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User Topic: Passive Aggressive Relationships
sarahsorry812
♀ New Member
Member # 36825
Default  Posted: 12:41 PM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No quite the opposite Mike7. I dont believe my H will leave. What i fear is him holding this 1 mistake over my head for the rest of my life because he never lets things go.

Let me ask you, if you don't mind, are you in a relationship with a p/a person? Are you familiar with the mind games they play and how they twist things and make you crazy?

Did i lie? YES. One time. People make mistakes and i want to focus on my M and fix our problems. I know that will not be possible if my H knows of my mistake. Because I've known my H for 22 yrs.

You are calling me a liar and making my situation seem so black and white. Well, when you're dealing with a p/a person, there is no black and white.


Posts: 34 | Registered: Sep 2012
mike7
♂ Member
Member # 38603
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I made a huge mistake and got into a relationship with a MM. I've broken it off with him more times then i can count. I've done NC too. He is relentless in contacting me via txting and calling. I've been strong to not reply. Eventually, his love bombing and links to love songs and professing his deep love for me breaks me down and after 4 months of NC i caved and replied to his latest txt back in January. We've been in an EA for the last 2 months and i recently found the strength to go NC again and hes been relentlessly txting and calling me everyday since Saturday."

a month from now, do you think you will still have NC?


BH 53
WW 52
Two kids 21, 18

DDay 1/15/2013


Posts: 542 | Registered: Mar 2013
sarahsorry812
♀ New Member
Member # 36825
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mike7
Im so sorry for what you're going thru. I've read your story. I know you must look down on me as a bad person with complete disregard. Im am on another site as well trying to get help and fix things. I have spoken to betrayed spouses as Well. I now do have remorse. I will admit in the beginning i had regret but i have been doing a lot of soul searching and a lot of research. I am catholic and I've gone to church and spoken to a priest and confessed to my adultery. It is out there and it is real. I wil tell you i am extremely disappointed in myself. I am having a very hard time forgiving what I've done. It was a grave mistake and i am not blaming anyone. I have personal issues that have gotten me into this situation whereas i feel compassion And the will to help people. When OM started talking to me we were just friends. There were no feelings whatsoever. We were friends for months and prior to that we had known each other over 10 yrs ago - again, just friends, we met on the train to work. I pegged him from back then that he was a player and all talk. When we met again 2 yrs ago bc he moved to town and our children go to school together i told my H. He knew i was friends with him back then and that we talked and txted recently. I dont know at what point i lost my boundaries. We were friends for months before anything happened. I know i allowed it to happen. I could have said no. I want to say, but fear i will get lashed at for it, but he was very manipulative. And there is a pull and a fog that people talk about. I hate myself for what i did and for getting in this situation. I am dealing with that and working through that. I would love to be able to block him from my phone but it would show up on the bill and my H would question it.
Will he try and contact me again? Yes probably because he is a manipulative piece of shit scumbag who has complete disregard for his W and family values. I also found out that i was not the only one, which hurt me bc he would tell me how much he loved me, blah blah. It was all bullshit. I was a complete idiot for entering into any of it. And even though the last 2 months of txting contact i have vehemently been explaining to him how wrong this is, i will never engage with you again, i love my H and i am working on my M - apparently it has fallen on deaf ears bc he still feels its ok bc he is unhappy at home. I only talked to him these last 2 months in a final attempt to help him see how wrong this is and to see if he has any regard for his family. Well, it failed. He has no intention of changing his ways. I tried to help him and i know perfectly well by being in contact with him again i could be caught and the A exposed. But i felt i had to try and help him.
I see his true colors and the person for who he truly is and the fact that his words have no meaning. So i will continue , on my own, to deal with getting him out of my life forever.

In answr to your question, in a month from now if he contacts me, NO i will not engage. I started to delete his txts without even reading them now.

I understand your pain is raw from the ultimate betrayal. I dont expect sympathy from anyone here, i am suffering with pain, remorse, guilt, disgust, and i am suffering by myself. I deserve it, because i got myself into this mess. But i am still in pain and am suffering.

I came here bc i am trying so desperately to fix my M and as I've said in all the reading I've been doing and in talking to my C I've realized that my H is p/a and i came here for help in how to deal with someone like that. That behavior is crippling and very destructive to one's self esteem and sanity.

I hope i didnt say anything to upset you. Im just trying to explain myself.


Posts: 34 | Registered: Sep 2012
suspicious247
♀ Member
Member # 33014
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, April 23rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted on this thread two years ago. I said this is where I belonged. I now know that this behavior is abusive!!! It is a form of mental abuse. If you are struggling please read the book 'why does he do that'. It really opened my eyes

Nothing is EVER his fault, he won't make any kind of decisions, we can't have any kind of conversation because my words get twisted and we always end up in an argument, he criticizes me at every turn and on and on and on


This was my life for four years.

