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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:45 PM, July 12th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

weepy, the night I got my letter, for several minutes my wife said, "what do I do?" over and over and over again. She was in full panic mode until I gave her a hug. She explained it was a lady they just fired.. blah blah blah.. Then called OM wanting all spouses to meet! I said it will be OK. She took my letter and I haven't seen it since.

Oh well...

Just hurting a little right now after dinner with the kids.. I cannot even talk about when we were married and so young back in 1988... and those were such great fun memories for me ruined by her first A... I had to buy a new camera and cannot take enough new pictures to start new memories. At times, I've tried to force myself to look at old pictures over and over to try and see the good. I'm telling you, it is easier to leave and start a new life.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:48 PM, July 12th (Sunday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, July 12th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lostsoul...

CONGRATUALTIONS GRANDMA....

i pm'ed u for that photo...whenever u have time...i love babies...

tryn....you do realize that there is no such thing as starting clean....where you live does not matter as much as you think.....where the mind is , thats what matters.....i truly donot believe any of us can start fresh...especially those of us who do not have a before....this...all of this is now the before.....the mind will always remember this before no matter where you live.....

do you think there is ANY chance of your m continuing? A year or so after dday, I did an “emotional” divorce inasmuch as I no longer consider myself married. I don’t think I will ever think of us a married ever again, but that doesn’t mean to say that we couldn’t be in a relationship. It’s hard to put into words as it’s not a state of limbo, it is a definite and definable state to be in and it’s where I’m happier. I don’t feel trapped and know that if things change for the worse, I will have no guilt about leaving him. He felt no need to do right by me and so I owe him nothing. He selfishly did exactly what he wanted, without any regard or respect for me or this family. Knowing now that he was not there for me (or probably ever)

no chance of this marriage, emotional divorce already in progress, i already do not feel any more love for me, it seems to be dead....i will have no guilt divorcing him whatsoever...i owe him nothing...if anything he owes me....BIG TIME....he was selfish, and was never ther for me but once...and that was when my dad died...every other tragedy not only was he not there, but he emotionally tortured me as well....even having babies he didn't do the right thing.....and as far as a relationship goes, i no longer want his penis. i do however want a penis...just not his...

My IC would be the first, however to say, get out. Just proximity is going to affect your lifestyle. Our of sight, out of mind. And that the children would adjust and actually thrive in an atmosphere of less stress and tension.

weepy...my lifestyle will be affected no matter which way i go and as far as the kids go, well emotionally charged angry teenagers is never pretty much less thrivable....(made up a new word)...

redhair....first off, if he wants r, he needs to work for it, he is the one who needs to give things up, change jobs...basically do whatever it takes...and if he is not willing then i do not see where r is possible.....he's the one who put the 2 of you in this sich, he's the one who has to get all of you out of it.....will you be able to live with his in-actions?

as always

(((((tribe)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 7:06 AM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

good morning all.
I think I've found a way to share my photos with you.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2030723&id=1094830712&l=21589d2d6c

I'm off to the hospital to be with my dd and grandson. Camera battery is charging while I get ready!

the SI


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:36 AM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to the world, baby LS! Wonderful news and glad it all went well. I’ve taken a peek at your FB photos and he is soooo sweet, gorgeous! Well done to your darling precious daughter and hope she’s home soon with her bundle of joy. Hugs to you and for the baby.

Tryn, I rather think she immediately destroyed the letter, don’t you? It was the catalyst to out the A, so what was in it probably doesn’t really matter now. I read you are in IC, what about your W and are you both in MC?

Miracle, it seems you mind is made up, at least for now. But I can only see trouble ahead if you continue to be in the same house. What does your IC say about this arrangement you are proposing? Hugs hon, I can feel you are hurting badly right now. (((((iwam)))))

FWH and I have booked a getaway while DS4 is on his school exchange to Japan. A romantic couples’ 5* small hotel on a hillside on an island off N Africa. We go next Mon for a week. DS1&2 have said that they will deal with anything with reference to DS4 and they are very capable and unflappable, so I am now looking forward to some sun, strolling, maybe some spa treatments and spending healing time with FWH. It’s my b’day on Wed, so a trigger there, and we will be back home for the third antiversary on 29/30. But I’m hoping that it will be easier than previous years.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iwantamiracle...
you do realize that there is no such thing as starting clean
No, I guess I don't. Maybe it means something different to me?

