This is hard to explain, but what I mean is, I expect an NPD who is cheating to lie about his/her whereabouts, spending, etc. However, I am experiencing a situation with my WH where he has made up a story about a guy I dated during our separation (note we are still separated).
I have since found out that his story coincides with him starting another relationship with another woman, even though he has been begging for me to R.
This is a rather long story but I hope you guys will be willing to read and give me some insight.
A couple of weeks ago, WH told me that a guy I dated during separation (we'll call him "Bob" - not his real name) had started dating someone from our town and that WH has to drive by him multiple times a day. Mind you Bob lives and works 2 hours away.
All WH could talk about was how it made him uncomfortable to drive by Bob, knowing he and I had been together recently. Then, WH started saying he saw Bob all the time and that he found out that Bob had taken a job close to our town. WH knew of the girl Bob was dating because he knew her co-workers and so this is how he knew this info.
It all seemed very strange but I honestly didn't give it much thought because although he was complaining about it, WH kept saying that this was his issue and it had nothing to do with me, plus I have been trying to be NC with him as much as you possibly can with 2 small kids (silly silly me).
So, anyway, his story has escalated over the past week and he now says he can't bear to see me because it reminds him of this guy. Last weekend, every time I saw WH at our kids' events he said that he had just seen Bob drive by him and how painful it was. He would also text me about it. It was just getting ridiculous so I decided I needed to figure out what was going on.
So I asked my sister whose boyfriend knows Bob whether he was dating someone in town. She said no, that he was dating someone where he lives. I looked up Bob's girlfriend's Facebook page and her profile picture is of her and Bob.
So, obviously, WH made all of this up - WTH??? Do NPDs do this to deflect attention from themselves to justify their bad behavior? I found out around the same time that WH has been pursuing a relationship with a mom at our child's preschool even while he is begging me to R. So, I suppose he could have been making the story up to justify his actions but it is SO SO bizarre and weird!!
I want so badly to call him on this BS but I am trying to stay NC as much as possible.
He acts otherwise normal with me when we discuss kids, finances, etc. He is able to hold his job and all - this is just so strange to me. I keep trying to understand but don't think I am going to be able to.
Diagnosed or not, NPD, BPD, pychopath, meh... if your experiences fit in here, you belong here!
mommyblonde -- I'm think that his being "hurt" by seeing Bob is just a ploy to make contact with you. If you argue with him about whether or not he is really seeing Bob, then he wins because he has gotten NPD Supply from you. He could also be looking to elicit sympathy from you ("oh, poor, poor WH, I'm so sorry that this has affected you so") No matter what you say to him, you cannot win, so you are absolutely right to maintain total NC.
Ignore his ridiculous complaints about seeing Bob -- it's just a ruse. Plus, it doesn't matter to you what upsets him. He's left you with enough triggers and mind movies that are legitimate.
Let him stew in his own fabricated lunacies and pseudo-emotional distress.
[This message edited by woundedby2 at 1:09 AM, April 18th (Sunday)]
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
Really -- I'm glad you found your way over here to the NPD thread. If you read the older threads and posts you will possibly read your story over and over. It's uncanny how similar they all are. I do agree with jj in wondering about the counselor's ability to diagnose your WH so quickly, but then my own IC says she can spot a liar in 5 minutes.
Maybe I should clarify? It's not like he said "I am clinically diagnosing him with NPD." WH said a few things at the beginning of our session re: the A and his attitude about it/me. Then the counselor looked at me and asked several questions about WH. Based on that he said that it sounded like he was a "narcissist in the clinical sense". And the more I find out about NPD the more I am sure he is right.
have any of you had the experience of WS making up lies about other people?
My ex lies about so many things it is insane. Most of the time his lies are pointless and show every clearly that he can't tell the truth for the most part, even if his life depends on it. There almost has to be a lie in there someplace just to make him feel in control.
My ex lied about all kind of things. I know it is because of his lies his parents, siblings and the wifetress all hate me so much. He had to poison their thinking to boost himself up somehow. What better way to make sure noone gets the real story than to villify the BS.
