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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts II
Katty
♀ New Member
Member # 23231
Default  Posted: 4:45 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have not posted for a few days as I am moving house tomorrow so all a bit chaotic but I have been taking a few minutes to read every day as you are all getting me through the days.

What is here today is so exactly my life! This is my second marriage and I was so blown away by him as he was so different from my first (sure is!) he was (is?) caring and kind and supportive - cooks dinner, tells me he loves me all the time, listens to me, supports my work, wants me to be happy (?)is ok with my wanting to be at home for a while says we will manage he will look after me.

All of these things my first husband would never do but he was not an SA! I have never met a man who is so sweet. My parents love him, my friends say he is great for me. Yet he is paying for sex with prostitutes, swinging, on chatlines making arrangements to meet women and couples most days, watching porn... etc etc. How can they be two different people? It must be exhausting!

Our counsellor was going down the road of him treating me as a mother figure which I was not at all comfortable with but maybe she had something???

It is so difficult to hate him or chuck him out when he is such a nice guy..... I dont have much trouble with dates and anniversaries but I do have a real problem with places. He has used prostitutes that live very close to our new home and I am dreading meeting them in town. He has also had swinging sessions in a local town and I have not been there since.

I am still not sure what I am going to do once I have moved house. I am delaying any decision as I have so much on my plate at the moment. Of course he is being loving and supportive.....


Me BS 48
Him WS 53 (Although he never admits to more than 49 on AFF etc..)Are they blind these people???
No children
Together 9 years
DDay #1 six months in
DDay #2 six months later
DDay #3 you get the picture

Posts: 22 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: UK
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Must be something about these guys and food, because mine also cooked dinner. I've never been with a guy that would cook for me. And he is a service kind of guy, firefighter, Police Officer, EMT, Saver of Everybody else.
He would do nice things for me, or bring me things, and tell me he loved me every day(something my 1st H was uncomfortable saying), and I thought he was the neatest guy in this whole world. Seriously!

But I later realized, that even in giving, it is all about him. He isn't giving from the heart, he is giving to get the accolades, to be "The Good Guy", and here is the difference. I am usually fairly quiet kind of person, and when I give, I don't really need the person to know that I helped them. I actually get kind of embarrassed sometimes. I prefer to give behind the scenes, and not make a big deal out of it. When he gives, he makes a big deal out of it. When he leaves the tip, he will "ask" me (to show me what he is leaving), hey is this good, or if it is more than 20%, he will go up to her and personally hand it to her. He has given me gifts, and if I don't jump up and down appropriately, he will get disappointed and make me feel terrible, but it is supposed to be a gift! If he does something good for someone else, he will go up to others he knows and tell them all what he did. Brag, brag, brag. I used to think (even before knowing about SA), that he could certainly use a bit of humility, as he is very good at blowing his own horn.

ldlh - I think you are on to something with the "mommy" issues. Mine has a love/hate relationship with his mom, and blames her pretty much for everything. But he will go to her when he needs something, and expect her to bail him out of bad situations. He told me when we first met he hated his mom, she was abusive, she broke up their family by having affairs, and he wouldn't really care if she passed on. Yet, he will call her to talk if he is upset and we are fighting, he will ask her for money, and one time she did something to help him, and he hugged her and told her he loved her, and was crying. (He cries real easily!)

I later found out that his dad was SA, and had affairs, and was quite abusive to his wife. However, he made his dad out to be perfect.

And he does look at me to fix his problems, because he will walk away from them and leave me with the messes. It is certainly like dealing with a large 200 pound child!


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ldlh and NA

About the mommy role. I've had this gut feeling that this happens because of a few reasons.

I think because SA's lack healthy coping skills, this spills into a lot of areas in their lives. Initially, I think they feel loved and cared for when we slip into that caretaking role. Its a role too many poeple with codepndant behavior patterns slip into really easily. An unhealthy balance develops.

Then, add to this, these SA's are looking for reasons to justify their acting out. Haven't we helped in that charade by slipping into the momy role. It helps them in their justifications of why they don' want sex with us when they act out. Never mind they wanted it yesterday

There was a point, early in our false R, where H said, "I don't really love you like a man should love his wife, more like a sisterly love" (read ILYBNILWY).

