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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts II
3 is a crowd
♀ Member
Member # 23065
Default  Posted: 11:49 AM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question
FWH/rSA and I had MC today. We talked about the fact that 6 mos - 12 mos in the future there is a good chance that FWH will relapse. Our homework assignment is to discuss and journal what we will do to prevent this from happening and what we will do if it does happen.
Up until this point in our R I have felt like if he were to have another A I would not tolerate it and I would D. Now I am very confused....If relapse is part of the recovery for most addicts, then isn't that saying that it is O.K. becuase that is part of the recovery process? If I set the boundary that if he has a relapses I will D dosn't that put him in a postition to possibly lie? I have dedicated myself to help him and support him to overcome this addiction. He is sincere, has been completely honest and I am seeing a positive change. I don't want to abandon him if this can be part of the recovery process, but at the same time I don't want him to feel like he has a "green light" to relapse.
Those of you who have been through this process before PLEASE HELP ME. I need your help and advice.
Thank-you 3


Me BS 53
Him FWS 51
Married 14 yrs
D-days were numerous
Final D-day with full confession 01/28/09

Posts: 189 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Out West
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear hope2heal,

I don't blame you for feeling frustrated - just reading your post make me want to stump on the floor.

Dr. Stefanie Carnes defined SA as "an unhealthy relationship to any sexual experience (thoughts, fantasies, actaivities, etc) that an individual continues to engage in despite adverse consequences....". The specific activity is not as important as the fact that the person is unable to cease the activity despite negative consequences. Further, like other types of addiction, SA has a high probability of escalating their activities. Finally, there are always variations among addicts. For example, a person who drinks excessively every day to the point of losing his/her job, is as much an alcoholic as a person who "binge drinks" only once a week and becomes violence when he/she does.

I cannot overstate the importance of your educating yourself by reading literature from credible sources. Many of your questions will be answered.

However, as I mentioned previously, at this point, it does not matter if your husband is or is not a SA. He will be diagnosed by the CSAT soon enough. THE POINT IS WATCHING PORN AND BROWSING DATING SITES ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE TO YOU, WHETHER OR NOT HE IS DIAGNOSED AS A SA. IN THE CONTEXT OF YOUR MARRIAGE, HE SHOULD RESPECT YOUR WISHES.

There is nothing you can do to make him change his mind. Let go of controlling him. You have already made an appointment with a CSAT. Until then, focus on you and educate yourself.

Hang in there.

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear 3 is a crowd:

I am not sure why your MC said there is a "good chance" that your husband will relapse. Is that prediction based on the MC's observation of an unsatisfactory recovery by your husband? Is your MC a CSAT or someone with experience with addiction?

There is always a chance of relapses whenever an addiction is involved. All addicts must receive therapy, build a healthy life style, and develop coping strategies when the desire to act out surfaces.

In addition, there are different types of relapses. Reading a Playboy and paying for a prostitute are very different things.

I suspect your MC may be trying to help both of you to set healthy boundaries and develop consequences for breach. The process will provide an opportunity for honest communications between you and your husband by allowing the two of you to discuss your respective fears and needs and to jointly develop a practical plan that satisfies both of you.

Also, there are different types/levels of boundaries (7yrsbetrayed knows a lot more about that). For example, if your husband reads a Playboy, the consequence may be to trigger an abstinence period, but not throw him out of the house (unless that's what you want). You are the one who decides.

It is a long and bumpy road, but it sounds like you and your husband are in recovery. Take care. You are doing just fine!

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can't find a store that carries "Mending a Shattered Heart". The only place I've found is Amazon, but I don't want to wait a week to get it (or pay overnight shipping).

Does anyone know of a store where it can be found?


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
OurLifeBack
♀ Member
Member # 10620
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pm for you H2h!!!
I have one!!!

[This message edited by OurLifeBack at 1:07 PM, April 3rd (Friday)]


Me: BS 50 Him: WS 46 Married 15 years / Together 19
DDay: 4/28/06 & many more after that -- there are still a lot of blanks & I dread the telling
01/28/08 - renewed EA with OW. SA confirmed. Taking a time out.
06/13/08 - discovered EA with OW#2.

