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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 3
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, May 17th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H2H,

It is a little hard to pinpoint how you know they are serious about recovery, but it is kinda like when folks say how you just know the difference between a foggy WS and a remorseful WS .

My H's SA was "diagnosed" by he and I last May. Immediately, we knew this was something we couldn't handle without help.

But, it took H a month before he hemmed and hawed and found an IC "experienced" with SA. He started going weekly in June. He would sit and fill the chair each week.

He bargained then, that he was no where near as bad as those awful stories in the Carnes books. He didn't want or need group therapy. He hid his lowest level of acting out, justifying that it wasn't really acting out (scanning), hardly every cracked the Carnes workbook his IC told him to work through. He kinda treated the process more like pennance than therapy. Like somehow, just going was gonna work.

After much nagging (by his IC, not me) he finally tried a couple of different groups, and settled into a Celebrate Recovery group for a few months. He didn't like it, didn't think it was helping, didn't find a sponsor, but he went each week. So now he' sitting in IC 2 x a month and going to weekly meetings, still scanning, and not making any noticable progress.

By now I'm fed up. It took 2 freaking years from dday to May 08 to get to the SA crap, and I can see 7-8 months later, he is not approaching his recovery seriously at all. Nothing is really changing just because he is going to IC and CR group. I tell him, and mean it, btw, I'm no longer committed to this M. It takes too much work for me to stay and he seems very unwilling to do any real work to make it last. And that' okay. If he wanted us to last, he'd do the work, babe, I get it. Lack of action, lack of responding IS an answer.

He switched to a real SA group at this time. The first meeting he was assigned a temporary sponsor. Lo and behold, this guy and this group made him see what real sobriety and recovery was like and he wanted in.

He kept going, and got a permanaent sponsor. Started to work the 12 steps. He realized quickly, once he got serious how woefully inadequate his IC was. He found a CSAT and switched. He is more into doing things to achieve recovery - working steps, KEEPING TOTALLY SOBER, doing IC homework, really working a recovery program.

All that said, I have to say I wish he were even more serious about it. It has been over 3 years since dday and I'm tired of the crap a lot of days and wish I could light a fire under his butt. But I can't.

That is when I need to turn the focus to me. Self-care. Ya get sick of hearing it, but once you start really detaching from their problem and taking care of yourself, the anxiety over what they are or are not doing lessens.

I will not stay in this M unless he is actively working his recovery program and sober. He knows it. I know it. It is not a threat. It is simply self-responsible to have that boundary and enforce it.

Which can include monitoring. For me, w/H's SA behaviors, monitoring is next to impossible. I don't know when he's scanning and can't possibly know he's not m-bating. I can see him doing his IC homework. I can see him going to meetings. Caling his sponsor. Working his 12 steps. He truly was never into porn - not "real" enough for him. Its not allowed in this house anyway, and we have keyloggers because we have teenagers. I guess if he switched to that I'd know, too.

Sobriety is sort of the cornerstone to recovery. I really don't see how anything can get accomplished with the CSAT until they are completely sober. Working the program and acting out seem like mutually exclusive events.

I'm not sure I've helped here. I guess I wanted to tell you, that my H seemed to go through a denial/bargaining/acceptance cycle before he approached recovery in earnest. Maybe your H is sorta going through something similar.

I don't think monitoring is wrong, so long as you are doing it to enforce your boundaries and not try to control him or his behaviors.

Peace, hon.

-JW

[This message edited by JustWow at 8:38 AM, May 17th (Sunday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Silla
♀ New Member
Member # 23443
Default  Posted: 3:13 AM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H2H said "Whether he gets healthy or not, that's up to him. But I have my boundaries (will not stay with him if he doesn't/can't accept his issues), so in a way I feel I check up on him to know what I'M dealing with. I don't want to waste my time on someone who won't help himself, and the only way I know to figure out whether or not he's helping himself is to check up on him.

Does that make sense? I would assume even when I get myself healthy, I am going to need to know if he's at least trying to recover, so that I can make a decision whether or not to stay with him."


