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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, June 3rd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

Sorry for my absence. Still digesting the journals. I promised you that I would continue to give you a look inside the mind of a developing Wayward. One of the thing that these journal show very clearly is the progression of self-delusion. As my H slipped down the slope, he began to "believe" things that he did not " believe" before - obvious self-delusion to allow him to continue the behavior. Here is a perfect example:

From his journal 5/1980:

"I really believe honesty and sincerity are two of the greatest attributes one can have. I think I am beginning to consciously see mine."

From his journal 1/1982 (sorry long but very insightful - this is after he had a few random fuckbuddy sex meetups on a business trip...we were not married or engaged yet)

"I feel an overwhelming sadness in the thought that the whole goddamn world is nothing but plastic. There a few honest motives anymore. The simple life is dead, extinct with all its parts - virtue, honesty, truth and love - yes, even love. Love has become one of the biggest shams of all....People don't want love; they don't want emotion or a real relationship; they have become too singular, too isolated, too callous. 'I don't want to get burned.' People want sex, free and easy, with no strings attached. And it has even reached the point where they no longer even enjoy sex; they have become insensitive to it. Sex has been put on the shelf, in the market, along with movies, soap and fast food."

Hmmmm, wonder who "people" is?

He goes on to describe hell on earth which, interestingly, is exactly what he built for himself!

"Hell with exist on earth. Each man will be so isolated from his fellow man, even his brother, and will be so suspicious of his motives that his basic and primeval instint to survive will force him to strike his brother down before his brother strikes him down. And when every man exists only for himself, when the world is in total chaos - a result of isolationism - even to the point of not trusting a companion (the opposite sex) hell will exist on earth and mankind will extinguish himself."

I find it interesting that he did isolated himself to such a degree that he was existing in his own personal hell.

Well, there is so much more but I can only do a little bit at a time. Sorry if it is full of typos but it is hard to read, type and cry at the same time.

If you don't want to see this because it is triggery, let me know and I will stop. I thought it would help all of you to "see" inside the mind of someone who was moving down the path of becoming a Wayward spouse before they were even married.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart2
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Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, June 3rd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it is kind of universal that anniversaries don't speak to men as they do to women....It may be that your husband is just not into anniversaries, not that he doesn't care about your son or his loss.

I guess that is true. He has been consistent in that aspect. It still stings though.

And I so did not know that Twilight was a romance!
My DD's friends all have a crush on Edward (they are 9 )but she is not allowed to watch it.

***

Shirley,
It is actually somewhat pathetic how similar these WSs are. My H used to go on about what a cold and callous world this was etc etc and I was convinced that my lurrve will show him that that was not true.

He goes on to describe hell on earth which, interestingly, is exactly what he built for himself!

Ditto my H.

You know whats interesting though, and I wonder if you noticed similar with your H:
Prior to dday, he was reluctant to get involved in other peoples business, and thought I was a big busy body trying to help my friends/family out, listening to their problems etc.
Now he is open to helping others; he offers his help and our home so easily, and I am proud of him for this.

And Shirley, hang in there Sweetie. Think of going through these journals as part of your grieving and ultimately your healing process. I am convinced that it is going to help you move forward. Just bear in mind though, that THAT EO is no more; that EO belongs in the past, ok?

(((((Shirley))))

***
Can I share a quick pat on my back with you lot?

Today I had to visit a a tiny baby at the hospital. I am trying to help her mother put together a support package for when this baby is discharged.
And it struck me as I was leaving that this was the same hospital I came to when I took the OD in 2006. A psychiatrist assessed me that day and even though I was trying very hard to keep it together so that I wouldnt be committed, I still told him a little about H's LTAs. Instead of shrugging me off or belittling it, he was so compassionate and told me that NO MAN should ever treat a woman like that. It made such a difference hearing IRL that I did have a "valid" reason for being so distressed; that I wasnt making mountain out of a molehill. I remember him using the word trauma to describe what I had been through (I must have let on more than I thought).
And here I am some 2 years later, trying to help someone in there. Who would have thought?
I am feeling quite chuffed with myself.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, June 3rd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great going LH2. Wonderful for you to be helping at the hospital, not triggerin at the experience - but recalling good about the psychatrist. I'm sure you are good at your job because of your empathy (among other things, of course).

Just wanted to thank you for sharing, HS. Reading those journals has to be so hard but also healing I hope. It's very generous of you.

