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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts 3
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H2H,

In MASH, in the last chapter with by the couple who are CSATs who are also avrecovering SA & Co-Addict couple of many years, it is suggested that the transparency is a boundary.
Either there or somewhere else in the book I think the porn filters are a suggested boundary.

I said I wanted it as a boundary & he agreed. I know he can act out in may ways if he wants to. I haven't found any porn activity since he got into recovery. I haven't stopped checking up yet because I don't feel comfortable with that.

He lied to me again. I don't know if I have updated you guys on everything but the latest is that he went to a strip bar while drunk out of town. He said he never got a dance & had to go to take one of the guys he was entertaining. I don't know if he did or didn't but I don't believe anything he says. He wouldn't have told me that if I didn't find evidence.


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So now he admits someone paid for a dance for him but there was no physical contact. She didn't dance "on" him.

He says he told her he shouldn't be there.

He said he had to go because of peer pressure from his colleagues. That he is trying to change a lifestyle & sorry it isn't happening fast enough.

I don't know whether to enforce the consequences I would enforce for if he did get a contact dance because I have no proof. How does one handle that?

Whatever. So many lies. I wouldn't know.

Anyone can help on the porn filter advice? Got nothing from IT.


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want him to move out for now but I can't afford to pay all the rent on my own. Any suggestions? Should he still pay rent here?

Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
onceinlove
♀ Member
Member # 19874
Default  Posted: 4:26 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey everyone...just wanted to check in. It has been a long time since I have posted and I'm not up on everyone's stories but I wanted to say that things can and do get better if your SA is working a recovery program...

...and if you are working and S-Anon or similar program.

WH is coming up on a year of sobriety in SA and AA.

I am just now getting as serious about my emotional sobriety as I have been about my sobriety from alcohol and compulsive eating.

I should have more time to post these days and will share more of what I'm going through--and how WH and I are progressing. It has helped me so much to read what 7, BW, EO and others have shared about their own journeys...

hugs to all...


Him: WH 48
Me:BS 48
M: 17 years
D-Day: June 17, 2008
WH confessed to 6 APs over 6 yrs, including 2 LTAs; now in SA recovery--approaching 2.5 years of sobriety
Status: R


Posts: 78 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Southeast US
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Exclaimation  Posted: 4:58 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

KGT_123

Question regarding porn.

I have a keylogger on our home computer. I notice he goes to a website where you can buy porn DVD's on-line. He spent about 20 mintues on that site yesterday looking at new releases. I can also see that he hasn't purchased anything in a long time.

I don't know what to make of this. Would this be considered "acting out"?


YES! He is acting out and most likely masturbating while he's on the site. He's watching the previews and/or looking at the explicit photos. THIS IS ACTING OUT. He does not have to buy anything to be acting out. My rSA rarely paid for anything he just looked at anything and everything he could get for free.

I will not bring this up with him since I don't want him to know about the key logger.

Does he delete the websites from the history? If not, you don't have to let him know you have a keylogger. Say you saw it in the history and it's unacceptable. You need to set a boundary and a CONSEQUENCE on this.

I have asked him about this particular website and he said he just browses. I'm wondering what could he get out of browsing.

He is looking at PORN. Browsing is just semantics! He is looking and masturbating. He is a sex addict and he is actively using.

We have our second appointment with the CSAT on the 27th. Is this something I should bring up?

Yes and you should ask for advice on setting boundaries and consequences.

I started reading MASH last night and got through the first 50 pages. If I go by WH's actions, he fits the SA bill well. If I go by what he says, then SA is not the issue at hand. Personally, I think he is scared and afraid of the SA label. I brought up Love Addiction and told him what I learned about that and he feels that seems more appropriate for him, based on his feelings and what I told him of my research. I think he feels Love Addiction is "better" than SA. The fact is, its all addiction and needs to be treated similarly.

He is a sex addict. Period. (only my opinion of course since I'm not a professional)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sofresh

He has been being very honest. Yesterday he just told me he has masturbated about 3 times a day and watched porn frequently.. this is on-going in all of his relationships.

