You don't say anything to him other than to repeat that you're taking responsibility for yourself and becoming healthier in your relationships...and what he chooses to do is exactly that -- his choice. Repeat as often as necessary. It's impossible to really fight "against" that because you're not fighting. Just say it until you sound like a broken record. You simply can NOT make him admit to an addiction and the more you try, the more you're giving him something to resist and allowing him to rationalize/justify his behavior and distract himself from his own actions/feelings.
All you can do is what you're doing -- taking responsibility for yourself, which is what all healthy adults do.
Hang in there...
Here is a copy of an interview of Rick Reynolds who runs an affair recovery center in TX and is a FWS. It is really long and I haven't finished reading it yet, but found it to be insightful.
It's in pdf format:
Here is the link to the center's website:
I think you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that you've spent your life caring for others. I would hazard a guess that most of us have done exactly the same thing. Addicts don't find us by accident!!
So this is your chance to heal that part of you, which has not served you well (though it may have been a survival instinct at some point in time).
re. talking to an MC: I think you can certainly offer up your reasons why you think your spouse is SA. There's little point in MC, however, until your spouse can acknowledge the role his actions have played in your marriage. I'm sorry -- with all the new postings, I'm not familiar with your story. But if he's not taking responsibility, then counselling is useless. You'll be beating your head against a brick wall (incidentially, a favorite pastime of we co-dependents )
Good luck. I know how frustrating this is. But your spouse is far more likely to face his own demons when he's left to them...and not given the distraction of someone trying to force him to.
YES I was untrusting and insecure. He said I had issues with trust and we needed to see a counselor for that. So we went and he only attended 4 sessions. The counselor was one I had seen during my first divorce(yup another addict only alcohol) She told me that my H was disingenuine and that he probably did do something inappropriate. He stopped going saying her intention was to end our marriage.
So we swept it under the rug. He did promise never to do the dating sites without me present to do it with him. A compromise from therapy. I knew something wasn't right with his stories, but I loved him. I had a newborn baby and my older daughter which he is wonderful with. I never could fully trust him after this. I constantly worried when he would go out with friends, i'd ask him questions...He would get angry, storm out of the house. deny deny deny. He even told the first counselor that he has never been unfaithful to me. swore on our kids lives even.
Fast forward 3 years ago. A former co worker of mine and wife to his ex boss sees me grocery shopping. I was not allowed by my H to have contact with her because "she was poisonous to our marriage and not a true friend to me and could not be trusted.". I gave up this friendship because this woman would tell me things that she heard from her husband that my WS was doing. IE flirting, haging out with, emailing etc..I AGREED TO THIS!!!! CODEPENDENT all the way. She tells me in the grocery store parking lot that she has proof he cheated on me. I tell her Stop, I want my marriage, i need my family. I dont want to know. Sweep under the carpet more.
Husband cannot keep a job down. He gets severly depressed and suicidal. He wont go to counseling or dr for meds, nothing. He spends a year on my couch not moving. I spend the year working my ASS off to keep our house and support our family. I ask him straight out one day, are u doing those sites again? He says yes. I'M pissed. I tell him since i'm the only one working we dont need the extra bill for the internet. I take out the internet from our home.
He eventually gets a job and we fast forward to this last September(fall).I think we are doing better with our marriage, i put the internet back in the house for him.(ENABLING) He gets very depressed again. Becomes suicidal. this time he has a plan. he tells me the only reason he did not hang himself was that he was watching our son for part of the day. This is due to him being laid off from his job, feeling worthless etc..He sees DR. gets prozac. Feels good.
November,gets a job at a gas station working over nights. it is all he find with this rotten economy. I tell him this is going to be very hard for us. we wont see each other. He says we are strong enough to deal with this. He starts his weird behavior again on the computer. I mean closing out windows. deleting all history.I get suspicious but dont ask.dont want to rock the boat.
March, I come out 3am in the morning, I lose my shit. I say to him, who are u talking to on that computer now? why arent u in bed with me? I yell at him that this bs cant go on. He gets very angry and smashed the computer. I tell him i need that all of my work is on there, 7 years of work! Grants i had written, etc.. I cant get them back. He is outside now smashing it. I'm yelling, he then gets lighter fluid and burns it up. I lose my shit and tell him to get the hell out. i'm sick of his computer bs and if he wants out he can get out and do what the f he wants. Within an hour, i am begging him not to go. telling him how sorry i am. he tells me he cant live like this anymore with constant suspicion. He has no friends becasue i wont let him. He should be able to go out with friends and not be questioned. I'm evil!
