Yipee! Congrats! One step closer
I hav e been and still do look at tubal reversal procedures. It's complicated, but the only reason I got them tied was due to pressure from FWH and my mom. I mean we DID have 5 kids and FWH was VERY adamant he wanted no more kids ever!!
That was thw worst part of this.. I wanted more kids but had my tubes tied for HIM and then he went and had another baby. The fact that he and she had a girl, is just icing on the crap cake ya know....
Not to one up ya or anything but yeah.... she pumps for the baby and spilling her breast milk on myself, just flat skeeves me out LOL
I nursed all my kids, BM is no problem for me.. but HERS bothers me...
I don't feel weird in her house i've been there a few times, but her and FWH never DID anything there KWIM?
As for OW's family. The day after the baby was born i went and spent time with the baby OW and her mom and it was hard at first.. Ummm i dont' know how to explain it really... but when OW had to go to the bathroom, her mom came up to me and sat next to me on the bed and said.. There is no way i could do what you're doing and smiled really nicely at me... so I thought that was decent of her... OW's has no family in the area, so unless it's OC's birthday or something, we won't be seeing her family at the grocery store or anything like that.
I did meet the paternal grandmother of 2 of OW's 6 kids and paternal aunt. They kept praising me on what I was doing for OC, but all I wanted to do was just get away from them. Telling me I am their mother now, I just kept saying I am doing wat I think it right. I also met 2 of OW's children for the first time. That was really strange too, all I could remember was trying to get the OC to talk to their siblings but they wouldn't.
As for some of my H and OW's mutual friends, it was ackward at first, but I am ok with them, they did not know me. I still am careful about what I say to anyone associated with OW because it still got back to her.
[This message edited by BMC0415 at 4:54 PM, May 13th (Wednesday)]
My d-day was April 10 2009. The OW contacted me after she googled my H and found our wedding photographer – apparently she didn’t know he was married. She told me know that she dated my H for 4 months last year - from January 1 (yes, New Year's!) until the end of April. I honestly could not believe it - I had never suspected a thing and it seemed so completely uncharacteristic of my H - I figured it had to be a mistake. In her email she told me that she did not know that he was married and "if my H was anything like her ex he would deny everything" so she advised me to call her to get the details.
Some background on the timing of my H's affair... Not only the affair begin about 1 month after we ended marriage counseling (we were in counseling because my husband's partying ways were starting to wear considerably on the relationship) it also coincides exactly to when we began trying for a baby. In fact his affair began only a few days after we decided to "go for it". From Jan 08 - July 08 we had no luck on the baby-front and it soon became clear that we were dealing with fertility issues. We went through the tests and we eventually discovered we were dealing with male factor infertility (bad sperm morphology). The day that the OW contacted me was 4 days after I had gone through an IUI (artificial insemination with my H's sperm) and the same day I was going to sign a contract for 3 rounds of invitro fertilization (if the IUI didn't work). Oh - I should also mention that the affair also coincides perfectly with my last semester of grad school when I was stressed out beyond belief.
So back to d-day...I called her. It SUCKED - and she was annoying, she wanted to chat as if we were girlfriends or something and we had been wronged by the same man. I just wanted to the details - enough so that I could confront him. And, I also asked her to send me all their email correspondence in case divorce was in the cards. Then, at the end of the conversation, she told me the kicker … she had gotten pregnant and had his baby this January. I cannot even begin to describe the pain I felt hearing this. Not only am I completely devastated by the affair, but I feel like the only miracle sperm that my H had to offer he has squandered on someone else. I honestly feel like her baby should have been my baby. Had he been with me that night, perhaps I would've had a child by now. It feels as if the universe is conspiring against me - how can this be happening!?
