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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, June 12th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, she gotta name? Or are we calling her Baby fnf?

Julia! I love that name. And maybe if I ask my DIL, I might be able to show her off when we meet up.
Thank you all for your good wishes. It's times like this that make me grateful for my life.
Wishing everyone a wonderful weekend.
Hugs to all!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, June 12th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

am now stuck because the teen years are the most volatile years when everything is hunky dory
it makes no sense for all of us to be miserable, but someday they will grow up and i won't have to be "stuck" anymore...

Miracle,
The "stuckness" wont go away when the kids are older, you know that right?
The only way I know of getting unstuck is to work on yourself, Miracle. Heal yourself and then no matter whats "outside" of you, wont matter so much.

Yes the situation sucks. Yes, we have no control over our WSs. But we dont have to be miserable ALL the time, KWIM?
Look inside yourself...what can you do for yourself to make you happy?
Remember the bitter lesson our WSs have learnt: those years lost will NEVER come back. Wouldnt you hate to look back on these years and regret the time wasted?
((((((Miracle)))))

****

~~~~~~~~~FNF~~~~~~~~~~~

Congratulations my friend.
Julia is a beautiful name.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, June 12th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, I love the name Julia. So pretty and traditional too. Hopefully, you will get the okay to post some pics.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:12 AM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Julia, sea shell eyes, windy smile, calls me
So I sing a song of love, Julia"

Lovely name.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:18 AM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKG - beautiful - thank you for posting that. I am going to copy that and give it to my son and DIL.
HS - I'll have to check with my son before posting a picture. Otherwise, we'll have to meet and I can show her off to you in person. My DD told me I'm not allowed to so I'll bring pictures of my grandson too.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCspJhQ_H5A
I love that track. You could sing it as a lullaby. I used to sing Paul Simon’s St Judy’s Comet to mine. And Don Mclean’s Wonderful Baby. That was when I had run out of traditional ones!

This is a bad time for me for pretty much the rest of the month. I can’t stand to keep going over it with FWH, so I just say “nothing” when he asks what the matter is. Truly, I don’t understand why he didn’t just go to her seeing as he sounded like that was what he was promising her. Texting/calling 20 times a day from the early hours right through until the early hours of the next day. WTF did they talk about? I mean, 4 o’clock in the fucking morning, Jeez.

I’m outta here and off down the pub.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 12:33 PM, June 13th (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Ukg.
Just wanted to send you some big hugs.

((((((((ukg)))))))))


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKG - sending you big hugs too and soon LH and I will be able to give them to you IRL. Hang in there and post, or rant, or do whatever you need to help yourself feel better.
Thank you so much for the link. I love it and have sent it to my son and DIL. I am going to practice this so that I can sing this to her when I rock her off to sleep.
(((((((((UKG)))))))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

June. This was the month before dday. WH spent so much time with her, and it was just THE month for her and them. It was her 50th (she made a big deal out of dates) and DS3’s 18th dday year. The one where WH said he “couldn’t remember” when her b’day was. Yeh, right. She saw more of him than I did!!! Certainly had more sex. My friend of the same name has her b’day on 25th just 2 days before MOW-bitchface. I don’t even want to go into the geographical complications of that time. Suffice to say, WH made sure I would be home (back with friend of same name) so he could have his fuckfest “celebration” with his ex-fiancee. Giving her the pressie bought with MINE and thereby hidden (my b’day’s 15 July)

Bearing in mind we live 80 miles north from her home and he worked in 100 miles south-west, he saw or stayed over with her on 12 throught to 16th, 22nd and 23rd, 26th and 27th and DS3 b’day is on 28. Not bad, eh? Worked his fat butt off. AND he asked her to MARRY him – again. And then dumped her 6wks later. Coward, fucking coward. I fucking hate June.

Okay, I'm off to mutter curses to her and him. Fuckwit.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart2
♀ Member
Member # 21793
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, June 13th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh Ukg.

Saw this article and hoped that it might help a little.

To forgive someone means that you consciously make the decision to set aside any desire to see a person hurt because of the hurt he or she caused you, and instead you wish that the person will recognize his or her hurtful behavior, feel sorrow for it, and learn to be a more considerate person.