I have problem with completely detaching myself from my SA behaviors. This is so true in my situation that I feel I should know if my SA is not being honest or if he is acting out so I can reinforce the boundaries I set.

My boundaries are very unforgiving and straight forward, if he acts out again then our relationship is dead b/c I will not put myself in this painful path again. And my heart tells me if he relapses, he is not going to tell me about it knowing this is going to end our relationship, so I have to figure it out myself.

For me, the best way to find out he is being honest is to ask him some direct questions when I sense something is not right or to monitor his activities to make sure he is doing what he said he is doing.

My H doesn't mind that I check on him in any way I want, in fact he encourages me to do so if that will give me some kind of peace of mind. I just donít want to wait another 24yrs to learn that I lived a delusional life.
Silla


Posts: 30 | Registered: Mar 2009
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 5:34 AM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silla:
I think if you are monitoring in order to enforce your boundaries, and not to try to manage his addiction, it is fine. I do not believe detaching from the illness means sticking your head in the sand and pretending it isn't there.

I have a tough time nailing down exactly how to verbalize detaching. But in order to enforce my boundaries, I have to remove a lot of the stuff I used to take personally from the equation, accept that he has this illness, and set the boundary and let go of the outcome.

I said I didn't monitor a lot myself, because most of H's acting out behaviors are largely unmonitorable. At least, if I did monitor, there is more chance that I'd miss it than catch it. I DO pay attention that he is actively working his program, I don't remind him to or nag him to, I just observe.

Also, when he was using last fall (scanning - his lowest level acting out) I could tell by his personality change, his emotional distancing, a sudden shift.

Detaching from the illness doesn't mean ignoring it to me, it means to stop taking it personally AND to set healthy boundaries with myself to help protect me.

I hope that makes sense.

-JW


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, May 18th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Justwow hit it really well with this:

Detaching from the illness doesn't mean ignoring it to me, it means to stop taking it personally AND to set healthy boundaries with myself to help protect me.

If you are staying in the relationship for now, you still have to pay attention to your partner, and learn to trust your instincts. Many of the members on here are aware when their partners are "using", because they create a distance between partners. They will become less emotionally available.

Detaching, to me, means making sure you have enough of a life outside of your partner, so that if things don't work out, you still have other interests to keep you going. It means having other friends, hobbies, a career, support groups; just basically a life that doesn't necessary include your partner in every single facet.

It means you can still love your partner, without depending on him 100% to fulfill all your needs. That is how I understood the detachment part.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14915 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Silla
♀ New Member
Member # 23443
Default  Posted: 12:48 AM, May 19th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


For some time I believed I was responsible for his addiction so I saw his problem as our problem, but I learned this is very painful and complex problem, that no matter how I decide to go about it I need to be strong and healthy, I learned I needed to take care of myself first.
I am attending many S-Anon meetings which are helping me a lot in taking care of myself. At the beginning I was looking and searching for answers that would help me solve or understand his behavior, answers that will help me to decide weather to leave or stay in the marriage but now at least I am not thinking about leaving unless he crosses the boundaries.

My problem is more detaching myself from his past behavior, I am not as obsessed as I was 6 months ago, but I am struggling with the details he told me. I still donít have the right tools to detach myself from the past so a lot of the times I feel sad because I just let the thoughts go on and on in my already disturbed head .

Silla


Posts: 30 | Registered: Mar 2009
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, May 19th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think I'm on the right track with everything said. I monitor. I see he's not sober. I DON'T confront or accuse. Don't even let him know that I know. The info is for ME, not to manage him. Of course I mention it to my IC (who works in conjunction with his CSAT), so that she can let him know SAH is still not sober. I guess THAT can be seen as managing because I'm hoping the CSAT will say something to him.

But I'm slowly learning to detach. I just started a woman's group for codependents, run by my CSAT. The women have a variety of issues, but there is one woman there who also has a SA spouse. And her H's acting out is WAY more than what I know mine's is. Sad. (I told her about SI and this forum!). Also, at the CSAT's request, I've started reading "The Language of Letting Go" and it's REALLY good at helping me take care of myself and not him.

