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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 2:58 PM, May 25th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope everyone is staying safe and enjoying some respite from LTA land.

We had a little setback and "old H" reared his head. We were all taken aback, especially when he stopped the car and got off.
Such cheap dramatics.
When I think of how I used to respond to this before, I cringe...begging him to get back in, kids crying in the backseat,etc etc.
This time however, I drove off and calmly explained to the kids that daddy was in a bad mood and needed some space, so he will walk home. I got them involved in tasks as soon as we got home and by the time H arrived (it was a long walk!)they were all chilled and engrossed in stuff.We hardly spoke for the last 2 days, and only today started "being friends" again.

The thing is I know we should address this properly, but we just can not talk to each other about issues. I had hoped a Retrouville weekend would have helped but he will not attend. So we just bury this and carry on.

However, I am taking away some insights from this:
* I dont have to cave in to his drama
* The kids actually do better with me staying calm and in control

What saddened me however was how quickly I began imagining life w/o him.
What surprised me was the knowledge that 1.it has been a long long time since we had a fight like this ( I remember when these fights were every other day), and,
2. We both seemed to miss each other in those 2 days...it was so odd not being close to the other.

And so we plod on.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, May 25th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That sounds like a lot of progress to me, Lost. You are changing the part of it you can, your own. Way to live from your beliefs instead of your feelings. Feels powerful, doesn't it?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, May 25th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH- Good job on staying calm and not reacting- that can be sooooo hard to do.

BT-

Hope you made it through the anniversary day yesterday without too much trauma, although my gut tells me that is unlikely. I am thinking of you and sending you good thoughts and prayers.

Thank you. It WAS rough.

TRIBE- I just wanted to commend each and every one of you for making it through and trudging along each day- especially those of you with kids who continue to be good mommies even when you feel like falling apart. My young kiddos did not know about the LTA and they don't know about the recent one, either. They were only 2 and 5 when I had the first dday. But like BT, I raged and had such a hard time that they felt it and absorbed it. I decided *this* time around I was NOT going to put them through that. And I am proud to say that they have NO idea anything is going on between mom and dad this time. YAY for me- progress. I have to admit that the other day I had to rage at him and it was after the kids went to bed - so I left the house and called him so I could scream at him over the phone

My mantra right now (as anyone who just suffered any dday) is "one day at a time"- What is he doing TODAY to rebuild trust and work on himself? What can I do TODAY that will help me get back on track, keep my dignity and my spirit?

Hope everyone is doing OK.

Hugs to all,
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Way to live from your beliefs instead of your feelings. Feels powerful, doesn't it?

Yes it does BT.
Lets hope I can stay consistent!

HB,

What is he doing TODAY to rebuild trust and work on himself? What can I do TODAY that will help me get back on track, keep my dignity and my spirit?

Way to go, HB.
I can just picture you leaving home to yell at H.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lh2 & hb

sounds as though you both made progress....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, May 26th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HB,

I'm proud of you and I can hear that you are proud of yourself, which is clearly more important.

Hang in there.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:52 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good for you LostH. It sounds like you had a hold on the situation – I bet Mr LH wasn’t expecting that! If he wanted to have an adolescent outburst, then it was best you just left him to it. I hope you didn’t make a big deal of it and just shrugged your shoulders while waiting for him to come around. Stay with it.
What saddened me however was how quickly I began imagining life w/o him

Maybe it’s not so much that as you feeling you can be in control of your own life - with or without him. You are so much more confident in yourself, your mothering, your other relationships than you were before, so you know you will survive and do perfectly okay without him, but that doesn’t mean to say you want to be w/o him. Could there be some truth in that?

So what is his reason to decline the suggestions of the Retrouville weekend?

HB, I think that will be my mantra forever more. But you are definitely on the right track with your thinking. You have to be strong for yourself because, clearly, he wasn’t.

There was some little discussion last week on a tv programme about whether we should love our spouses more than our children and that the spouse should always come first. One woman described the different way we love by saying “I would kill for my husband, but I would die for my children”. Of course the debate ran to the conclusion that when children need you, whatever age they are, they come first and it is never a matter of loving your children more, it is that you love your children unconditionally and you expect your spouse to understand this and not take it as a sign that he is marginalised. I thought my H understood and was by side on this. Turns out he was not. I remember reading somewhere here that while my trust was taken advantage of, the giving of it was not a reflection of my intelligence but the abuse of it was a reflection of his character. Somehow, by trusting him so implicitly, I was allowing him, or even in his skewed head, giving him permission to have his other life because he knew I would never question him. Is it even possible he thought I wouldn’t mind?