We agree on counseling for guess what? my lack of trust in him and my problems with jealousy. I compromise with him and get him a suped up cell phone so I can prove to him that i can trust him. I agree to not ask questions about the cell like who is talking to. I agree to not see the bill even though its in my name. MC thinks this is a good idea. Asks me how I am doing. Am i checking it? at every session. I tell her no. I am really trying.
April, I get a text message from my WS that was meant for a girl named Mel. She is on facebook with him. I tell him i need to break my promise, who the hell is mel? He says he has mentioned her. he tells me she is a girl that hangs out with him at night at his job for a couple hours at a time. HUH? I think i would have remebered her or the fact that some girl i dont know is spending that much time with my husband. Apparently she is bipolar and has to be put inpatient. My WS was helping her do that. A few days later i ask how she is he tells me she is out and visiting him again. I ask how he knows and he says the discahrge planner from the hospital calls him. I said, wait a minute! I work in the medical field and this is not the norm unless that person is a natural support or there is a significant relationship with the person. i ask him to define his relationship. He says they are "just friends". I ask to meet her. I said if your just friends the kids and i should take her out to dinner. He refuses. We discuss it in counseling. MC says to me she does not buy this story and after hearing his history tells me she thinks he is bipolar and a sex addict. This is not in front of him. This is when he has left the room to go to the bathroom. she has not confronted him or brought this up to him yet.
Ok trying to tie this up quicker. all this leaves me so suspicious, I contact my former friend.(May) I meet her and her husband . I say tell me what proof u had that he cheated i need to know. They tell me that a couple weeks before our wedding he had cheated with a co worker. He went out with his friend Brian supposedly. He actually went out with a girl and they had sex. She had an open marriage and had threesomes, bondage all the alternative stuff that my WS had asked me about and I wont do. The woman had heard he was not having a bachelor party and wanted to give him a good time.I am crushed to hear this as I am pregnant with our son at this time and we had been living toegether for three years.
I confront him, he admits to it. He tells me he hid it from me because he knew i would not have married him. he wanted me to be his wife. So he married me knowing what he had done not even three weeks before we said our vows. He looked me in the eyes and said love honor cherish falsly. This is the worst part for me. i feel like i was tricked into marrying him. I feel betrayed that he lied to me for 5 years and all the time kept telling me I was unable to trust him. How dare he turn this shit around on me saying it was me with the problem. To make matters worse, I remarried him the end of april for our 5 year anniversary. i bought him a new ring with the inscription "I mess up, but I'll always love you". My D day was actually in the first part of May. I feel sick to death at commiting to him falsly twice!!!
U know the rest of the story. I cry my heart out, yell, scream, get angry, hate him. I bring this up in MC. She looks floored. She tells him that he did the right thing. I would not have married him, if i had known. She tells me that at least he loved you so much that he went to great lengths to hide it from you. WTF!!!I tell her, oh its ok to be betrayed for 5 years and lied to continuously.
I find this site and begin research. I get my own IC. I get a phone added to his account so i can see who he is texting. I research numbers, people. I start gathering evidence. I see he still talks with Mel. I catch him going to a web cam of a girl in california. I know he talks to many girls from facebook.I believe he has two profiles. I keep looking, trust but verify right? I am becoming so good at this PI stuff.
I have not confronted him yet about this Sexting stuff, but i will in time.He is in the fog I think. he lies to me constantly about how often he talks to mel. He lies about going to the sites. i grab his phone when he is in shower. i see he has gone to alt.com. he flat out lies about if he is going to sites. i ask him if he has a profile. He says no.I am fact gathering.
So that's my story up till now. I'm just trying to stay sane and learn everything i can. I am so thankful for everyone here. I have the book, not just friends, I am working on my codependence with my IC. I keep checking and gathering evidence of further lies and deception. I hate him and love him at the same time. some days are so horrible for me. I print out FAQ's from here and ask him to red them. He has not yet. I went to Dr. for wellbutrin. I am trying to focus at work but its a struggle. I am behind on my paperwork. I'm trying to take it day by day. I do research on sex addiction. I know he is one now. I;m not quit sure I can wrap my head around it yet. I'm trying that's all I can say.
Thanks for listening and for letting me tell my story.
[This message edited by sharonons at 10:58 AM, July 3rd (Friday)]
Thanks for telling your story -- it's hard to do, isn't it? But it's clear from your words that you're really starting to recognize that this is NOT your fault. All that insecurity and lack of trust was your instinct telling you this person could NOT be trusted. All along, you "knew" the truth, you just didn't want to admit it. Now you're ready. You know that you can trust yourself to take care of yourself and your kids. And that's your only job. Just keep yourself well and sane. Treat yourself with respect. Get a handle on your co-dependency issues and learn how to be in a healthy relationship with yourself first.