Posts: 1141 | Registered: May 2006 | From: Florida / Chicago - Whatever!
foray
♀ Member
Member # 17842
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyone have little kids? My oldest is 6. I knew she was worried about the tension between me and SAH, so I told her (not wanting to make Daddy a bad guy) DAddy and I had a disagreement and we are working very hard to get past it, and we are talking to people (therapists) and going to meetings to work on this. Today she is angry that he won't be home tonight (he has a meeting) so she yelled at me "why do you have to argue with him? You're the one who's the problem!!" I nearly started crying! Now what? Just let it go, I suppose. She's 6, she doesn't mean it the way I take it.


Me: BW, 41
Him: WH, 44
Married: 7 yrs (together 14)

D-Day #1 1/15/08 LTA: summer 2004 - Dec 2007
D-Day #2 2/23/09 a dozen (more or less) prostitutes during "R"


Posts: 250 | Registered: Jan 2008
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Foray- I have four kids, ages 6, 4, and 2yo twins.

FWH & I actually get along well, so there hasn't been any arguements (that the kids have seen), but I can tell they've picked up the stress. All four of them have been fussy, fighting with each other (which is unusual), and clingy to me.

I'm trying SO HARD not to have this affect them. Still not sure whether or not we are going to be able to R or not, so I just have to take it day by day.

I can tell you it's one of the hardest things I've done to act happy and cheerful for the kids and find activities for them when all I want to do is crawl in my bed and stay there.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To those with children,

FYI - There is an entire chapter in Stefanie Carnes' book Mending a Shattered Heart called "What Should I Tell My Kids".

hope2heal - I got all my books from Amazon.com. Sorry. Hope others can help you.

You are all very brave. I will likely not have a change to log on over the weekend, but you will all be in my thoughts.

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have three kids -- ages 10, 8 and just turned 6. My eldest was 8 when this started (the others 6 and 4). I had grown up in a family with alcoholism and always had the sense that something was "wrong" even though everyone put on a happy face. As a result, I learned to distrust my own instincts and believe what everyone told me. I didn't want that for my kids so I did tell them honestly that mommy and daddy were having some problems. That marriage was hard (I used the example of how hard it is to get along with brothers and sisters as an example) but that we both were working hard on our problems. I reassured them that this had nothing to do with them, that it was "adult" problems and nothing they needed to know about and that, right now, we're working hard to stay married.
It seemed to work. Their stress level went down and they were able to allow me my feelings without taking responsibility for them.
I think kids are like mood barometers. They do pick up on our stress and anxiety and when they're told -- against all their instincts -- that everything's fine, it simply compounds the stress and confusion. It doesn't hurt kids to know that adults have problems sometimes....and that their job is to just keep on being kids and let the adults handle the adult stuff.

My 2˘...

EO


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NaiveAgain
I ENROLLED IN COLLEGE YESTERDAY!

CONGRATULATIONS!!! GOOD FOR YOU!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hoping2heal

He's never met a stranger for sex or had ONSs. He doesn't compusively MB.

That you know of. I'm not saying he has, or trying to scare you. The point is that YOU have no idea and he can use that. You know, the expression, he "doth protest too much." My rSA denied, denied, denied. Lied, lied, lied. He said "I'm not a sex addict" all the while acting out in ways I had no knowledge of at the time. He can't be honest with himself, of course he's not going to be honest with you. And you're right those questions take it to the extreme and not every SA goes that extreme! This screening test is much more reasonable. http://www.sexhelp.com/sast.cfm

They also have one specifically for internet acting out but the page is down. Grrr! I was able to find the cached site on Google on then Googled around to find the scoring scale.

Here it is: ( I think you should answer these based on YOUR knowledge of his internet use, you probably have a pretty good idea of what's what. Of course this would just be for your peace of mind.)

