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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Npd Thread Part V II
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, June 18th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found this article, and I really liked the section about the NPD being emotionally stuck at a childhood age where some early trauma occurred. I think this is absolutely true. I am quite certain that mine is about 9 years old.

How to Spot a Narcissist

At the core of extreme narcissism is egotistical preoccupation with self, personal preferences, aspirations, needs, success, and how he/she is perceived by others. Some amount of basic narcissism is healthy, of course, but this type of narcissism is better termed as responsibly taking care of oneself. It is what I would call “normal” or “healthy” narcissism.

Extreme narcissists tend to be persons who move towards eventually cutting others off and becoming emotionally isolated. There are all types of levels on that road to isolation. Narcissists come in all shapes, sizes, and degrees. I would like to address how a person becomes an extreme narcissist.

Narcissism, in lay terms, basically means that a person is totally absorbed in self. The extreme narcissist is the center of his own universe. To an extreme narcissist, people are things to be used. It usually starts with a significant emotional wound or a series of them culminating in a major trauma of separation/attachment. No matter how socially skilled an extreme narcissist is, he/she has a major attachment dysfunction. The extreme narcissist is frozen in childhood. He/she became emotionally stuck at the time of his/her major trauma of separation/attachment. In my work with extreme narcissist patients I have found that their emotional age and maturity corresponds to the age they experienced their major trauma. This trauma was devastating to the point it almost killed that person emotionally. The pain never was totally gone and the bleeding was continuous. In order to survive, this child had to construct a protective barrier that insulates him/her from the external world of people. He/she generalized that all people are harmful and cannot be trusted. The protective insulation barrier he/she constructed is called a false persona. He/she created a false identity. This identity is not the true person inside. The many types of false personas or identities that an extreme narcissist creates can vary. Some narcissists may have the ability to change into a variety of identities according to the situation. The wounded child inside may choose to present a front as a “bad ass” and tough individual. He/she may look, by appearance, intimidating and scary to the average person. He could also play the “nice guy/person” whom everyone likes. A corporate type version can be one that is diplomatic, proper, and appearing to care but in reality does not. Another very likeable extreme narcissist can be the one that chooses the comedian role. He/she is the life of the party and has everyone in stitches, making them laugh constantly. Everyone wants to include this person because they are a lot of fun. Try to get close or ask personal questions as to how he/she is internally doing and feeling and you will find is that he/she will quickly distract you. They will sidestep the question with another joke, making you suddenly forget what you were asking. Narcissists can be very skilled at dodging and ducking personal questions. If you press them, they will then slot you as “unsafe” and will begin to avoid you and exclude you from their life. There is also the success oriented narcissist. He/she will be your friend and keep you close to him/her as long as you are useful. Once you do not have anything more to offer and he/she has taken all they wanted from you, you are history. You are no longer desired, wanted, or sought.

[This message edited by woundedby2 at 8:46 PM, June 18th (Friday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7633 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, June 20th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just want to throw out the idea of a parenting coordinator. I have got one through court order, my intitiative, and am just beginning to use her. Of course, NPD XWH has not paid his half of the retainer nor made the intial appt. (I think the email read something to the effect of "I'll let you make that appt. for me" replete with grammar and spelling mistakes.)

I was thinking of the posts remarking upon the use of third party or legal means to get these vampires to head in the right direction (why I'm doing this)and also working in the realty of my still being the one doing the long distance parenting for the two teens that still stay with him 50/50. By the way, my atty. and his both wanted me to get a parenting coordinator that was a lawyer and a mental health professional!

I will update you all with what happens in this arena as I can see it may either be a help to some here or may be words to the wise on a path to not spend the resources on.


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1277 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
diditagn
♀ Member
Member # 3433
Default  Posted: 10:58 PM, June 20th (Sunday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think that is a great idea, that way you won't have to deal with him at all. It will help with your recovery process.


Happy people don't have the best things, they make the best with what they have.

Posts: 1556 | Registered: Feb 2004 | From: WI
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, June 21st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know how it is when you read a good book, and you want everyone to read it?

Here:
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=196693&AP=1&HL=10617

It is a repository of wisdom.
I'm snipping one poster's comments as they apply to the current discussion...my apparently evolving quest.