SAs (any addicts, really) are masters at blaming others...and we take it. A healthy person would realize these guys are full of shit and walk. But we know the dance -- our unhealthy moves mesh well with their unhealthy moves. But at a certain point -- and you're clearly there -- the dance hurts and we want to stop. We need to learn new steps. But unless they'll learn new steps with us, we need to learn to dance alone...for the time being. And that's okay.
Sharonons -- you're doing really well. You've been through a hell of a betrayal, but you've got yourself, your kids and a sense that life and marriage has got to be better than this.
Keep posting, keep learning...you'll get there.
My thought for all of us on this site??
" Be not afraid of changing slowly; be afraid only of standing still." —Chinese proverb
When we lost our son in October I had to have a D&C because my body couldn't figure out what to do on it's own. It's possible I was exposed to Hepatitis C during my surgery!!!! The hospital hired a junkie and turned her loose in a giant candy store.
"On Thursday, federal authorities filed criminal charges in U.S. District Court in Denver against Kristen Diane Parker, a former scrub technician at Rose Medical Center in Denver and Audubon Ambulatory Surgery Center in Colorado Springs. According to the criminal complaint, Parker – a former heroin addict – admitted swapping her own dirty syringes filled with saline solution for syringes filled with Fentanyl"
I pray you dodge this bullet.
I'm so sorry you've got this incredible anxiety on top of everything else. Hope you're okay... I'm thinking of you.
and on a practical note - can you get a copy of the police report to determine when this woman ran amok and maybe, hopefully, rule out exposure?
edited for typos (I always have to!)
can you get a copy of the police report to determine when this woman ran amok and maybe, hopefully, rule out exposure?
What is your CSAT's approach as far as transparency goes? Being that my Wh is a sex addict, there is alot of stuff that's he's done. I will say that my Wh has not crossed the line of having intercourse with anybody else but he's definately crossed the line many many many times with many OW.
So how much transparency is good? Our CSAT told me the first time we saw her that there are just things I don't need to know. She gave the example of knowing sexual positions (if my Wh had had sex with someone else) or trying to find out what he did to her etc... CSAT says that will not do me any good. Well my Wh didn't have intercourse but he'd sorta prowl. He'd get close to women (anywhere and everywhere) just to talk to them or to get a peek. Do I need to know each of these situations? I feel like I do. For my own damn sanity. I want to know who the hell I've been living with for the last 8 years but my Wh is now using CSAT's line of "it's only going to hurt me worse". I am very frustrated and pissed...
I just wanted to hear what other's CSATs approach was in transparency. Sexual addicts have a loooong history usually. So are they excluded from total complete transparency? I'm so confused. Thanks... I'll come back later, I promise.
They say "Love conquers all" Well, I am afraid they are WRONG!
Remain patient, don't judge and take care of yourself. The time will come when it comes. No sooner, no earlier.
I will now properly introduce myself. We've been married almost 8 years, no children although we tried for 5 years. We've had a rocky marriage since the beginning. I knew of my Wh "issues" but just thought they were normal men things and/or flirting. Also I was my Wh's 2nd lover in his life and I often thought that must be why he's so damn interested in women... because he missed out.
Well now that we are here today after him being physical with 1 OW and another disturbing non-physical incident with another... plus many many many crossing the line situations with many many many OW, we are trying to R. It's been tough and I'm trying and dealing with it the best I can. Honestly the words "sexual addiction" scare me. I told our CSAT that. She said she will work with me on that. I think I'm also in denial because sometimes I try to talk myself out of it... that he's not a sexual addict, he was just unhappy or stressed or whatever. But I think deep down I KNOW there is a serious issue and if it hadn't been finally addressed, I would had lost my Wh to this damn addiction. Sometimes I question myself why am I still here. Why am I waiting for HIM to get his mess together? Why should I put up with this? The only answer is because I love him. Sometimes I'm enraged at him but then other times I feel deep compassion for him. He's never been able to confront life problems and has always escaped. I just didn't know to what extreme and how often.
As I said before, we are working with a CSAT. We did see another counselor before but we both felt we needed a bit more structure. I found our current counselor who works by the Patrick Carnes method a couple of weeks ago. We are both reading the books and going by that.
Wh and I are both Christians and as you can imagine it's been very hard on me with my faith. I don't understand this and it's taken a toll on my faith. We are both committed though to try to make it through.
I've been reading here but again, it all scares me... Thanks again for your responses.
Welcome. I hope that, as you continue to post, this will feel less scary. You've got things well in hand, under the circumstances. It's a lot to absorb in the early days, though, like you, once I learned about sex addiction, suddenly all those things that had never made sense to me re. my husband, did make sense. Educating myself, posting here and learning from others...all helped me feel as though I can handle this, whatever the future brings.
Hang in there.