Welcome to the Internet Sex Screening Test (ISST). This inventory asks questions about online and offline sexual behavior. Please respond "Yes" to the items which apply to your behavior and "No" to the items which do not apply.

1. I have some sexual sites bookmarked.
2. I spend more than 5 hours per week using my computer for sexual pursuits.
3. I have joined sexual sites to gain access to online sexual material.
4. I have purchased sexual products online.
5. I have searched for sexual material through an Internet search tool.
6. I have spent more money for online sexual material than I planned.
7. Internet sex has sometimes interfered with certain aspects of my life.
8. I have participated in sexually related chats.
9. I have a sexualized username or nickname that I use on the Internet.
10. I have masturbated while on the Internet.
11. I have accessed sexual sites from other computers besides my home.
12. No one knows I use my computer for sexual purposes.
13. I have tried to hide what is on my computer or monitor so others cannot see it.
14. I have stayed up after midnight to access sexual material online.
15. I use the Internet to experiment with different aspects of sexuality (e.g., bondage, homosexuality, anal sex, etc.)
16. I have my own website which contains some sexual material.
17. I have made promises to myself to stop using the Internet for sexual purposes.
18. I sometimes use cybersex as a reward for accomplishing something (e.g., finish a project, stressful day, etc.)
19. When I am unable to access sexual information online, I feel anxious, angry, or disappointed.
20. I have increased the risks I take online (give out name and phone number, meet people offline, etc.)
21. I have punished myself when I use the Internet for sexual purposes (e.g., time-out from computer, cancel Internet subscription, etc.)
22. I have met face to face with someone I met online for romantic purposes.
23. I use sexual humor and innuendo with others while online.
24. I have run across illegal sexual material while on the Internet.
25. I believe I am an Internet sex addict.
General Questions about Sex Addiction
26. I repeatedly attempt to stop certain sexual behaviors and fail.
27. I have continued my sexual behavior despite it having caused me problems.
28. Before my sexual behavior I want it but afterwards I regret it.
29. I have lied often to conceal my sexual behavior.
30. I believe I am a sex addict.
31. I worry about people finding out about my sexual activities.
32. I have made efforts to quit a type of sexual activity and failed.
33. I hide some of my sexual behavior from others.
34. When I have sex, I feel depressed afterwards.

Scoring:
1 to 8 = You may or may not have a problem with your sexual behavior on the Internet. You are in a low risk group, but if the Internet is causing problems in your life, seek a professional who can conduct further assessment.

9 to 18 = You are “at-risk” for the your sexual behavior to interfere with significant areas of your life. If you are concerned about your sexual behavior online, and you have noticed consequences as a result of your online behavior, it is suggested that you seek a professional who can further assess and help you with your concerns.

19 + = You are at highest risk for your behavior to interfere and jeopardize important areas of your life (social, occupational, educational, etc.). It is suggested that you discuss your online sexual behaviors with a professional who can further assess and assist you.

The tests on http://www.sexhelp.com are much more moderate as you can see. I would only ask him look at those. And keep in mind you can ask him to take these but unless it's his idea he's probably going to lie because he doesn't want to face his addiction.

If the therapist suggests therapy once a week, do I MAKE him stick with that or I walk? Or do I settle (once again) for something I don't think is right?

You can't MAKE him do anything. You can REQUEST that he go once a week (if the counselor recommends it) and you can set that as a boundary for which you need to set a consequence. You can certainly set the consequence as leaving him if that's what you want to do. You should never settle if that is really what you think you'd be doing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1F1B
Hi!

Secular Humanism being a belief system in and of itself.

