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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts II
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 12:42 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder if your husband is willing to attend a few couple's counselling sessions, so you can both discuss the situation openly. Preferrably, the counsellor will be an CSAT, or at least someone with experience in SA or addiction in general.

He's always been willing to go to counseling in the past, but after every one of his "transgressions", it's always been ME that pushes for MC, finds the counselor, sets the appointments, reminds him, etc.

I've finally hit the point where I know this is HIS issue. Yes, it is a marital issue that affects both of us and our kids. But I can't drag him to counseling. He knows it's there. He knows there's programs for SAs. This time, it's up to HIM to decide whether or not to save us. I've done all I can. Of course I will go to counseling, but HE has to be the one to push for it. I'm just TIRED of being the one to pursue and fix. These are HIS issues and HIS mistakes that brought us to this point. HE can work to fix them or I have to suck it up and leave.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is a really good post in general right now, "The process of self delusion", by UK girl, that I think may help some of us understand our SAh just a bit more--because I certainly see my SAh there in all 4 stages.

http for it is :

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=286950


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
foray
♀ Member
Member # 17842
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

h2h, I'm so sorry.
I've finally hit the point where I know this is HIS issue. Yes, it is a marital issue that affects both of us and our kids. But I can't drag him to counseling. He knows it's there.
I hit that point too, right after the second D-Day, when I realized WH was a SAH. I'd just spent the last year working so hard to repair our marriage, making lots of suggestions and requests of WH, making him a list of trust-building behaviors, asking him to read a certain book ... and the whole time I complained that he was entirely too passive, he never came up w/ his own ideas to heal and sometimes he dragged his heels before doing my ideas. AFter D-DAy #2, I realized why, and I realized my mistake. He's an addict, and I cannot control that, I cannot lead him on the path to recovery. It's always been all about HIM. Now I need to focus on me. Easier said than done, right? :-S

You were NOT dumb to talk to him. Now you KNOW you've done all you can. If you hadn't spoken up, you would have doubted yourself and wasted time hoping he'd change.


Me: BW, 41
Him: WH, 44
Married: 7 yrs (together 14)

D-Day #1 1/15/08 LTA: summer 2004 - Dec 2007
D-Day #2 2/23/09 a dozen (more or less) prostitutes during "R"


Posts: 250 | Registered: Jan 2008
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, I know I wasn't dumb to talk to him about it. I just thought it was dumb that I put my own issues (the codependency) out there for him to target and use to deflect the real issue.

I'm horribly upset of course, but I do have to admit that it feels GOOD for the first time in years, to stand up for myself and do what's right for ME for a change! Kinda proud of myself!


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
OurLifeBack
♀ Member
Member # 10620
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question: How am I supposed to act?

He's home - very remorseful and sad - kind of acting like EEore...


He wanted to 'talk.' Told me he thought we should consider an abstinence plan and that he needs to get a sponsor...

I'm just numb. Am I suppose to be angry - or sad or what? How does a proper recovering co behave in this situation?????

Thanks for all the support.


Me: BS 50 Him: WS 46 Married 15 years / Together 19
DDay: 4/28/06 & many more after that -- there are still a lot of blanks & I dread the telling
01/28/08 - renewed EA with OW. SA confirmed. Taking a time out.
06/13/08 - discovered EA with OW#2.

Posts: 1141 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Florida / Chicago - Whatever!
foray
♀ Member
Member # 17842
Default  Posted: 4:44 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There is no one "right" way to act or feel. However you are acting right now is the right way to act. Numb is just fine.


Me: BW, 41
Him: WH, 44
Married: 7 yrs (together 14)

D-Day #1 1/15/08 LTA: summer 2004 - Dec 2007
D-Day #2 2/23/09 a dozen (more or less) prostitutes during "R"


Posts: 250 | Registered: Jan 2008
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So how do I get help for MYSELF? Assuming I don't stay with him (if he doesn't snap out of it, admit he's SA and get help), I need help because I've dealt with it for so many years I feel crazy. And I'm codependent. I don't want to take those issues into any possible future ones.