BT Yes, women are the timekeepers and schedule planners and men usually need reminding of 'important dates' and wait until the last minute to shop or whatever. In my case, we are both aware of dates due to his work/travel schedule but FWH (understably) doesn't want to acknowledge Dday antiversary or remember the timeline of his A but he's intent on celebrating our wedding anniversary next week... enumerating the years while I want to subtract 3 yrs for the time he was cheating. Mantra... a day at a time... this has been motto for health issues and now for relationship too.

Later tribe. {{{LTA}}}


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, June 3rd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm hoping being "chuffed" actually feels better than it sounds.

Seriously, though, I don't think you give yourself enough credit. We all know you're pretty phenomenal. When are you going to agree with us?

And Twilight is a vampire romance, although not typical of that ilk because it is sans sex. Definitely agree it's not fare for a 9-year-old.

*******
LostS, did you do the first counseling session?

*******
Shirley, you have got more moxie than any other ten people I know. Good for you for pushing through it and doing what you need to do to get your answers. I think you'll be much better off for it in the end.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 3rd (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And here I am some 2 years later, trying to help someone in there. Who would have thought?

LH2 - you know you are amazing right? You are helping people IRL and here every day. You are truly a survivor. I give you so much credit for working on yourself to the extent that you have, facing your demons and learning to love yourself.

(((((LH2)))))

BTW, I think "chuffed" is a very, ummmmm, interesting word. Sounds like something unpleasant, as in I ate something bad and chuffed it up later!!!

ETA: BT, not so much moxie but insatiable curiousity to understand this thing. The journals are painful but they give me a window into his thinking that I did not previously have. In fact, I believe he is as fascinated with them as I. He is reading them every night. We are coming to the conclusion that at the point of his life when he started on the slippery slope he may have been in the early phases of depression. I wish I had journaled more so I could "see" my thoughts on paper.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 5:08 PM, June 3rd (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart2
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Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 3:02 AM, June 4th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chuffed
To be very pleased, proud or happy with yourself

Ammerriccans.Sigh.

***
LostS,
What would you like to do for your anniversary next week? Do you think you could subtract the 3 years and just remember the times before, and the recent times?

Our 14th anniversary is on the 17th. If I have to subtract the number of years of his LTAs, I will end up in the negative!

***
Thank you for the good vibes, Tribe.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, June 4th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

'I don't want to get burned'
. . . and primeval instint to survive will force him to strike his brother down before his brother strikes him down.

HS - it's so good to see you posting again. I always worry when I don't see you here. I read these excerpts from your H's journal and I found it so interesting that in two separate passages he mentions the same theme, burn before you get burned. I wonder if that is a common theme in his journals. Who hurt him so badly that he had such a strong need to build walls around himself???
You are both so brave and for the record, he is so damn lucky to have you and I know he knows it too.
Thank you for sharing these with us and also for the record, I would love to hear more if you are willing to share them with us.
The discussion on anniversaries is another interesting topic. My H is now obsessed with celebrating our wedding anniversary. Every year since d-day starting with the first one which was exactly one month and 2 days after d-day, my H starts talking about how we can celebrate. Celebrate what fucktard?? When we celebrated our 25th, he had probably just begun his LTA or may have been in it for a while for all I know. Our children surprised us with a big party and he grinned and smiled and danced me around the floor like we were the perfect couple. Every time I look at pictures from that night I am amazed at how incredibly self-delusional he was. It reminds me of what he said early on, that he was so pleased with himself that he could keep 2 women happy.
Now he continues to act as if our anniversary is something to celebrate and every time I protest, he gets more insistent that we need to mark this day. That is another reason I think about having a vow renewal ceremony - so that we can establish a new day that I might feel worth celebrating.
LH - You are an amazing woman and I'm sure you know that all of us here are quite chuffed with you as well.
Can we be chuffed with you or can you only be chuffed with yourself.
Gang, I just have to say that I love our little corner of SI and I am so thankful for the friendships we have even if it's not IRL - but I have to say that it absolutely feels like RL to me. Hugs and to all!!!

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 7:28 AM, June 4th (Thursday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, June 4th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I found it so interesting that in two separate passages he mentions the same theme, burn before you get burned. I wonder if that is a common theme in his journals.

What is "good" (?) about these journals is that they are consistent with what he has learned about himself in IC. The "strike first" mentality came out immediately after dday #1. All the while I had foolishly thought we were on the same team and he was trying to "win". He understands it now (I believe) but our whole marriage he was "striking first". I am sure this comes from FOO where everyone was out for themselves. He was the youngest and was hurt one way or another by everyone in his family. What is weird is that the journals reveal this side of him that WANTS to see others get hurt (some of the writing is very, very disturbing. Enough so that I would never share it even here) So his hurt must have been so great that he wanted to see everyone hurt too. So sad.