There are days (like over the w/e) when I have had quite a nice time with FWH and a couple of days later, I get knocked down because I remember what he has done and that the way we have been, THEY were. And then I look at myself and wonder; just what IS the point to all of this?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BitterExperience
♂ Member
Member # 24140
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and certainly can relate to this topic. Maybe I can claim the "BS hit by the longest LTA" award?

Last week I found my wife had just had a date which she described as a "dumb impulse" among a storm of sobs and emotional outbursts.

Could sound plausible if it wasn't because she had an affair with the same guy some eight years ago -which I thought was long buried. So the "one night stand" could very well be a continuous LTR of 8 yrs... or much worse, since the OM is her old bf from college days. So for what I know she could have been seeing him long before I found out (she strongly denied it during our healing phase, and I believed her at that time, but how can I trust her anymore?)

So I am facing the prospect of my wife having spent our entire married life (23 yrs) with a lover, right under my nose. Whether it was continuous or sporadic I don't know and I guess I'll never know unless it comes out during a divorce.

I guess most people in this thread can relate to this, right?


BS (me): 48.
WW (Her): 45.
Married: 23 years.
The OM: An old (from college) flame.
D-Day: 05/20/09
Previous D-Day: 8 years ago.
Kids: 2 (not really kids anymore)
Filing for divorce as soon as financial issues are ironed out.

Posts: 155 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Chicago
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Bitter and welcome to SI. I can see you are all over the place right now. There is one guy I can think of right now – shoestring. Read up on his profile. As for the LTA forum, we are a group trying to help each other. A LTA is classified by being 2yrs or longer. And yes, some of the group have had the AP threaded in the whole marriage. We are here to help you through these traumatic stages and, if you decide, to help you with the reconciliation process. It can be quite brutal in Gen and (oddly enough) in the JFO forums. Some are very quick to help you to S&D and don’t understand LTA’s at all.

The first thing is to not do anything rash. Yes, you are in turmoil, but that is the very reason why you should just sit tight, go to IC, get your WW into IC and get both of you into MC. Sit tight for 6mths unless you are not prepared to deal with her behaviour, mend and heal together. The healing library (if you haven’t been there yet) is useful. Come down here if there is anything specific you need help with, we do know how it is. Also, you should find quite a few threads by SerJR in JFO. He’s very helpful in a lot of what he says.

MOW was ex-gf/finacee too. They broke up while at different universities and relinked through friendsreunited (my H being the instigator). I know the break up was not what either of them wanted, but she made my H choose between his uni and her. He chose the uni, she found another bf and later married him. I know my H also tried to find her in other ways and didn’t tell me a lot of things. So she and they have been a part of my marriage and I never knew.

This is a horrible experience for you. But we have been there too. I’ll be back later and hopefully someone else will drop by. We’re quite a busy and chatty lot, as you can see by the number we’re up to! Meanwhile, welcome again.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BitterExperience
♂ Member
Member # 24140
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the welcome, UK Girl. Yes, I posted lots of comments in the forum, hope at least a few of them make sense. I found it helpful in an unexpected way: most of the BS are women. And as you can imagine, we guys tend to keep these things among ourselves. This weekend, after (yet another) unsuccessful attempt to have a talk with my wife ("talk" not meaning sobs, emotional outbursts or hollow promises) I called two old friends, went to a bar and talked things over booze. Maybe I didn't get prime advice but it helped. So hearing the women's perspective in this forum helps too.

As for not rushing and seeking counseling, I'm not so sure about that. We've been there before. It took us about a year to mend things after I first discovered her A -and now it seems we're back to ground zero, as if nothing had happened. I can't help feeling that all the counseling and healing wasn't worth squat.

Right now my immediate concern is how to disclose this to my son (living out of state). I also have a daughter but she already knows -actually she knew before I did.

I am checking the site library and other posters' threads as I go. I have plenty of time -can't really focus on work.


BS (me): 48.
WW (Her): 45.
Married: 23 years.
The OM: An old (from college) flame.
D-Day: 05/20/09
Previous D-Day: 8 years ago.
Kids: 2 (not really kids anymore)
Filing for divorce as soon as financial issues are ironed out.