I know 4 people in the last 2 years with wives that cheated on them. They all divorced rather quickly... within a year or so. They all tell me this... They don't have any daily thoughts of betrail, infidelity, trust, cheating... none at all. They tell me great new stories that are pretty exciting... lust stories... new love stories... new adventures. These new women in there lives are beautiful people... and I don't mean just physically. I can see they are living life again. They took care of themselves so to speak. That is what I call starting over... starting clean and fresh in one mannor... the other would be to make perfect of something old.

I have not set any time frame, but I know if I cannot get what I need to be happy in near future... I will start a new life without my wife... I want those feeling of lust again... being loved like you are the best thing ever... togetherness as one... and all that stuff.. I'm getting back in fighting weight again, 15 lbs from healthy weight range, down nearly 20 lbs... lifting weights too.

anyway... My IC suggested I do something new. So I've always loved to take pictures and thought I would take it to a new level. I thought I would share some of my art with you iwantamiracle. My new hobby to reflect on my life as it is with nature and hopefully leads to new beginning, new life and new interest. Cut and paste the link. http://www.flickr.com/photos/39426400@N08/show/

To share something like this is new for me... I've always been so private.. shy about sharing my feelings, my thoughts...so please don't say it's corny... lol.. Oh well, ya'll have a good day and talk to ya later.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:15 AM, July 13th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn,

I think, as a general rule, that men are more easily able to make clean breaks than women. Women are socialized to hold things together, that's our primary role in the family -- to do whatever is necessary to keep it going. That's a hard social imperative for us to go against.

I think it is what keeps many women in relationships long after it's clear to everyone else that they should leave.

If you get to the point where you are as sure as you can be that your wife can not/will not give you what you need and can make that break without a lifetime of future angst over it, I'd say go for it.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn....i went and looked at you beautful pix....i was feeling so serene, then came the picture with the sneakers, well i had to smile.....then the one with the i think it was some kind of tractor....and again i smiled, you've captured beauty and daily americana, i don't know if i am describing it quite well, but bottom line, because i am a bottom line kind of person, they are inspiring....

i think you should continue, and maybe take it a step further,,,,maybe teach a class to kids or adults...maybe your local school or library has programs that you could sign up to teach, or at the other end, maybe you could take some classes in advanced photography....either way i think you are on to something

thank you very much for sharing, share again, i could always use a smile or some inspiration..

on the other note about starting clean....its really not a possible scenario with someone you already have a realtionship with, but maybe for slightly different twist you can let go of the past and begin to build anew....court one another so to speak...try new things together...make a list of all the things you would like to do with each other and then do them.....find some new passions that you could both sink your teeth into so to speak...and tryn i am so wishin for you....

ukgirl...how exciting for your son in japan....what an amazing experience...try not think of the dates just go with the days of the week...don't look at a calendar...r u excited about you romantic getaway...are you both planning anything to do with each other perhaps...

and as far as my sich...i rally am o.k. with it, and yes i did talk to my counseler about it and she said that if i am o.k. with it then it could be really good for my kids....and really good for my kids is what i need...i made a choice to have children, i am making a choice to keep their family together, but once they are all done....formative years and possibly college for financial rasons then i want to have my own life without my wh....i would like him to leave because at that point i want my freedom to live my life completely and fully....i want a relationship with a man, a man with a working penis would be really nice....righ tnow i am not ready for a serious relationship...just a casual one with sex......and i am open to it, why shouldn't i be....i plan to be discreet, but i do plan on more then this sich of being a family.....and hell i certainly deserve all that and more......i've put up with alot over my entire marriage for reasons that were non-existant...no more...and no more waiting for someone else to do what they need to do so that i can be happy...only i can make me happy....and in a really weird way i am....don't get me wrong i still have some anger and hurt....thats not going away but it is lessening......i would love to be able to be done with the anger and the resentment and am working on it....the new book i am reading is called "the little book of letting go"...i constantly read books that can help me either understand or help me find and retain my true self....and being this proactive in my healing has definitely helped it to move along and actually give some peace.....