"Mediators and GAL's tend to have a bias in favor of communication, believing that the more the two parents speak to each other, the better things will go for the children. In domestic violence cases the truth is often the opposite, as the abuser uses communication to intimidate or psychologically abuse, and to keep pressuring the victim for a reunion. Victims who refuse to have any contact with their abusers may be doing the best thing both for themselves and for their children, but the evaluator may then characterize her as being the one who won't let go of the past or who can't focus on what is good for the children. This superficial analysis works to the (NPD's) advantage."

(hi auntie! i miss u terribly!)
(((TRIBE)))


Posts: 6019 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 8:47 PM, June 21st (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Victims who refuse to have any contact with their abusers may be doing the best thing both for themselves and for their children, but the evaluator may then characterize her as being the one who won't let go of the past or who can't focus on what is good for the children. This superficial analysis works to the (NPD's) advantage.

This is so true!! I think our custody mediator realized that he was an abuser. But when I went back before the judge a couple months back for the Restraining Order, the judge was admonishing me for not keeping open lines of communication and for not responding to X-assclown's phone calls right away.

Well, I don't have communication with him for a reason. That's why I was seeking a Restraining Order. And as far as not responding to his calls: when he can just call me once and leave a polite message, well then maybe I'll call him back. Until then, I will continue to deploy my protective measures thank you very much.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7633 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
rainagain
♀ Member
Member # 14917
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, June 22nd (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree that things could head that direction in regards to the communication(by being asked or required to do more when less is better and safer). However, when or if he finally pays his retainer to the parenting coordinator, we then will copy her on emails. Since there are things related to the children we have to talk about, I will have a legal presence to help keep him on track - at least this is the hope. Either one of us can ask her to step in to help - if he is doing so because he's having difficulty then he will be charged. (That's how it was described to me by the lawyer, his NPD machinations are "difficulties"!) He won't be able to get away with being unreasonable anymore and since I am reasonable, of course!, it should help to have the pc involved. Parenting coordinators do not get involved in any financial "discussions", dare I call them that? - and so this is where he is going absolutely NPD crazy on me. He figured out that no one is going to monitor these emails and if it weren't for the fact that he'll never pay me ever for half of the expenses even if it is in the agreement, these emails would actually be funny.


Now, faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you cannot see. Heb 11:1
I done been through the pain and the sorrow the struggle is nothing but love. Maino
Me: Divorced BS 49
DS22, DD19, DS17

Posts: 1277 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Massachusetts
sick_of_the_lies
♀ Member
Member # 26961
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, June 23rd (Wednesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate to say it, because I am one of the people who believes in 3rd party involvement, but I would not have used one ordered by the court unless I had to. At least, not at the time. I would feel slightly more confident doing it now, I think. But NPDs do have an amazing ability to pull the wool over people's eyes, and guardian ad litems often don't get involved enough to see beyond that. And, on a slightly more cynical side, they are not always impartial. I have a family attorney in the family, and it is sort of shocking to hear some of the stories. There are some great ones out there, but there are some pretty awful ones as well.

rainagain, I would advise keeping track of the fact that he's not making appointments, paying the retainer, etc. I had some other advice, but then I remembered that you are already divorced, correct? Are you still having custody disputes, or is this just to deal with issues involving co-parenting? If it's an ongoing issue, I imagine you have plenty of prior documentation about what he's done in the past, and I would make sure to have that available when you do meet with her.

[This message edited by sick_of_the_lies at 8:45 PM, June 23rd (Wednesday)]


Posts: 113 | Registered: Dec 2009
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 6:01 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there any circumstances for those of you here that you would considered taking the NPD back? Don't worry, I'm not there, not even close, but I do think about the what if's.
He is now not texting obscene amounts, offering to pay me what he owes me (should get check Sunday, not holding my breath), saying he'll make an appt with IC, etc.
Say he does all of what I ask, would there be any reason I should consider sticking it out?
My thinking is I want to divorce him no matter what, I do not want to ever have to go thru this again. Even if he became reasonable, less emotional, better with money, less controlling, etc I do not want to be married.