Every single day, you all are in my thoughts and prayers. It's such a blessing that I've found such a wonderful, compassionate group of people with similar problems and we can help each other! I love you all!


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
birdwatch
♀ Member
Member # 19978
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, May 19th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear hoping2heal and silla,

Both of you asked: If my husband acts out again, I have a right to make the decision to end the relationship. So if I do not check up on him, how would I know he is or is not acting out, and therefore, be able to exercise my right to make that decision?

I have no answer, but can only share my experience.

About 6 months ago, I checked my husbands' email accounts a couple of times a day. Every time I check, I would have a minor anxiety attack in anticipation of what I might find. Living in constant anxiety affected my work and made me depressed and exhausted.

I spoke withb my IC. We all know checking up is not "preventative" but is "reactive". In other words, if our spouses are going to act out, our checking up is not going to stop it. (For example, when my husband was acting out, he called me twice within three hours from home to say hello; I was comforted that he was at home and not wondering around town meeting OWs; alas, he invited OW to our house and called be right before and right after she left!). I, like you, however, would like to know so that if our spouses act out again, we would at least be aware of that and be able to act on it.

So, if I reduce my checking up from twice a day to, lets say, twice a week, would that really affect my end goal of protecting myself? My answer is no. If, for example, my husband and another woman has steamy email exchanges on Monday, and if I check the email account once a week on Friday, that would mean that I would know about those elicit emails four days later. I conlude that I can live with four days later.

My IC and I then worked out a system. I would check both emails and check whatever I want once a week only. In the beginning, it was difficult to not yield to the temptation to check up in-between, and when that happened, I write in my journal (and then I will share my entries with my IC). Acutally, in a twisted sense, I was put in a position to "stop my addiction" from checking. It gives me a new found understanding of what my husband must be going through - to know that the behaviour is harmful, that one must stop, but yet still feels compulsed to do it. It really is eye-opening.

Now that I have been doing this for six months, it gets easier. I do not get anxiety attacks as often, while I still feel like I am protecting myself.

If you two want, the three of us can start a pact and you can start with a small step. No checking for 3 days (so do not check until Thursday). Until then, every time you want to check, write in your journal or do something else instead.

Like justwow and naiveagain said, it is about detaching yourself from your husband's recovery. Our husband's recovery is beyond our control. It is about re-focusing on ourselves, to heal emotionally and to re-develop a sense of self by engaging in other activities separate and apart from the SA.

Ready for a pact?

birdwatch


* Known WS since 2001. Me: 37.
* D Day 1 - Mar 2008: Discovered cyber/phone sex, dating sites etc
* D Day 2 - May 2008: Discovered more "stuff". WS admitted to one A - my gut says > half a dozen.
* R'ing. IC & MC. WS is sex addict.

Posts: 377 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Toronto, Canada
Katty
♀ New Member
Member # 23231
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, May 19th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The diffficulty I have with monitoring is that I am not sure what to do if (when)I find something. I admire H2H having the strength to not confront him - I tend to challenge him until he admits something and then I am never sure if he is just confirming what I already know or being honest. I suspect the former.

Since we have moved and I am not working it has been much harder to have my own life and look after me. I did not realise how much I relyed on my friends, family and work and not on him. He is loving having me relying on him more (so he says) I am not! What it has meant is that he has no access to the home computer so I have not had to monitor. He has his work computer and phone but I do not have the passwords or access to these and dont want to. If he is stupid enough to use them for his addiction (and he is and has in the past) then his employer will deal with him not me and we have discussed these consequences... doesnt make any difference I know.

What I have been able to do is concentrate on me for a few weeks and now when I get another job I will build a life of my own intentionally. I know he will not like this and I know in the past he has accused me of being too independent - almost accusing me of making him behave this way ('I dont feel you need me enough'???)I now realise my inclination is to listen to him and feel guilty... I am hoping to have the strength not to do that any more.

