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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Npd Thread Part V II
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, April 21st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Time and lots of therapy is my answer. They do such a good job of manipulating us that even when we make one stride we tend to go backwards again. That is why I know divorce is the answer, I simply just can't be with him or he manipulates me.


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, April 21st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really?!?
It is to your advantage to find out so quickly. It took me time, and reading victims' stories on here to glom on and catch up with what I was dealing with. Hearing it from another's lips in person is a gift. My hope for you is that it saves your precious time (and heart!)

any one with lie in their nics
ayup. With distance...time...and all that kinda stuff, our abused, fooled vision reasserts itself, becomes clearer. I still live in a cave, but that don't mean there's no light at the entrance! lol

Nicole

Narcissists are role-playing all the time. They do not have a core.

Impossible to imagine. Really. It is. Unless you've experienced it. You, (((tribe))) have...and it's because you're all special. Who else can fill such blankness with themselves? For so long?

Cogal
These are only words on an ephemeral board that will fade in time, but he didn't make you spend...you chose to.
My concern for you will only come out as some unintelligible roar
so I coat in softest velvet my dear
the splintery dam 2X4

always-hope
Distance, 180, NC is your best friend when dealing with a N, however you manage it. Do your best to hide your plans from them. Hide your heart. Time we learn a thing or two from them huh?


Posts: 6030 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 10:08 PM, April 21st (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today he spread over 100 family pictures over our kitchen table along with a note about how he can make this work. I just gathered them up and put them away, I was there idiot! He also asked if I would go with him to see a child psych so they could explain how I am ruining our kids lives. He can.not.be.reasoned.with
I know this and yet why do I even listen?!
So glad I have the best therapist ever and she reminded me it's all about control, he is trying his damnest to get it back. By filing tge extension I fed his NPD and now he has fuel to think he can manipulate me.
I think he may be moving out, someone called for a reference for him. Man I really hope so.

How was I married to this man for 10 years?!


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, April 22nd (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He also asked if I would go with him to see a child psych so they could explain how I am ruining our kids lives.

So there you see the externalizing of an Npd. They are not living within themselves at all...there is no there there!

The pictures on the table are his desperate efforts to remind himself of why he must be human, what's good about being human, and why he's not,
a reminder of why he lacks so much in the care department...a reflection, hello? mirror? of what it means to be real and human.

The difference between real and what he is is getting to him. Thus the drama tableau

I think it's even a warning. Sick freak.
Get. him. out.


Posts: 6030 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Really?!?
♀ Member
Member # 28268
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, April 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We had MC today and I told the counselor I had been doing some reading/research about NPD and was feeling very discouraged. I asked him point blank if he thought H could get better and if it was worth it to stick it out and see what happens.

He told me that he felt I wasn't feeling strongly one way or the other so that I should wait to make any decisions.

He also told me the he thought H's "prognosis for the diagnosis was good". H admits that he needs to change and is able to listen to negative things being said about him during counseling. He said a lot of people with NPD can't do that at all.

He still said it would be a lot of time and work for H to get better, but that he felt he could.

Thoughts for any of you? I am feeling less discouraged than I was, but I don't want to get my hopes up.


Me: BS-30
WH/NPD-31 EA & PA lasting 2 months
Married 5 yrs
3 Kids: 13 (from a prev relationship), 3 and 1
D-Day: March 23, 2010
"My mistake. I didn't know to be in love you had to fight to have the upper hand." -Taylor Swift

Posts: 129 | Registered: Apr 2010
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 9:39 PM, April 23rd (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cogal I really hope he does move out. It will give you the space to recover and do the best you can for you and your kids. Don't worry about him telling you that you divorcing him will harm the kids. They will be better off away from someone who manipulates and controls those around. They will learn how to be real and not have to spend their lives trying to appease the monster in him for some attention. People with NPD don't do so well with children once they start standing up for themselves and dare to point out their parent's faults and call them on their actions Usually the NPD will freak out and either lash out at the child or withdraw from them and those things can be very difficult for the child.

Really I guess the ultimate question is are you will to wait and take a chance with your precious life that with lots of hard work and time he will get better. Will this 'better' be enough once he gets there or will the therapy change him into something even worse? Just because he can change doesn't mean he will and noone but him can control what changes he makes or maintains. These are life long patterns that are so deep they have become the person. They won't change over night and likely not change completely. There is some evidence that people like this can benefit from therapy to make them somewhat easier to live with but they still won't be whole.

