FNF - When yours came on I had an instant vision of the LTA tribe all bopping around one of our living room with our arms waving over our heads laughing. Great visual - hope it happens some day.
I dont think there are specific guidelines on the time of the A to consider it a "LTA". Just my opinion 2 or more years. My WH's A started a couple years into our M, he cant recall the year of course, but we will be married 21 years next Thursday. For obvious reasons, there will be no celebration.
Those who post on this forum are so knowledgeable, and so very smart. They are just good people, which is rare these days. Even if your situation isnt considered a LTA, post here if you need to.
There are days that I dont know how to keep going, the pain is too overwhelming. But I log on and just read, not even post, and I see I am not the only one. Others are making it. It can be done.
thanks again, i can't believe how many responses were really negative....my wh i'm sure will appreciate it when he reads it later.....
my wh came just short of accusing me of cheating....imagine that one
well gotta go again...i will defintely check back later...
Unfortunately, very few people have gone through what we have here in LTA. I know that all infidelity is devastating. One look at Elizabeth Edwards will tell you that. But, to have everything that you have known for so long blown away is just on another scale.
The level of distrust.
The level of deceit.
The level of involvement.
The level of emotion.
The level of knowledge.
The level of gaslighting.
The level of blameshifting.
I could go on forever but it is just the degree of it that is hard for others to understand.
and ever and ever and ever......
if u noticed whenever i made one of those lists, i ended it with i could go on and on....
thanks again hurtshirley...
i've tried very hard to live my life without regrets, and so far i have very few....and they are minor ones at best.....
He comes to me in the morning and says he had an inappropriate online relationship with a girl he knew from high school. This OW was M and pursuiing H- he ate it up, but when it got too explicit he started trying to back out. Obviously didn't have the balls to just do it- Her H found phone bills/emails on this social website that most people (me, too) are on. He calls my H the night before i found out. H tells me next morning. That day OW's H and my H talk, he confesses but at this point OW thinks after 2 weeks of talking and telling him she wants him that she is going to leave her H for mine My H with her H there (and before I even asked him to) told them he loves me, it was a huge mistake, etc. Since then there has been no contact. But I found that since January he has been talking on the phone with various girls he knew from high school - basically acting out. Our original R terms were he was supposed to tell me about ANY women he was talking to on the phone, and for the past 3 1/2 years he basically just didn't have ANY female friends.
He is back in IC, I am back in IC. At first I was going to D immediately, but good friends talked me out of it. I figure he did tell me (of course who knows if it was the H finding out and he was scared), he never had any physical relationship with her, and he has true remorse.
But I am scared as hell. How could he be so good and I let up on him after almost 4 years and then do THIS? He says it was the high of her telling him she wanted him and found him attractive. And it sounds like he was actually having guilt feelings immediately when it turned inappropriate. BUT I am scared as hell that this is not just a guy who had those issues to have an LTA- now he has a pattern. And I want to give him another chance, but he's running out of chances. He volunteered to cut off contact with any female friends.
BUT here's where I need you, TRIBE. WHAT do you guys think should even be the TERMS of an R (other than IC of course)? This ONLINE crap is insidious and accountability is really, really tough to monitor. I can't do a keylogger because he would know (he's very tech savy). And I can't completely cut him off a computer since he works from home and it is his job. I feel STUCK now, because last time with the out of state LTA OW it was easier to monitor and most of their contact was via phone. Phone bills I can, and will again, monitor.
SO, any ideas on HOW I let him earn trust? I feel like this is going to eat at me and ruin any chance of R. And of course I considered leaving after him being able to "relapse" - but we do have two little girls. I am handling dday much better- the hard part is that it was a relapse. The easy part is that it was NOTHING like the LTA. He has no feelings for her, nothing with her, didn't know her long, and he actually told her that they were out of line before they got outed by OW's H. She, by the way, was crushed that my H ditched her (according to OW's H that I spoke to and confirmed things with after the fact).
Guys, I hope I am not scaring anyone off (with my H having messed up again). But I had a home here for a long, long time. And my H is still the guy that had an LTA and NOW a "mini-online A"
Love you guys,
i sent you a pm
my wh has started to read the thread, midway thru he opted to post.....
Like Brooke said though, once the adrenalin fizzles out, you might end up feeling quite empty and forlorn.
NOONE can understand what a whole M-worth of infidelity and abuse can do to a person, until they have been through it. NOONE can understand how you can break after dday, and then how you are ground into zillions of little pieces with the subsequent gaslighting, trickletruth, etc etc, unless they have been through it.
However, Sweetie, I dont know if you meant it tongue-in-cheek, but if you didnt, please please dont ever go down the A route yourself.
Theres not much we LTA BSs can hold onto after dday...it seems like we have lost our world, our sanity, our reality.