Read my post in the General forum called "he wont propose bc I dont view health as important as he does". Not a single person thinks he is salvageable. And PA defines him to a T!



Posts: 390 | Registered: Aug 2011
survivor_kh
♀ Member
Member # 33738
Default  Posted: 3:38 PM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nothing is EVER his fault, he won't make any kind of decisions, we can't have any kind of conversation because my words get twisted and we always end up in an argument, he criticizes me at every turn and on and on and on

BTDT. It is a horrible feeling.


Surviving is important, thriving is elegant- Maya Angelou

you is kind, you is smart, you is important


Posts: 297 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Indiana
sarahsorry812
♀ New Member
Member # 36825
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, May 9th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What's BTDT?

Posts: 34 | Registered: Sep 2012
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, July 29th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just had to bump this thread back up for those of us still dealing with a P/A personality.

Just venting here. It is getting so hard to have days off together lately. Meaning I DREAD it. I don't have anything planned yet when he wakes up almost the first thing out of his mouth is "what are we going to do today?" and I have told him to please not ask this, like I am his cruise director or something? Then he won't think of anything HE wants to do, he will just sit around the house on his computer all day and tell me how bored he is.

He has done nothing with his sons who are now 24 and 28, now if THEY ask him to like lift something or work on something with the car he will do it, but he just sits there and waits for them to ask him..... or waits for me to "come up with something". He has no hobbies, he goes to work and comes home. Now if I think of something he will go but its like he has no mind of his own. Its rather strange.

[This message edited by realitybites at 7:08 AM, July 29th (Monday)]


Posts: 5673 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
heartbroken_kk
♀ Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 5:23 PM, August 4th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bumping for another member.


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1220 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
Walking
♀ Member
Member # 40102
Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, August 7th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for bumping this thread. I just found out about my PA husbands multiple year affair. I have known about my husbands PA tendencies for years. I was expecting our first child and my husband who I had been married to for 9 years insisted I have an abortion. This went on all 9 mos. He kept crabbing that I was trapping him,. Now we had always intended to have children, so this reaction puzzled me. He stopped talking with me the whole of the pregnancy except for the random confrontation that I needed to get an abortion. I went to independent counseling when I was about 6 mos pregnant and the counselor opened my eyes to the fact that I was married to a PA and the personality traits i had that attracted him. I read the Wexler book at my therapists direction, and it reinforced my decision to have this child that I wanted so much, and tell him to leave. After 9 mos of walking out and disappearing, of not helping with anything around the house of not cooking a meal of not telling his parents a baby was on the way, of ninety percent silence, he decided to man up and drive me to the hospital so I could deliver the baby. My parents knew our marriage was hanging by a thread at that point. After our child was born it was like a restart. He started acting like the normal man I married for the most part. Fast forward 8 years, we are still married, the silence treatments now include me and the kids, he took a job that he travels a lot for absences of months at a time are not atypical. We have debt problems, not because we don't have money to pay, because he just won't do the bills. But he will with hold the bills from me to pay. He buys himself lots of expensive toys including multiple cars, without even asking me but he wants to know how I spend every penny. I have raised the kids on my own. He shows up when he wants and showers lavish gifts on them and then gripes when the house is full of toys they never wanted. He started withholding sex and affection about 5 years ago. I thought he might have had a physical problem. Turns out he has been having a multiple year affair with an older unattractive, crazy person who apparently took his excuses only so long, before she starting stalking our family. She went so fatal attraction, we needed a restraining order because she walked in our house uninvited and highly agitated and started confronting me in front of the children. My husbands reaction so far to this, mostly silence. trying to figure out what i am going to do. PAs don't change. Their spouses do. They fall out of love with them and try to minimize their affects on the children until they are old enough to at least recognize their PA parent needs to be handled a certain way.

I am grateful for a place to tell my story. There are lots of PAs out there. Many are incapable of change. It's important to know what you are dealing with though. It helps in formulating a plan, and hearing other people's stories help a person to realize they are not crazy, they are living with a disabled person that will not seek help or acknowledge any problem except his/her choice of spouse.

[This message edited by Walking at 7:46 AM, August 7th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 57 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Midwest
heartbroken_kk
♀ Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 4:00 PM, August 27th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bumping up for those who might see their relationship mirrored here.


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1220 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
Ashland13
♀ Member
Member # 38378
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, September 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This thread could have been written about Perv. Some of the similarities are astounding.

He grew up with alcoholism in his family and it was a big presence. He grew up also with only one parent, as one died young and it's a rather a large group also.

Things I'm learning about his growing up differ greatly from what I understood when I was an "outlaw" and went to occasions with him.

One thing that they did as a group was to decide that emotions are evil and should not be shown in front of anyone, that things like anger are not good and crying is worse. And so Perv grew up believing that he had to hide the emotional side of him from the world. He is one of the most stone faced people I've ever met...his siblings are the others.