This, too, like the first step, is not as easy as it sounds.

For the truth of the matter is that you cannot forgive someone until you have fully felt the pain he or she has caused you.

Pushing the pain into your unconscious, as described earlier, only makes forgiveness impossible because, as unconscious anger, the dark wish to harm the person who hurt you remains alive but out of sight.

And, with your animosity kept out of sight, it’s all too easy to present yourself as a “nice” person when, deep inside, you really remain an angry “victim.”[3]


Those who know true love act with confidence, straightforwardness, and honesty, whereas those who present themselves as nice are often merely hiding the depths of their anger behind a show of smiling appeasement.


For example, many persons who, for one reason or another, seek psychotherapy, would likely endorse the statement, “I am a forgiving person.” And they will resist any attempt to explore their unconscious associations for hidden angry feelings toward their parents, for example, saying that such exploration is just “parent bashing.”

But psychotherapy really has nothing to do with blaming others.

In order to live honestly and take full responsibility for your own life, you have to learn in psychotherapy to put your hurt and anger onto the “table” in front of you so you can examine your emotions consciously. And then, when it has been brought to the surface and acknowledged, it can be swept away in forgiveness. But, until this work has been done thoroughly, the statement “I am a forgiving person” is just an illusion.

And the illusion is shown for what it is when many unsuspecting persons say, “OK. I’ve talked about my traumas. I’ve forgiven everyone. It’s all on the table. But I’m still miserable. What’s wrong?” It’s as if, after having made what seems to be a simple act of forgiveness, they walk past that “table” and say, “What’s that odd smell?” And then, as they look more closely, and admit to all the things they have been hiding from themselves, they find an ugly, moldy mass of unconscious anger that has been growing secretly underneath the table. So that, too, has to be examined.


LTA BS

Dday#1 02.06.06
Dday#2 28.11.06


Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.


Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: London, UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, June 14th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKG,

Have you said all this to him? Does he know how much anger you have? How many questions are still there? Do you share this with him or do you just clam up with him when you get this angry?

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, June 14th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I sent FWH some texts I had in my drafts folder. Not nice, accusatory and spiteful, telling him about the dates and a couple of texts that went between them. He has said nothing. When I got up this morning, I saw I had sent them, so I apologised if he had read them and apologised in advance if he had not. He said he’d had them. He’s said nothing since. I think he is moving to ignoring is the way forward, unless I insist. So, I guess he knows how I’m hurting and he also knows that I do bottle it up. Losing the last shreds of my dignity over the months of ongoing discoveries was humiliating. The result is walls up and shut up. Just waiting for the day when the pain finally goes.

LostH, Thanks for your forgiveness article. Reminding met to look this up, which I’ve not read for months.
http://www.beyondaffairs.com/articles/12_steps_to_forgiveness.htm

I found this around the time I found SI. I was going through a really bad patch and wondered if I would ever stop feeling the pain enough to forgive. It would have helped if FWH had been more honest and up front about the affair, although I do recognise that his minimising and squashing down the emotional involvement, the number of times they met and the daily contact by mobile was part of his attempts at damage limitation. Of course, the damage became worse over time as I found out more and more. I don’t think he will ever realise just how it was death by a thousand cuts. He was lacerating me and killing me slowly with every discovery, little nicks followed by deep slashes. I copied this down and ran off a hard copy. I’ve dug it out and read it again. It makes sense to forgive as a BS in order to step out and be happy.

“Forgiveness is NOT condoning the wrong behavior. Forgiveness is NOT forgetting about it. Forgiveness is NOT denial, pretending it didn’t happen. Forgiveness does NOT mean the pain has gone away.
To truly forgive we must be aware of an important distinction: Forgiveness is not reconciliation with the person. Reconciliation is different. Forgiveness is one person’s moral response to another person’s injustice.”

Point 10 begins:
“What are the benefits of forgiveness?
1 It sets you free from the past.
2 It significantly reduces vulnerability to physical sickness in you. It reduces the amount of toxins in your body. Forgiveness will make you healthier.”

It’s a good article, pretty short with the 12 points ringing true.