First off, that is full blown sex addiction. Secondly, why exactly is he telling you this? Are you his accountability partner? You shouldn't be.

What kills me is he says he's not bored of her and although I know he has maturbated in that relationship (if that's what you call it), because he called me from her house, he says he has not watched porn....he said when I asked, two weeks ago that that was something he had given up.

He's trying to make it sound like he's changing but he's not. He's an addict. Addicts lie.

He did it yesterday (found on Laptop) but maintains that it's because he can't sleep with me or her anymore, so it's an outlet.

He did it because he's a sex addict not in recovery.

Anyway although we are S-ing and now I, with this news, think it's best. I could use some condolences.

It is for the best unless he gets into therapy with a CSAT, gets sober and works a recovery program. That is not looking like it's going to happen. Do what you need to do for you. You still need to educate yourself on SA and what you drew you to him. If you don't you'll keep choosing addicts. I'm sorry things are not working out the way you'd like.

PS how many of your SAs are Sabs?

Mine is not. I know that it is listed as a main indicator or whatever but in my experience there are fewer who were SAB than not. My rSA has never met a fellow SA who was and he's been in several groups.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

iwillrecover

So now he admits someone paid for a dance for him but there was no physical contact. She didn't dance "on" him.

He should never have been there in the first place. PERIOD. SAs cannot go to strip clubs. EVER. Unless he is struck blind or something, right??? Whether there was "contact" or not means NOTHING. He is a sex addict who was in a strip club looking at tits and ass. Not ok.

He says he told her he shouldn't be there.

Well, whoopie! He does not get points for this and it's probably a LIE anyway. He shouldn't have been there at all.

He said he had to go because of peer pressure from his colleagues. That he is trying to change a lifestyle & sorry it isn't happening fast enough.

Bullshit. Tell him to put on his big boy pants and act like an adult. HE MADE A CHOICE. HE CHOSE TO GO THERE. No one put a gun to his head. He CHOSE his addiction.

I don't know whether to enforce the consequences I would enforce for if he did get a contact dance because I have no proof. How does one handle that?

ABSOLUTELY!!! Enforce your BOUNDARY! The boundary should be NO STRIP CLUBS EVER! PERIOD! Enforce your boundary.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi 7,

How are you? I'm not up to date on here. I'm so sorry for your loss.

I do have a boundary of no strip clubs but my boundary for sexual contact (which includes a dance with contact) is severe. I didn't make one for going to a club with no contact.

I think I will have to treat it as if he did have contact & ask him to move out but I can't afford the rent on my own. Do you have any other suggestions for consequences? Could I ask him to sleep on someone's couch for free & pay the rent here still? If he is willing to go to any lengths he would do that right?


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do have a boundary of no strip clubs

Ok, then, there should be a consequence for that, enforce it.

If you can't enforce the sexual contact boundary you need to at least enforce the one for going to strip clubs.

I understand not being able to leave him or ask him to leave because of financial reasons. Perhaps you need to rethink your consequences to allow for that.

If you can't afford to kick him out or leave and you're not going to follow through on your consequences, you've set the wrong consequences. You're just letting him know that you can't or won't defend your boundaries. That's why it is so important to know for certain what you will or will not do and be certain so that you're not making idle threats.
7

P.S. Thank you. I'm still struggling with the loss and dealing with other stress but overall I'm doing okay.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now I've told him it's over because I asked him to take me away this weekend if we could find a cheap option...like if we could drive somewhere & stay in someone's vacation home or something. If it really wasn't possible due to finances I would understand but he informed me that he is going to a cabin with the guy who bought him the dance at the strip club & told him that drinking is part of his job. His boss, the acoholic whose wife is leaving him. He always hated that my BF couldn't drink with him anymore.

I am so mad. I didn't want him going away without me period, but with that guy & when I wanted to go away I was livid & told him it is over.

I mean it.

I wanted us to work out but it isn't. He's not showing me enough recovery.
I don't know what I will do financially but if I didn't end it he would think he can abuse me & do whatever he wants.