Do I need to see a CSAT?


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
OurLifeBack
♀ Member
Member # 10620
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

S-Anon has been good for me so far, H2H. COSA is another group for Co's. They have on-line meetings, but the online meetings are not as good as the face-to-face ones.

Even if you choose not to stay with your husband, this will be good for you to help develop healthy boundaries and get unlearn your part of the dance.

My rSH's therapist, who is also going to do our couple's therapy, has suggested a group for me. I think I start it in May.

Wish I could start today!

Have you read "Mending a Shattered Heart?" Great book.

I think I will read it again!

Thanks, Foray. I took a nap. Now I think I might go shop. Jewelry sounds good.


Me: BS 50 Him: WS 46 Married 15 years / Together 19
DDay: 4/28/06 & many more after that -- there are still a lot of blanks & I dread the telling
01/28/08 - renewed EA with OW. SA confirmed. Taking a time out.
06/13/08 - discovered EA with OW#2.

Posts: 1141 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Florida / Chicago - Whatever!
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((OLB)))))


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hoping2heal - I did both COSA, and an IC. Between those two, and the wake up calls I got continuously here, I am in a MUCH better place right now, I can eat, I can sleep, and I don't get sick to my stomach every day, worrying about what he is doing now. I actually feel real happiness from time to time, and am looking forward to my future, instead of waking up in the morning, and wanting to go right back to sleep. It just took me a little bit of time, and a lot of intense soul searching and hard work, and a counselor who kept me on track every time I would wander off to talk about someone besides myself (which was pretty much always in the beginning).

I think I need to get a Happy Bunny poster, that says "Let's focus on me!"

OLB - Jewelry is ALWAYS good! I love the sparkly stuff! I know this is really hard for you right now, and you have all my support, but the bright spot that I can see in all this, is 1. He told you about what he had done--he didn't try to hide it, right? (He is a million steps ahead of my H). and 2. Sounds like he is a bit more serious about taking steps on his own to deal with this, with a sponsor (I have read a lot of accounts on how wonderful sponsors can be for an addict--because they are someone he can be accountable to 24/7, in a way he is not able to be with you), and abstinence is also a good thing, for someone serious about dealing with this. I don't know if he has said this stuff before, but to me, it sounds like a bit of a breakthrough for him?


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, March 31st (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, let's all remember...

~~~~~~~~~~

OLB

He's home - very remorseful and sad - kind of acting like EEore...

It's good that he is remorseful.

He wanted to 'talk.' Told me he thought we should consider an abstinence plan and that he needs to get a sponsor...

This is good and you should say, "An abstinence contract and sponsor are great ideas, YOU should do that. Talk to your CSAT and work out the abstinence contract and we'll finalize it."

(I can give you info on abstinence contracts for your reference if you need it, OLB)

I'm just numb. Am I suppose to be angry - or sad or what? How does a proper recovering co behave in this situation?????
You are supposed to feel whatever you feel. If you're numb, then that's what you're feeling. As to how to behave, I think you're doing fine. You do need to set boundaries and consequences though. If you're not seeing an IC you should. S-Anon is great but I think you need one on one help with boundaries.

~~~~~~~~~

hoping2heal
Honestly? I feel like you backed yourself into a corner and you might not be happy with that. My advice to you was that you read a couple of books and get some IC before you confronted him. I think that your confrontation was an attempt at control (so a codependent behavior) even if you don't think it was. (I don't mean this as a 2x4. I really don't, I'm trying to point this out to you gently. Imagine a very compassionate voice. OK?)

Well I confronted him. I sat him down this morning and told him I could no longer do this. He didn't ask for an explaination, just said, "I know". No anger, no remorse, no trying to talk his way out of it. Just resignation.