I told him that was pretty sick, and asked if he screwed his sisters 4-5 times a week. He was dumbfounded, truly. HE believed this line when he said it in his head, but those distorted voices in his head never questioned themselves. You could literally see the confusion on his face as he realized the stupidity and falseness of his statement.

And about the generosity "for show" versus for real thing. Mine has done that too, in the past. I wonder if it isn't about the "show" so much, as their lack of self worth. Maybe it is the same thing. But, if at their core they feel unworthy and unlovable, it might be hard for them to extend a gift and KNOW that it is sending the message they want to send. All those loving things you did, quietly, with confidence, simply knowing you were giving love didn't reach him as being loved because he KNEW no one who really knew him would love him. So, if he is unreachable himself, it kind of makes sense that he isn't quite sure about what message his giving is sending. I thik I'm talking in circles, but I guess I'm trying to say that the "show" might not be some calculated con, but rather a really insecure soul trying to be kind and not understanding if what he did was received that way......IDK if that makes any sense.

I just know these guys are soooooo broken that a lot of hurtful, stupid things they do are out of ignorance, not maliciousness.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 7:36 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He has given me gifts, and if I don't jump up and down appropriately, he will get disappointed

Same here! If I don't jump up and down, he takes it personally.

Re: the mommy issues, if that's the case I could definitely see why a lot of SAs seriously trigger when the partner is pregnant or there are small kids. When the real kids come and it's not all about them anymore, it's panic time for so many of them. I've said several times that sometimes I feel like I have a child older than me.

Sometimes I think they are looking for the unconditional love they never had. They want someone to be there no matter how bad they screw up, want trust no matter how much they lie (we all know that one too well).

Re: nice guy issues, reading about this from different people makes it easy to see how they can charm the pants off of counselors, esp inexperienced female ones! After all, they are the nice guy who does everything for the one they love (except be honest) and there partner is making a big to-do about nothing


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ldlh:

Sometimes I think they are looking for the unconditional love they never had. They want someone to be there no matter how bad they screw up, want trust no matter how much they lie (we all know that one too well).

YES!

And BTW, they lie so darn much because they believe they are not loveable, they DON"T TRUST ANYONE would really love them if they really knew them. And what they are doing is unloveable, but it is the only thing they trust to soothe the hole they have for uncoditional love. They act out and lie to self-soothe. So this viscious do-loop is all part of the broken, distorted thought process.


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JustWow said:

And BTW, they lie so darn much because they believe they are not loveable, they DON"T TRUST ANYONE would really love them if they really knew them. And what they are doing is unloveable, but it is the only thing they trust to soothe the hole they have for uncoditional love. They act out and lie to self-soothe. So this viscious do-loop is all part of the broken, distorted thought process.

If I get mad at him for lying or doing something disrespectful, it's just proof to him that no one could really accept him as he is. Then it gets turned around on ME like I'm supposed to be okay with anything and everything he does.


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JustWow & LDHL - you guys have both hit it right on the head--yes, my H cried one night on the phone to me that no one loves him unconditionally except his dog. It made me feel so sad for him. And I guessed it went back to his mom, because of all people, your mother is SUPPOSED to love you unconditionally. I do, for my children, even if they did something horribly wrong, I would always love them, just not approve of what they did.

But he doesn't understand it is different for a grown up. I can love him, but not if he continues to abuse me. That would be disrespecting myself. So, I still care about him at this point, and I would really love him to be happy, but I don't love him anymore, right now, because he has not behaved in a loving way towards me, or treated me with anything but disrespect and dishonor.

I feel bad for him, because I understand how insecure he is, and if he would just give it a chance, get some help, I would support him 100%, and would probably grow to love him again (I think), but he just can't do it, and I can't love him unconditionally.

Oh, and I get that the bragging and bravado is all a part of his insecurity. I actually saw past that a long time ago, because even back then, I understood on some level that he did not have the inner strength to feel good about himself, and not have the need for everyone else to feed his ego incessantly, but it is too tiring for me to do that at this point, especially as in my case he has gotten quite abusive with me.

I think still the only thing I can say about all this is it is just sad.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 9:12 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, so many posts in just 24 hours! I think it is important for us to step back and remind ourselves what SA is about.