Someone said that monitoring is an addiction of its own and they are right. I have felt far healthier since I have been able to step away fron the computer!

Thanks everyone for all the sense you speak.


Me BS 48
Him WS 53 (Although he never admits to more than 49 on AFF etc..)Are they blind these people???
No children
Together 9 years
DDay #1 six months in
DDay #2 six months later
DDay #3 you get the picture

Posts: 22 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: UK
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, May 19th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm with you, Bird!

You are right that as long as I'm monitoring just for information (to verify what is real and what are lies), it doesn't matter whether I do it every day or once a week.

I have my IC/CSAT appointment tomorrow morning, so I'm going to discuss it with her as well. It's SOOOO hard to balance detaching and remaining supportive/emotionally involved!!!


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
NeedingGodsHelp
♀ Member
Member # 23580
Default  Posted: 9:54 PM, May 19th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted this in the general forum, but I thought I might need some advice from those who are familair wiht SA. My WH is not diagnosed with SA, but from reading the posts here, I suspect that he is.
*******************************

I am reluctant to talk with this about anyone in "real" life, as I am aware of the devasting effect even suspicions can have.

Let me preface by saying I would never imagine in a million years, my WH doing anything to hurt a child. That being said, I also realize that I don't know who my WH is right now. He has been down the slippery slope from porn to adultery... and I never imagined he would be unfaithful to me.

The story-
He is softball coach to my DD13 team. He has said things which seem like flirting to some of the girls, but he has never really been good with boundaries and such.
Things like - "Your makeup looks pretty, did you do that for me?" and "If I was 12 years old, I would date someone like you."

He denies saying any of that.

This past weekend, after he showed up here to see the kids drunk and showed his ass... he went bowling with the other team coach, his daughter, and his daughter's friend (who is also on the team). This is a girl he has obviously singled out as a favorite on the team. This girl also lost her father 2 years ago and has an alocoholic step-father she doens't particularly like... just giving the little girl's state of mind for male attention.

So, I think it is inappropriate that he went bowling with them and dind't invite DD13. Then, the next morning, one of the girls tells another teammate that he called the other coaches house and asked to talk to his "girlfriend" and asked said he had a good time on their date and asked if she had a good time. (Keep in mind this information is coming from 12 year old girls).

There was a game that morning, and time where the team and parents were sitting around in a field. I was not there. Another parent told me that WH and the same girl were chasing eachother and wrestling for at least 30 minutes, like he was a 12 year old. He was uninterested in the other adults and focused on this girl.

So, my questions is... am I being overly paranoid, because 1) I was molested as a child and 2) I am not inclined to see the best in WH anymore. Or, do I have something to be concerned about?

If I do have justified concerned... what do I do about it? WH will obviously not listen to anything I have to say. And talking to the girl's mom is really not an option, as she is a real cheerleader for my WH as a coach and even saw him out cheating and didn't tell me. I tend to think she wouldn't believe me and would think I am just being a crazy BS.

I am so worried for my WH and for this girl. Please give me some advice! I don't know what to do!!!


BS: me 33
WH: him 33
Married almost 9 yrs, together (off-and-on) 18.5 years
4 kids: 1 mine & 3 ours
DD#1: 2/12/2009 (EA#1)
DD#2: 2/26/2009 (EA/PA w/ tramp#2 - since July 2008)
Status: D 5/2010, Standing, WH living with OW, D filed 4/28/09)

Posts: 440 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: Climbing out of hell...
Silla
♀ New Member
Member # 23443
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, May 19th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK Bird.
My SA works from home, I have complete access to his email and his computer. At the beginning I spent hours and hours everyday reading his old and current emails of many years. There wasnít any in there b/c he never used his email to contact anyone. He destroyed most of his porn library and history before I got to it.

Now I probably check his computer and his email twice a week. I also check his bank statement regularly to make sure he is not spending money that we both donít approve of. Sometimes I do this in front of him, and I tell him I am doing it to protect myself and my family, he doesnít mind.