Did you tell him exactly what it was you couldn't "do" anymore? When someone does an intervention with an alcoholic they don't just leave them hanging. Help is offered. Specific changes are asked for ie setting boundaries and consequences are laid out. It might sound like, "If you continue drinking I will no longer live with you. I'm asking you to go to rehab and work a recovery program." For sex addiction it would be something like, "Based on research I have done for myself, I think you are a sex addict. I'm asking you to make an appointment to see a CSAT* and work a recovery program. I need these things to feel safe. If you continue [acting out] I will divorce you.** You have to decide what you want and I am going to focus on what I need to do for me, like going to counseling myself."

*And give him the url for iitap so he can find an therapist.

**I used your words, but divorce doesn't have to be the consequence if you're not ready for that. If you want to give him a chance to seek treatment you could use "in house separation" or "separation" or whatever.

I told him I'd made it perfectly clear that if I caught him looking at porn again I'd divorce him. He said, "I know". So I asked him why he did it. He said every couple of months he just needs an escape. I asked why he would CHOOSE that escape when it would mean he'd lose everything. He said he didn't know and that I need to do what I need to do.
This was shaming him. It might have made you feel better in the moment but it wasn't productive for what you want. And what you really, really want is him to not be a sex addict, but you can't have that. That boat has sailed, so what you want is for him to seek treatment and get sober. Shaming him won't get that. (I swear I'm not trying to bash you. I did this very thing! I've been there done that and wish I hadn't! I'm being honest with you and trying to share my experience. Doing what you did bought me 11 months of gaslighting and pure hell.)
Then I made the dumb mistake about telling him I can't fix him, I can't fix the marriage and that I can never be enough to fix things myself.
This isn't dumb! Poorly executed, perhaps, but not dumb! You're doing the best you can in a crappy situation and what you said is not untrue. It just might not be the right time to share that with him.
I tried explaining how this all has made me completely codependent and that my every action/word revolves around how HE might feel. True, but dumb, dumb, dumb.
Again, not dumb, just human. But instead of owning your issues it seems like you were blaming him for them? And you did open the door for...
He just turned it around on me. Look how much I give you, I'm home every night, I work hard so you can live a great life, blah, blah, blah.
This is a natural response on his part. I'm not defending him, but you did back him into a corner and he doesn't have any tools yet to deal with this stuff. He hasn't acknowledged his addiction. He hasn't gotten any counseling. He did the only thing he currently knows HOW to do. Plus, he may still be in the "I'm entitled to my acting out" mode and he won't get out of that without treatment.
I acknowledged all the good he does, but that does not make up for the fact that he is willing to lose EVERYTHING (and lie about it) for a two minute escape.
He didn't hear anything good you might have said, he didn't hear you acknowledge him, all he heard is you telling him how horrible he is which simply reinforces how he already feels about himself. I gave you the four core beliefs didn't I? Well, he already feels like he's awful and you're going to leave him because he's awful and terrible.
I was TRYING to get him to see (or admit) that he has a problem (without trying to lead him there and "control" things).
You were trying to lead him there and control things but you didn't give him a map. He's not a mind reader and his thinking is soooo distorted by his addiction he's not going to get anything even remotely subtle.
No dice. He either really does NOT see that there is a problem, or that problem is SOOOOOO huge to him that he can't even face it even at the risk of losing everything.
It may be a little of both.

You have to do what is right for you and if you think that calling a lawyer and getting a divorce is the only option for you, then you need to do that. If it's not and you want to try again and give him a chance to seek treatment, you can do that too. It's not like you can't take some things back if you want to. You're entitled to missteps in the beginning. You will obviously want to work on boundaries and consequences and make sure you're not just making threats as you move forward but it can be fixed. My situation was way more messed up and we figured it out.

Read the books I recommended.

{{{hugs}}}
7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 10:33 PM, March 31st (Tuesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs, I DO hear you and agree. It's just so hard to put it to actual life, kwim?