Another theme is walls. He talks a lot about not letting anyone all the way in as you will just get hurt. He writes (and, therefore was aware) that you cannot have a true relationship with another human without letting them all the way in but then you are subjecting yourself to possible hurt. Obviously, he never let me all the way in.

Another theme throughout is the lack of self-esteem and the need for external validation. He was very, very good at sports and was actually drafted by a professional sports team. He did not pursue this and followed a business career instead. As soon as he stopped sports, he lost the limelight and I think it affected him deeply. Obviously, the women quickly replaced the crowds in the ego-boosting department.

Another theme is confusion over what life is supposed to be. A part of him "sees" that life can be good. Another part of him sees it as plastic and false. He is frozen between these worlds unable to decide (inability to commit and make decisions is another constant theme). This is probably around the time he split those two worlds and compartmentalized them.

I think it is interesting that a lot of the characteristics that our WS share are in these journals. It helps me as it confirms that our observations and analysis are not far off. I guess we can all feel CHUFFED that we got it right!

The whole anniversary thing...

Celebrate what fucktard??

My thoughts exactly.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, June 4th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry for not checking in. Before I catch up the rest (only got to end of pg 9), I just want to send hugs to LostH at the end of this day. I know you’ve probably gone off to bed now, but I hope you got through it okay and observed your rituals peacefully. A sad day of quiet reflection for you..

And I think BT’s right on the dates/anniversaries thing, at least it’s the same with my H. Took him years to remember my birthday and he still puzzles over the boys and his parents. Ask him my side of the family and he hasn’t a clue. Except my twin brother’s b’day.

I had a great meet with an SI sister – Captiva – last week. Could have stayed all afternoon just chatting. Went to the flicks to see Angels and Demons with FWH. Started with some gastric thing on Sat that will not go away. Still feel jaded, but better than yesterday.

Catch up tomorrow.
(((((Tribe)))))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
lostsuol
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Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 6:37 PM, June 4th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostS, did you do the first counseling session?

Yes I had my first session. I felt comfortable with the therapist and will have another later in June. We will formulate a plan then.

LostS,
What would you like to do for your anniversary next week? Do you think you could subtract the 3 years and just remember the times before, and the recent times?

I don't know. I only know I don't have the same feelings about the anniversary date any more. His A started about 5 months after our 30th anniversary which we celebrated as a very special occasion. I had absolutely no idea that we weren't on the same page about our marriage. The OW being a co-worker in our home city was such a slap in the face. Moving back here without knowing that my marriage was a lie still stings. So many important family events during those years, included the marriages of our oldest and youngest children, are now tainted. Our middle son married 10 months after Dday and I was the one who went to be with him as FWH had a business function that couldn't be postponed. Putting on a happy face during this time made me more of an emotional mess. I felt like such a hypocrite at the wedding. I feel like I'm bi-polar - highs and lows with no warning - still so little time when I don't have the A on my mind.

Actually we are going out of town the next day for a week in which I'll be assisting at an AGM for a work-related board that FWH is co-ordinating, then having a few days together at a resort before returning home to wait for grandchild #2.

WincingAtLight wrote something that touched me today in Reconciliation:
"My forever marriage ended on D-day. Now I'm married as long as the current relationship suits me and accomplishes the tasks it needs to accomplish. R doesn't have to be like standing up in front of the church and taking vows. It doesn't have to be approached with the same moral weight.
It's just a decision to give things a little while longer and see where they go."

Like WaL my 'forever' marriage is gone. His view on R is more cynical but his WW is not my FWH.

Hey UKg! glad to see you post. I was worried.

FnF... I too would like a new day to celebrate but I can't be the one to instigate it. Maybe some day but at this point I'm not healed enough to have a vow renewal. Perhaps IC will improve my state of mind. I hope so.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow. Thank you for sharing this with us shirley. You have such strength and courage to do this.

I agree in that your H’s journals show a common theme and way of thinking that we can all relate to. FWH was on valium at 18. When he first told me, I thought it was just one of those angst ridden teenage things that he took but maybe didn’t need. I have never lived in an alternate dark world – I live here, in reality. I cannot imagine feeling isolated in the way he has. Alone, yes. Isolated, no. I will let him read what you have written here. shirley and see if he can identify with EO in any way, esp as he felt he was always having to prove and push himself, never really relaxing. Everything had and has to be grasped at, held tightly, examined closely, wondered at with an intensity I don’t understand. I know I bore you with these lines, but reading your posts brought this stanza to mind, once again another of FWH’s.