Many sex addicts are loving husbands, fathers and citizens. Most have no intention of huring their spouses or families. Their addiction is a dark secret, likely began years ago in response to a traumatic experience or to a stressful event. They act out as a way to escape from the difficulties in reality. This is the genesis of the cycle of addiction: where stress leads to acting out; acting out leads to alienation, shame and guilt; alienation, shame and guilt leads to further stress; stress leads to escalated forms of acting out (e.g. compulsive masturbation to porn to cybersex to dating to intercourse), and so on. At some point, real chemical/neurological changes occur, and the addiction takes on a physical dimension.

Many sex addicts do attempt to stop these behaviours, most by acting-in and going cold turkey in secret. However, just like asking an alcoholic to ďjust stop drinkingĒ, acting-in does not resolve the root causes of the addiction, does not teach the addicts the necessary life skills to deal with stress, and does not lead to sustainable recovery. The tragedy is that when the life of a sex addict gets out of control and becomes unmanageable, they become more depressed and withdrawn, and at the same time, more obsessive in trying to control the acting out and in driving the problems underground. Their attempts to stop by themselves almost inevitably fail, which ironically worsen their feelings of lack of control, self blame, guilt and secrecy. These later behaviours inevitably affect family life. The addicts become defensive and secretive, they blame others to ease their own guilt, they demand more love because they wish to fill the void of self-blame and guilt, they try to hold onto any resemblance of control over other aspects of life, and they become more tired and distracted because leading two (or three or four) lives is exhausting.

Interestingly, while addiction cuts across gender, age, cultural and religious background, Dr. Carnesí studies show there is a large proportion of SA (in relative terms) who are middle age, have previously divorced and hold a graduate degree. Some addicts also possess a ďMaster of the UniverseĒ mentality. Like some of us will go straight to that tub of ice cream when we had a hard day to ďtreat ourselvesĒ, addicts may develop a sense of entitlement that they ďdeserveĒ to escape from the troubles and have some happiness. Itís only that instead of a tub of Ben & Jerry, they turn to sex. In my husbandís case, he is middle age, had a previous divorce and has a Ph.D. His Master of the Universe mentality manifests itself in wooing women who need ďrescuingĒ, like a woman whose life is difficult or lonely, and he would shower her with attention (emotional affair) and sex (cybersex and physical affair).

From my experience, an addict needs to hit rock bottom. That is, they need to admit their behaviours are unacceptable to themselves, and they are powerless to change alone. They then need to commit to recovery with outside help. They need to explore their past. They need to recognize the severe consequences of their actions. They need to learn that acting out does not reduce stress nor bring happiness, acting out actually brings more stress and unhappiness. They need to learn healthy ways to cope with stress. My husband told me that his IC made him realize that he does not want the rest of his life to be scarred by these destructive behaviours; that he does not want to feel worthless and ashamed anymore; that the acting out was exhausting and did not even bring him joy in the midst of acting out; and that his compartmentalization and rationalization no longer obscure that fact that he has hurt his wife, the one person he cherishes above all others.

Sorry this is such a long post Ė I have been feeling depressed for the past couple of days and I want to remind myself that recovery is a journey.

birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 4:44 PM, March 30th (Monday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 9:49 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA said:

I feel bad for him, because I understand how insecure he is, and if he would just give it a chance, get some help, I would support him 100%

Mine doesn't get that either.

We came close to splitting. Now he says he wants to change and stop having sex with me like I'm a whore. I'm not sure what his plan of action is, and I'm sure he'll try to do it all alone.

I also told him what I did. He didn't like that at all.

He doesn't think I should get mad at him b/c he does so many nice things for me.
That is sooo typical of an abusive person. If I get mad he'll bring up how he took me to Vegas, did this and that, and how all that doesn't seem to count for anything.

[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 9:51 AM, March 30th (Monday)]


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

New here (well, second time around -- posted here last year for same issues).

I've read the last couple pages of posts and agree that this is probably where I should be. As far as I KNOW, my FWH just has an issue with porn. Not excessive use, but it has escalated in the past to him looking at profiles on married dating websites. I made him promise no more porn or I was going to leave (that was about 6 mths ago). Two days ago I saw on the keylogger that he looked at porn AND looked up how to clear history/cache to get rid of the evidence. Obviously has a problem because I am relatively confident he does NOT want a D.

