally I have pretty healthy self-esteem, and do not need him to pump my ego constantly. But I do have my bad days (like today!)
Right now, he is working 12 hour nights, and sending all his money home (except for an allowance I give him), to support us.
Also, I am pretty spiritually driven. I believe he is one of God's children, and I believe we met for a reason. I have been somewhat co-dependent after my last relationship, and have some healing to do. This relationship has forced me to look closer at myself, and who I am, and how I figure in all this. I have been growing spiritually, but it is painful at times.
I will be okay. Whatever happens here, I will come out of this stronger and wiser. I don't really like the pain from this, but it is a part of growing. I am hoping he comes out of this stronger and wiser too, but that is his choice. Whatever, right now, I feel our paths are intertwined for a while yet.
I am sorry you are feeling such rage.
NaiveAgain had written a heartfelt post. However, I suspect that even if each of us were to post the reasons why we stay in our marriages, it will not provide any solace or clarity to you.
Not everyone believe it is worth fighting for - and you are totally within your right to make that decision. Lack of financial resources may be overcome - and you should explore your options with your counsellor. Feeling resentful and angry at your husband AND yourself because you believe you are "forced" to stay is not healthy.
One thing to be clear - none of us condone our husband's behaviours. We agree that our husbands have broken their vows and betrayed us. We will not stay in our marriages if our husbands continue to act out or refuse treatment.
When we say our husbands had traumatic pasts, we are in no way excusing their behaviours. Their backgrounds are explanations, not justifications, for their addictions. We all demand our husbands to accept responsibility and face the consequences of their actions.
Also, not all our husbands are neglectful, psychopathic jerks. Many of them are otherwise loving human beings, husbands and fathers.
I have a dear friend who died from alcoholism a few years ago. She lied to, and stole from, her husband to buy alcohol, even though she was hospitalized on numerous occasions for kidney and liver failures. I think of her a lot, and reflect on the vulnerability of all of us as humans. I know as a fact she is not an immoral, callous, or despicable person, even though she lied and stole and broke her husband's heart.
As I said, no matter what I or any other person say, it will likely not provide you with the answers to the questions you really want to ascertain, "how could this be happening to you", "how could someone you love hurt you so", "how can you forget and/or forget the betrayal", "how can you ever regain trust in others and in the world", "how did I get myself in a (financial) situation where I feel I have no choice but to stay"?
Please take care of yourself, and I wish you peace of mind. Do remember not to transfer your anger towards us who decide to stay in our marriages. Do post whenever you need and seek support here.
Wow this thread exploded!
Not healthy. When I had my little breakdown today, I instinctively grabbed the phone and dialed, and now I realize that was a good thing. I was sharing my pain, and it was raw. He was the cause of it, so he deserved to hear it, not my mom, or my friends, he needed to hear it. It made me vulnerable, because I was not sure how he would handle it (actually, I figured he would not handle it well). But you know what, my panic attacks quit after I got that stuff out to him. I don't think that is coincidence.
And I think my IC would approve. I took a chance, and shared my intimate feelings, even though they weren't pretty, and whether he can handle them or not, it is another step for me on my way to healing myself, and being true to who I am, as opposed as playing Mrs. Nice person who will never reveal her innermost self if it makes others uncomfortable. It was scary, but it felt good.
[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 7:41 PM, February 9th (Monday)]
Can you imagine how hard it must be to be a CSAT? How on earth do they figure out what is truth and what is lies?
I imagine that must be hard. I think a good CSAT or any therapist dealing with addicts expects them to lie in the beginning. Sometimes *I* can tell it's a lie b/c it doesn't make sense.
And let's be honest, *some* of our SA partner's aren't always very creative. I bet they all come in there with similar lies and CSATs have heard it all before.
I guess, as in my case, it's due to finances, being completely strapped for money and having no help, and no where to turn. But for others who have financial means, a job at least, I do not understand it. At all. I do not understand why they stand for anything less than a man who adores them and willl be faithful to only them.
IMO, adoring is relative.
I'll only speak for myself, but what my partner has done (I don't know the extent of his behaviors to be honest)isn't that bad compared to what I've experienced for others. I know I've got a lot of work to do on me.
Hi. YES, there are several great S-Anon support groups in our L.A. area! PM me if you want...xxoxoxoxox
We do coffee, too...:)
Awww...I WISH you could've gone on our S. Calif. Women's S-Anon retreat this week-end! It was in Santa Barbara...
So great to get to know other S-Anon ladies from meetings I don't normally go to in the L.A. area...
Hope to see you in our Pasadena meeting some time...
p.s. - Thinking of you ALL here...I read but find it hard to keep up w/ this site...so I'm trying to at least stay in this forum...catch up...
[This message edited by ScribblingMum at 12:49 AM, February 10th (Tuesday)]
When my XH and I separated and were divorcing, I was snooping on his e-mail account back then. I found an e-mail from the OW urging him to get help. She wrote "D, I'm serious. This is something you should look into." And then attached a link to a sex addiction rehab center in Springfield, Illinois. She copied and pasted a long definition of what sexual addiction was, and how to get help.
This could not have been a joke. It was too serious.
I'm baffled as to why she sent this to him and was it possible that I never really knew this about him for the 23 years we were married. How did he hide it from me, but she was so concerned?
What the heck did I miss?
Can you imagine how hard it must be to be a CSAT? How on earth do they figure out what is truth and what is lies
miadianna - I think from reading these posts, most of us missed this about our H's, some of us for a very long time. SA's are masters at hiding things. They have been hiding stuff --most of them from their childhood. My H's family had no idea, I was the only one after 3 other wives and his whole family that figured it out. And that was because I realized that what he was doing wasn't normal. And started asking lots of questions, and researching on the internet.
That is the link to sexaholics anonymous--take a quick look at what sex addiction is, and look at the quiz to see if he may have an addiction, and see if any of that sounds familiar to you. That is a good place to start, to see if that is what you have been dealing with.
[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 6:09 AM, February 10th (Tuesday)]
I let someone treat me like this for all these years. I stopped expecting to be respected at least six years ago and I think now it was more like 9 when my daughter was born. There is a hockey dad that treats his wife very well (at least when around us) and I just realized that he treats me with all those same courtesies. When he speaks to me he is actually having a converstion. He moves ahead of me to open a door and does that same for his wife. I couldn't find the garbage can to throw my creamers and stir stick and he actually took the garbage out of my hand to throw it away. Then I noticed that other men are doing similar things with their spouses and others. Does this sound weird? This is like an epiphany for me. I want to be treated like this all the time. I can't go back to anything else---ever.
I'm so mad but it is partly at me for letting me lose that. And I totally want to beat him senseless for not believing I was worthy of it.
But after reading everyones posts on here, there seems to be a lot that our husbands have in common. And mostly, it seems to be something missing in them, that "real" feeling, the superficiality, the persona that they show to everyone else because they are afraid to show their real selves. I think I could probably spot it a bit quicker now that I have seen it. And with my H, you know he is lying when his mouth is moving.
Yes to that! I am also starting to spot people who are SAs in the making.