However, as time passes, we need to hold onto what we do have - our integrity and slowly build up from there. Dont do anything that will make you lose that or give your H the upperhand.
BTW, I read your H's post. I truly hope that this incident lit a bulb for him and that he is finally willing and able to come clean on your terms. If anything, this would have made this whole incident worth it, IMHO.
Thank you for the responses for songs.
That man's hair Bet he shampoos twice AND conditions! !
Fnf, I was so sure you were going to link a C&W song and then you go disco on me.
Here is one of my all-time happy songs, guaranteed to make me smile no matter how low I feel.
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
Firstly, I am in awe with the way you are handling all this. Big hugs.
Its not just the EA with the OW you are dealing with but the inappropriateness with the other high school friends as well. It looks like he let his boundaries go really lax and I guess he will explore that in IC.
Secondly, your question.
Short of linking up CCTVs in the house, and turning your home into the Big Brother house, I cant see how you could monitor him. But I guess you got that.
My H works some days from home too, and I dont know which is more "dangerous" - him on his lonesome with his computer or out in the world.
I can only imagine how scared you must be feeling, HB. The trust? I guess he will have to start from bottom again and work acc to your needs and timetable. He knows you will have all your walls up and that he has alot of hard work to do.
What do you need him to do? What will help you through this..obviously this is subject to an ongoing review.
Sorry if I am waffling, HB. I am out of my depth here, as you can see.
Sending you warm hugs and healing thoughts.
Btw, you call that a vent!
I'm so sorry for what has happened. I can't give you advice, but I can tell you what I believe I would do if the same happened to me.
My words are harsh, but it is what I would want from the tribe if I were in your place. So I am going to put it out there, in case you are the same. If you don't want that, stop reading now.
First, I would not minimize it. That's what I did the first time around with disastrous results. I would do my very best to not go into denial. I would force myself not to look for the good in his actions. I would not be an optimist, not bury my head in the sand. He would get no benefit of the doubt. This time around I would be a realist.
That means, in part, that I would accept that his version of the story includes multiple betrayals with multiple women. It means accepting that he only came clean after being caught by another spouse. And it means accepting that the true story is probably worse than the version I was given. But even if it isn't, his version is bad enough to make me accept that the character flaws that allowed the LTA are still there, still active, still able to destroy me.
Second, I would create an exit plan. I would put aside money, if I had it. If not, I would do what I needed to get it. I would draw up a separate will, change the beneficiary on my life insurance, give my medical power of attorney to my sister, and as much as was possible I would separate my financial life/assets from his. And it would remain that way forever.
Third, I would think really hard about even considering reconciliation. If this happened to me, I don't think I would want to reconcile. I think it would kill any feelings I had for him. I could be wrong about that, but that's what I believe.
I would certainly not give him another chance right off the bat. What he did was too bad, frankly. If I didn't kick him out of the house immediately, I would certainly let him know that I was not sure I would remain married to him and that I would decide when I was good and ready. If he couldn't live with that uncertainty, fuck him.
Fourth, I would take no responsibility whatsoever for the reconciliation. I wouldn't be asking him for anything. It would be up to him to come up with a plan to get me to stay, even initially. What is he willing to do to get you to stay? After what he's done, if he isn't willing to work his ass off for this marriage, he isn't worth staying with, IMO.
Fifth, I would get myself to IC as fast as I could.
HB, my friend, remember your worth and value as a person. You are a smart, beautiful, woman. You and your sweeties deserve so much better. My one piece of advice to you is this: do not settle. Do what you need to do to ensure that you get the kind of life you deserve.
[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 10:25 AM, May 9th (Saturday)]
Long time no post from me -- sorry I've been AWOL. I've been meaning to catch up for a long time, and now it'll be especially difficult since we have "new digs" and I've missed the history of the past few months. Will do my best, tho.
Heartbroken -- I'm so sorry for what you're going through right now. My WH, also, had on-line As; 2 of his 3 OW were on-line. And you're right that the internet is so insidious, and it's so hard to check and verify. My H offered to install a keylogger on his computer, but I declined. After all, if he knew it was there, he'd just find another computer to use for any illicit activity. No advice for you -- I'm still in the thick of it.
Hugs to all who are hurting now.
A quick update -- I've now officially moved to the new city (and state), found and moved into a rental house with WH, found a job and have been working about 1 month. WH has continued to act remorseful, apparently trying his best to R.
We celebrated my H's birthday, our DD's graduation from grad school ( ) and our 30th "anniversary", all in a 2-week period.
I'm not really sure how I'm feeling these days. I still feel numb. I know that things have been busy, and finding a house and job were paramount until now. But I sure didn't feel like celebrating a birthday, or an anniversary. I know you all understand.