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
Melissa21
♀ Member
Member # 23555
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I did a good thing by leaving, but seriously I can't stand staying with my sister for many reasons.

He keeps telling me I can come home. And I keep thinking more and more that it would be a good idea. He said he will still pay all the bills and we can just be friends.

Im thinking I need to sit down and write out all the pros and cons and then set boundaries talk it over with him and then see what happens. Im in no hurry to go back, but in a way im in a hurry to leave where I am at.

Any advice, thoughts ?

I have contacted MANY places and no luck since I have a couch to sleep on I am not homeless they all say and there are others in more need than me.

The county wont give me much money at all about 160 a month and low income housing is a waiting list not even worth waiting on it's soooo long. One is 8 years.

So I just feel so stuck.

it's not necessarily that I want to go back, but I want my neighbors back, my stuff, my bed, not to worry about paying bills. I have people there that will babysit if I can get a job. I don't drive so it would be much easier to just drop them off at daycare 10 feet away and then walk to work. I can probably get a job (low paying) within walking distance.

Other than that he is really sick from his drinking and I seriously think he will die soon. I almost had to call an ambulance the other night he was curled up on the floor could hardly breathe and his side hurt him REALLY bad. It just keeps getting worse. It hurt when If irst met him 3 years ago and it's not going away. He is just afraid to see a doctor.

So for now this is what I am thinking about if I should or not. What is best for me and my kids.

I attend alanon and they wont give me advice, but I would like some advice here!! Or anything you have to offer to tell me!


DDay March 22, 2009.


Posts: 151 | Registered: Apr 2009 | From: USA
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 8:53 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs - it is great to see you back here a bit--I know you are going thru a lot right now!

Melissa - You will feel better in the long run. I too split with my SAh because he would not go into recovery. He is making 6 figures, living in a condo on the beach, and I am now in a tiny dump of a house with 3 kids and a part-time job, stressing on how to make ends meet. It isn't easy, but I am happier. I no longer have to worry or deal with his lies and manipulations.

broken - I went to COSA. I did like it, and it was helpful. The people there were wonderful, and very supportive, and some of them were quite experienced in dealing with this stuff.

sofresh - I'm so sorry your SAh is just not getting it.

I'm sure he is thinking she has cured him,
Yeah, I believe mine feels cured with every new relationship he starts, because for a time, he gets excited enough by the new woman in his life that he doesn't act out for a time, but, sooner or later, he goes back to it, always, because, it is an addiction! He is not taking responsibility for his own problems, and looking for others to fix them for him.

sofresh - My SAh was SAb. He got a double hit as a child. Sab by the kid next door, and his dad was also a SA, bad, and exposed him to porn and adult behaviors at a very early age. It is all he knows. He thought it was normal stuff growing up, and now that he has found out it isn't really accepted in "polite" society, he just hides it. Instead of trying to do something about it. I think, he probably figures he is too far gone to be fixed.

Iwillrecover - I am sorry your H is still acting out. It is really hard when you are stuck with financial problems. I am going back to school, so I can support my family, because I don't think I could survive if I had to just suck up his addiction and sweep it under the rug, so I could stay with him because I can't afford to leave. It would destroy my soul. And mine has no intention of ever getting help or even facing his problem.

It is really hard to figure out how your H can justify going away for the weekend with the guy that got him into so much trouble in the first place, he is in bad company, and I would guess there will be a bit of acting out on his trip.

Have you started detaching? Are you taking care of yourself some, and trying to separate emotionally from your H?


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, May 21st (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NA,

He just told me he is not going to go because he doesn't want to lose me.

I told him that he might as well go if he doesn't get more serious with his recovery. He has been going to meetings, group & reading the literature but still went to the strip club & lied about it so now that he is not taking the trip I will not leave him but I will have to set some boundaries for the behavior.

I will be hurting myself financially to have him move out so maybe I could have him go to 30 meetings in 30 days, call a sponsor every day & start the steps. I can't tell him how to work his program but I can do that as a consequence. I met a girl at group who has meeting attendance or going into inpatient treatment as a consequence.


Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
Silla
♀ New Member
Member # 23443
Default  Posted: 1:04 AM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Iwillrecover. I will share how boundaries are important to me.

Before the discovery, I have always had my boundaries in my marriage, infidelity was not acceptable at all, I have always told my H that I will divorce him if he ever have sex with another person. That is exactly what I wonted to do after I found out about his acting out, but then I learned about this disease so I stayed for different reason but mainly because he is sick and he is 100% willing to get better, at least that is what him and his therapist told me.
At he beginning I told him that I didnít care much about porn, but any sex with another person would end our relationship. What I meant was I didnít want him to watch porn but if he slips I expected him to be honest about it and we will talk about it. Well, 3months later not only that I saw him watching a soft porn on TV but he also denied he ever watched any.


The fact that he lied to me made me very upset and hopeless about the future, his excuse was that he didnít think he really crossed the boundaries. To me he crossed the boundaries of trust again. So I set my boundaries again, except this time I made it clear to him and myself of what the consequence of his acting out will be. I defined acting out as all the things that he does to satisfy his sexual desire without my awareness. Any PA would lead to automatic divorce, any other type of acting out if he doesnít tell me or his sponsor right away ,then we will be physically separated and I will take it from there.

If he canít share it with me then he is crossing our boundaries, if it is not ok with me then he is acting out. If he goes to strip club without my approval( I canít imagine approving that now) then he is acting out weather he does anything or not. If for any reason I believe his behavior was inappropriate and bothersome, then he is acting out. If he gives in to pear pressure and does something, which becomes his choice, then he is responsible for his choice and the consequence that follows it.

I feel the boundaries are like my house door, and I am the door keeper. I will let him in when I feel he is not going to hurt me and I will close the door on him when I think he is going to hurt me. It sounds weird but this is the only way I can justify to myself my sacrifice and commitment to this marriage. And God help me my boundaries are realistic.

Silla


Posts: 30 | Registered: Mar 2009
Silla
♀ New Member
Member # 23443
Default  Posted: 1:23 AM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question about CSAT.
I have only seen 3 CSATs , I felt they spent too much time telling me a stories about other BS or SA experiences. Everytime I express my feelings they would justify my feelings using other BS experience as example.
Silla

Posts: 30 | Registered: Mar 2009
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay. There is a thread out there about NPD's, but, one poster left an article about emotional abuse. I have read in the past a lot of this going on, and want to make some of the newer people aware; one excerpt from it is:

Crazy making - saying one thing and later assuring you they did not say it.If you find yourself in a relationship where you figure you should start keeping a log of whatís been said because you are beginning to question your own sanity --You are experiencing emotional manipulation. An emotional manipulator is an expert in turning things around, rationalizing, justifying and explaining things away. They can lie so smoothly that you can sit looking at black and theyíll call it white - and argue so persuasively that you begin to doubt your very senses. Over a period of time this is so insidious and eroding it can literally alter your sense of reality

Had to put that thread in, because my STBXH did a lot of that.

If you want a closer look at thread, and more info on emotional abuse, it is :

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=296543&AP=21&HL=20849


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
hoping2heal
♀ Member
Member # 16738
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, NA, for that info on emotional abuse. That's exactly what my SAH does and the biggest damage it does to me is makes me question my own reality. I'm working on MY issues and learning to verify my own reality regardless to what he says/does. I need to learn to trust MYSELF again and not fall for his justifications/rationalizations/lies.

KGT - re: looking at DVDs for sale: My SAH does a similar thing. That's how they justify to themselves that they are not doing anything bad. By making it "innocent". Mine found (by accident) when he went to a site for bittorrents (downloading Yo Gabba Gabba for our little ones), that the bittorrent site had ads on either side with pornographic pictures, videos, ads, etc.... So he goes to the "innocent" bittorrent site and all he does is look at the pictures without clicking on anything or watching the videos. Seems innocent, but it's his way of acting out.


BS (me) - 38
FWH - 38
4 kids
'98 - PA/EA resulted in us separating
'06 - discovered he'd joined 6 married dating websites
'07 - discovered EA
'09 - FWH admits he's a sex addict -- now working on recovery!