I know after years of therapy I saw what changes my ex had made and if anything he was worse after therapy because he knew how to manipulate me better. Sharing in the therapy made it easier for him to attack me when I was most vulnerable. In some ways the therapy made things worse. I was not willing to put my life on hold while he worked to get himself together some more. I swear my whole marriage was held together with therapy over the years.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
Going To Make It
♀ Member
Member # 17010
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, April 25th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I have found the place that fits me the best. I don't feel crazy any longer, just totally blank.

I know what I want, I have ideas, but I am so petrifide of making another huge judgement in error that I don't make any choices, i.e. I can't make that final commitment one way or another to do A or B so none of them get done.

As most people living with or who have lived with a N, they have you doubting if the sky is blue when in fact you know it is.

Divorce is not an option for me, but being a way from him as much as possible is. Of course with the option of him joining me when he's not busy. He's a somatic workaholic, he will never find the time.

I am in awe of the ones who were strong enough to get out! Bravo! I applaud you.

I can't be on here much as I have no privacy, and as jjct said to one of the posters - Hide your heart, so I don't want him invading my only safe place. KWIM?

Take care all and I might pop in tomorrow.

Lillie


BW 47
M 1982 4 Adult Children
2 Grandkids - the light & loves of my life.
LTA Started before we were married and lsted until 9/02 DDay 4/4/04, TT till 9/24/2011

Posts: 948 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Still Wandering in the Desert
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stbx is supposed to move out on the 15th, I am excited, but won't believe it til I see it. Though the fact he has given first months rent makes it more likely he will actually follow thru.
He has also finally hired a lawyer, and BAM he suddenly stopped yelling at me. Now of course he is back on his high horse, HE has the best lawyer, HE knows exactly how this will all play out, HE has done his research so I really should just do as he says......barf, will be so glad to get this ego out of my life.

The big issue we keep arguing about now is his sister. She has been my best friend for 10 years and now he wants me to cut off all contact with her, just until the divorce is over (so 3-6 months!). I keep telling him no, but it gets old to have the same argument. I just remind myself that giving in to this is only about him not wanting me to have a fun friend, not him actually wanting to rekindle a long lost friendship with her.


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
NotSoLuckyNEMore
♀ Member
Member # 21321
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HELP!!!

I'm doing the crazy-making to myself. I'm re-reading all things about NPD, searching for flaws in my perception.

He couldn't really be that bad could he?!

I'm lonely, I'm hurt, I'm second guessing myself.

This is part of what they do to you, or what you do to yourself at this point right?!

I know you don't know him, and can't diagnose, but I'm strugling here.

What if I made up a whole list of requirements to let him back in my life? I'm worth it, right? God, I know he would never even come close to giving me what I would ask for.

But I would have tried right? Like I haven't spent the last 8 years trying, and changing for him (us).

I don't even know what I'm saying right now.


It should absolutely kill you dead when you find out the one you love doesn't love you the same. But...unfortunately it doesn't.

Posts: 171 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Iowa
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, April 26th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Reading these latest posts...trying to get out, wanting to get out, feeling petrified, not being able to do it.

I felt this, and I did it, I was petrified, I was numb (still am much of the time. I second guessed myself for YEARS in ways that I look back on now that were pathetic although I didn't know it at the time.
If I hadn't left, my kids and I wouldn't have survived. Emotionally I mean (the physical threats happened after we left but we have the protection of the law now).

Keep trying, talk to us, talk to therapists, talk to friends, talk to women's shelters and clergy, get help. I found so many supportive friends, family and co-workers. Get your ducks in order even if you think you can't leave. Ask us questions about those duckies, there are many people here who can give advice.
If I could do it, anyone can. It wasn't easy, and it hurt like hell, but it was the best thing I ever did for myself and my children.


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1277 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, April 27th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate to tell people to leave but if you are with someone who has a personality disorder your best option is to leave. It is the hardest thing you will ever do but it is worth it in the end.

I know my ex because a real freak after he left and he did on occasion abuse the kids on visits which became less and less. I can only imagine what we all would have suffered had we stayed.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
Really?!?
♀ Member
Member # 28268
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, April 28th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, last night WH told me that he had "come to the realization" that he is manipulative of other. (Um, you think?!?) But then he said that I had never been manipulated by him because even though I always do what he wants I don't always do it happily. So, apparently to him manipulation = happily doing whatever he wants?! That's delusional, right? Or am I the crazy one?