I've told him many, many, many times that I think he's an awesome guy but has some serious issues from his childhood and that I think he's a sex addict (again, that was brought up and explained to us in MC) and that he needs help. How many times does he get to slip up and you say..."Ok, NOW you need help". He's NOT listening. He's so far in his self-delusions and rationalizations that he truly thinks it's NORMAL. I saw on the keylogger this morning that last night he was googling "what percentage of men masterbate" (answer is 95%, duh) and "what percentage of men look at porn" (and of course all those sites talked about how normal and harmless it is. So now I'm just waiting for him to show me allllllll the evidence about how it's normal, all guys do it, blah, blah, blah.

I did see on the keylogger that he went through the history and clicked on my SI hit (which as far as I know he's never looked at before) and read your PM to me with resources & books to help me deal with SA.

You're right -- I've painted myself in a corner and I just don't know what else to do. Just like I can't stay with an alcoholic or a wife beater who refuses to get help, I can't stay with a SA who doesn't see there's a problem and I will continue to get hurt and lied to over and over again if I stay.

I don't WANT to leave. And yes, I AM using the D card in the hopes of manipulating the situation. Yesterday morning I told him I couldn't stay in a M with someone who will continue to lie and sneak around behind my back, even at the risk of losing his entire family. He obviously didn't believe that I'm actually going to do something because last night he got a phone call from our HOA asking details about the screen room we've been planning to put in. And he gave all details about the color, what company we are going to use, etc. He got off the phone and I said, "You need to put a halt to the pool thing". He just said I know, I know, I know. I don't think he GETS it. I think he thinks I'm bluffing.

I'm not. I don't WANT to D, but I CANNOT stay with someone who just does not see a problem and thinks I'm just being a goody-two-shoes. I don't want to, but I will be making an appointment with an attorney to find out my rights. And yes, I AM hoping that maybe me contacting an attorney will make him realize I'm serious, but am prepared to move ahead if he still has his head in the sand. Just like during his PA/EA, he was not able to hit rock bottom and get out of the fog until he realized I was not going to be there for him anymore. And that didn't happen until *I* gave up on trying to fix him and just let him hang himself.

ETA: I WILL be reading the books and finding an IC for myself, but need to contact an attorney first to find out what the financial situation will look like if we S/D. Just thinking about the cost of two households, daycare for 4 kids, DS2's speech therapy (EXPENSIVE), etc scares the hell out of me. I need to find out how much I'd get in child support and/or alimony so I can see how bad it will be before I go adding more expenses.

[This message edited by hoping2heal at 6:27 AM, April 1st (Wednesday)]


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

birdwatch,

Thanks for the wonderful overview of sex addiction that you posted a few pages back. I have printed it off. I left it for SAh to read and said, "I am laying off you about the SA, just as I said. I'm just leaving this here for you to read, not as a way to open your eyes or anything, but just something that really helped me separate you from the addiction. I want you to see what I have to remember when I start in on my victimhood mantra." Then I left it on the table for him. It's been there three days now and it looks like he hasn't opened it yet.

I really have left him alone, aside from the odd conversation. I noted that he started masturbating right after the most important woman in his life at that time, his grandmother, died. He sees that as a normal puberty action and not related at all. I just let it drop at that point, realizing I'm doing the controlling thing again, trying to use pyschobabble to have him understand his SA. I gave myself a Nerf 2X4 at that point. A real 2X4 would have made the headache I had worse. :)

It seems to me that SAh has given up. I think he is still white knuckling it. As a result, he is quiet, always tired and just existing.

I continue to work the 12 steps and read and journal. I can't believe my journaling. It's copious. I was never one for writing so much, but my IC has been excellent. I just finished Step 1. It's taken me a long time to really, really admit my powerlessness over myself and my SA. I gave lip service to it, but did not really embrace it. I think I finally have. On to Step 2.

7 yrs.,

Your response to H2H was wonderful. It solidified so much in my mind and also woke me up to some of my recycling into the codependent mode. It has taken me almost 3 years to recognize some of this. I was really hard on myself for the length of time, but then I gave myself a break. I have been in this mode for over 30 years. I cannot expect myself to scoot out of it in a short period of time.