When I checked the past 9yrs bank statement, he withdrew cash weekly and used his credit card for every big or small household expenses he had. If I had checked those statements at that time, I would have realized there was something wrong with his spending habit but I never checked which I regret a lot for being too naive.

From now on I will check his computer every two weeks; this will give me a long break in between and less feeling of anxiety and stress.
I am grateful for SI and especially this group for all the wonderful support I am getting, this is the place where I feel very comfortable to share my situation.
Silla


Posts: 30 | Registered: Mar 2009
Silla
♀ New Member
Member # 23443
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, May 19th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear NeedingGodsHelp.
This is very diffiult situation you are dealing with, not only this involves other person but the other person is a child.

From my experience, if you strongly sense something is wwrong, then I will say that it is very likely it is wrong. Even the flerting part of it is wrong and he should be stopped.
Silla


Posts: 30 | Registered: Mar 2009
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 6:18 AM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NeedingGodsHelp:

It's DEFINITELY inappropriate (at the very least). Grown men just DON'T flirt (or wrestle) with 12-year olds. I'd say it's a HUGE red flag. (And I've never been sexually abused).

What to do about it? I have no idea. My first thought is that he should resign as coach, but he'd obviously have to agree with that (which I'm sure he won't). And even if he DOES resign, will he focus his attention in another manner? I just have no idea. It's sad that I think the only way to stop him is if he gets busted by doing something more -- but that means a child gets hurt.

I'm not familiar with your story, so I can't say whether or not he's a sex addict, but he's definitely got pedophilic tendencies, which is scary as hell.

Hopefully SOMEONE will have advice for you. I can just offer huge ((((((((((HUGS))))))) and prayers!


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
watchingU
♀ Member
Member # 22144
Default  Posted: 6:23 AM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can R work when the WS won't come clean with all the facts. I know my WH has had a couple of sex encounters with other women. He admitted to this. But he minimized, you know, he didn't finish, got scared and left and the other one was a BJ from our skanky next door neighbor and it was a 'guy thing', spur of the moment opportunity, he was weak etc. But, after two years of trickle truth, I found he had been using chat rooms for eight years. He claims they were all EA's. I've heard rumors that everyone but me knew he was a serial cheater. He says he only talked/flirted with others. We are in IC now, and I've been advised he may be a SA. I desperately want to know the full extent of his acting out. He denies anything but the things I can prove. My gut says the things I can prove are the tip of the iceberg. But he will never tell me. Because of this I hate him. He gets very angry at me because I won't move on and get over it, since, as he says, it was all in the past and he isn't doing it now.
So I am asking, how do you find peace in your life with this hanging over your head. I want to just disappear off the face of the earth. After 40 years, our lives are so entangled that leaving frightens me. I don't have anyone else. I constantly wish I were dead. I am wallowing in this sick environment and I'm scared. My whole world just fell apart and I feel like I'm living with a psychopath stranger. Those who have stayed, how do you do it???


BW me 60(naive until 3/30/07 Dday)
WH 60(PA w/SIL PA with neighbor, 100's of EAs,chat rooms, M 1969
Multiple Ddays over the past 4 yrs (about prior infidelities, not new ones) My Gut says WH Has cheated thruout M

Posts: 520 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: South
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NeedingGodsHelp:

Yuck, yuck and more yuck. I guess I am of the opinion that yes, you need to do something here to protect that child. So what is the most effective thing to do in order to protect her?

Talk to your H? I doubt it. He's not in a place where he will hear you constructively, so he may just ignore you. Also, if he is grooming this girl (or worse) bringing ot to his attention may not stop him, it may only make him be more careful and less conspicuous.

It looks like approaching her parents in this situation won't be particularly effective either.

It seems extreme, but I think a call to the appropriate CPS agency might be the best route. The complaint will only become public if it is found to be true. And while that might seem horrifying to face, it is more horrifying to face the idea of it being more than just bad boundaries and it going undetected.

Sweetie, I'm sorry you have to face this crap.