In regard to the passive aggression aspect, it's believed by counselors that he learned that as a coping mechanism and part of it was fueled by his ego's need to be fed from the outside, rather than from self-love and things he did. He did things because he had guilt or to make up for something or to shut someone up, but it came across as different, because he didn't say a word, just did, all the while seething inside and hiding for years and years resentment that built until it toppled over and aimed itself all at me.

There are a few ways to tackle a relationship with a passive aggressive person and I think the hardest is to try to do it without being a doormat. I'm still working on that, though D is around the corner, we have 18 years to go being parents for as long as he stays interested.

What I've learned to do that helps is if I or we need something, I give the request and I do it in a multiple choice type of way, so that he can feel in control instead of me controlling him. If I have something to say to him, now I say it in an open-ended way, never, ever demanding and if I can I try to make it like it was his idea.

Yes, it can be it's own kind of game and it's not easy, but it beats more resentment or worrying that he is spewing more to OW about me. I suspect the PA part of the person will carry over to OW and the new life as well and well...hats off to you, OW. (sarcasm).


Ashland 13

A person is a person, no matter how small. -Dr. Suess

Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages.

-George Washington


Posts: 2287 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: New England
Housefulloflove
♀ Member
Member # 38458
Default  Posted: 4:38 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing that they did as a group was to decide that emotions are evil and should not be shown in front of anyone, that things like anger are not good and crying is worse. And so Perv grew up believing that he had to hide the emotional side of him from the world. He is one of the most stone faced people I've ever met...his siblings are the others.

Wow..it sounds like our husbands grew up in the same family. Being around my (ex)in-laws is like being in the Twilight Zone. No matter what is going on, even if it's happening right there and in everyone's face, they never show emotion. They rarely talk about anything that is even slightly negative, and *if* they do mention things that would illicit strong emotions in most people, they say it totally stone-faced. It's like listening to them talk about someone they don't really know and about something they don't really care about even when it's some serious stuff and it's about their close relatives.

I thought they were a normal, loving family at first. But some of the shit I witnessed over the last decade make it clear that they project an IMAGE of that but it's FAAAAARR from reality.

In regard to the passive aggression aspect, it's believed by counselors that he learned that as a coping mechanism and part of it was fueled by his ego's need to be fed from the outside, rather than from self-love and things he did. He did things because he had guilt or to make up for something or to shut someone up, but it came across as different, because he didn't say a word, just did, all the while seething inside and hiding for years and years resentment that built until it toppled over and aimed itself all at me.

Our husbands seem SO similar it's amazing.

[This message edited by Housefulloflove at 4:40 PM, September 4th (Wednesday)]


Me-29 Starting over
ExWH-29 Probable NPD, PA, manchild
3 beautiful young children
DDay 1/20/13 Admits PA
No remorse so NO R. DIVORCED! 9/2013

Posts: 541 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: USA
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, September 7th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He did things because he had guilt or to make up for something or to shut someone up, but it came across as different, because he didn't say a word, just did, all the while seething inside and hiding for years and years resentment that built until it toppled over and aimed itself all at me.

Absolutely. ^^^^ Spot on.


Posts: 5673 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
StillLivin
♀ Member
Member # 40229
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG. I've read and skimmed most of the posts.
Wow, this is my husband to a T.
I read some of the articles. I always told him that he was sometimes P/A. His bio mother is. Her mother and grandmother were. Most of his siblings are co dependent like me. He inherited the trait, if that is at all possible.
Question. Is P/A something that can become worse over time? He has definitely become worse, the A alone says that. Other actions and behaviours also point to this.
I've only noticed one thread where the P/A WH made true changes.
Is it possible for a P/A person to get help and get better, not fixed, just better?


I don't need further confirmation of what a fuckwit he is. I already have plenty, thanks very much. -SBB
D: 7/2/2014

Posts: 2334 | Registered: Aug 2013 | From: AZ
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, September 19th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

perfect example of PA behavior happened today.

PAWH came home in the middle of the day and told me that our mortgage plus credit line (used to fix the house when we moved in) were too big,and he can't catch up...meaning pay off the credit line.

He informed me that he is looking into getting a new mortgage and lumping them together. I told him I didn't want us paying interest on the credit line part for the next 30 years, but we need to follow our original plan and try to pay it off.

He spoke with a banker, who suggested we not only lump the two together, but we reduce the loan to a 20 year loan. That would save us $ in the long haul, but our monthly payments would be GREATER than what we are paying already.

I pointed this out to H, and told him that he started the entire conversation with me based on the premise that our payments to the two are to high and he can't get ahead of them.

He got agressive, and said, "Make up your mind. Your're saying one thing then the other."

me: "I don't have to make up my mind about anything. You're the one saying conflicting things. I'm not going to make any decisions right now or any time soon."

him: "Settle down."