Well, it's not so much a "belief system" as it is a "world view" or "philosophy" and frankly I just use it as a less scary way to say atheist sometimes. I don't mind the "label" but I wouldn't want anyone to think it's a religion. That's our big thing, atheism is not a religion or a belief system in the context of religion and neither is Secular Humanism. It is a belief, in that we believe there is no deity. My rSA and I embrace humanism because we are just trying to be the best people we can be and make the world a better place, we just do it without religion. We believe in humanity, and that the world can be better if we make it so, not a deity. So, I'm not arguing with you, just sharing my understanding of it. You can view Secular Humanism as a belief system if that works for you though. Just sharing my personal thoughts on it. Either way, it's all good.
My SAh said he could never go to a female counselor (another one of his excuses for not dealing with his SA)

Well, sadly, he has a point. It is better for male SA to see a male CSAT (preferably one who is a rSA himself) because the SA can be completely open and honest. SAs are all about seeking affirmation of their masculinity from women so a male SA seeing a female CSAT could have serious issues opening up and being honest. He wouldn't want a woman (ANY woman, I don't care how old she is or her level of attractiveness) thinking less of him. That said, if a female CSAT is the only option I think a SA who truly wants recovery will suck it up and do his best to make it work.
BTW, recoverynation.com is GREAT! I started there but could not keep it up. SAh also reads there and finds it bang-on and very informative. Now if only he would work the program there. Even a personal coach there is not as expensive as IC. Oh well, it's his call.

That does sound like an excellent option for him but he's just not embracing recovery. I'm so sorry 1F1B. But I'm happy for you because you are taking care of yourself and you are most definitely moving FORWARD. That is awesome!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3 is a crowd

FWH/rSA and I had MC today. We talked about the fact that 6 mos - 12 mos in the future there is a good chance that FWH will relapse.

Um, wow. Ok. Is the MC a CSAT? Is your rSA seeing a CSAT?
Our homework assignment is to discuss and journal what we will do to prevent this from happening and what we will do if it does happen.

I can see the value in this but only IF:
1. your rSA is seeing a CSAT and has achieved sobriety already. (I would also say he needs to be a minimum of 90 days sober)
2. your rSA has done his inventory and identified his "boundary behaviors" and "bottom line behaviors" (and shared his "bottom line behaviors" with you.
3. you are seeing an IC who has helped you set a clear set of boundaries and consequences based on your rSA's "bottom line behaviors."

Up until this point in our R I have felt like if he were to have another A I would not tolerate it and I would D.

This is a perfectly reasonable boundary and consequence, in fact it's one of mine. Any physical/sexual contact with anyone other than me and I will divorce him. Period.
Now I am very confused....If relapse is part of the recovery for most addicts, then isn't that saying that it is O.K. becuase that is part of the recovery process?
I understand your confusion. This was not the best way for this to be presented to you. Also, I'm guessing you and your rSA haven't entered into a 90 day abstinence contract. If you had, you would understand that he needs a full 90 days (minimum) of complete sexual abstinence (no sex with himself {masturbation} and no sex with you) in order to reset the chemicals in his brain. I posted a about this recently in this thread go back a few pages and look for it. Anyway, he has to achieve complete sobriety and he will go through physical withdrawal and during that time, yes is is very common for a SA to relapse... I wouldn't say it's common for them to jump right back to an A, more likely he'd masturbate and/or look at porn and masturbate. "Slips" as they are most commonly called are common. Full relapse does happen. But there are levels to this and you and your SA need to determine what each behavior means to each of you. That is why is it VITAL that he complete his inventory and define his "boundary behaviors" and his "bottom line behaviors." If he breaks a boundary behavior it's an indicator that he's likely to break his sobriety and he should work his program to deal with it. If he breaks a bottom line behavior he's over the edge and heading for a relapse and DEFINITELY needs to work his program. The difference is this, breaking a "boundary behavior" does not result in him resetting his sobriety (ie starting over at zero and losing his chip), breaking a "bottom line behavior" does.

If I set the boundary that if he has a relapses I will D dosn't that put him in a postition to possibly lie?
I suppose it could but if he is truly sober he probably won't lie. But more importantly it shows that you don't have solid boundaries and consequences in place. If divorce is your only consequence you're not leaving either of you much room to work the program.
I have dedicated myself to help him and support him to overcome this addiction. He is sincere, has been completely honest and I am seeing a positive change. I don't want to abandon him if this can be part of the recovery process, but at the same time I don't want him to feel like he has a "green light" to relapse.
And he won't think that if he's seeing a CSAT and if he's set his own boundaries and consequences for HIMSELF. He has to do that. He has to set his "boundary" and "bottom line" behaviors for himself and he has to set consequences on himself that he will suffer in addition to suffering yours.