-JW


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
JustWow
♀ Member
Member # 19636
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

watchingU

Hi and welcome to another club you didn't want to be a part of. This is a great group of supportive people, so post here often.

Here is some good info pulled together by my personal YODA on this topic, read and educate yourself on SA. It is so important to understand what you're dealing with, first for responsible self-care, and second to understand your H and try to repair your M:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/journal/default.asp?UserID=10198&View10=True

Now, don't think I'm an egotistical schmoe quoting myelf, I'm just a horrible typist. Below are my thoughts on trying to R with an SA. The short answer is you can't until he is in recovery. The long answer follows:

Something that really helped me dealing with H before he got solidly into recovery was the idea that you cannot, CANNOT, have a healthy relationship without 2 healthy people. It just can't be done.
So my job for me during that time was to take the best care of myself as I could. That included detaching from him, a bit. I had to shelve my desire for R, as unfair as that was, the plain fact was he was not healthy enough to do R and do it right. So in the meantime, all the trying, crying, fighting, etc I had been doing, trying to get some empathy from this stone, trying to get him to own his shit, trying to get him to understand, was not only co-dependant, it was also futile.

The disease is an intimacy disorder. These guys run like hell from the stuff R requires. They have virtually no healthy coping skills for the smallest discomforts, never mind the really big stuff. Their minds work on distorted thinking, justifications, minimizing, manipulating and externalizing blame. Until they get treatment, that will be the picture of your R.

That's why you detach. You put some distance between you and them to prevent more damage to YOU. You put some distance there to protect your M from more harm. You take the very best care of your own self, and its hard to imagine how actively trying to have a relationship with an unhealthy person is taking good care of yourself.

Do you need to physically separate? I don't know. That depends on how much YOU trust YOU to take good care of yourself while living with him. We didn't separate. This is where knowing, defining and defending your boundaries to take care of you come in. And knowing yourself well enough to know what it is going to take to make you hold firm to them.

Detaching from the problem. Preventing more damage. Is this where you want to be? Probabl yes and no, if you're like me.

Yes, I wanted to separate myself from more damage, more hurt, more futile stupid attempts to R that got no where. But where I wanted to be wasn't detached, I wanted to be R'd.

That's where good self-care comes in. Don't be impressed with my wisdom here, folks, I stayed on the I-want-to-R-now hamster wheel for about 8 months while h was toying with recovery and going to a crappy IC and still using at his lowest level (scanning). During this time I think my relentless pursuit of R hurt us both. And discouraged the hell out of both of us, because we just weren't getting there. I just didn't have through my thick skull that we COULDN'T possibly get there at that time. I was a slow learner.

Your SA wont be ready for R till they can be honest. Chances are, they aren't even honest with themself, so they will feed you the same lies they feed themself. They will even lie to you when they know its a lie, because they don't believe you could ever love them if you knew the truth. They don't know how to love themself, they probably don't really know how to love you properly either.

Your SA needs to learn trust and trustworthiness. In something other than their acting out.

Your SA needs to learn transparency and accountability and empathy.

See, if you look at what the "pillars of R" are in the recon forum, and you look at what an SA is, you will see that they just don't go together. They can't.

Detaching is the answer, no matter what your SA does with regard to his disease. Until he gets stable enough in his recovery to tackle some of the relationship issues, you are going to drive both of you crazier beating your heads against a wall. If he never gets into recovery in earnest, responsible self-care says to put a good deal of distance between your heart and him.

And I know, it is not fair. It is a shitty hand to be dealt. It sucks. It blows. But it is what it is.

You can't R with an addict and have a healthy relationship. You can with a recovering one.

[This message edited by JustWow at 7:25 AM, May 20th (Wednesday)]


BW - Reconciling

edited for typos (I always have to!)