He managed to turn his whole manipulative idea into another "HBH is the problem."

Jerk! He is a PA, manipulative Jerk.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Example:

1 son who has traveled to another country for a few months posted something on facebook, my husband showed it to me while on his computer, I said why don't you comment on it, that looks cute. He pushed his computer towards me and said go ahead you write it, I then said "I thought you would since it is your computer and your facebook you are logged in" he then said he really wasn't going to do it but since I mentioned it then go ahead.

My response was to say never mind, if you did not want to do it then don't do it and don't ask me to write it for you. Its entirely up to you.

He threw up his hands and said "oh my God, unbelievable"

All I did was make a comment on how he should comment if he wanted to....and I am the horrible person because in the long run he wanted to comment, he just wanted ME to write it on his facebook for him.


Posts: 5673 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
heartbroken_kk
♀ Member
Member # 22722
Default  Posted: 12:38 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, poor little muppet can't think of what to write, so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE write it for him! He's so helpless with stuff like this! You're so good at it, why don't you do it!

WHAT!??? What do you mean, you won't help me!?? You are such an awful person! Don't you SEE WHAT YOU DID You are trying to trap me! You are setting me up to look like an ass! This is all your fault! Why do you do stuff like this ALL THE TIME you are such a control freak!


BW then 46, STBXWHNPDPAFTG the destroyer of my entire life.
D-Day 1 1999, D-Day 2,3,4,5,6... 2009 thru 2011.

Separated, divorcing, moving on.
I edit because I always make typos.


Posts: 1220 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: California
realitybites
♀ Member
Member # 6908
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, September 21st (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

^^^^

You scared me with how real that sounded when you wrote that! Its exactly how he felt I am sure.

All I did was mention how cute the facebook looked and how he should respond. I came across as the royal bitch somehow....

I do think it is so sad that he looks to me to do things for him in a very unhealthy way....but when I pull back and won't play that game anymore I am the horrible person.


Posts: 5673 | Registered: Apr 2005 | From: florida
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Example:

Got a notice someone needs help to distribute 400 donation cans around town. They have to be dropped off (with the location where they will be at's permission) and checked/switched out twice by October.

I've never done this type of thing before, would like to help, but have no idea of what is entailed. My personality is to not do anything, because of the fear of the unknown. This realization really got to me today, and I started to cry out of disappointment with myself and my bad example to our children. We rarely help in this type of way, and here is a way to do it and my fear of the unknown has me frozen.

I shared this with WH (BIG MISTAKE.) I asked him if we should help, and if he has any experience with that sort of thing, to help encourage me to make the phone call. He said he doesn't know anything about fundraising, but he thinks we (meaning I and our children, not he) should help.

He suggested I call the coordinator, and find out how many her core group is placing themselves before they decided to pass the other 400 on to other volunteers.

This tactic made me angry. He wants me to call the person and grill them on how many they are placing versus how many they are asking others to place???? I told him it doesn't matter how many they are placing themselves, they put their need for volunteers out there to place 400. Can we help or not? It is none of our business, and not our place to question how many they are placing themselves. If they don't get enough volunteers, they will end up placing the rest themselves, or not at all. If they were lazy people, they wouldn't have put together the fund raiser at all. They have done everything themselves, all they need is help getting the donation cans placed in businesses.

I told WH, I wasn't asking for his help on how to judge, criticize or grill the organizers. I was asking for encouragement so I will have the courage to help them a little. I finally told him "You call and ask those questions if you want to."

He said he would, but I know he won't. He shouldn't. His stupid questions are irrelevant to whether or not anyone can help place cans. I'm not sure why his mind even went there...maybe trying to find something wrong with them to justify why people (he) shouldn't volunteer?

Of course he couldn't see what his mind created, and how he missed my entire point. He didn't encourage me, just got me off on an irrelevant tangent and then I was upset and churning inside...at him!

Forget PAWH and his fantasy concerns!!!!

I got so angry with PAWH for his back door cowardice, I decided to get over my own fear and face it.

I'll call the coordinator today and ask what she needs, and tell her I've never done it before, and know I can't do all 400, but based on what is required, our children and I will place a few.

PA is crazy making for the people counting on them to be straight forward, honest and supportive. PA people don't know their own thoughts and motivations. They are crazy making for those around them.


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
HurtButHopeful?
♀ Member
Member # 25144
Default  Posted: 11:41 AM, September 25th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

YEA!!!!! I called the coordinator, and she will be dropping off 5 cans for me and our girls to distribute. I have already thought about one person who might keep one in her studio, our girl's piano teacher!! 4 more to go!


Reconciliation means that we both are authentic and vulnerable. I still have my H, and he's a better man than ever!

Posts: 1716 | Registered: Aug 2009
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