HB, your posting started me thinking and much of your own conclusions agree with most things I have read on forgiveness. I am trying to begin with concentrating on how lucky I am – generally, I mean. I’ve never had health issues, I had all normal pregnancies and births, none of my children have had life threatening illnesses, they are all wonderful and I know I’ve done a decent job of bringing them up. I have no financial worries, we own our house, we have no debt. My H has never made me feel physically unsafe and (until dday) I felt I was valued and loved. The inability to forgive is harming no one but me and my relationship with H. But moving past that is so hard. It DOES feel that forgiveness would mean telling him that I have accepted the unacceptable.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, June 14th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hugs to all

((((ukgirl)))))i'm sorry for your pain this month....

i read this in another post and i loved it and wanted to share:

JOURNEY from being a victim to a survivor to a THRIVER

we all need to reach the latter part of that quote, a few of you have and yay for you.....

i for one will be a thriver...i jut wish i knew how without involving death and it wouldn't be mine....

suitey still praying for you !


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, June 14th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm confused, UKg. Did you send the texts unintentionally? If that's why you apologized to him then he probably thinks he's doing the right thing by not addressing them.

Maybe it's time for you two to head back to marriage counseling? I don't know how you can forgive if you are still tormented with big questions. I can see having some small detail type questions. But if you still have major ones, then it seems like you have to try to get those addressed.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:04 AM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes I did, BT. Well, not quite. After a day in the sun, we went down to our local pub with DS1&2 and after two bottles of Bud, I was quite drunk. I should have realised the combination factor at that point and stopped. There had been bands playing in the gardens all day. Two more and I was wrecked. H left us to finish our drinks and went home. And I sent the texts.

The big questions are not so much questions as his walking around the whole issue while appearing to address the problems. And because this is the case, I am sure I am making more of the affair than it really was and more of the EA/PA/whatever it was back in 1999 to whenever. And the suspected fling in 1992/93.

We had a call yesterday from someone we’ve not heard from in a long time. The widow of H’s friend at college. He died aged 45 in Oct 2000 after a heart attack brought on by an asthma seizure. A barrister without a will, would you believe. H was best man at his wedding, which was on our 5th wedding anni and pall bearer at his funeral. Anyway, H has flagellated himself over and again because he didn’t “call in” when he was driving home from the airport a couple of weeks before he died. I’m sure it was one of the things that tipped H into the abyss. And I also wonder if it signalled the end of whatever “distraction” he was having at the time, thereby leaving him with no escape from the real world. But then, if he isn’t prepared to talk about the fact that his writing started in 1999, two full years before the affair with MOW/ex-gf, then I am left with a blank page which I fill with assumptions.

How can I start on forgiveness when I don’t have the whole picture? Do I just draw a line and say “what’s done is done”, leave him with his box of secrets and move on in a realtionship that doesn’t quite dovetail?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:24 AM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Shirley, yesterday I offered FWH to read your posts about EO’s journals. Later, I asked if he could relate to anything. He said not as such, but he can understand the need to write it all down to try and make sense of his feelings and also to purge himself of the feelings. He read and skip-read from page 9 to yesterday. So far, he’s not said anything, although he has just come up to me and held me for several minutes, kissing my head. Maybe he has nothing TO say. But I think a few things hit a chord. Maybe he’ll open up after mulling things over.

I don’t know about more MC. I don’t know what he wants from me and us other than to try and wind the clock back a number of years and get back to what we had. Which of course, can’t be done.

Miracle – I saw that post too. Yes, we have to just to stick two fingers up at what has happened and not let it break us completely. Thanks for picking up on it and bringing that positive thought in here.

Gotta find that reason to smile a little every day again. However small.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I had the weirdest dream last night - really disgusting. I dreamt that I cut off someone's hands and stuffed them into a trash bag. Then, because I was worried that I might be thrown in jail, I took them out, stuffed them into brown paper bags and threw them into a stream. I can't remember too many of the details, like whose hands they were, or why I did that, but when I looked it up in my dream book the only thing I could reference was that hands symbolized power so I'm wondering this morning whose hands they might have been that I felt needed to be severed and disposed of. Who do I feel has power over me????