He did admit that when manipulating me "didn't work" he resorted to ultimatums and threats.

I am starting to realize that he has no basic idea how to be in a relationship with another person. Writing out things like this makes me wonder why I'm so conflicted about whether to R.

[This message edited by Really?!? at 1:05 PM, April 28th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS-30
WH/NPD-31 EA & PA lasting 2 months
Married 5 yrs
3 Kids: 13 (from a prev relationship), 3 and 1
D-Day: March 23, 2010
"My mistake. I didn't know to be in love you had to fight to have the upper hand." -Taylor Swift

Posts: 129 | Registered: Apr 2010
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 9:26 PM, April 28th (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It took a year of trying to R to get here, so don't ever feel dumb for what your doing, remember they are masters and often have thier grips on us for years, it takes a lot of undoing to get to a "good" place.
Stbx wrote me a long long love poem of how he did so wrong by me yesterday, did it make me think...yeah, for about 3 seconds. This man had me begging to take me back after 3 d-days and all he had was hate for me until the day he was served. Actions speak louder than words, actions speak louder than words, that is my mantra.

[This message edited by Cogal at 10:12 PM, April 28th (Wednesday)]


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
SoCalDad
♂ New Member
Member # 28234
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, May 1st (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am convinced my WW has many NPD qualities. It has been hell the last few months. She has vowed in the past to make my life a living hell and she is living up to it. I've had to spend over $10,000 in attorney's fees and we haven't even had our first court date. She is a master at turning everything into something about her. She really has pulled out all the stops at trying to get to me since I told her I wanted a divorce. She has yelled, belittled me, insulted me and thrown stuff on me and all I did in response was laugh at her and tell her that her little tricks won't work anymore.

She is a very intelligent woman with her own law pratice. She has tried some of her petty litigation tricks on me but since we have been together so long I know what they are. I am saving all of her nasty accusatory e-mails that she sends me and keeping a journal of all of the things she is doing that she accuses me of doing. I don't respond to the negative parts of her e-mails and don't engage in debates with her anymore. It's like rasslen' with a pig with her when I do try to respond, we both get dirty and she enjoys it. With her it doesn't matter if it is good attention or bad attention she just likes the attention. So I have stopped giving her any. I think it is pissing her off.


The Gypsy lied

Me: BS 50
Her: WW 51
2 DD 2 DS
Married 23 Years
DD May 2009
Filed for Divorce Feb 2010
Divorce Final July 2012


Posts: 18 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: So Cal
ScribblingMum
♀ Member
Member # 20097
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, May 2nd (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can relate to sooo much of what you all share here...

I'd imagine A LOT of these guys have UNdiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder, as my WH does...
I'd recommend reading about it...
A very helpful book is: Borderline Personality Disorder Demystified [/bold]-(An Essential Guide for Understanding & Living with BPD) by Robert O. Friedel, MD.

It details the behaviors, consequences, and other comorbid mental illnesses that often accompany BPD...it explains the magical/delusional thinking, etc..

Will make you realize YOU aren't crazy...very very helpful book...

[This message edited by ScribblingMum at 12:46 AM, May 2nd (Sunday)]


~ScribblingMum~
D-D 1: 12/23/06 - Porn (dd bust him on-line)
D-D 2: 4-25-08 - Massage P.'s(new act. in pretend recov.)
D-D 3:9-9-08 Caught call m. girl
D-Day 4: 6/30/09 -: free MP g.f./prost.
D-Day 5: 1-10-10: new mp prost's.
~DONE!


Posts: 1529 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: S .CALIF.
ThatWasFun
♂ Member
Member # 21110
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, May 3rd (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoCalDad,

Voice
Activated
Recorder

Your STBX is intelligent, a lawyer, and an NPD? This sounds like an extremely dangerous combination. Protect yourself. Record every single thing.


This, too, shall pass.

Posts: 568 | Registered: Oct 2008
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all. My IC has suggested that WH has NPD. She met him once, and is going on what I've told her.

I understand that no one can diagnose, but I wanted to know if this behavior is something that NPD do?