Posts: 155 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bitter - I read your post in JFO that contained your story in a nutshell. First, your wife is definitely gaslighting and probably trickle-truthing you. The fact that she has gathered "the troops" and made sure they all had a consistent "story" stinks to high heaven. As your kids are older and you are less inclined to R, I would give you the following advice:

First, get your financial and legal ducks in a row. Find an attorney, get advice on divorce laws in your state. Some are no-fault so your wife's A(s) won't matter. Some are fault but you would need concrete proof. Protect your assets immediately. Protect your childrens assets.

Second, if she is not telling the truth she need to get out of the home NOW. Nothing snaps someone out of the fog faster than realizing that they are on the verge of losing the life (although false) that they thought they had.

Third, read the healing library from beginning to end. Check her cell phone records. Put a keylogger in place to find about secret email accounts etc. If this has been going on for 8 years (or more), and I have to guess that is the case, there will be a trail somewhere.

Realize that she is probably deep in the fog and is going to say whatever she has to to keep her cake and be able to eat it too. You will find excellent advice here as many people here have been through the same experience. My H cheated on me throughout our entire marriage. Not with the same person but does 15 of them make it better?!

However, he is remorseful and has done his own work. He is transparent, he is deep into IC to dig into his multiple issues. He is working his ass off to be here another day. I have three young children so each day I can keep my family together, is a day I feel like I have done something wonderful for my children.

Welcome and keep posting.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also have a daughter but she already knows -actually she knew before I did.

I cannot tell you how much this pisses me off that your wife put your daughter in the middle of this. That tells me a ton about how involved with this man that she might be. Can you talk to your daughter and find out how much she might know without putting her on the spot? Please just let her know that you love her and you, in no way, are angry at her for keeping her mother's secret.

ETA: I had to go run an errand and I was thinking about this some more. How COULD your daughter know before you if it was a ONS? You caught her coming home at midnight and it all came spilling out. The only way your daughter would have known would be if this has been an ongoing thing, right?

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 12:21 PM, May 27th (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:33 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

welcome bitter, i am so sorry you are here and i beleive youhave found a very safe place to be.....

so sorry, but you do not get the award for the longest lta.....my whs' lta also started before my marriage, hell its started before i even knew him, his lta has lasted 30 years, he was her om, i'm in his life 23 years.....

we are not reconciled, we are in state of limbo

the only advice i can give you is to wait, do not rush into any decisions and most certainly make sure that you are protected should your ww do anything rash....

you are not alone, this is a really big club...


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
BitterExperience
♂ Member
Member # 24140
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, May 27th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hurtshirley, my daughter found out a little before I did, eight years ago. She told me (many years later) she repeatedly saw her mom hopping into this guy's car. Being a teen at that time, she just kept it to herself which I understand. Soon afterwards she found this, I was tipped by one of my wife's coworkers and soon uncovered it all. Based on what I know, at that time this guy was divorcing his wife, he probably spilled the beans so he had nothing to hide anymore, and they both became careless.

Now (after second DD) I asked my daughter whether she knew her mom was still seeing this guy and she said no. I hope she's sincere.


BS (me): 48.
WW (Her): 45.
Married: 23 years.
The OM: An old (from college) flame.
D-Day: 05/20/09
Previous D-Day: 8 years ago.
Kids: 2 (not really kids anymore)
Filing for divorce as soon as financial issues are ironed out.

Posts: 155 | Registered: May 2009 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 1:00 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well. I have had a very interesting day. I decided to reorganize some bookshelves in our study. When we moved in 12 years ago I was working more than full time and had two kids under four, a dog and a husband who was not very involved (and NOW I know why). So, when we "unpacked" I literally threw books onto shelves. The living room was organized but the study was just all the "leftover" books.

Soooooo, as I am sorting I come across EOs journals from years and years ago. (Don't worry, no new OW discovered) However,what was written was shocking. This from a journal he bought when he was visiting me in London (I did Jr. year abroad there):

"You don't seem to realize that it has nothing to do with you. It's my own esoteric prpensity to self destruct. Although I treat you badly, it is you I need more than anything else. Especially now. But probably forever. I need stabilization, something to keep me from going over the deep end. Yet someone, too, who has the ability to let me tread on it's edge but who never lets me plunge."

This was written in April of 1982!!!!! There is more. If I had ever had the opportunity to read some of this stuff there NEVER would have been a relationship much less a wedding. This "issue" that we had has always been there I just had no idea as it was so well hidden.

more:

"Another part of this conflict is my extreme desire for aloneness and my longing, my yearning for company......The conflict wages its battle on my heart and mind, makes me always uneasy, and fives me the feeling of being constantly torn apart, constantly stretched in incompatible directions.