Feeling weak with his "niceness".


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cogal, perhaps you should just keep going with the divorce, tell WH that you can try work on R. If it works out, you can always get remarried with a pre-nup!!
I'm not joking.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I'm always the one with questions, but here's another:
WH and I have been together for 22 years (married 18).
I know there were times WH may have seem to me unreasonable, but I always took it to be a mood, or just him. Over the years, there was more and more "unreasonableness", but he seemed to balance it enough with his charm, etc.

Can they act "semi-normal" for so long? It seems that those who knew WH superficially thought he was wonderful. Some people who were not taken in by his charm thought he treated me badly.

Thanks for any input. I am really trying to heal. WH is a huge cake eater and has told me he won't give up OW, but loves me and doesn't love her.

It's not a decision I have to make, just trying to make sense of things and heal.

Thank you.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 7:37 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My stbxNPD was always extreme (elated, depressed, angry, etc), but called him passionate. Lots of outsiders saw him as normal because I played a really good ref between him and everyone else.

In my case I don't think anyone else sees him as being as flawed as I do, but I also don't think anyone other than brief encounters thought he was "normal".
His superiority complex was not something he ever hid, nor was his disdain if you did not live up to his standards.
But he can also be very charming and he is very good looking and smart, though I haven't seen anyone last, except me, for very long, he went thru friends and jobs fast.


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
Nicole5
♀ Member
Member # 17794
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cogal,

I have been married 30 years. There is no way I could take him back. He is fine as a go to guy if I want to go the movies or grab a bite to eat. He cannot, however, form emotional attachments, and without that I could never consider him "husband" material.

honesttoafault--it is my experience that they can act normal for quite a while. Afterall, they are actors and the world is their stage. I also minimized his moods, etc. Once the infidelity became known and it became increasingly difficult for him to act the role of good husband, all bets were off. Attempts to charm me back to sleep, distract me from seeing who he really was eventually failed.

They are forever and always managing their image. Once my NPD realized he couldn't manipulate how I viewed him, he decided "game over".

Is this making any sense? I feel like I am rambling


divorced my WH on Nov 4, 2011
(see my profile for "the story")


Posts: 338 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: TX
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know the man lacks empathy, does he ever, the only thing he cares about is when he hurts.
So why is he crying all the god damn time? Why does he say he misses me? I have never seen him care about anyone else besides OW and our kids, so I'm sure it is some unhealthy abusive "love" he has for me, right?
I mean he watched me suffer for so long, go on all kinds of meds (none of which I need now, surprise surprise) and NOW he feels so bad, blah, blah. It can't be genuine right?


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
Nicole5
♀ Member
Member # 17794
Default  Posted: 9:30 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My guess, Cogal? He's feeling exceptionally sorry for himself.

My NPD's pity parties are legendary around here!


divorced my WH on Nov 4, 2011
(see my profile for "the story")


Posts: 338 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: TX
Cogal
♀ Member
Member # 28314
Default  Posted: 11:44 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yeah, it's all about him. He is sad, he is depressed, he got kicked out...boohoo. He wants me back so HE can feel better, duh. Still not thinking about me, how do I buy this shit, even if for a moment!


Me (bw): 30 something
exH NPD: 30 something
kids: preschool twins
d-day 4/09 (7 month EA/PA)
married 10 years
divorced and ready for 2011

It's not that I have trust issues, it's that you shouldn't trust some people!


Posts: 279 | Registered: Apr 2010
fallenangel02
♀ Member
Member # 15044
Default  Posted: 11:49 PM, June 24th (Thursday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you guys posted some great content ....thanks for sharing. it really helped understand issues with NPD...

just wondering...it said if you block off the NPD...then they find thier N supply elsewhere...

when it got too much for me, i stopped responding to WS...he DEMANDED that i listen to him and give him moral support...(i still didnt )
my NPD WS went to chatting ...right away...and started telling girls how intelligent...rich...he is ..blah blah...girls were all falling for him...he doesnt know i am reading all these chats...

so i guess...i shudnt take this personally....it was expected to happen...if i was like a doll with no brain and just said yes master..yes your highness...he wouldnt be cheating online..?

just a thought....