I would suppose that someone on the lower end of the disorder would be able to stick with therapy and make improvements that help them function in society better. I think in a marriage you would still have to sacrifice alot just to survive. I am not sure that you have a healthy and thriving relationship with someone like that and the children learn what they see (and they are harmed by the behaviours at times).
Each one of us has to decide what we can live with and what we need to be whole.
I know in my ex's case he tried for a while hoping that he could come back and then go back to his old ways. It happened a few times but his backsliding was usually worse that where he started from. (one step forward, 2 steps back). I finally cut my losses and I don't regret it for one minute.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
Regarding NPDs and lying, have any of you had the experience of WS making up lies about other people?
Yep. It's amazing how much stuff my STBX 'knew' about my lawyer once he found out who she was.
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
I'm not mad because you lied to me, I'm mad because I believed you.
I am actually kind of sickened to find that my belief about the extent of his lying turns out to be right on, and troubled by what it seems to represent. And I was going to ask you all if any of your NPDs lied about everything, all the time. Looks like the answer might be yes.
Narcissists are role-playing all the time. They do not have a core. They don't know who they are (or have never developed a true self that comes from introspection/integration)so they can be anybody they need to be. My STBXNPDH told me once, "I am a chameleon. I can assume the personality of the people or group I am with at the moment"
Mine has a new woman with kids, so he never sees or even talks to the kids anymore. I'm sure that once she sends him packing, he'll want to become Father of the Year again and tell a whole bunch of bullshit lies to the kids.
If my ex's lips are moving, he's lying.
To answer seriously - yes. He has told lies about me to other people. He has told lies about other people to me. He has told other people lies about other people, people they don't even know.
He has lied about things that have no bearing on the conversation, about information I didn't even need to know.
He has lied about his whereabouts on nights he wasn't even schedule to spend time with the kids - and told these lies unprompted by me when I had shown no interest in his personal life.
It's like he is constantly weaving and re-weaving the web of lies to make sure absolutely no one person can ever have the truth, even a small part of it.
Bottom line - if he's NPD, quit listening to him. Ever.
Ditto, ditto, exclamation point. I think the dumbest lie X ever told was when we were at a Mardi Gras celebration. Somebody was talking about how they couldn't cook rice. X said that he could only cook rice in jambalaya in a black pot and that was why we had a rice cooker at home.
#1, he didn't cook at home, except maybe breakfast every blue moon, and he never cooked anything involving rice. #2, HE HATED SMALL APPLIANCES. Waffle irons, toaster ovens, etc. -- he refused to let me buy any (I did anyway, but that's another story). He said they were useless and redundant because we could find an all-purpose appliance (electric griddles, the stove). He told me that if I couldn't cook rice on the stove, I was useless as a Louisianan.
Of course, this pain in the neck philosophy only applied to me, because now Mr.-Newfangled-Appliances-And-Cleaning-Apparatuses-Are-Wasteful bought himself a Swiffer. But the point is, there's nobody on the planet but an NPD who would have thought to lie about owning a $20 kitchen appliance to develop sympatico with someone.
[This message edited by veritas at 1:44 PM, April 19th (Monday)]
Ever consider writing a book?
My STBXNPDWH tells me I should write one and be sure he gets a mention on the acknowledgement page! LOLOL
(you just can't make this stuff up!)
He got fired late last year and that was completely not his fault They just wanted to get rid of him, um, the field he is in people almost never get fired, but I wasn't surprised.
I am now filing for divorce and he is back to his mental damage with a vengence, today I almost lost it. Glad I found this site and have wonderful friends and family to support me. But I am REALLY worried about what the divorce process will hold, there are times he scares me but more importantly I worry about my mental health with his constant manipulation.
You can read more about our lovely situation in the divorce forum under "I filed and now he wants to make it work"
Thanks for the support and insight!
It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!
If you are worried about him and divorce then do everything in your power to protect yourself and your kids. They may well become pawns in his games.