WH has always been charming. Got me to do anything and everything by being charming. Since his DDay, almost a year ago and the charm is not working, he has said horribly nasty things. It's like he's having a temper tantrum.

To the point, is this an average (can't really say "normal") behavior...to get what they want by charm, and resort to "temper tantrums" when they don't?

Thank you for any insight.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
SoCalDad
♂ New Member
Member # 28234
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ThatWasFun

California is a two party consent state and recording of confidential communications is a violation of the law. Because I was fearful of physical assault and or extortion a couple of times I did record our interaction. That may have been the only thing that kept me from being charged with domistic violence after she filed a false report with the police. I am documenting everything that happens and hope that her fear of exposure will allow me to obtain a good settlement. Yeah she is dangerous. She had her sister work for her firm. She didn't like the way her sister did her job so she made it impossible for her to work. SIL says she was fired, WW says she quit. SIL applied for unemployment and WW fought it. According to SIL, WW produced false evidence in the unemployment case. SIL did not get unemployment. WW wonders why no one in her family will speak with her. Yeah it is going to be a bummpy ride.


The Gypsy lied

Me: BS 50
Her: WW 51
2 DD 2 DS
Married 23 Years
DD May 2009
Filed for Divorce Feb 2010
Divorce Final July 2012


Posts: 18 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: So Cal
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 5:33 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mommyblonde
Regarding NPDs and lying, have any of you had the experience of WS making up lies about other people?

Yes. When I was going through my divorce with my XNPDH, he lied about everybody and everything. He would even say that he KNEW the judge in our case personally and that he and his attorney were having "secret dinner meetings" with him and that he had "inside information" about how the judge was going to rule completely against me if I didn't do whatever he wanted at that given moment. He lied about EVERYTHING. He even lied when it didn't matter. Pathological lying is hallmark when it comes to the NPD.

Disengage and go complete NC. Have your attorney deal with him. They manipulate and lie during "normal times" but when going through a divorce this behavior is escallated considerably. If you don't cut off the contact, you'll find yourself wasting valuable time and energy sorting through what is true and what is not sifting through this crap.

Cogal
Sounds to me that you are dealing with a dangerous type NPD. (like mine; see profile) Like you, I am almost positive mine was giving me something too. I don't know if it was poison, but he was giving me something that imobilized me making it almost impossible to function for months. EVERYTHING was my fault. As far as his affairs, he never admitted anything. They were all in my head (my mental illnesses; his diagnosis) The OC was also something that I "imagined."

My advice to you would be to seek a protection order from your court system and get him out of the house. Get in touch with your local victims rights advocates to determine what you have to do to get one and do it now.

Do NOT inform him of ANY of your plans and never, ever underestimate a man like this. They simply don't have a "bottom" when it comes to "he won't go that low." You would be amazed at how low they will go.

Going To Make It

I know what I want, I have ideas, but I am so petrifide of making another huge judgement in error that I don't make any choices, i.e. I can't make that final commitment one way or another to do A or B so none of them get done.

This is what they do. They keep you so off balance that you don't know which way is up any longer. I'm not sure why you say that "divorce is not an option" but I can tell you that continuing to live with an NPD will only leave you as a shell of your former self. The life will continue to be sucked out of you as the NPD will literally use you as his "life force" to make himself appear human.

NotSoLuckyNEMore
It's not you. This is what it's like living with an NPD. This is their crazy making. Life isn't suppose to be this hard. The problem is you will never be able to do enough, give enough or be enough and in the end, you will lose yourself trying.

honesttoafault

To the point, is this an average (can't really say "normal") behavior...to get what they want by charm, and resort to "temper tantrums" when they don't?

To the point, Yes. My XNPDH was incredibly charming and manipulative. But when he wouldn't get his way it was like flipping a switch. He would throw a HUGE temper tantrum. Just like a three year old. And then stand there screaming at me, "YOU are so immature!!"


[This message edited by sadtoo at 5:34 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, May 4th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoCalDad)))
So, recording is against the law yet it saved you?

Keep recording. The law is an ass.

We could fill the next 5 pages of the thread with stories as dumbfounding as sadtoo's little point at the end...where they're screaming in a temper-tantrum, calling you immature.

Having been so close to such jaw-dropping lunacy is hard friends. I'm glad you found your way here, just as I'm glad I did.
(((Tribe)))


Posts: 6030 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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