Here is a copy and paste of my answer about MY boundaries and consequences:
First and foremost the SA should have his own boundaries and consequences. My rSA (recovering SA) has his own set of boundaries / behaviors / consequences and that is vital. The SA should be working a program and have two lists; "boundary behaviors*" and "bottom line behaviors**" and have self imposed consequences for violating those. (Although I just discussed this with my rSA and he said that if an SA is only going to SA or SAA he may only have a "bottom line" list. I personally think my rSA's approach is much better.)

*Boundary Behaviors: These are behaviors that the SA identifies as things that could lead him to breaking his sobriety or things that are generally unhealthy based on his core issues. For example some of my rSA's boundary behaviors are:
~Flipping through the program guide on cable he sees "VH1's 50 Hottest Celebrities" and flips to that channel to take a look.

~Seeing an attractive woman in the grocery store and going out of his way to get another or better look at her.

~Not changing the channel when something inappropriate comes on or not looking away.

So, if he does any of those things he's put on his list he's broken a boundary behavior and will set a consequence on himself, usually a chore he despises like cleaning the toilet. Again, this is HIS stuff. I stay out of it completely. The only exception would be if I were to see him do something and it upset me, I would talk to him about it and share how it made me FEEL. Period. This is not mine to put consequences on. This is HIS front line defense. Again, those are HIS "boundary behaviors."

**Bottom Line Behaviors are those which he would be required to reset his sobriety for. Examples are: looking at porn, masturbating, looking at online personal ads or visiting inappropriate websites like AFF, having sex with anyone other than me. His "bottom line behaviors."

Those are the two sets of behaviors that the SA needs to identify FOR HIMSELF and there is a difference.

My boundaries and consequences are all based on his BOTTOM LINE BEHAVIORS (NOT boundary behaviors) and there are levels of severity.

My Level 1 Boundary: He looks at porn or masturbates.
My initial consequence: I ask that we do another 90 day abstinence contract and I ask him to show me that he is recommitted to working his program by going to additional counseling and more group meetings and that we go to more marriage counseling.
My secondary consequence: If he refuses to respect my boundaries and refuses to do the things I've asked, I will separate from him for 90 days to give him time to decide what he really wants. (I'll be the one to leave and take our daughter with me.) If he still cannot respect me and do what I've asked, I will file for divorce.

My Level 2 Boundary: He looks at online personal ads or places an ad but has not progressed to meeting anyone, he's just looked.
My initial consequence: We separate and I will ask HIM to move out. I will ask that he show that he is recommitted to his recovery by going to counseling more often and attending more groups. I will consider letting him come home when he's been SOBER for 6 months.
My secondary consequence: If he doesn't get sober or if he will not do what I've asked and respect my boundaries, I will file for divorce. (This includes if he refuses to respect my boundary that he has to be the one to leave for the separation.)

My Level 3 Boundary:
If he has any kind of sexual physical contact whatsoever with another person.
My consequence: DIVORCE. Period. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200. There are no second chances on this one. He fucks around again and that is it, I'm done. I don't care which one of us moves out but one of us will and that's it. Final.

For levels 1 and 2 there is an additional note, if he tells me about it the consequences stand as written, if he does not tell me and I find out on my own there will be an additional consequence for lying. I don't have that one set in concrete right now but I'm sure I will be able to find something that is appropriate. For Level 3, I have no illusions about that one, if I find out it will be on my own, he will never confess that to me and even if he does confess, that does not change the consequence. He screws around again and I'm gone. Period.

I hope that is helpful. What you have to do is figure out what works for YOU and your relationship. These are what work for me and yours may look very different.