I haven't confronted him yet. I do realize that I am codependent and have to work on MYSELF.

How hard is this going to get? Does it get WORSE while they try to recover? He comes from a very dysfunctional family with an abusive, alcoholic father. His brother is in a program for drug/alcohol addiction and his sister has major relationship issues. He thought he escaped damage. Obviously wrong. I have SEEN him have a physical reaction before when he had to talk about his childhood so I know there are some deep scars there. I'm just soooooooo worried about what's going to happen when you open Pandora's Box!

Emotionally, I know it will be hard (for both of us). But what can I expect as far as his recovery? I'm afraid if he hasn't taken it further than porn that digging into his past will make him just go crazy and maybe take it to the next level.

And I have to admit, as a FBS, I'm TERRIFIED of him going to SA meetings full of weak people with sexual problems that apparently have no problem with casual encounters(read: opportunities galore). Does that make sense? I don't even like him going to bars!

I know I can't fix him. God knows I've tried! I just don't know if I CAN go down this path. His PA/EA 11 years ago left me with severe chronic PTSD that still affects me on a daily basis. We have four small kids. I can't trust him. Will I EVER be able to trust him?

I just don't know if I have the strength or desire to stay in a relationship with someone with severe issues that may subside, but never truly goes away. I WANT to stand by him because I do love him tremendously and know that he has no control over this issue. It's just so hard to get past the "I deserve better" thing, you know?

Insights, please?

[This message edited by hoping2heal at 10:56 AM, March 30th (Monday)]


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thought of something else....

How do you get the actual truth? Like I said in my previous post, as far as I know it's just been porn that that one week escalated into him looking at profiles. I was so disgusted by that that if I were to find out he actually had contact with someone I would NOT stay. No question about it. Never. And I believe he knows that.

You can read my profile, but back in 1998 he went on a business trip and when he came home four days later nothing was ever the same. Cold and distant from me for a few days before he sat me down and said he met someone on the trip. He and a guy he was with went with her and her friend to a club (for "something to do"). He SWEARS he didn't do anything with her. He said she would have slept with him but he didn't do anything. I asked how he knew she'd sleep with him if they hadn't done anything and he said he just knew. BUT, my common sense is at war here. You don't just meet someone, spend a few hours with them talking, and go home and tell your wife that you're not sure you love her. My common sense says that SOMETHING of significance happened to get his mind that screwed up. We had some horrendous fights during that time, where all kinds of horrible things were said (to be mean) and even through all that he's always maintained he never did anything with her. Even after he left me and pushed for D, he maintained his innocence. Which leads me to conclude that either a) he's telling the truth (which I choose to believe) or b) if he had done something, he won't even let himself admit it to himself. Taking that secret to the grave.

So he knows if I ever found out he was with someone else sexually I would leave. No doubt. So now I'm afraid that MAYBE there's more than porn but he would never, ever admit to that.

How do you get the actual truth? I NEED the actual truth, because for me that's make-it-or-break-it.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((hoping2heal)))
I can't help you too much about the recovery part, because my partner has not gotten that far. He admitted he has a problem, then said he would fix it himself (giggle, giggle), and is now in the process of pretending he is A-OK! We have mostly been discussing splitting, and he is going for an anullment supposedly, because he is so far into la-la land that at this point it is hopeless for me.

I don't believe SA meetings are what you are thinking they are. I have only been to COSA, and my H wouldn't go to a SA meeting or a counselor even if you threatened death, but from what I understand and have heard from the other ladies, a 12 step program like SA can be a lifesaver for an addict. I suppose there is a slight chance he could hook up with another guy there that is not serious about recovery, but honestly, if your H wants to find cheap women, he already knows where to look, he doesn't need someone else to lead him. Also, from what I understand, and I believe they are run like AA meetings somewhat, which I did go to with a former boyfriend who was an alcoholic, the senior members who are serious about recovery will call your H out on any falseness and lying, and hiding and pretending to be recovering. My alcoholic boyfriend (who was recovered for 11 years when I met him), could actually look at a person in the outside world and scope out if they were alcoholic or not. He would go to a meeting, and if another member spoke with him, and they weren't being truthful, he would call them on it. As in, "Brother, you need to take a long look at what you are saying there, because I don't think you are being truthful to yourself."