I mean, really, this is a long process and a life-changing one at that. This morning I was paying bills and got discouraged at my state of finances. But then I gave myself another 2X4 and realized there is no hurry to change my life circumstances. As long as I am working at it, and I am, I will be okay. I am becoming more fiscally responsible so that if and when I leave I will be in a much better financial state. That's all I can do right now.

Anyway, guys, I love you all. Thanks for your posts. They are essential to me at this point.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopin2heal:

I've been where you are. And I kept hearing I needed boundaries, I needed to detach, I needed to work on me.

Well, how the hell do I detach - with love? and not divorce....how do I do that?

I DO set boundaries, he just ignores them! How come he ignores them, what am I supposed to do besides re-state the boundary?

Work on me? Hell, I've been trying to, but HE keeps undermining my work!

Well, I didn't see it at the time, but I do now. And the biggest help for me in opening my eyes were the lovely members of both SI (this thread in particular) and my S-Anon group.

I learned to do 2 things that were key to preserving what little is left of my sanity.

I learned, on an emotional level somehow, that I had no control over my H's addiction. I ALWAYS knew this on a cognitive level, but emotionally, I hadn't let go of the want to convince him to control it, the want to make it better, the want for him to want to fix it. Somehow, I learned to take care of what I needed.

There is a truism you'll see throughout this thread, and in other SA literature, but I'm not sure exactly where at this point, but it goes something like this:

It takes 2 healthy people to have a healthy M. Your SA H is not healthy. He is incapable of a healthy M.

As long as he is not admitting SA, in recovery, seekeing treatment and sober, THERE IS NO POSSIBILITY FOR YOU TO HAVE A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP.

So what do you do? You go through the struggle of emotionally and cognitively detaching. Somehow for me, that happened simultaneously with self-care. See, I couldn't be taking care of my own emotional wellfare and sabatoging it by overinvesting in him at the same time. That is not self care. How did get there.

Acceptance of his addiction. He has it. Period. Nothing I do, say, want, wish will make him better until he wants to make him better. Being overinvested in this M until he got to that point was on me, I had to choose to take care of myself or not. He may never get to full recovery. I know I can't stay with him if he ceases to pursue recovery in earnest. I want to stay with him, but somehow, in learning to take care of myself, I let go of the outcome of the M. I will survive, and be whole, and be well. Our M might not make it. But just like our M cannot be healthy if HE is not healthy, neither can it be if I am not. So I've learned to invest in me first.

Doing this somehow naturally created a loving detachment, that is very difficult to describe. The easiest thing to say is I have taken responsibility of me, both as an individual, and as 1/2 of this M. She is my job first. Not in a selfish way, but in a responsible way.

For me, detaching naturally leads to making boundaries that are enforceable rather than attempts at control, detaching seemed to be a product of self-care, detaching seemed to go hand in hand woth letting go of the outcome and making those boundaries something that I not only was willing to enforce, but that I neded to enforce as part of my self-care and responsibility to myself. It all seemed to go together.

So the biggest suggestion I have for you at this point is to look inward. What do you need to do for you to be safe, not what does H needto do, YOU. Do you accept his SA and know, really know, you have NO CONTROL OVER IT? Do you accept the responsibility you have to keep yourself emotionally well, both for your own sake and for the health of your M? Do you understand boundaries as a personal issue and not a control him issue?

Look inside hun. Whether you stay with him or not almost isn't the issue. How you treat yourself is. Take control of what you actually have control of - YOU. And life will get more manageable for you.

Peace.