My situation may be different because my rSA is recovering, and he's in treatment. So he's got his boundary and bottom line behaviors figured out most importantly my rSA is SOBER so his thinking is not distorted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

foray
Find a good family therapist who deals with families with addiction. Also, "MaSH" does have a chapter on what to tell kids but I think you need more than that. Your daughter definitely does. She's really hurting.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think I got to everyone!
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
momofthree2007
♀ Member
Member # 14766
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just moved to Hawaii 2 weeks ago.

For those of you who remember me, things have been going great lately. It's been over a month and my H has been clean since his last slip up.

He's been consistenly attending the SA meetings and we found a good church to go to which has helped immensely.

I tried looking into MC but he's used up all his Army leave time for now so it'll be difficult to schedule time for that at the moment.

I've set some boundaries I can follow through with so for now, I'm playing it by ear.

I know what some of you are thinking, that it's vital to get MC and/or IC and while that's ideal, life tends to get in the way and he doesn't have a job where he can just call in sick when he doesn't feel like going to work.

For now, the SA meetings are better than no help. He told me the group that he's in started off small and it's gradually growing since he joined in.

Thanks again for the support.


H - XWH (32) RSA
D-Day 1, OW1: 3/20/07
D-Day 2. OW2: 6/24/07
Divorced, 08/23/2012
Married 7 years, together 9
One day fling each; online As turned physical physical

Posts: 491 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Florida
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 7:40 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

momofthree2007That's great! Any progress is progress. Going to SA is GOOD, very good. Would he benefit even more from seeing a CSAT? Would you benefit even more seeing an IC? Sure, but you're doing what is possible for your family right now.

Welcome back to the thread!
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 8:19 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Crap! I told you all about the dreams I was having last w/e. One was that he was talking to someone on his work phone (only in my dream it was a new total EA). I also said that sometimes my dreams can in part be true.

Well, just out of curiousity, I looked at his work phone. He had a lot of calls that I knew were work related so I didn't really check too hard. But he had one text message that only said "Good". I did reverse look up and it said it was in Canada. He does work with people in Canada so no biggie. With only "Good" it could be work related like something was working good. lol

So I looked in received calls and there is another # with the same area code so I did a reverse look up with that and it was the person that he had an EA with back in 2007. He has told me that he doesn't have feelings for her and that he just wanted to be friends with her. I told him so many times no. This is just not ok with me. I guess I need to talk to him and see why in the world she was calling him and how long this has been going on.

I do not like him having a work laptop that I don't have access to or his work phone. Grrr!


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, April 3rd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How funny that my oldest is 6 and I have a 4 yo, too.

I don't know really if they know anything going on but they certainly have been misbehaving a lot lately.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question about behaviors of a SA I'm currently waiting on MaSH (thank you Ourlifeback!!) and I know that will answer a lot of questions for me. But this morning I was thinking and wonder if this issue is a symptom of others that struggle with SA.

SAH is 37yo. He owns his own business and is very ambitious and is our sole provider. So he CAN and is mature, when needed. However, I was thinking of the issues we've had over the past years and a lot of them are related to his immaturity. He maintains he's the "same person" he was when we met when we were 18. And he's right. Whereas I've grown up, become a mother of 4, and my interests have grown over the years, he's exactly the same. His friends are 15 years younger than us. He likes to hang out with them playing video games and drinking. One Saturday I asked him what he did the night before and he went on to laughingly tell me it was hysterical -- they were all drinking, one of the guys got wasted, they dared him to eat a whole jar of mayonnaise and he did it. THAT'S what he thinks is enjoyable. At the age of 37. We once had his friends and their girlfriends over to play a board game. I swear it was like I was the mother of a teenage son sitting there trying to play a game with his teenage friends. I felt OLD. The girls talked about college and how they'd been clubbing the night before. What did I have to contribute? That our infant twins kept me up all night?!

I'm just wondering if his immaturity could be part of the core issue that his SA also stems from. I swear more times than not I feel like I am his mother. He thinks he's not SA -- that it's an "authority" issue. I tell him no so he wants to do it more. He stays up all night and then wants to sleep in every single day (like he's 18) and gets angry if for some reason he has to get up before 9am. Again, one of the reasons he started his own business. He had a problem answering to a boss and could never get to work on time.

