I plan on checking that book out. Sorry to hear that things have been rough.
He's spiraling downward and it's becoming VERY difficult for me to live with.
Feel free to share or pm about what is going on.
This all sucks
I sent my H an email last night. I told him that as much as I'd like to move forward in couple's recovery, that I could no longer ignore my inner voice that is now SCREAMING there is more to this story! That in the very same way he is adamant that there is nothing more to tell -- that he fit 10 years of lies in a two page Disclosure Letter, I'm also very adamant in my belief that he is holding back.
I explained that I'd hoped the mediated Disclosure would of brought me clarity and maybe inspire me to committ to a long recovery, but sadly that didn't happen. I told him that this life of lies was toxic and I want out. I asked that we meet to discuss a permanent separation.
His response last night "I really believed that you would give more time in the healing process before making this life changing decision. BTW, I cannot keep telling you that I'm not holding back anymore. I'm at my bottom & at this point have no reason to hide anything especially if were getting a divorce. This is just how I feel & do not intended to be defensive, sarcastic, or disresptful. I,m going to relay this to my therapist so I can seek help."
His response this morning. "I can't stop thinking about your message. I acknowledge your pain, dismay, & uncertainity of recovery, but I promise to do all I can & to the best of my ability to explain, prove, that I have the ability to disclose anything in the past 10 years that I havent so far. I intend to think alone for a while & try to find anything that might be more of a help to you & me in my life of lies. I love you & the kids too much to go down without a fight, & not try to reconcile our lives. Please take all the time you need. If its alright with you, I would like to schedule another couples therapy since the last one was not successful."
Is this what the rest of my life is going to be like if I chose to stay with this addict? In the fist message he's still sticking to his story and in the second he concedes there might be more. I'm sick of this roller coaster of emotions! I'm angry that after a VERY expensive rehab treatment, he still hasn't realized that all I need is honesty! Where are his morals? I'm so confused.
I am new to this whole SA thing. My WH is seeking counselling for his possible addiction, and I have so many fears and concerns. I just don't even know where to start... My first question would be.... as with all addictions, should I expect relapses or "falling off the wagon" on his road to recovery? Am I crazy for expecting such things, and knowing that I will likely forgive him even then?
Well, IMVHO, recovery is a life-long journey.
I expect my husband will have a slip. I define a slip as a one time occurance of acting out. We have 50 years of living left and my husband is human.
My husband has been sober for almost 2.5 years. He hasn't slipped. I have no boundaries in place for a slip. But I think visiting a CSAT would likely be it.
So, it IS possible to recover without slipping. It's not the norm, but possible.
I define relapse as going back to daily acting out or escalation of the addiction. My personal boundaries are such that if my husband relapses, our marriage is over. I don't have the stamina to do recovery again. I also won't keep my kids in a dysfunctional household.
Have you educated yourself on the addiction? My first step would be learning all about addictions and making some boundaries about what behavior you find acceptable. No one can decide this for you.
You also might find it helpful to use a CSAT therapist yourself. My CSAT made my whole life make sense in an hour. My other therapists couldn't do that after working together for years.
Also-forgiveness is something we do for ourselves-not for the other party. So, it doesn't seem crazy to me that you can forgive your WH for whatever he has done.
They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!
SAH still has not been officially diagnosed as SA (as far as we know he only looks at porn every 4-5 days for less than 10 minutes, so even though he hasn't stopped looking at porn, they are hesitant to call it an "addiction". But he DEFINITELY has an addictive personality and all the problems that go with it).
Since finding out our insurance covered almost none of the cost of the CSAT, he's been spiraling down (in behaviors, not porn-viewing). Being nasty, mean, degrading to me; snapping at the kids; rationalizing/justifying/blameshifting bad behaviors. It's AMAZING how he twists things around. He absolutely CANNOT see himself as to blame or doing something wrong. I always get, "Ok, I shouldn't have acted like that BUT..." and the "but" is always followed by making me at fault. He's even convinced himself that I tricked him into getting me pregnant (with our twins, now 2), even though HE was in charge of birth control!!
I can now see his behaviors for what they are and why he acts the way he does and it's sad because he truly cannot help it, but DAMN, it's hard to live with!
He's remorseful,desparate to save our marriage. In IC, 12 step pr ogram. I can see him working the program.
I'm doing my best to survive. I've read all of the books, MASH, P.Carnes, till my mind is mush. In IC, active in SANON group.
I can't find a way to get my head around all of this. How do you separate the man from the addiction?
I know that at his core, my H is a good man, but...
I'm trying to R for all of the reasons we all are, love, kids, age, finances,ect... but damn, this is so overwhelming, what do they expect of us and how do we come to terms with all that has happened in the life that we thought was so great?
I've been back and forth, R-D, my mind is mush. Where do we go from here and save our sanity?