I confronted my husband on the phone (he was about to get on a plane to come home from a business trip) and then waited 3 miserable hours for him to arrive back at our house. He confessed and was regretful - I got the first round of details of the affair. According to both the OW and my H the affair was pretty much physical - f*ck friends - she obviously didn't know much about him and he didn't really know anything about her. Even though the affair was long distance (she lives in LA we live in SF--thank god I am not going to see her in the grocery store), he described it as convenient - probably because it was easy to maintain his double life and emotional distance. The affair ended in May 08 because he was feeling guilty (so he says) and/or he was realizing that it/she wasn't worth it. The OW let him know that she was pregnant with OC in August 08 (OC conceived late April 08) and told him that she keeping it and that she didn't expect anything from him. In January 09 the kid was born and she contacted him again - this time asking for cash (at this point she didn't know he was married) because she had calculated her taxes wrong and needed to make a big tax payment.
So now we are about a month into this whole thing and my life is a mess. Paternity tests are pending but we are almost positive OC is my H’s. I have not told any friends or family about what has happened because the whole scandal of if affair+infertility+OC is just too much for me to deal with let alone confess to someone else. H contacted a lawyer to assist with all of the OC/paternity issues (nothing like spending $3k on legal fees and paternity testing in a recession!) Despite the unbelievable circumstances of my life - I truly and deeply love my H, and I know that he loves me. And now that his incredibly scandalous, big fat dirty secret has been exposed, he is showing an emotional honesty that I have never seen before. He has been forthcoming with all information (though there was a period of time week #2 when his frustration with all the questions peaked) and we are in marriage counseling. That said, I have read so many postings about 2nd & 3rd d-days, part of me is wondering if there have been other affairs. The porno that was playing constantly in my head for the first few weeks (thanks to the emails she forwarded ) has somewhat abated but it still flares up and I am forced to just sit with that pain until the visions fade--mental yoga. I am finally no longer a zombie at work - I was seriously worried I was going to lose my job because I couldn't focus for about 2 weeks.
The struggles we are faced with are immense:
* My husband does not want anything to do with the OC - he feels he had no emotional connection to the OW and therefore feels that he has no emotional connection with OC. This is horrible to say but OC is the unfortunate consequence of his “fling”. Despite her Feb request for $ the OW says that she is totally fine with him not being in the OC's life—and she has asked me to keep her and OC out of our situation. Part of me is incredibly happy about this, the other part of me is wondering "how can he turn his back on this kid?" And, if he and I ever did have a child, how could he love one and forsake the other? And how do I live this lie for the rest of my life – knowing that kid is out there?
* Even though she says she doesn’t want a penny, I am worried that CA will make him pay-up on CS which would be financially devastating to us (mortgage, student loans, and I would have to kiss IVF dreams goodbye if we ever reconciled) OW is financially stable but of course being a single mom ain’t easy.
* I’ve decided to put IVF on hold until we see if we can R – but making this U-turn at 36 after trying to conceive for 17 months is really, really difficult.
* If we stay together and are lucky enough to have children, what the hell do we tell them about the OC? Or do I wait for the OC to show up at my door in 18 years?
I am sorry for the long post--the story has so many twists and turns -- it is almost impossible to believe. Every day I am faced with a new state of being... sometimes I am crying constantly thinking that I will never get over this and that I have to leave ... other days, I feel strong and optimistic that we can survive this and that we have never been more honest with each other than we are right now (in the debris of our marriage), still other days seem dangerously close to normal and I am afraid that we have gotten lazy and have too easily slipped back into comfort.
Is there hope? Can a marriage survive this? Is there anyone out there whose H has given up parental rights to OC?
My H has contact and it is a source of continual negotiations, to say the least. So I have no advice about men who have given up their paternal rights. But I do know that CA is murder for child support--what did the lawyer say?
It's good advice to wait some months before any major decisions--and one of them is whether to continue with the IVF. Work on your marriage, talk and talk about the different options and scenarios (like you asked, do you wait til the OC is 18 and shows up??) Plus from what I've read, the OW often changes her mind after the reality of caring for a child alone sets in, and goes after CS anyway. So protect yourself as much as you can.
It's the mother of all roller coasters which doesn't quit for a long time--
Keep posting and take care of yourself.
To answer your questions, yes, yes, and yes.