Posts: 1762 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: Central Florida
KGT_123
♀ Member
Member # 17881
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you 7 and H2H. I appreciate your feedback.

I feel so lost in all this. I don't really know what to do. I am at the very beginning of all this where he hasn't even been diagnosed yet. The MASH book tells me to take care of myself but I'm not even sure how to do that. I run around all day every day either (1) being at work and trying to get my job done or (2) taking care of my daughter or (3) taking care of house stuff or home errands.

What does taking care of myself mean? I am getting a manicure and pedicure on my way home from work today but thats only because I have a wedding to go to tomorrow. Its not something I am looking forward to or anything like that.

I get up and shower and do my hair everyday. I buy nice clothes and necessities for myself. I keep in touch with my girlfriends and we still get together at minimum of once per week for girls night. Most weeks I will see them even more than that.

So, am I taking care of myself? I guess I just don't know what that means.


Me - BW (35)
Him - WH (41)
One Little Peanut - 2 years old
1-21-08: D-Day 1 - OW1
3-5-08: D-Day 2 - OW2
12-5-08: FULL DISCLOSURE from 1&2
4-23-09: Found WH trolling on Ashley Madison
4-29-09: D-Day 3

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: NYC / Long Island
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Taking care of yourself:

Minimum standards:
1. Make sure you eat healthy
2. Get some exercise in
3. Get enough sleep
4. Find a support group for your emotional needs
5. Schedule something fun for yourself, that you enjoy and look forward to, at least 2 to 3 times per week.

Those are just minimum basics for taking care of yourself (IMO!)

Other good ways to take care of yourself, and equally important: make sure that your needs don't get squashed while you are caretaking everyone else. IMPORTANT--FOR MOST OF US CODEPENDENT NURTURING CAREGIVING MARTYRS!!!!

A lot of us tend to give everything we have to the ones we love, and leave nothing over for ourselves. KGT - it is good that you take time to see friends, that is a very good thing, and a wonderful way to take care of some of your needs.

I am taking care of myself right now, by going back to school for a degree in a field I am very interested in, by jogging, by trying to limit junkfood, by buying a used drum set and beating on them when I have a few minutes for fun, by listening to MY music, because I like MY music, and not listening to anyone else tell me what awful music it is (yep, that would be STBXH).

It basically means, figure out who you are, what you want out of life, and what your needs are, and find a way to get those needs met.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14900 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Katty
♀ New Member
Member # 23231
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Taking care of myself means walking by the sea and not thinking of anything but me. It has taken me along time to realise that what I used to think of as looking after myself was making myself look good for others (manicure/pedicure buying clothes) or a retail fix - always short term.

I recognise so much of what people are saying here it has taken me months to work this out for myself. The advice has been wonderful I guess I am just a slow learner!


Me BS 48
Him WS 53 (Although he never admits to more than 49 on AFF etc..)Are they blind these people???
No children
Together 9 years
DDay #1 six months in
DDay #2 six months later
DDay #3 you get the picture

Posts: 22 | Registered: Mar 2009 | From: UK
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 2:05 PM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I told a friend what I've been dealing with (the infidelity) a month or so ago. She asked me what I was doing for "self-care". I looked at her and realized that I didn't really know what "self-care" meant. I, too, take 'care' of myself in that I always make sure I look good, but, as someone else pointed out, that's tending to my ego, not my soul.
Self-care has always felt selfish to me -- I learned my lessons well as child of alcoholics. Taking care of everyone else was my job.
Now, if it feels selfish (ie. reading a magazine instead of doing a puzzle with my 6-year-old) I try and get over the guilt (which is EXCRUCIATING) and compromise. It's really, really hard. I get so disappointed in myself if I'm not all things to all people.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
Iwillrecover
♀ Member
Member # 22329
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, May 22nd (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I booked & agreed to 4 IC appointments but it's not self care in that I cannot afford it. He can't either so if I wanna go I've got to go into more debt on my credit card cos his are maxed out.

Posts: 235 | Registered: Jan 2009
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