Another part of this conflict is between reality and fantasy. I am more and more revelling in fantasy. Whatever is happening to me, I feel it is not good. Something bad is going to happen."

UKgirl - reading the journals I can SEE the descent into self-delusion. It is really scary. I am mentioned little and when I am, it is always a source of conflict or pain for him.

"Is HurtShirley the last tie to a former, no longer useful lifestyle and should that tie be cut?"

How about the need for ego-stroking?:

"I realized lately that the goal I set up for myself in all my fanciful endeavors ultimately focuses on fame. Every scenario that looks appealing involves me being highly acclaimed and at the center of a social scene."

These are the written words of my H when he was JUST out of college. Oh crap! crap! crap! This stuff is so much deeper than I thought. I am not even significant in this writing. His fantasy is what is significant. How the hell did I miss this? How stupid/naive/blind was I?

What I find very interesing is that these journals come to a complete halt before the first LTA. Maybe he has others hidden somewhere. Maybe he was too "busy". But I am dying sitting here reading them.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ouch, Shirley. I know that hurt.

I think my husband also had some fairly coherent understanding of his own issues, too, at that age. What I will never understand is why get married then? Why do it? Was the need to get over on someone else so strong that you would allow someone to build their whole lives on a lie? I don't think I will ever quite understand the ability to be so heedless of another person's well-being. The level of callousness astounds me still.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What I will never understand is why get married then? Why do it? Was the need to get over on someone else so strong that you would allow someone to build their whole lives on a lie?

I read through one journal all afternoon seeking the answer to this question. I truly believed he "needed" me to survive. I think he knew he would literally kill himself (through booze, stupid behavior, etc) without me. However, he had to find a way to make it possible to hurt me. Some of the stuff I read in the journal was truly astounding. How he managed to start making me look like the "bad guy" before we were even married and while he was professing his love for me in the journals.

He was creating the environment in his head to destroy another human to save himself. Well, folks, he did a damn good job of it. I am a little short of time now but if you want to see inside a future Waywards head, I now have the manual.

BTW, in my usual analytical fashion I already have the whole thing bookmarked with post-it notes with little remarks on them for him to read when he gets home. Am I a type-A or what?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh Shirley.
How the hell did I miss this? How stupid/naive/blind was I?

Remember my friend, he put on a good show. You may have got glimpses of the real EO, but for the most part, everything else was fake, an act.

My H was already the SOM when he and I got involved. Sometime after that, he broke up with me due to family pressure. Although that hurt me deeply, I carried on with my life (I was finishing up at uni)and looking forward to getting my first proper job. Then his friend calls up a few months later saying that H needed to see me as he was in a bad way. When we met up, he looked awful: said he couldnt eat or sleep, couldnt focus on work; he couldnt be without me. Huh? He dumped me!
And bear in mind, he had OW#1 too at this time.

At that time, I thought he was madly in love with me, but now in hindsight,I think he needed me for himself, or like EO phrased it:

Although I treat you badly, it is you I need more than anything else. Especially now. But probably forever. I need stabilization, something to keep me from going over the deep end

With me next to him, covering his back, building a foundation for him, he could carry on living his life on the edge, fulfilling his fantasy life,whilst having a warm hearth to come to.

I will NEVER EVER understand how one person could do that to another. I was 19. So eager to love and care for him. So willing to be his partner, to be what he wanted me to be. And I will never accept a dysfunctional FOO as an all encompassing excuse either. Many of us had dysfunctional FOOs...you dont see us deliberately setting out to destroy somebody else's life, let alone your childrens'.

Shirley, may I suggest you read those in little doses. Dont batter your spirit, Sweetie. You are doing really well.

(((((Shirley)))))


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, May 28th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was 19. So eager to love and care for him. So willing to be his partner, to be what he wanted me to be.

Yes, I was too. It is so sad now. I am amazed as each of us shares how similar our journey has been.

I read them all today. I spent 6 hours on it. We are now going to start going through them. He is willing. I am scared. Who is this man in my life?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 3:25 AM, May 29th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are now going to start going through them. He is willing. I am scared. Who is this man in my life?


Shirley,
That speaks volumes about your H's commitment to you and himself on this healing journey. I bet he is every bit as scared as you are, if not more. Its not an easy task poking into the dark corners of your mind and laying it out bare to the one you care for.
And I can only imagine how anxious you must, not knowing whats to come out.
Bravo to both of you!

(((((((Shirley&EO)))))))))


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
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