-JW


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:16 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

birdwatch and 7years have summed up beautifully both the thought processes of the addict ("if people really knew about me, they wouldn't love me") and the co-dependent issues of the spouse.
It is confusing at first, but it gets clearer, I promise. I'm roughly two years out and it's just now that we're putting our marriage back together. To date, we've been working on ourselves -- he with an SA counsellor and 12-step meetings and me with IC and lots of reading. It has given both of us the chance to learn new tools for living. Prior to that, his coping tool was acting out. NOT because he didn't love me or wanted out of the marriage, but because it was all he knew. It started for him as a teen with masturbation. His family life would feel stressful and he learned early that MB could "remove" him from the stress, at least temporarily. Of course, it escalated from there.
My coping strategies have always been to be ultra-capable, deluding myself into thinking that if I'm handling everything, nothing can be happening that I can't control. Ummmm...doesn't work like that.
So before we could even think about whether or not our marriage could survive (let's be honest, marriage is tough enough without all these wonky behaviours/thought patterns), we needed a new "roadmap" as someone put it. Now we're in MC and our counsellor is walking us through how to have a conversation (no kidding!) in which we actually listen to each other's feelings without trying to manage each other's feelings.
It was put to the test the other night when my husband, after talking with his IC, told me that he'd "slipped" on the weekend while I was away. I could feel that familiar knot in my stomach, but nothing like it used to be because I trust that I can handle whatever happens and keep myself okay. He had looked at a video he knows he shouldn't have and needed me to know that.
Instead of the old recriminations I would have used in the early days of finding out about his SA (how could you do that? What about me? Don't we matter to you? etc etc.), I accepted that he did what he did, he told me about it as soon as it made sense to tell me, and he's working with his IC to determine why he slipped (I was away and he was left with the three kids and his back went out...lots of stress and anger at me for not being there). The old me would have felt guilty for not being there when he needed me. I would have tried to make it "better" by overdoing my job for the next few days. Instead, I've learned that was his stuff to take responsibility for and left it at that. The behaviour wasn't a deal-breaker for me at all. And I'm proud of the way he handled it. What's more, he's clear-headed enough to note that watching the video (some 30-second "world's biggest ejaculation" thing) didn't change anything but to make him feel guilty and embarrassed.
So to those still struggling with co-dependency and understanding addiction, it will come. And it will need addressing by you whether you stay or go. You've learned a "dance" with your addict spouses, whether knowingly or not. And it's not a healthy one. You'll need to learn new steps in order to have a healthier marriage with your spouse or with someone else. Or even to have healthier friendships and be better parents (I confess my co-dependent behaviour sometimes spills into my parenting -- I micro-manage my kids when I'm stressed).

7years,
I'm sorry you're struggling with getting pregnant. I'm thinking of you!


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
OurLifeBack
♀ Member
Member # 10620
Default  Posted: 9:45 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heavy sigh.

Yesterday was a crappy day...started off with waking to no text, no email...and 'knowing' something was not right.

It ended with me getting an email on my blackberry from facebook - rSH's sister suggested I befriend OW#2. I thought, could someone just not shoot me?

I just went to sleep. Today has got to be a better day.

7 - thank you so much for your response. Yes, being remorseful is good - I just become so weary of the sad little boy. I would love some information on abstinence contracts - just to educate myself. He has an appointment with his CSAT on Friday, so hope they can work that out. I have thought this was needed for some time, but I am trying very hard not to manage HIS recovery. What a battle.

I agree I need some help with boundaries. My hope had been that rSH would work with his CSAT to determine what his behaviors were - that whole inner circle stuff - and then I would go from there.

My biggest problem with setting my boundaries right now is that I really don't think looking at porn is that bad - compared to affairs and massage parlors or even flirting and especially lying! I do recognize that continuing the behavior could lead to other acting out activity AND the fact that he can't control it is not good, but in the great scheme of things...you know?

And NA, you are right, he did tell me, but he leaves such big red flags, I KNEW. About the jewelry, I told him in one of my last tirades that I was tired of buying my own jewelry - as he would misbehave and I would go buy something. And we're not talking costume here...

Things are looking up - the sun just came out! I choose today to look at the bright side - tomorrow is OVER, he came up with getting a sponsor and an abstinence contract!

I still might go shopping....