So is immaturity a problem with your SAs? Just wondering at this point if there is ANY hope for us.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 9:09 AM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So is immaturity a problem with your SAs? Just wondering at this point if there is ANY hope for us.

No. I can't say that is an issue with my SAh, except when he was having his one EA/PA. Then he acted like a 16 yr. old teenager in love for the first time.

For him, it's the opposite. We were 23 when we got married. His best man was 60 yrs. old. That was his best friend. For the most part, he has always had friends older than himself. He prefers their company.

It's hard isn't it, wondering if there is any hope for your marriage. I go back and forth constantly. But you know what? It hinges totally on whether our SAhs get serious about their addiction and deal with it properly. You and I cannot predict that. All we can do is work on ourselves by going to IC, support groups and read, read, read. I also journal a lot. I feel more in control every day and with that comes the confidence I can live without him if I have to.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
momofthree2007
♀ Member
Member # 14766
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs,

Thanks again. Maybe once he gets more leave time we can look into MC and IC. For now, I think I can handle some issues with his addiction as long as they remain few and far between and he continues to be responsible. At this point, the only way I'll demand MC/IC is if his acting out becomes consistent again or leave if worse comes to worst.

He's on his way to a meeting right now as I post this.

Hoping2heal,

To an extent, immaturity was a problem with my SAH. At the time he had his first A, the reasons he gave me for heading towards that path was because he didn't get what he wanted out of life. Of course to me that's all BS because we all know that with cheaters it all comes down to them wanting to.
Anyway, there were times my H acted like he was 12. One time, I confronted him about some e-mails he sent in response to some craigslist personal ads. He said, "I need a playmate!" As you can see from my signature, we're both pretty young by today's standards and we've had kids pretty fast, and before we were both emotionally ready. That really got to him.

It came to the point when I told him, either straighten up or I'm gone.


So yeah, immaturity is an issue in most cases, though some are more mature than others.


[This message edited by momofthree2007 at 1:41 PM, April 4th (Saturday)]


H - XWH (32) RSA
D-Day 1, OW1: 3/20/07
D-Day 2. OW2: 6/24/07
Divorced, 08/23/2012
Married 7 years, together 9
One day fling each; online As turned physical physical

Posts: 491 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Florida
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel more in control every day and with that comes the confidence I can live without him if I have to.
1F1B - that is so key! That is what I did, little by little, and it is soooo freeing to know you can stand on your own and you don't HAVE to stay.

hoping2heal
- look at my signature stuff - I'm not just being funny about that. He can be mature about a few things, like when he was police chief, but when it comes to personal issues, he regresses. He fights like a 2 year old, he throws tantrums, he threatens to leave and takes it back, he says horrible things and then excuses it later by saying he was just mad.

He can be very mature with the kids, and has actually been an EXCELLENT step-dad, but if someone hurts his feelings (even a friend), he just gets stupid. Apparently he has a ton of triggers from his childhood and FOO that just puts him right back to childhood everytime something unpleasant comes up.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
omisery
♀ Member
Member # 22967
Default  Posted: 2:45 PM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been riding the rollercoaster of pain for the past 2 months and seems as if I belong in this little club.

I don't know what I want in terms of R. I know WH's words don't mean shit right now, but his actions seem sincere.

Do I have to become a PI for the rest of my life if I remain with him? Some life.


Me: BW 40
Him: WH 45

Is this the end or did it just begin - Led Zeppelin


Posts: 155 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, April 4th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I ended up talking to him last night w/o actually saying that I looked at his phone.

She contacted him out of the blue but he responded and he did not tell me.

So I have no idea what kind of consequences I need to have for such things. He just said that he didn't think he needed to tell me. sigh.

I just don't know what I want sometimes. This is just too hard. And now with no IC for either of us, I just feel so down and hopeless.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
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