These are the emotions that built you, sustain you
When all doubts creep in and vitality creeps out.
They are not the undone years, the hopelessness,
Nor are they the simple folly of our salad days,
Easily erased, easily replaced with calming logic.
Sift carefully through them and seek out the best,
Wildest, gut-ripping, breathtaking moments, and
Then grab them greedily and stuff them back inside,
Turning recklessly to tears of ecstasy from the sinking,
Slowly crushing despair and agony of unfulfillment.
These are the fabrics of our lives, the base materials,
And you cannot deny the man that you have been,
Nor the woman that you might have been, spinning,
Whirling your blood-red dress high above your head.
Worse still is to shrink back when they return, now,
Offering you the hope of your own puny resurrection.

He refers to them as his "shadowlands"
It’s interesting that EO is reading thse journals from a removed viewpoint now. Does he recognise much of himself in those writings? I kept a diary from 6th form to college. Apparently, back before we m'd, I let H read them before burning them. I don’t remember doing that, but he must have “known” me a heck of a lot better than I did him. Bet if I was to read them now, I’d cringe with embarrassment! I think he said they were “sweet”, whatever that means.

Interesting about the walls too. And the need for external validation. And the conflicting opinions on life, for FWH I think it would be the natural and spontaneous vs manufactured and false.

My H is now obsessed with celebrating our wedding anniversary. …..
every time I protest, he gets more insistent

Ditto. But likewise, I am “celebrate what?” A lie of a marriage? No thanks. The headstone was erected soon after dday, when I took my rings off. A commitment ceremony would be nice. Not a recommitment, mind seeing as he obviously wasn’t that “committed” on the day in question. But like LS, I realise I am nowhere near healed enough to contemplate giving any promises.

The “forever” idea of the marriage died.
“to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part.”
I did it all. The death was the death of the marriage. So that’s it. Until we can identify the relationship we want, we carry on trying to find the common ground to start over again. I have accepted that may never be, in which case we will part. I never was the person he wanted to marry, I just happened to be the one he married. He was not the man I thought he was. We have to find out, even at this late stage, if we are going to step out and be happy as a couple, not at that perfect couple everyone thought we were. And I don’t think he wants to put the work in for that; he just wants to turn the clock back to before dday. I have suggested he was happier then than he is now. Or that he should have managed the affair better than he did, stuck to The Rules. Rambling here. Better take myself off.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 7:34 AM, June 5th (Friday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
lovinlife
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Member # 17863
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Morning,

It is a beautiful sunny day here, and I have alot to get done today! I wanted to stop by before I put on my walking shoes and say hello.

((((((LH2))))))

I am feeling quite chuffed with myself.

Like usual I am a little late and I know what it means, but it still made me chuckle!

I will be keeping you in my thoughts today... wishing for a peaceful day...

UKG
I will be at "it" again! camping that is! We are leaving next Wed. for 5 days at Kentucky Lake. I sure hope it doesn't rain the whole time, but we still find plenty to keep us busy!

(((((HurtShirley)))))
How very strong and brave you are!!

Today is my Dad's 90th birthday! WOW
I am having a party/bbq for him tomorrow. It was suppose to be just family, but has progressed into quite a few others!

It should be fun. We use to host annual pig roasts, and haven't done anything this large in a long time.

I too met with a fellow SI sister, sufferingalot, and we are planning on getting together as much as possible. We have alot in common and had a really great evening, as well as a few too many beers!

Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!

Lovin


Together more than half our lives.

I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!

Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27


Posts: 1159 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Missouri
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't have much time to chat today. H is around all day looking over my shoulder. There are days when that really gets on my nerves.
I just wanted to drop in and let LH know that I'm thinking about her especially today.
(((((((((((LH)))))))))
HS - I find it so interesting that you found these journals now. I'm not very religious but I do believe in divine providence and I believe you were meant to find these journals at this point in time. If you had found them early on after d-day, EO would not have been able to deal with their content but having done so much work on himself, he is now able to go through these with you and you are both able to get a better understanding and appreciation of what his mindset was during those years. Again, thank you so much for sharing these with us.
UKG - Your H's writings are also pretty revealing. I envy you and HS for having this insight into your H's psyche. My H never writes and rarely reveals anything about himself. Even in C'ing he was so resistant to sharing his innermost thoughts. I wish I could get into his head. I think it must make it easier to understand them when you can go back and read what they were thinking and feeling.
Wishing the tribe a good weekend.
Hugs to all.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Turning recklessly to tears of ecstasy from the sinking,
Slowly crushing despair and agony of unfulfillment.