So I think going to a place like that, with others just like him, could be nothing but helpful, (as long as it is run correctly), because the other guys will see right thru him, and if he is serious about getting help, it will benefit him.

These are just my thoughts, again, I have never been to one, and my H won't go, so...

if he had done something, he won't even let himself admit it to himself
Yeah, about getting the truth, I realize I will never get it, unless my H goes into recovery, with a 12 step program and also a CSAT. Because he is so good at lying to himself, it makes it so much easier to lie to everyone else. And I truly believe there is much more to my H's story than what he has told me, because I can just feel it. It is my intuition, which I am learning to trust more, as it tends to be correct.

When one of the more senior members of this board reads your post, you will probably get better answers about SA meetings!

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 11:46 AM, March 30th (Monday)]


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Exclaimation  Posted: 1:40 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

birdwatch,
Wow. I wish I had 1/8th your eloquence and writing ability! That post is AWESOME! Very well said, thank you so much for taking the time to write it. We should all print that out and laminate it.

If any of you guys didn't read bird's post word for word, go back and read it! It's excellent!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
hoping2heal
I gave you a bunch of info via PM so I won't repeat it here but you brought up some new points here that I will address.

And I have to admit, as a FBS, I'm TERRIFIED of him going to SA meetings full of weak people with sexual problems that apparently have no problem with casual encounters(read: opportunities galore). Does that make sense?
I understand completely because I had the same initial reaction before I learned about sex addiction and recovery. First of all, SA meetings are closed (meaning only those desiring their own personal sexual sobriety are allowed to attend) and there are men only meetings. At this point, I still would not be comfortable with my rSA attending mixed meetings and he agrees. So, you can set a boundary that you prefer that your husband attend men only meetings. As NaiveAgain said, the beauty of meetings is that those with sobriety will call the newbies on their bullshit.
...if I were to find out he actually had contact with someone I would NOT stay. No question about it. Never.
Are you 100% certain? Really? It is so easy to say that. I'm sure you even think it right now, but the reality is so much different. Are you prepared to be a single mother to 4 young children? Can you support yourself? Will you have a place to live? Do you love your husband? Is it really unforgivable? Would you really throw away your marriage if he was in recovery and genuine about his desire for sobriety and to be a better man? (If he won't get into recovery and won't get sober, this is a completely different conversation because I do not believe that anyone should stay with an unrecovering SA if they can possibly avoid it.) But let's assume that he is the wonderful man that you fell in love with. He is a man who has a disease and who has made some horrible choices BUT he's willing to work a recovery program and be sober. Let's say he goes into recovery, gets sober and is working the steps. He's a new man. Now, it's time to give you full disclosure and in that disclosure he admits to having sex with someone else (even multiple OW.) Would you leave with no regard to the progress he's made in recovery? No matter what else has happened, if you find out he's had sex with someone else, you're GONE. Period. Right?

If that is the case, I honestly, think you need to divorce him right now and move on with your life. My gut says that he had sex on that business trip in 1998. As to why he gave you that bullshit story. Well, that's easy. Plausible deniability. He thought there was some kind of evidence that you might find or he feared the woman would contact you. He was giving you a preemptive plausible bullshit lie to cover it up. He confessed enough to feel less burdened by what he'd done but did not give up the full truth and risk having you leave him. He is racked with guilt over this and he may have even partially convinced himself that his lies are true. Even when he was saying he wanted a divorce, he didn't. He was punishing himself (he doesn't deserve you) He was scared and he was testing to see if you'd actually stay with him. He couldn't tell you the truth and can't tell you now, because you've told him you will leave.

How do you get the actual truth? I NEED the actual truth, because for me that's make-it-or-break-it. ... So he knows if I ever found out he was with someone else sexually I would leave. No doubt. So now I'm afraid that MAYBE there's more than porn but he would never, ever admit to that.
You've basically made it impossible for him to tell you the truth. I sent you the 4 core beliefs of the addict in the PM. He already feels that way without you telling him that you'll leave! He believes that if you knew him, REALLY knew him (or knew the truth about his acting out) you would leave him. He's terrified of being abandoned. He's terrified of being alone.