Also, we had a setback, last month. I found an e-mail in WH's trash bin. It states "I saw your ad -- please call me at ### (business cell #) to schedule a massage." I checked the ad -- she gives massages dressed in *lingerie* for her client's "visual pleasure". And promises 100% client satisfaction.
So, I confront him and he claims he did not see the same ad that I did, he was just trying to schedule a real massage and found her on a google list of massage therapists. Do I believe him? I have no idea -- he sounded so honest and convincing. I asked him to see a CSAT for an evaluation just in case (he admits to a porn addiction, but nothing else), and he readily agreed and had his first visit. He's scheduled to go in for a follow-up in a couple of weeks.
I have no idea what to expect out of the next few weeks and months. I'll be starting IC soon, then we'll go to MC.
And I continue to live up to my screen name -- because I don't know what else to do.
[This message edited by gettingthrutoday at 12:45 PM, May 9th (Saturday)]
This ONLINE crap is insidious and accountability is really, really tough to monitor. I can't do a keylogger because he would know (he's very tech savy). And I can't completely cut him off a computer since he works from home and it is his job. I feel STUCK now, because last time with the out of state LTA OW it was easier to monitor and most of their contact was via phone. Phone bills I can, and will again, monitor.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:49 PM, May 9th (Saturday)]
Please DO NOT minimize this!
and NOW a "mini-online A"
First, are you sure this is the WHOLE story? I am suspicious that this was going on for more than two weeks if she was ready to dump her H. Second, an EA or online A, is a PA without the opportunity. Are you sure, if he had the chance, that this wouldn't have gone further.
Second, he is in contact with OTHER girls from High School. What is this about? Why all the old high school girls? Do they know about the online A with the other?
Third, if no contact with ANY woman without your express permission was one of the terms of R then HE WAS NOT IN R. HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING AND HE HID IT FROM YOU. <<<<<<GIANT RED FLAG>>>>>>
Lying and hiding would be it for me. I just couldn't do it again.
I agree with BT and FNF. I would not even consider R yet. I would have him find a place to stay. I would start separating finances and get myself to a safe financial position. I would do this to protect myself and my children. Please, god, if this happens give me the strength to do this.
Please, god, if this happens give me the strength to do this.
The good news for me -- my job here is better than what I had in our former city, and I earn more here. So, if we end up S or D, at least I'll be able to support myself. That alone gives me a measure of comfort.
I am in no way minimizing H's behavior. Believe me, if you knew me IRL you would know that. I know he screwed up, and I know he blew multiple opportunities to come clean. I do have proof that he DECLINED to meet with the online OW in person even when she was urging him to. I do know with proof that he was only talking to her for a two week period. This does not excuse his behavior- at all. But I think I have considered this in assessing whether or not he is truly remorseful or is basically thinking I am going to stay and be his doormat.
BT- I am fortunate that I am financially secure and so an exit plan is not a huge concern for me. If anything, it would be more a concern for him since he brings in very little income right now. Almost nothing. BUT I think I am going to check in to a post-nuptial agreement.
I am choosing to R, but of course letting H show me that he is working his ass off to get at the roots this time. I think I owe it to the girls to do that, because H has shown that he IS capable of being the H that I need. He fell, and he fell hard. But he has been accountable again and knows that this will be an uphill battle. I think the difficulty I cope with is that originally I thought the LTA was more the "perfect storm" that was its cause- NOW I see H has more of an addiction. This means a different strategy and needs to be addressed in a different manner. And I do NOT plan on sticking around to let him do this to me indefinetly...... Not going to happen. But I do feel like him getting into IC, etc. has shown a willingness to submit himself to the pain of addressing his issues- facing them head on.
Anyway, I am also implementing STRATEGY 1 from Dday 1 = FOCUS ON ME. Taking care of myself- getting to working out, doing things with friends, etc. I need to be good to me- whether I stay in this M or not. I HOPE that my M can be saved, but I will not remain at any cost. I do have more self worth than that- MY IC was amazed at my resiliance.
Anyway, I am taking BTs advice and going to turn the tables on H to ask him to lay out what HE is going to do. BUT I am also going to come up with my list- I don't want an R to be on "his terms" so to speak.
So that's it for now, guys- just trying to focus on getting myself back. Still love him- still cautiously giving him a chance. Still being a loving wife to him despite his screw ups, but with him knowing that it comes with a price- I will not stay unless he's willing to confront his demons. And if he is an ADDICT then this means he (and maybe we) will be addressing this as a life long issue. If I know that, I can work with it as long as he stays the true course honestly.
Thank you for believing in me, Tribe. I never thought I would be having another dday-but I will get through this.
Please know that i don't post much, but I read and check in on all of you weekly, sometimes daily.
and for those of you who have lost moms....celebrate their lives....that is truly what a mom wants for her children......and yes is sucks that she can't be with you, but celebrate her life anyway, if she loved you that is what she would want for you......
so happy mothers day tribe.......