UKG - lack of fulfillment is a constant in these journals. It is even deeper than lack of fulfillment, it is a questioning of what would make him fulfilled. Obviously he tried OW and that didn't work. Booze and that didn't work. Smoking and that didn't work. It is so sad because if he had just stopped and looked around him, he had so much. Even before the kids, even before me, he WAS blessed to be given startling intelligence, incredible good looks and natural athleticism. He couldn't be satisfied with ANYTHING.

What is so sad for me is that I have slipped into his world. My kids are amazing. Last night DD#2 won multiple awards at her 8th grade graduation. I was proud of her but felt so of detached. I wanted to be sitting next to H and saying "look what WE did". Instead, I was thinkging, look what I did despite you. Really, really sad.

Yes the "forever" marriage is gone. There is a day-to-day, manage the family, try not to cry in front of the kids relationship. But the fairy tale and any vestiges of what that might mean are ancient history. My mother has stood by my father's side through 30 years of gradual, and ugly, decline due to MS. If EO came home tomorrow and told me he was diagnosed, I think I would say "you better figure out how you are going to handle it because I AM NOT GOING TO BE CHANGING YOUR DIAPERS!". No, that feeling of "I will do anything for you" is gone forever.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Shirley)))))))

I am sorry you are hurting, my Friend.
Going through those journals, no matter how much you try to intellectualise it, must be emotionally and spiritually exhausting.
I can only imagine how you must be feeling. Hang in there, Sweetie. You are doing so well. This IS a grieving process in many ways.

***
LostS
That was a very apt post from WAL. i guess for many of us, our forever M is gone.

So why are the IC sessions so far apart?

***
Thank you for the wishes for today. My DS would have been 11. The kids asked me to describe what he looked like, and I cant really remember...he has sort of become an almagamation of the other 3, KWIM? I didnt even see much of him as he was covered in tubes and I was only allowed to carry him for a short time after.
Anyway, I tried to keep this positive for the kids. Tomorrow we are releasing some balloons with their letters/card they made for him.
Sigh.
Another year.

***
Hey Ukg, Fnf, BT and Lovin!


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 3:49 PM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tomorrow we are releasing some balloons with their letters/card they made for him.

Such a sweet tribute. How wonderful that you are keeping your son's memory alive for them and in such a positive, loving way. So like you!
Last night DD#2 won multiple awards at her 8th grade graduation.

Congratulation to your DD and you for these special awards. Just soak up the joy that your children bring to you. I think that is how we get through this time. Even with all the hurt and pain, it's times like these that remind us that life can be good and worth celebrating. (((((HS))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 5:41 PM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostS
So why are the IC sessions so far apart?

Because the Dr. was going to be away, then I'll be away so the apptment is her 1st opening when I get back. I'd of liked to see her sooner but timing is off.
Last night DD#2 won multiple awards at her 8th grade graduation.
Congrats to your dd! It's good to hear that your kids are doing well. I can't even think how I'd manage if the A had been when our kids were younger. I was very much a single mom in the parenting dept. due to FWH's long hours and time away for work. I really doubt that I'd be able to function on their behalf since I can barely look after myself some days still! And I know that detached feeling as I 'go through the motions'. Or something good happens but my mind takes me to the negative thought as yours did.

Today is my Dad's 90th birthday!
Happy Birthday to LovinLife's dad!

Weekend will be busy here as I'm hosting a baby shower for my dd. I wish I could say that the preparations are taking my mind off the LTA but I can't.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 7:55 PM, June 5th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH2-
Also sending my hugs and peaceful vibes as you remember your angel. We also do the releasing of balloons on the heavenly birthday of our baby boy, and let our kids write messages to him. It is a beautiful way to remember them. Maybe our babies are friends up in heaven. I know they are watching over us. Although I have forgiven my H for his A, I really have to admit that I don't think I will ever forgive him for the fact that he was in it during our son's birth and death. To this day, I recognize him as the father, but when it comes to the grief I really feel that it is "mine" - that probably sounds crazy. But just admitting the reality of it.