Your only hope for getting the truth is that he will choose recovery and sobriety. When he does that, he will learn to surrender the consequences and he will do the right thing. He will give you full disclosure even if he thinks you'll leave him. Because by the time he's that far into recovery he will be able to let you go if that is what you choose. Surrendering the outcome. For the addict they learn to do it when telling the truth. For the codependent they learn to do it when setting consequences. It's vital to both sides.

All that said, I don't for a moment mean that you should stay with him if he cheats AGAIN. If he falls off the wagon, loses his sobriety and cheats, leaving him is a very reasonable consequence.

The the 4th post on this page outlines my boundaries and consequences as they stand now that my rSA is sober and in recovery.
http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=243946&AP=341&HL=

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
foray
♀ Member
Member # 17842
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does anyone know of any yahoogroups or other chat boards for spouses of SAs? I joined the COSA 12-step Yahoo!group, hoping that it would be an exchange of emails from other people in our situation, but it's not (I can see in the archives that it used to be, but something changed), it's just regular notices about online meetings. Right now I don't have the confidence to participate in an online meeting, I need to start with something more informal. This SI site is great, of course, but the main focus of SI is infidelity in general - I'm looking for something that is for spouses of SA in particular.


Me: BW, 41
Him: WH, 44
Married: 7 yrs (together 14)

D-Day #1 1/15/08 LTA: summer 2004 - Dec 2007
D-Day #2 2/23/09 a dozen (more or less) prostitutes during "R"


Posts: 250 | Registered: Jan 2008
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Right now I don't have the confidence to participate in an online meeting,
I think you should do it anyway. You shouldn't hide in your computer (yes, I know I'm posting on a message board but I've also been to REAL meetings in real life.) In fact, you should go to a real COSA meeting.

Keep posting here too but we all need real human contact, with IC and with a group, if we can find one, to truly recover.

And honestly, other than SI, I've never had luck finding an active online group. I joined a message board specifically for Codeps but it's DEAD. It's a ghost town.

I haven't been on the message boards at Recovery Nation but maybe they are more active.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7- Once again, you bring up some very valid points. Yes, I can totally understand that if he KNOWS I would leave if he's been with others then he would take that secret to the grave to avoid that. Totally makes sense to me.

And I also understand that like alcoholism, their actions are not exactly their own, but a product of the disease. But there are certain lines I WILL NOT cross. I may stay with a husband who would say, get in trouble with pot. But get in trouble with cocaine, and I walk. Same addiction, but different levels.

So I HOPE for his sake he can get sober. But if it comes out now, or 20 years from now, that he has been with other women, I'm gone. That is just NOT something I am willing to put up with in a husband -- whether it's due to an addiction or just stupidity. It's just something I do not want in my life. I have certain values and morals that I live by, and expect my spouse to live by. I will not stay with someone physically abusive. I will not stay with someone who steals. I will not stay with someone who sleeps with other women. If he breaks those FOR WHATEVER REASON, sorry, but I have to go. The ONLY thing that made me take him back in 1998 was the fact that I was confident he was telling the truth about not doing anything and he had respect to tell me there was a problem BEFORE it turned physical. And the upside of his PA in 1998 is that it showed me I AM capable of living without him. I have a college education and was making $100k+ before I quit to have kids. So I could definitely support myself (and my kids) by myself if I had to. But I don't WANT to. I WANT to stay married to him. I just want to know EXACTLY what I'm dealing with. I need the truth -- whether it be good or horrid -- but I need it so I can make a decision that is right for ME. Let's say he has been with other women and keeping that secret. That's HUGE. How do you rebuild a marriage and work on sobriety when there's the biggest lie of all right at the foundation of your marriage? Unless he can start from a clean slate, put it all out on the table to examine, and see where we are at, I just don't see how there's any hope of moving forward. If he's going to keep secrets, especially HUGE ones, well, that's not a marriage I want to be in. He can work on himself all he wants but those lies will still be between us, kwim?


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear hoping2heal,

I have read your profile and your posts briefly. I can tell that you are intelligent, articulate and rational. You seem to have clear ideas of what you want. It also appears that your husband's addiction has been brewing for many years.

You have many questions: How can you get the "truth"? How does recovery work? You also have developed some insights into your husband's childhood.

Alas, one important component is missing: How are YOU feeling? Not what you are thinking, not how the situation can be analyzed, not how you can develop a plan for your husband's recovery, but how YOU are FEELING.