There is absolutley hope and your marriage can survive if you and your H BOTH are willing to put in the HARD work it will need to happen. And yes my H is giving away his rights to OC. Unfortunately this can only happen if there is another man willing to take on the responsability for OC. The courts won't allow anyone to just give up thier rights, someone needs to be responsable for the OC. Luckily for us OW has married and her new H wants to adopt OC.
Please seek legal advice cause OW doesn't need to ask for CS to get it and even though she has said she doesn't want it she can change her mind at any time and she can get back CS from the time OC was born. You are wise to give it some time before you make any final decisions on children of your own. Keep posting here it helps and take care of yourself
Welcome to our group. In answer to your question, yes your marriage can survive, but it is an everyday struggle that both of you must be willing to work at.
AuntCis is right about the parental rights and the CS. One of my friend, her SO has a 12 yr. from before. The mother had a written agreement that she did not want CS. Recently she decided that she did and not only did she get it, she also sued for back years and the state took both of his tax refunds.
The OC stitch is a very difficult one and requires extra care. Since we are in a new thread, I am going to repost the OC handbook that
Scooter has posted for everyone new here. This has very good advice on how to handle this.
Hugs to you
Below are some helpful starters for "newbies":
OC HANDBOOK (courtesy Me&My3)
1. Dna results must be established and your H should hire an atty immediately if he hasn't already done so. DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON YOUR OWN ONLY THROUGH AN ATTORNEY SKILLED IN FAMILY LAW.
2. If you have children of your own with your h take steps to protect them and yourself by filing for a pseudo legal separation; because in the case of child support, he who files first gets the most (in most states). It doesn't matter one bit which child came first only who files for support first. So if she files first she gets an amount based on his entire income and if you then get separated/divorced your child support would be based on a percentage of his income less what he's already paying her. Makes sense to protect yourself by filing for a separation that way if you and your husband divorce you will benefit more and if you stay together it will keep more money in your household. Even if you're financially self-sufficient you should still consider setting up a child support order because in these uncertain times you never know what tomorrow will bring i.e. corporate downsizing, etc. It never hurts to have that order in place even if you don't need it now. Also consider having alimony set up in the separation papers as it can also reduce the ow's child support order.
3. Visitation with possible oc or sending money to the ow for the oc is a no-no until dna has been established and the courts are involved. Everything should be done legally as it's the only way to protect you and your family. Trust me on this one. There are couples out there who have been dealing with an oc for several years. Visitation, money, etc. only to discover that the child is NOT his. They are embroiled in a huge legal battle because the wayward husband "assumed" parental responsibility of the child.
4. Depending on which state you live in your h could be responsible for back child support, internment (costs of labor and delivery), the costs of the dna test if it's positive, current medical coverage and also a portion of child care costs. Any money that passes hands before a court order is made or before an attorney draws up a legal document signed by both parties may be considered a gift and may not be deducted from the back support amount owed. Some states base child support payments on both the husband and the wives income (another good reason to file for a legal separation). In other words the 'household income' is what they use to determine those payments not just the husbands income.
5. Any decisions to have contact with the oc if it is indeed your H's should be made by both of you. He should not be imposing his wants upon you if you want no contact. ANY decisions made regarding the possible oc should be made jointly. Your H should not be having any contact with ow unless you are both completely involved. That means no phone calls, no text messages, no emails, no meetings, nothing and NO SECRETS! PERIOD! But if you're smart--DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON YOUR OWN ONLY THROUGH AN ATTORNEY SKILLED IN FAMILY LAW.
6. Work on your marriage first and foremost before you even consider having contact. A weakened marriage will only be further weakened if you throw the tension of an oc into the mix. Get into marriage counseling and IC if possible. You can look around this board and see how difficult reconciliation is without an oc so take things slowly and think through them very carefully.
7. Contact with oc is a very personal choice. Many women are able to make the decision to go down that road while others are not. There is a lot of drama that goes along with contact, it's not an easy path to choose. Also consider that visitation can be started at any time down the road. If say in two years you are then open to the idea of contact the child won't have suffered if your husband wasn't involved for the first couple years. It won't even know the difference.