Hugs,
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, June 6th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I read WAL's post in R on the new marriage and was very triggered by it. I hope I'm not out of line discussing it here. I'll pm this to him so it doesn't seem like I'm talking about him behind his back, which I'm not- just musing on the idea that he put out there.

I think one of the challenges of an LTA is figuring out the difference between surviving it and recovering from it. Certainly the first few years I think is devoted to survival by necessity, but after that it's up to us in some way to decide to go further.

And I think the new marriage he talks about is sort of a passive-aggressive FU to the WS that in the end will only hamper the BS's ability to recover rather than survive.

I know I'm not writing with incredible clarity here, but in some ways I'm finding the thinking behind staying in that kind of marriage similar to the thinking behind an A. They're both trajectories that allow people to live their lives without knowing the full truth about them. And to me the argument that they deserve it because they committed the first wrong is as invalid as the argument that the BS deserved it because they were imperfect.

Yes, I think WS's do have to bear our anger and tell us the truth and commit to looking inside themselves and walk the long road beside us, and if they can't or won't do that, then they deserve to lose us. But I don't think they deserve to have a fulfilling joyous marriage withheld for as long as it suits the BS. And if the BS truly can't ultimately get there (which is completely understandable) then they deserve to know that truth and be allowed to make decisions with that knowledge.

I think the true challenge is to reach deeper to find our way towards the new forever marriage as opposed to the right now marriage. I *do* think R should be approached with the same moral weight as marriage - assuming a truly remorseful and introspective FWS.

LH2- Hugs on your son's anniversary and happier hugs on your being chuffed.

UKgirl- Don't buy him any clothes

And now, to end this novella, I am in love with this song right now. I'm finding it so romantic and sad and hopeful all at the same time. Trigger warning- the video has a wedding and a bit of (marital) sex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBFgPN4LePQ


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, June 6th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostH. Thinking of you and the kids as you remember your angel. (((((LH)))))

I’ve posted over in Gen reaching out for some opinions as to whether I’m being unreasonably mean to FWH and this shopping for clothes business. He has been shopping with me, but not often. Any input would be welcome, esp as everyone here knows my sitch.

The postings from w_a_l can be incredibly insightful. But they can be pretty brutal at times, maybe severely opinionated would be a better description. They do make me think though. For me, the forever marriage somehow never was until dday. I felt that we did have an exceptional partnership and one made to last. No one goes into marriage with the thought of divorce on their minds, but we are all well aware of how common divorce is and that we could become one of those statistics. However, I did not go into marriage with my life planned and charted. As long as I felt secure, I was happy to have each and every one of my children. Even #4, when I cried when I realised I was pregnant and didn’t want to be. Now, I would say to anyone, do not have more children than you can afford to bring up by yourself. But I’m digressing a little.

I don’t think I am being P/A. I am waiting for FWH to be active. The business of not going shopping with him – why shouldn’t he learn to go shopping for himself? He has not booked a holiday for us (turns out that used to be my job, just didn’t realise it). And I mean a proper holiday. Before DS1,2&3 go off at the end of the summer. The taking care of his health and weight. I won’t nag him to see the doc, what to do about his diet, what to do about his bad back – I’ve had it with all that. He should do it. I've fixed his skin and scalp problems, given him exercise sheets for his back, given him massages until he fell asleep, got him to go to the chiropractor and the chiropodist, buying and making healthy food, etc, etc. I do realise that I was taking care of him and he hasn’t really taken care of me in the same way. Maybe he thinks that by earning the money and me being the SAHW&M has given him that right. I dunno. Am I suggesting he is the one being P/A?

He is not prepared to discuss the damage – or he’s tired of me going on about the A. We’re not in MC anymore and he has never done IC (that would be another example of him not taking an active role in repairing our m). He has “dealt” with the affair and, he says, he had “dealt” with it long before dday. But I wouldn’t know b/c he has never really told me the truth, not the type of truth I wanted – facts.

While he kept and continues to keep that side of himself (as in the lines in my post above, which btw, were written during the affair), then we will not have the type of marriage I long for and thought we had. I was and am his stability and reality. I’m not sure what he is to me, other than financial security and at least a known quantity. I hope for more, but I cannot work without his input and effort. But that doesn’t mean to say that what we have now isn’t worth staying for. I think I am happier with him than without him. And I’m sure that is the case for him too.

So – forever? How long is a piece of string?

And thanks for the link - I'll be on youtube for the rest of the day now!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:41 AM, June 6th (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

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