During my first session with my previous IC, she asked me how I was feeling, and I talked for 45 minutes. She then said, "You have spent 45 minutes telling me what you think. But I am wondering how you feel."

When confronted with our spouses SA, we experience a lack of control. That's terrifying. To compensate, we try to control everything and make detailed plans. I am not advocating walking around blind. And you are right in setting boundaries. What I am suggesting is that if you slow down enough, you will see that inside that organized, logical, clear-headed, goal-oriented and rational shell, there is a woman who is feeling scared, hurt, confused and unloved.

Recognize and explore your feelings. Do not run away from them. Do not replace them with analysis and plans. Be gentle with yourself. Use the first year after D Day to heal yourself, then you can make whatever decision you wish.

I wish I am right there with you, so that I can ask you to slow down and give you a hug.

Love,
birdwatch

[This message edited by birdwatch at 4:42 PM, March 30th (Monday)]


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear 7yrsbetrayed,

Thank you very much for your compliment. I am blushing . Please know that I am only following your footsteps and you are a rock and an inspiration to all of us.

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awww..thanks bird! How am I feeling? I don't frickin' know! I've spent SOOOOOOO many years worried about how HE feels -- if I'm making him mad, if I'm enough, is he going to leave if I do xxxx? Throw being a full-time mother to 4 kids under the age of 6 in there and there IS no me!

Right now I'm just feeling tired. Gyped. Like I deserve better. Like I made a HUGE mistake taking him back after his first A. Mad at myself for not standing up for what I need and deserve. Just TIRED.

And I haven't even confronted him yet! sigh. As far as I know, he has absolutely no clue that I'm aware of his most recent "mistake".

Just trying to figure it all out. One minute I'm trying to look up CSATs for him. The next minute I'm angry because why should I always be the one to fix things. Then feeling hopeless that this can be "fixed". Then sad that I MAY have to leave for my own self-protection (emotional) and sad about what that would do to my kids' lives.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
foray
♀ Member
Member # 17842
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, March 30th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Y'know, sometimes when I read things here I think our partners are looking for moms, not mates.

Oh definitely! My IC has been telling me that for a year now Ė SAHís mom didnít pay enough attention to him when he was little, so heís spent his life trying to get his approval, and when he met me he turned to ME for the attention. When our first daughter was born, well Ö you know how much time infants demand. That was when he met his first AP.

So many things youíve all been saying sound like my SAH! (Although, okay, he doesnít cook much, but thatís because Iím a better cook.) Heís the kindest, most considerate and thoughtful guy in the world. I never in a million years thought he would cheat on me. Now I realize itís All About Him. If he brings me home a token gift or sends me a message, yeah he gets all upset if I donít react appropriately. Even when Iím having some anxiety (understandable, considering how he lied to me all of last year about being in R, and considering how recent my last D-Day was) he makes it All About Him. He talks about how Hard this is for him and how Worried he is and how Alone he feels. Alone??? What about me. Iím even more alone! Heís got two therapists AND he gets to go to meetings several times a week!!! Heís got all those SAA guys to fall back on!! Boy did that piss me off when he talked about how alone he felt. There are no COSA meetings in my area. All Iíve got is my IC. And you guys. And one friend that I just confided in.

want trust no matter how much they lie (we all know that one too well).

So so true!!! Thatís been on on-going issue for me. Heís lied so many times, his words donít mean squat to me, and yet he gets sooo hurt when he tells me something and I donít trust him.

At some point, real chemical/neurological changes occur, and the addiction takes on a physical dimension.

Iíve been looking for confirmation of this somewhere. Neither my IC nor his two therapists can confirm it.

And about feeling unloveable Ö both my SAH AND I feel that way about ourselves. Itís like my deep dark secret. I confessed it to him the other night, and he was kind of like ďoh. thatís it? thatís not so bad! I love you.Ē Well, I guess compared to being a SA, itís not so dark, but itís still scary for me!


Me: BW, 41
Him: WH, 44
Married: 7 yrs (together 14)

D-Day #1 1/15/08 LTA: summer 2004 - Dec 2007
D-Day #2 2/23/09 a dozen (more or less) prostitutes during "R"


Posts: 250 | Registered: Jan 2008
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