Me: BS 50 Him: WS 46 Married 15 years / Together 19
DDay: 4/28/06 & many more after that -- there are still a lot of blanks & I dread the telling
01/28/08 - renewed EA with OW. SA confirmed. Taking a time out.
06/13/08 - discovered EA with OW#2.

Posts: 1141 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Florida / Chicago - Whatever!
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 9:53 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks guys. I AM doing what I know is best for me. Sure, I could EASILY stay in this M. I have a great life. SAHM, which makes me available to my kids and whatever they need and I LOVE it. I'm a SAHM because the thought of putting my kids in daycare literally makes me sick to my stomach. (Not that there's anything wrong with daycare, just see the benefit of having a mom at home). And FWH & I DO get along very, very well. We share lots of laughs and enjoy being together.

So yes, I could just once again, forgive him and try to put it past us. But if I'm confident that there will be more hurt coming due to his problems, I just CAN'T do that to myself anymore. I've already compromised way too many of my morals and beliefs in this marriage and I just can't do it anymore.

One thing his leaving me in 1998 did was show me that I AM ok on my own. I'm strong. And no matter what I do or how long I try, I CANNOT fix him or our M. I know that. I've gotten in the habit of trying to control every aspect and "fix" things between us, but I finally realize there is no hope. I CANNOT fix it. It's HIS issue.

So don't get me wrong -- even though I say I hope my leaving will snap him out of it and scare him enough to get the help he needs, that is true, but my actions are REALLY what is healthiest for me.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OLB,

I get your point that you don't think looking at porn is bad...however, I don't think a glass of wine is bad. Unless I know -- as in the case of an alcoholic -- where it will lead. My mom, who was sober for 25 years, simply refused to drink. She had been sober for so long that I asked her if she thought she could join the rest of us in a bottle of wine over dinner. She simply responded that perhaps she could...but she didn't want to take the chance that she couldn't. It was safer to just say no. It's the same with sex addicts. And keep in mind, too, that there are studies noting that looking at porn really does change the chemistry of our brains. A great article in Men's Health magazine (wish I could find a URL) opened my eyes to this fact...and that it allows ALL men (particuarly men) to detach from the sex act, which -- as we all know -- leads to intimacy issues.
In any case, I'm sorry you're having a tough time these days.

And H2H, too. It's an awful situation to be in. I think we're all just suggesting you give yourself time to act...not just react.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 1:34 PM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ack! I have missed a whole lot! I'm sorry. I had the stomach flu and was just busy over the w/e.

I kept dreaming about my SAH in different awful situations. I dreamt that when he was out of town that he had a ONS, that he was having an EA on his work phone, etc. I know he's not doing any of this stuff. I do know it in my head. I have not felt anything in my gut and I usually know. Just sometimes there is a little bit of truth in my dreams. So I got worried and sad. I did talk to him about stuff and I now know that he is not doing those things and I have quit dreaming about them.

For quite awhile I was trying to figure out if I was a co-addict or codependent or what. Given the descriptions that I found, I couldn't really figure it out. I finally started reading MaSH and I definitely am. I was avoiding reading it because I thought I knew enough and that I wasn't even sure if I was, but I totally am. This definition from Melody Beattie of "Codependent No More" said this: A codependent person is one who has let another person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior." I don't know if I am obsessed with controlling the behavior, but I certainly have tried in the past.

I have a lot to read to catch up.

My SAH's sponsor gave him the name of an IC that he used so hopefully soon, he will call him so he can get back into it. I just hope that his past IC didn't do any harm!


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, April 1st (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for you "experts"....yes, FWH has had issues with porn, escalating to the point of joining married dating websites, so he's a SA.

But he also has other "obsessive" tendencies...gets too involved with gaming (not gambling), buying/selling ebay stuff, etc. I've always thought he used that stuff also as a coping skill. Whereas his brother turned to drugs & alcohol, FWH has issues with tamer stuff like I mentioned above.

I think it's all related...the porn, the obsessive online gaming, etc..

Will seeing a CSAT delve into all these areas or are they just going to concentrate on why he uses porn?


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
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