si has been such an amazing source for me, especially this forum.....thank you again to all for listening, answering, 2x4's, shared tears, hugs, shared good news....all of it....thank you....and a special thanks to ds and mh for starting this site...they have helped so many of us.....

check in again later


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oh...one more thing...lostsouls new grandson is absolutely gorgeous....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wanted to send a warm welcome to our newbies here - so sorry to see so many new members. It truly breaks my heart but you have found a good and safe place to come to for support, wisdom, and plenty of hugs.
tryn - loved the pictures. Very beautiful. I agree with Miracle that you could teach a course in photography.
Miracle - I do hope you are able to do this for your children but please make sure you are taking very good care of yourself. I don't think this will be easy but the fact that you are willing to give it a try for the sake of your children speaks volumes of how strong and special you are.
UKG - The trip sounds wonderful. I am very happy for you that this has worked out. I know these past few months have been tough but it seems like your H is really trying and so I hope this "romantic getaway" is exactly what YOU need. I do hope you'll take pictures and share them with us, even if they get poofed a few days later.
LS - CONGRATULATIONS!!! Your grandson is adorable. Isn't it so exciting? New life, happy families, so many precious moments to share. Thank you for sending us the link. Enjoy every second with them.
Weepy - good to see you again. Did you get a chance to see our photo from London before it got poofed?? You're sounding good and strong. Way to go.
LH2 - I hope you're doing well. You haven't dropped in much and I'm hoping it's just because you're very busy catching up after your vacation. Check in if you can and let us know how you're doing. Sending you one of my very big hugs!
HS - I also wanted to check in on you. I hope you and your mom and family are able to be together during this time. You are in my thoughts often. (((HS)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:57 PM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn, yep, those guys are in new relationships with wonderful women. If neither partner has been the one to have an affair, it’s quite likely that they will have lasting relationships. However, the stats for second m’s breaking down are not good, for third m’s, even worse. Yes, it’s great to have that “falling in love” (limerence, lust, call it what you will) feeling, but remember it was that feeling of falling in love, of being appreciated, being the sole focus of someone’s attention and thoughts, the constant texting and phone calls, etc that was such an attractive and addictive aspect of our WS’s affairs…..

It doesn’t and can’t last and for a new relationship to progress, it has to settle into something less intense, less adolescent and more accepting, comfortable and mature.

I’ve also heard numerous stories since my own dday, some lovely second marriage success stories and, I have to say, heard some spectacular failures. One of mybf’s m’d WH’s bf in 2004. She was blissfully happy, treated like a princess, as someone intelligent and worthwhile. He left her in their 9-bed gentleman’s residence with lawns terraced to the river frontage and they are now D’ing. Of the adulterous partner who moved in with the AP, only one couple are still together and that one is also looking decidedly iffy.

And your friends who are in new relationships are hardly likely to express sorrow or admit that they failed in some way, are they? Only one friend of mine who D’d before my dday said she was sorry that it had happened. The rest? Heck, no. Divorce was liberating, a means of growing and to find inner strength they didn’t know they had, an opportunity to get it right this time, a new start, and the kids were fine with it, blah, blah. Since my dday, I give people like that a side-long “oh yeh?” sort of look.

I guess I’m saying be careful. Look before you leap, don’t jump from the frying pan into the fire, only fools rush in where angels fear to tread. It’s not all Mills and Boon. Most people will tell you that it is a year of crap when you decide to D. Ironically, that is one of the reasons I decided to try on my m. If I was going to get a year of shit, I might as well look at what I was throwing away while getting my ducks lined up. I saw a solicitor so that I could have my feet in the starting block. My FWH has been remorseful from day one, which helps. But he’s told whopping lies, which doesn’t. Which is why I was still googling, still searching for answers over a year out before finally finding SI.