[This message edited by fallenangel02 at 11:51 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]


BS: 26 - me
WH: 31
Dday 1: dec. 27, 2006
dday 2:june 14th 2007

Posts: 268 | Registered: Jun 2007
Nicole5
♀ Member
Member # 17794
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, June 25th (Friday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fallenangel02--no matter what-- no matter how close to perfect you are--they always have multiple supply lines.

Imagine they are invisible and cease to exist unless they can see themselves in a mirror. Imagine the mirror is the face/attention of the supply.

eta: pressed enter too soon..lol

[This message edited by Nicole5 at 8:14 AM, June 25th (Friday)]


divorced my WH on Nov 4, 2011
(see my profile for "the story")


Posts: 338 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: TX
mommyblonde
♀ Member
Member # 22548
Default  Posted: 8:23 PM, June 26th (Saturday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fallenangel, I have wondered about this too. STBX was chatting with multiple women while we were supposedly R - I kept thinking after that maybe I should've done something differently. I thought I had taken things too slow and that made him go run for supply.

When I am in a more rational frame of mind, I remind myself that if we were truly in R and he did not have a personality disorder, he would've given me as long as it took for me to become comfortable with him again. He never ever did anything to show that he was truly remorseful - I don't think he is capable.


"When a heart breaks no it don't breakeven" The Script

Posts: 513 | Registered: Jan 2009
Nicole5
♀ Member
Member # 17794
Default  Posted: 11:10 AM, June 28th (Monday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: Remorse...

The most I ever got was "I am sorry that you got hurt while I was searching for my happiness"


divorced my WH on Nov 4, 2011
(see my profile for "the story")


Posts: 338 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: TX
MaleableReality
♀ Member
Member # 22451
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, June 29th (Tuesday), 2010View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Its all unraveling now. My stbxNPD has become more and more unstable. He came to drop the kids off the other day and I needed to hear what he had to say about some problems. Supposedly he's been fired from his job, but then he can't produce a document that proves that so that I can get us medical insurance through my company. During this conversation I kept my face and tone as neutral and disinterested as possible. It started out ok, he was very calm, telling me his story but then got to a point where he had to tell me how irritated he was at some loser's incompetence, and how offended he was when someone tried to find a solution to his problem for him, and his histrionics came into play. Over the space of an hour, I saw him go through a massive shift from totally "normal" seeming to complete lunatic. His lies started to unravel and he was tripping all over himself like he could hear how he was revealing too much or whatever. I asked a simple question that pointed out the lunacy of what he was telling me and that was where he escalated. It was a few minutes after that that he turned on me and started to attack. I worked him towards the door and just shut it down by saying, "you know what, this is pointless, let's not fight, let's just let the lawyers deal with it." All the time his voice getting louder and louder (kids right in the other room) as the pointy finger comes out and starts pointing at me while he tells me how I am spending HIS money and he's supporting ME (we make the same amount of money jackass, you aren't supporting ME, WE are supporting the kids!) and how the state will mandate he pays less child support than what he's giving me now, etc, etc. He finally turned and left, got in his car and continued to berate me while he started backing out. I saw he was going to hit the gate at the end of the driveway so I yelled for him to stop, but of course, this fell on dead ears. The only thing that stopped it from being worse is that my 5 year old came out to say goodbye to Daddy and he had to stop yelling, slowed the car down a bit and did his insipid patronizing the kids voice to say goodbye to her while he backed right into my gate and broke it.

Unbelieveable. Wish I had that entire conversation recorded and wish I had a camera. That same day I found he'd dropped off his recycling in my can (I allow this because I'm a friggin idiot) and I see its all wrapped up in a black plastic bag. Pull the bag open a bit and out pops two huge vodka bottles. No wonder he's trying to cover it up. Jesus! Just unbelievable.

Kids heard the "fight" and my oldest asked me about it. I said we weren't fighting, daddy just got upset, its nothing to worry about.

I love it. My voice never got above a conversational tone but "we" are fighting. LOL, sure, that's it.

The craziest part is that the next morning when I went to drop the kids, he acted perfectly normal, like it never happened. Crazy son of ... UGH!!!!


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