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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK,

I do make it sound like a step-by-step process, and it wasn't like that in reality. That's just the way I can write about it so it makes some kind of sense to me. In reality, it was like anything else in life, full of fits and starts, wrong turns, false steps, paralyzing fear and leaps of faith.

But there were some key decisions that I made that were turning points, the top one being the decision to be all in or all out despite my remaining doubts and questions. Also, the realization of how much personal power I had to make or break the marriage or really anything I get into. How much of it is simply about me and what I choose to be. The difference between acting from what I believe rather than reacting to others and all their crazy shit.

UK, if I could give one piece of advice to you it would be to quit romanticizing your H's affair. She is not the love of his life. She is his sneak fuck. The one nobody, including him, wanted him to end up with. He could dress her up in poetry and set her in expensive hotels, but at bottom she was secondary. She did not stand between you all your lives. She was just someone whose character he knew was low enough to cheat with him when he got the itch. But she was not someone he wanted for the long-term -- he proved that twice.

You make her so powerful by saying that she stood between you your whole marriage. I think that is just false. It's like some Byron-esque notion of fated love that is about as real as Heathcliff (not to mix my authors and time periods).

Honestly, I think those blinding romantic notions that we all got from growing up on the romantics and Austen and the Brontes and Romeo&Juliette warp our minds by giving us a ridiculous and unrealistic portrait of love and relationships and how they work. And how men and women are. That kind of love that is imbued with such longing and intensity isn't love at all. It's complete projection. Sometimes it's the gateway to love, but that's all. That's why most affairs turn to ash when the light is shone on them -- because all those intense, blinding feelings have no actual substance. Real love is so much different and so much better than that.

Small rant, sorry. Second one in a few days on the same subject. Jeez.

BT

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 7:25 AM, June 8th (Monday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Suitey
♀ Member
Member # 14846
Default  Posted: 9:42 AM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by Suitey at 10:20 PM, June 10th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 784 | Registered: Jun 2007
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So - does that classify as LTA?

IMO, Yes. Sorry Suitey.

***

UK, if I could give one piece of advice to you it would be to quit romanticizing your H's affair. She is not the love of his life. She is his sneak fuck. The one nobody, including him, wanted him to end up with

Hear Hear!!!
Let her go, Uk. Let her ghost scurry back to her place under that rock. She does not belong here now and never did before.

(((((Ukg)))))

***
BT,
You rock.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do recognise that this is all down to him. His decisions have brought us to this point. But because it was all about him, that is where my focus lies rather than on myself. Until I can throw off this mistrust and regain some belief in him, I am not willing to make any commitment to a “new” marriage. I do realise I cannot spent the rest of time with one foot pointing to the exit, but I’m damned if I’m ever going to let him that close to me again. The man continued to lie, even in MC, for over two years. The result is that I don’t see how I can trust him with my heart again. The lies may not seem much to him, but they speak volumes to me about how he didn’t and doesn’t want to really face up to what he has done. Yes, his action speak volumes in that he wants to stay with me, but his words (or lack of) make me wonder if he just reckoned I was the better bet overall

i could absolutley relate to this uk girl.....

bt question: if the lies continue....just HOW??????


bt your reconciliation is heartwarming to say the least.....i've grown so cynical about marriage in general

hs i can truly feel your pain, reading those journals must be so damned enlightening and painful

why do these men marry?

suitey welcome to lta, so sorry you are here, but it is a place of really wonderful people......

go to the healing library if you have not already done so


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh and uk girl i posted on your thread in general....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Suitey
♀ Member
Member # 14846
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thx Miracle, I have met wonderful people elsewhere and figured I might fit in here a bit. His 2nd OW that I know about - and I believe there were more, he just isn't admitting to them - I am not sure how long she lasted, at least 4 months but they were co-worker/friends for about 20 years. Sometimes I think back on odd things...like in 05 she was moving (got her 3rd divorce, what a surprise!) out in the country, about 1 1/2 hours from here and she asked WH to help her. At the time, he had been the prez of their firefighters union. Had told me she came to him about possible sexual harassment and that she was very selfish, very snobbishy, very out to get people.....and he told me then that she had "cried on his shoulder" over a break up she had with a MM. So I think....why did she ask YOU to help her move? And a part of me thinks it might have started back then, but he will only admit to Thanksgiving of 06-Feb of 07 (when he got busted by the phone bill) and I think it is because I have the evidence in the phone bill and maybe he was just more careful prior to that? It was just strange for him to be asked to help her move.

But the other one...the one he met prior to us getting married, even though they both admit to physically being together only twice, he called her a lot. Like every shift he worked, he would call her. Towards the end, before I looked at that exceptionaly fat phone bill, he was calling her lots because the OW2 was for some reason not feeling "right" about their thing. So he was trying to get this "friend" lined up for sex, even though he told me she weighed about 350 and it was gross and awkward and she said it was too and that they just "did it" and he left. Yet all of a sudden, this man who complained of all our kids' activities started volunteering to take them to dance class when he was home. The reason? He would wait outside in the car and call the heavy one and talk the entire time, as he was getting her lined up because, as he told me, he was so horny, and he knew she would be easy if the other one stopped things. HELLO??? What about me?? Geesh, never thought of having sex w/your own wife, did you? We had a dry spell then. With our jobs, we both had so much mandatory overtime and then when he worked his 24, 48 or sometimes 72 hour shifts, I ran myself ragged with the kids. We just didn't make time for ourselves. But I didn't do what he did. In fact, I tried several times to plan things and talk to him about it, but he never wanted to talk; told me myfeelings were "stupid" and would often cancel our plans due to things coming up. I see now that the other women were there.