8. Remember that if the oc is indeed your husband's child the ow will no longer hold all the cards. If the two of you want contact she can't prevent it. She can't prevent you from being involved, etc. She can't call all the shots, only the courts can. Once she decides to attach paternity to your husband she is forfeiting a portion of her parental rights.
9. Make sure that you dot your i's and cross your t's in the form of legal documents. If you're adamant about no contact, have it in the papers. If you want to prevent her from making contact with your children or extended family put it in the paperwork. If your H is responsible for a portion of child care costs require ow to only use a licensed child care provider which will prevent her from having her momma watch and claim she's charging $250.00 a week when she's really charging nothing at all.
10. Protect your financial assets such as homes, etc. If you don't have a will get one now. If anything were to happen to your ws the ow would be able to fight you for a portion of everything if indeed the oc is his. Many people create a will that specifically excludes the oc or they leave the oc some small stipend such as a dollar so that the old "he forgot to include me" argument can't be used. If you intend to have a relationship with the oc should dna confirm that it's your H's then this is all a moot point.
11. If you and your spouse do decide to have contact document everything. Keep a notebook and list everything possible in it from the time the oc is picked up/ dropped off to whether or not they were dirty when you got them from the ow. This information has come in very handy for others in the same situation that ended up having to fight for custody, etc and it's one more way to protect yourself.
FAQs wrt OW/OC:
Q: What if there is an OC? Submitted by PHOEBE
A: This complicates so many things in a marriage I cannot answer it all but will hit on the highlights. There are many questions that need to be answered when it comes to dealing with an other child. First you must find out if the child is the H with a DNA test? Seek out a family attorney to consult with. This is a must because a family must know their rights. Too many get empty threats from the OP involved and they do not know any better so tend to believe many things untrue. Try to protect yourself and your children of the marriage legally.
Does the married couple want contact or no contact? NC or C are not easy, keep in mind wait to make an informed decision. I want to make it clear it is usually easier to heal a marriage without contact with the OP/OC initially. Contact can always be established later on after the marriage is repaired or far along as it can be in the healing process to consider contact with the OC.
It is a personal decision to include OC in your household or not. Neither choice is good or bad. Consider that it may be great to have the OC involved in 2 separate families that are amicable or it may be detrimental to the OC to have to deal with 2 hostile environments. Many times the OC was not planned and the adults involved cannot get along, take a step back and think long and hard about the child's best interest.
The OC is no more important than the COM or the BS. You do not have to change your lives around to accept anyone. I know you may want to fix everything for your Spouse but you must let him take responsibility for his own actions. DS this is some of what I have to say about this if someone has already answered it you can add it. This is a complicated situation with too many variables
Q: How do I deal with continued contact with OW because of OC? Submitted by Bee-Trayed
A: The decision on how to handle an OW/OC situation is a deeply personal one. Some BS find that they have it in their hearts to make the OC a part of their lives; others do not. There is no right or wrong answer to this situation. However, when it is the WS's choice to have contact with the OC then certain "battle" lines must be drawn with the OW, to facilitate the re-establishment of trust in the marriage.
This is best accomplished by establishing a clear understanding between the BS and WS of what will and will not be acceptable or allowable boundaries. Here are some hypothetical:
NC whatsoever with OW/OC
Contact with OC possible but with BS present
Neutral zone for visitation; no visits at OW's home, etc.
Legally drawn up contract stating acceptable parameters for OW to contact WS.
These are just a few sample suggestions. Remember, once there is an OC involved, and paternity has been established, BOTH parents have rights. Make them work for you. It is unbalancing and counter-productive to find yourself on the defensive with the OW.
Establish, with the assistance of your spouse, what your "comfort zone" and rights are with the OW, then send a clear and UNIFIED message to the OW of what you will and will not tolerate. This helps the BS to re-establish some control over a situation that is tragic for all concerned, but in which they, along with the OC, are also a victim.