Gather all the information you can and keep it safe. Don't let him know what you are doing and if possible when you file don't be living in the same home. Breaking up with someone like his is bad and divorce is much worse. They tend to have a scorch and burn thinking and don't want you but want to make your life as miserable as possible even after they are gone.
Of course continue with the D, but I'm *concerned* is too light a word.
Have you contacted a shelter and asked for resources? I believe this is attempted murder. I imagine you are drinking out of bottles, and not letting them out of your sight? How is food prep handled? You must be hypervigilant!
Have you told your L about this? Why is he not moving heaven and earth to get this...being... out. of. your. house?
I'm really struggling with this! Slap me upside the head if I'm out of bounds here, but have you considered your children's safety as well?
This is a criminal matter. Your life is at risk.
Please do whatever it takes...lawyer...police...polygraph to get this monster away from you!
I am working real hard to get him to move out, but he doesn't have to until the divorce is final.
I am so concerned for your safety! He has drugged you on more than one occassion - this is a truly sick man. Hun, did he sexually assault you?
You need to get him out of that house. Please have your attorney request that you have exclusive use of the marital home. She should be able to ask for this when she goes in for temporary orders.
If that does not seem likely, please speak to your attorney about how it would affect your case if you moved yourself and the children out of the house. You cannot live with this psychopath while you are trying to divorce. Nuh uh.
Prepare yourself for a long, drawn-out battle. It's gonna get ugly.
I do pray that you are doing everything you can to be sure that he cannot drug or poison you again. That is so frightening.
Hugs and prayers for you and your children.
Please, please, please take care of yourself, and don't think for a minute that you have to wait until the divorce is final. Your lawyer can stipulate that you have exclusive use of the house until the divorce is final.
Is your WH taking any drugs - prescription or otherwise? I know that I went through a really rough period this past winter when my WH went absolutely wacko - he had been taking a mix of prescription meds that made him extremely agitated. These had been pretty much thrown at him by his psychiatrist because he was saying he was uicidal earlier in the year.
After he stopped taking them the craziness went away, although the NPD traits still remained.
This might be a situation where I would suggest you taking the kids and leaving unless your lawyer can tell you that a judge is without a doubt going to issue an emergency temporary possession order/restraining order.
I know that when I was going through the craziness with WH, my lawyer said the judges didn't like to issue those without hearing (and what a bad bad thing that was). It just depends on your state and the judge so find out from your lawyer. You don't want to be in the same house with that man when he gets served unless there is a cop right there ready to remove him per such an order.
So, if the court is only going to set your divorce for a provisional hearing, and not remove him, then you get out first. Don't be there when he receives that notice. I had to grab my kids and escape out the back door the day he got served with notice of the provisional hearing. He started chasing after me down the street until I got to a gas station and then he went away and that was the last time I saw him act crazy. He stopped taking the prescriptions that day. That was all it took - the risk of public humiliation - to make him go away and leave me alone. How very NPD.
Good luck - keep us posted.
I thought it was hysterical the he thought my therapist would try and convince me to stay with him, I just rolled my eyes knowing she would high five me the second I told her.
The day he got served was scary, I was home with the kids, I knew would be suspicious if I wasn't there with them. But he took it fine that night. Since then has been horrible, he never stops with the calls, texts, emails, etc. Last night he was crying so loudly he woke the kids.
He made me file an extension to the time he gets to respond even though my attorney said courts don't care about him being late on that one. He made me spend $300 to draft something on paper or he was going to drag the kids around to find a lawyer.
He's nuts, and my main worry is him making me nuts like he did before.
My IC told me yesterday that my WH is indeed NPD. I had suspected it after reading about narcissism.
I always knew WH thought more highly of himself than me.
I was trying hard to go NC with WH (he moved out 4 months ago) and I did it for three whole days this time. Then I got weak after my IC session yesterday.
Did some email, text & phone. He is so much better at saying hurtful things & brushing off what I say.
I just want to let go of him. I know I deserve a loving & trusting marriage. I. Know. This. Why am I having such a hard time?
He detatched so long ago, I think years before he moved out. I want to be able to do that. I need to move on for me & the kids.
Any help on how to do this with an NPD WH would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.