The hard part is the "friend" one. For lots of reasons. One is, she does what I do for a living, so we have that in common and I could run into her at trainings, etc. 2 - she is tall and blonde like me, but heavy. (I was bigger, not like her, but went on that good ol' A diet and lost weight then started taking care of me for the first time since I got married, so I am working out and looking the best I have in a long time - jokes on him!!) But her presense prior to and throughout our marriage makes me feel like our 22 plus years of marriage are a facade, a big sham, a joke. That they meant nothing to him. The time we were starting our family was the time they had their first "encounter" and I had 3 miscarriages and that hurts me. He never talked about it with me but guess what? She knew about them. The prick, I hate him for that. At least the hatred is directed towards him now and not so much her - although she got divorced due to her husband fooling around on her - hello!!!! God, some people are so stupid. Anyway, he wants to R badly, his actions don't match his words and he gets angry whenever I mention or ask about it. He wants me to push it under the rug and just start over. But we had fake R - he told me I had the whole truth after much trickling of it and then this past Feb a HUGE lie came out that he had kept from me because he "risked it and felt it was worth it" and I have been off track since. I don't understand how you can start a relationship over that was based on lies to begin with especially when you are supposedly working at it and you continue to lie. How am I to trust him? And there is a part of me that thinks they got their stories together before and both said let's say only twice for the PA stuff. Coz he called her and the others as soon as I called him on the phone bill.

But he isn't really that smart to think that out...


God, its maddening!


Posts: 784 | Registered: Jun 2007
kalamity
♀ Member
Member # 21802
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Believe it or not, he is naturally a risk-averse man in every aspect of his life and yet he was willing to gamble all on this affair. The conclusion is that he had to know. Being risk-averse meant he HAD to take the chance to find out who he truly wanted to be with, or live the rest of his life never knowing and never quite being happy enough. He couldn’t up and leave me (too much at risk, personally and financially), but wasn’t willing to let her go untested.

UKG: Thank you for this post. The fact that my H never took risks in other areas of his life has added to my misery over this whole thing. This gave me an entirely different perspective - one that makes me less fearful of the A ever starting up again. WOW! I just wish it hadn't taken him 22+ years to figure it out!

There has been some discussion here about accepting support from FWS. Want to add my 2 cents. The only thing my FWH has identified as a problem in our M that involved me at all is that he felt like I didn't need him (I have always been VERY independent and he has always needed to be needed.). So...I have accepted his support, his hugs, everything he has offered. It has made a world of difference in his demeanor and it hasn't made me feel...whatever horrid feeling I thought I'd feel. It's actually kindof nice!

Hugs to everyone!


When it feels like your life is falling apart, perhaps it is falling in place.

BS(me)-56
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R


Posts: 104 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Nebraska
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT,

Thank you for your insight. Although is sounds logical and rational in hindsight, I am sure it was a great struggle at the time. Thanks for your support, I really needed it. I am trying to get to a place where I can accept was has happened and where I can see all the good things he is doing now. I still harbor grief for the marriage. I am angry that another human took it upon themselves to destroy my life. I am sad for my children and worried what the long=term impact might be on their relationships. But, as UKG said, I also know that I can't go through life with one foot out the door - that wouldn't be fair to anyone. Finally, I have some issues I still need to work on myself to make sure I keep myself healthy (too much wine).

I can't tell all of you how much it means to me to be struggling, to be standing on the edge of the cliff ready to jump and have the whole lot of you coming to my rescue and talking me off the ledge. You are all an amazing group and I feel priviledge to "know" you.

Hey, UKG, I have kept up with your post in general. If your H does goes to work nekkid, will you post pics?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:50 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anyway, he wants to R badly, his actions don't match his words and he gets angry whenever I mention or ask about it. He wants me to push it under the rug and just start over. But we had fake R - he told me I had the whole truth after much trickling of it and then this past Feb a HUGE lie came out that he had kept from me because he "risked it and felt it was worth it" and I have been off track since. I don't understand how you can start a relationship over that was based on lies to begin with especially when you are supposedly working at it and you continue to lie. How am I to trust him?

Suitey, first off. Don't listen to words just watch actions. Our Hs are masters at deceit. They can lie with the best of them. But they can't lie with their actions. If he gets angry, won't tell the truth, trickle truths, etc, he is not dying to R, he is dying to get you to forget about it and not willing to face what he has done.