Creepy I know but I was wondering if anyone could help me understand this. I'm feeling so discombobulated this morning after a dream like that. I hope no one minds that I posted this gross dream but I am feeling very icky today because of it.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wonder if anyone would mind if I ramble a bit this morning. This is something I've been wanting to post but with all the excitement of the birth, I thought these feelings would go away and I wouldn't need to vent a little. Wrong again!
I've been feeling a little disconnected from my H lately. Believe it or not, it seemed to happen very shortly after I mentioned that I was actually thinking I'd like a recommitment ceremony.
Anyway, for a little background, my H is now working part-time and is around so much and I am finding it to be extremely stressful. My H is very, very, very high maintenance. He is easily bored, restless, needs constant stimulation (not always sexual either
) and is very impatient. He is extremely critical when he gets moody (oh yeah, he's moody too), and very defensive if I suggest something believing I am being critical.
I was thinking back to those years when he was involved in his LTA and remember how glad I was that he had such a full work schedule. I was also happy that the OW catered to him, never for a minute thinking they were involved physically. I actually encouraged their friendship and was thrilled to have her take him off my hands . I've been thinking a lot about this lately, how I would encourage him to go visit her, help her with her new home, take her to lunch. I was just so damn glad to get him "out of my hair" and it never crossed my mind that I was setting myself up for their betrayal. I'm not blaming myself but I have to admit that I was glad someone else shared the burden of his entertainment with me.
It has really been hitting me hard lately because being with my H practically full-time is driving me crazy. We are so different from each other, share very few interests, and are totally different in our temperments. He is constantly on edge and makes me so anxious and I'm always worried that he's not going to be able to live a traditional, comfortable married life. I love sitting at night, relaxing, reading a good book, talking with my friends and family, and he just can't sit still. Even when his family is here for a visit, he'll get up and walk away and leave me to entertain them. It's like he has ADHD - I mean this sincerely.
More than any of this though is the fact that lately some of his old habits that were particularly annoying are surfacing again. The one though that concerns me more than others is his constant criticism of women. I do believe he has a deep-seated hatred of women that goes very far back and he has never dealt with these negative feelings. When I call him on it, he denies it and so I'm thinking of writing down the negative comments and the dates to show him how often he makes them. He will hate that but it distresses me more than I can say.
The other day we were talking about a neighbor of ours from years ago who recently committed suicide. It was a total shock and very devastating. He said it was all the wife's fault. Now I can't go into details but he killed himself in a very violent way and I tried to tell my H that this was an indication of how troubled he was and had nothing to do with his wife - it was about this person's own deep depression and dark side. But he immediately wanted to blame her and he has in the past too. He made another negative comment last night to my DD about how "it was the mother's fault" when she was telling him a story. It is getting more and more constant. I know there is something very dangerous left unresolved here.
I am going to have a talk with him tonight. Please wish me luck and send us some positive vibes. I really feel my H is slipping again.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf sounds like a new episode of medium.....

sorry i have no idea on interperttinig dreams.....

on a positive note, there is a get together in the ny area, are there any lta'ers here .....it will be in august....

ukgirl i had posted on another thread about what matters on the knowing factor....for me i need to know all of it or i refuse to move forward in my marriage....there is a very real possibitlity that you will never know all the answers to your questions...and you will need to decide once and for all what you are going to do....because living with the doubt, the questions, the unending end to this phase will kill you......and you will be no closer to the answers you seek......this is my ponderance also.....i am trying to accpt my new realitiy as one of a marriage in name only, it will never be more then for me...accepting it is the difficult part, because of my need to know, letting go of the questions is tough, but i am trying....there is just no point.....

will you ever be satisfied with the answers or will you still have doubts

will you still question the past or let it rest.....

infidelity and its aftermath should not be a life sentence for us.....

it is up to us on whether or not we will let it invade every aspect of our being forever......

i think there is too much joy, too much fun out there...i refuse to live my life by his choices......

his choices dictated enough of my life, i will now dictate my own life.....

and even though i feel stuck in this marriage now, i promised myself it is only temporary....when i feel that my boys are ready it will be done!!!

((((((HUGS)))))) to all


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, June 15th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf sounds like a new episode of medium.....

I LOVE THAT SHOW!!!!
infidelity and its aftermath should not be a life sentence for us.....

AMEN to that Miracle!!!!!!!!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
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