Posts: 3556 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Midwest
Eternaloptimist
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Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NeedingGod'sHelp--

What your husband is doing is inappropriate at the very least. I coach my son's soccer and am extremely aware that coaches MUST have boundaries in place because even the appearance of impropriety can create a huge issue. Is there a league official you can contact or a head coach? I know that I have someone to report to regarding my "coach" duties.
You could even contact them anonymously and say that you were disturbed by what you saw the game -- or you could simply report what you heard. The key is to get anyone in an official capacity to give your husband a very stern warning and let him know that this actions are being watched and monitored. I would guess that this would be taken very seriously -- as it should be. You could even suggest that they interview other parents to get their thoughts. I would imagine that most parents of a 13-year-old girl would find this quite inappropriate.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

watchingU

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. JustWow has given you lots of wonderful information.

Wishing you were dead is, unfortunately, a not uncommon feeling, but should nonetheless be paid serious attention to. Have you talked with an IC or your doctor? You might want to consider anti-depressants to help you cope with the overwhelming pain in the short term. This will get better, I promise. You don't deserve any of this and whether or not it's in the past or happened this morning, what these people have to realize is that, for you, it's happening RIGHT NOW. They've had weeks/months/years to process what they're doing. Some of us still don't (and never will) have the whole story. We're still trying to piece it together.
You need whatever you need -- and he needs to respect that and honor that, or his chances of recovery are slim to nil.
Right now, take care of yourself. What do YOU need to feel better (that you can conceivably control)? What can YOU do to feel like you're on solid ground, even if he isn't? Perhaps you can start putting things in place to give you a greater sense of security. Figure out your financials. Even meet with a lawyer...you don't have to follow through with anything but it can help knowing what your life would "look" like if you chose to leave.
Please hang in there. We know how you feel and many of us have moved through the worst of the pain.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Melissa21
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Member # 23555
Default  Posted: 12:10 PM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is what I posted on an Alanon forum and reposting here for any thoughts. When I say A I am refering to alcohlic that is how we shorten it there..

I've been doing pretty good since I left my A, but as days go by it gets harder and harder. I have no money, I don't have my own house, I have 2 kids to care for somehow on my own. All my stuff is in storage collecting dust. I have 5 weeks of one college class to finish online with no internet. And he calls to see them only when it's convenient for him then I have to see him because he is not taking them anywhere I am not because I do not trust him.

He is the A, the one who cheated and he gets off so much easier now that I left him. He doesn't have to buy food for us, he can leave his apartment whenever he choses to see which ever hoe he choses at the time and not have to worry about the kids at all. Why is that? It's not fair at all and I am already tired of it all. I didn't do anything wrong and I am the one that gets screwed in the end. It would be nice to have a couple hour break from the kids, but the only one offering to take them is my A and last time I let him see my son he passed out and I was only gone 10-20 minutes.

And everyone sits and tells me how they see him with all these different girls and they tell me how nasty they are and what not and it just hurts me to know that he decided to be with them over me.

When he calls on his breaks and I am with friends or not all alone all he says is where are you with my son, why don't you just come home because he doesn't like it I am finding other people to hang around. Not that we do anything besides sit around because I have 2 children I have to constantly watch.

He knows I can't stand my family and that is the only place I have to stay right now. I consider myself homeless, but since I have a place to sleep no one else seems to see this and they wont help me at all.

Im trusting my HP to help me get through this, but I don't even know where to begin to make my life better. Well I know it's better since Im not dealing with him daily, but at times I feel like I am just better off going back there and letting him pay the bills and what not. At least I would have a place to cal lhome and all my things.And my kids could sleep in their beds and I could sleep in my bed.

Thanks for listening I guess I just had to vent.


DDay March 22, 2009.


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: USA
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, May 20th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Melissa,

I'm very sorry for all that you're dealing with. But giving up your dignity for someone to pay the bills may feel better in the short term, but clearly it's not what you want for your life or you'd still be there. I'm sure that the hell you're going through now will pay off down the road when you've created your own home without the constant stress and indignity of living with an adultering alcoholic who shows no signs of changing.
Hang in there.You will survive this and you're showing your children how to respect themselves...even if they're not being treated with respect. I'm sure you're exhausted and defeated. But the day will come when you will look back and know that you made the right decision.
EO


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
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