For me, it was easier to see that my husband just had really poor coping mechanisms because I did as well. I was self injuring by the time I was an early teen. The behavior didn't actually stop until about a year ago. Often the bouts of self injury would come with lots of pent up rage-yelling, screaming, what have you.
I'm really not a raging/raving luntic, though I've certainly acted like it. I just had some pretty messed up coping strategies.
I know that not everyone who marries an addict is broken, just as the addict is. In my case though, I entered our marriage just as emotionally stunted and broken as my husband.
Now, I don't get why my husband chose to self medicate. I could never do that. But I'm sure he doesn't get why I ended up self injuring either. I don't think he would have chose that as a coping strategy.
During the message, my SAh was very moved by many things that hit him right where he lives. He squeezed my arm and whispered that he loved me. I responded, "I know." and squeezed his arm. I could not say 'I love you, too' back. Because I don't.
I love him like the best friend I ever had or a brother, but I do not love him as a wife should love her husband.
My IC laid it out very well at the last session before the wedding. I have choices. These include:
1. I could stay in this marriage where I do not love him as I should. I would accept he is an SA, and concentrate on my own growth, including spiritual growth.
2. I could institute a trial separation. This may be an in-house one or one in which we live in separate places.
3. I could divorce him.
My SAh is remorseful, but he is not seeking sobriety as he should. He really believes he can do it on his own. I know, as all of you do, he cannot. There are not the resources in this small city that he needs, but there is enough that he could work on his SA. This is not an excuse, IMO.
I am spending the summer continuing to work on myself, most paramount my relationship with my Lord, which to me is essential. I will also consider my options. I want to make the right decision. I am leaning towards separation, because I think it's the most kind to both him and I. I am spending 10 days, a couple thousand miles away, at a quiet cabin with my sisters in August. That will help me immensely to consider the options in a wise manner.
I'm done. My poor girls...
I'm so sorry.
I'm so sorry. But you've got to take care of yourself and your girls. They'll be fine and in fact will be better off than watching an unhealthy relationship and assuming that's what an adult relationship looks like.
I'm also sorry for what you're going through. Again, figure out what you need to do to take care of yourself and remove yourself from the craziness. You are NOT crazy, the situation is. And the situation is something you can remove yourself from -- whether emotionally or physically.
Take care everyone. I'm really busy these days but I try and check my PMs regularly.
Recovery Nation is great. It helped me SO much.
I know that it would wonderful to think that by seeing the brochure or questionaire he would read it and see the light. I am sure many a partner has done the same with a 12-Step brochure or 10.
I think what I am getting at is that if he's currently seeking recovery -then absolutely share it with him. I did that with my husband and he's grateful. If he's NOT actively seeing recovery then it's likely to fall on deaf ears. He has to know it, own it and want to recover.
[This message edited by 2br02b at 6:51 PM, July 1st (Wednesday)]
I thought I was a fool for no-one
Oh baby I'm a fool for you
You're the queen of the superficial
And how long before you tell the truth
Has the MC given a reason as to why he won't refer him to a CSAT???
Have you told the MC EVERYTHING your spouse has done? You need to write out a full accounting of everything you know and give the MC information on SA. If the MC still cannot pull his/her head of his/her ass and see that your husband is a SA, fire the MC on the spot and tell your husband that you're setting a boundary. Either he chooses to go to see a CSAT with you or... (you'll have to set your own consequence I can't do that for you.)
When setting a consequence it is paramount that it is something that you will not hesitate to follow through on!!! DO NOT SAY YOU ARE GOING TO DIVORCE (or leave or separate) UNLESS YOU ARE 150% COMMITTED TO DOING SO AND WILL ACTUALLY DO IT!!! Do NOT make threats. That is manipulation not healthy boundaries and consequences.
I'm so sad...I've been on this road for 2 1/2 years now...I kicked him out AGAIN, of course...
HOW the feck can a man have a "relationship" w/ a hooker/massage girl who barely speaks English?!?
Well, cuz then it's free! He also said tonight that he's also been going to other massage places acting out...
can't stop...is really sick..needs in-patient/stop working & he can't aford it...Even though he's been making some strides in recovery...& says he loves me...I think he's NPD...
I'm just DONE...but I'm financially dependent...he has no savings/$$$/life insurance--nothing...
I just wanna die....
I know it feels hopeless right now but the operant phrase is "right now". It will get better. You're a smart, resourceful woman who can no doubt find a way to support your kids. Could you babysit other kids as well to bring in some money? I can't recall their ages (they're young, aren't they?), but will they be in school or preschool in the fall? Sit down and see if you can come up with a plan -- where do you want to be a year from you, two years from now. Then focus on that. You'll get there. I know you will.
The wedding sounds beautiful. I, too, was at a wedding on the weekend -- friends who've been together since they were 20 (they're 39 now) and they so clearly adore each other and are so respectful with each other. They make you feel good just being around them.