Secondly, if he continues to lie and you catch him, you CAN'T trust him. He needs to understand this. I had to make my H realize that even "white lies" undermined any iota of trust. Dammit, I WANT TO KNOW if the pants make me look fat!! Is he in IC? Are you guys in MC?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Suitey
♀ Member
Member # 14846
Default  Posted: 8:34 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey HS, we tried counseling. We don't seem to be very lucky in that arena - the first guy turned to me adn actually said in shock how he could not understand how I could not trust WH as he seemed so open and upfront. Gee, you mean this guy here sitting next to me who haslied for over 20 years?

Tried another one. It was ugly. I was telling WH how I felt and he rolled his eyes and snickered. I told him to stop that as it made my feelings not seem important and he needed to validate them....the MC said something stupid and I got up and said, you are not for me...went to leave and she grabbed my arm trying to get me to stay. TOld her not to ever touch me again. Left w/her running after me and I told her basically what to do. She was rude, very opinionated - said I was like a drug addict/alcoholic who needed to forget about the truth - I have a brotehr who is an alcoholic and how dare she compare me to that. I had two ICs, one was good, but she works w/the moron and wasn't really helping me other than listening and I needed more than that.

General consensus is that WH is still lying or at least keeping lies about that time to himself. I showed him Joseph's letter about the puzzle pieces and he thought it was a good letter, but didn't make the connection to us.


And now my older daughter is pulling away as she is having boyfriend issues and I can't help her coz I can't even figure my marriage out!

I tend to lump all men into the same category these days. And it isn't too good of one at that.


Posts: 784 | Registered: Jun 2007
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 9:34 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

suitey....big big a 2 cents worth....

ALWAYS TRUST YOUR GUT

the trickle truth is deadly, its the number 1 killer of a marriage...second to the affair in the first place...

i too have fallen to trickle truth.......

please take care of yourself and your girls.....

post as often as you need, getting it out really helps.....

hugs to all

(((((tribe)))))

ukgirl: i'm with hs....would love to see the pix of him au'natural when he goes to work.....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 10:06 PM, June 8th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just wanted to say that we had a beautiful day yesterday.

Tomorrow is wedding anniversary. FWH brought me a 'romantic' card and flowers when he came home from work today. We are only home tomorrow then heading away but he says he wanted my to have them now anyway.

I'm feeling cautiously optimistic. Time will tell...


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, June 9th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostS,

I'm so happy for your good day. I hope the actual anniversary is even better.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, June 9th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsoul....

i hope your day today is a happy one filled with new memories for you


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, June 9th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsoul -

I am glad you had a good day yesterday. I think the flowers "even though you are going away" is touching. I hope you have another wonderful day today.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, June 9th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lovely that you had a good day and that Mr LS came through with the card and flowers. Wishing you another lovely day for your anniversary. Relax and enjoy.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, June 9th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostS,

***
Ukg,

Your H is sure being stubborn about the shopping.I wondering if this clothes shopping is a mask for something else between you two?
I may be off base here but I will give it a shot:
You both have been fairly well behaved since dday..no actuall "bad" behaviour esp from you. You have kept it together (for the DSs, IL's your folks etc) at a huge expense to yourself, IMO.
And I thinking if this clothes issue is something you both can actually fight on? Its a tangible issue; you both are digging your feet in...
You dont want to do this (for obvious reasons) and he is insisting he wants you..only you.
How do you feel about his insistence? Wanted or subjugated? Loved or ignored?
And I wonder how he is feeling? Rejected or powerless?
As you can tell..this has got me thinking..ouch.

***
Suitey,
Change your IC. You want more and sometimes just a good listener doesnt cut it, KWIM?
Re MC...I have heard some good stuff here about Imago therapists. I sure wish we would have been to one when H was open to MC. How does your H feel about MC anyway?

***

(((((Shirley))))))
Take care of yourself, Hon.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 2:35 PM, June 9th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much everyone for the good wishes. He's trying to leave work early but so far hasn't been able to.
I'm doing last minute things for the trip tomorrow (packing is not my forte) but all will be clean at least. Don't know about internet while away but I'm taking my laptop 'just in case'.
Going to take a short nap. Looking forward to dinner out after the hectic weekend (for a good cause of course - daughter & grandson #2)

{{{LTA}}} Take care of yourselves. You are important more than I can say.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, June 10th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HI all! Big hugs to the entire group. I want to take time to post later on the "foregiveness" question that I was asked.
But for now I wanted to share with you that H is back on track, being accountable, doing IC, etc. and he bought me a ring for our 10 year wedding aniversary- this is really a wedding set that is quite different with black diamonds (my favorite combo is silver & black jewelry)......
I had to share so here is the link:

http://www.belljewels.com/Matching_Sets-Black_Diamond_Set_Engagement_Ring_14k_White_Gold_1.html

Hope this worked! I'm not good at computer stuff...

HB




Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:49 PM, June 10th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostsuol, “see” you when you get back and here’s wishing you a relaxing and enjoyable time together. All part of the healing and reconciliation process.

HB – Wow. Just WOW! Veeerrryy nice!
Are you going to have a little ceremony for this? I think a weekend away, a gourmet dinner and champagne at the very least! How about a party? Can I come? Oh, and a new outfit. With shoes. And some other new jewellery to go with the black diamonds. A chauffeur driven car. Am I going too far?
It’s lovely.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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