Q: What do we tell our kids about OC? Submitted by Bee-Trayed
A: Many BSs express concern over telling their children about the existence of the OW/OC. Fear of emotional trauma to the COM, damage to the parental relationship between the WS and COM, or other negative consequences relating to the A abound. How, or if, a BS decides to divulge this information is also highly individual and neither right nor wrong. Family dynamics, the ages of the COM, and other factors unique to the BS's family environment influence the decision.
Relying on one's instinct is probably a good place to start. If there is any uncertainty as to the affect disclosure may cause, then it is probably better to wait until a more opportune time arises. Children are resilient, but that does not mean they should be unnecessarily wounded or burdened with this knowledge.
Examining one's motives for exposing the OW/OC's existence may be one aspect to consider. Preparing them for a possibly unpleasant encounter with OW/OC at a future date might be another. Knowledge is power, but not if it creates a destabilizing environment for the COM. Consider all options and then take your time making the decision. Choosing the right time or place, and striving to neutralize the emotionally charged nature of the subject, can make the difference between a "successful" disclosure and a devastating one.
[This message edited by BMC0415 at 10:16 PM, May 13th (Wednesday)]
You sound like you need some hugs:
R isn't easy & when knowledge of OC is there....it makes everything even harder. I've done both, plus a third R is being attempted right now.
About postponing your IVF:
I don't regret trying to conceive DS9 during hysterical bonding phase after A#1. He was actually what pulled me out-of-funk for a while....but, OC wasn't part of picture until 7 months after DS's birth. The way I looked @it was, I had 1 child by WH & I wanted another child. I knew WH was a wonderful father & thought "if this doesn't work out, at least all my children will be with WH."
I am wondering althe same things myself I don't know if my M can survive the OC. My H has/wants contact, but I don't want any nor do I want hin to(that is a battle in and of itself). Hang in there.
Hmmm. I am sorta glad OC knows WH. I'm not glad OW is in our lives for 10 more years (or until OC starts driving herself over 2 house).
I was an illigitimate child & my father never chose to be involved w/me (no CS or anything). He wasn't married, just dating my mom. He went NC after she revealed pregnancy. His mother sent some clothes for me, but then passed away (so never met her). None of his family has contacted me or anything. I did find his brother several years ago on an alumni website for their high school (his e-mail was posted there - their site has since gone private) & found out that my biological father had passed away in 1991.
It really hurt my self-worth to know that I had a father out there who DIDN'T want to know me (as I think I'm a very special person). Even if it had only been a card on b-days & NC otherwise. I wish he had been even curious about me. If I'd had any decent stepfathers, I may have felt differently.
WH always said he would have contact w/OC, but he possibly has a much older child out there (the friend w/benefits claims it wasn't his after contronted over 21 years ago though). What bothers me about that child is, WH has never tried again to contact the woman. She told H that the baby was her new husband's (she was just a teen, still in high school and got married). Hopefully, that man treated the child well...because he did know it was probably H's baby. It bothers me that H has contact w/OC and not his "possible" child who'd be about 20 now. Heck, he may be a young grandpa @38 by now! He doesn't even know if that young woman had a boy or girl.
[This message edited by repeatBS326 at 10:32 AM, May 14th (Thursday)]
I am totally new to this game but I think that it might be a good idea to meet with a lawyer - at least so you can try to protect yourself financially. When I found out about the A and OC I think my H was in complete denial about the OC. I honestly think that H thought if he ignored it would go away. So even before going to an MC I wanted him to meet with an attorney. As I understand it, if paternity is determined further down the road OW can sue for back CS and that can be a big sock in the gut. Everyone is different but for me I wanted the DNA test - I feel like I need all the info (good or bad) so that I can get on with my life with or without him.
I know everyone chimes in about OC not having a father is okay. Every situation is different though. Every family needs to make a very difficult decision about contact w/OC.
I wouldn't say that I think OC not having a father is O.K.. I just think that H being NC with OC/OW was what worked best in our situation. H and I are both very glad that OC has a stepfather that is very good to her and wants to adopt her. Some situations just turn out that it is best for NC to be in place. JMHO