Having said all of that, I do share BT’s viewpoint – if you are not getting the full about turn from your WW, if you cannot stand what she has done, if you are filling up with bitterness and resentment, then separation and divorce would be the route to choose. But don’t let anyone tell you it’s easy. It’s not. Or that a “clean break” is just that. It’s not.

BTW, are you in MC?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
kalamity
♀ Member
Member # 21802
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome: tryn, redhair and shoestring. I must admit, I don't contribute much here, but get a wealth of assistance and support. You will find the same, I'm sure.

((Shirley)) My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family during this time of loss. May sweet memories sustain you.
((LS)) Congratulations on the new family member! Enjoy!
((UKg)) Have a marvelous week! It sounds awesome (I'm a little envious.)!

So much of our ability to R depends on our own character. I have always been a forgiver (To me, forgiving does not mean condoning or forgetting - just accepting that it cannot be changed.). I have never hung onto anger or misery, nor am I a vengeful person. These character traits have served me well in R and they are traits my FWH is trying to build. He says he is beginning to experience the "joy" in life that I have always had (so very sad that he has not had that in his 55 years!). I apologize that I don't remember who, but someone posted here that a contributing factor to their successful R was the BS having compassion for the brokenness of the WS. I think that is important as well. So...can you make a clean start? My answer would be most definitely YES. Every day is a clean start, or the opportunity for one if you are only willing to take it.

That being said, I want to share our most recent setback. I do still on occasion check FWH's cell phone log. Last week I saw that he had dialed MOW's number (17 seconds). When I asked him about it I could tell that he was completely dumbfounded. [He is really good at omitting, but does not lie well.] He said that he had gotten a TM from her that she would be available at a certain time if he wanted to talk to her, and was proud of himself for not reacting to the TM, just deleted it. So we reconstructed: He tried to call his voicemail and did not get the prompt to enter the security code, so hung up and dialed again. Shortly thereafter he received the TM from her. So we think that he dialed her number without thinking and her TM resulted from the missed call on her phone. Told him that the fact that he could still subconsciously dial her number nearly a year out scares the sh** out of me. He says it does him too.

We talked, too, about being robbed of a past versus being robbed of a future. Their A robbed me of a past, but in the end, she was robbed of the future she thought she would have with him. Which do you think is worse?

Just musings on my part. Hope everyone has a "krackalackin" week! (YES, we watched Madagascar II!)


When it feels like your life is falling apart, perhaps it is falling in place.

BS(me)-56
WS-59: LTA (22+ years)
MOW-54: H's old girlfriend
D-day 08/11/08 (3 days before 25th anniversary)
Working hard on R


Posts: 104 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: Nebraska
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:59 PM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle, I love those "little books". I found the little book of calm helped loads in those early days. Think I might go and dig it out again. And look out for the letting go one - I could certainly do with that!!!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:21 PM, July 13th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks kalamity, iwantamiracle, forgivenotforget for looking a my art... lol… No way I’m a pro in any way.. Just have the means to buy an expensive camera... and needed a little ego boost right now.

BorrowTrouble, seems I did read that too somewhere. It would not be easy for me to move on and take every bit of my courage to do so. I’m now just a mouse, after being a lion.

lostsuol.. those baby pictures did take me to a place I was most happy in my life... When my children were born. Thank you sharing and bless that child.

UK...

are you both in MC?
Yes, we have one, the guy, but it has been since April when we both have gone together. The IC she uses is same as our MC. I started with him, but decided to move in April to more faith based. The guy was great at first for me. He actually saved our M because I was going to do all the wrong things. But my new IC, this sweet woman is so good for me... She got me to focus on myself and helped me start the process of forgiving my wife and OMs (both of them). She also has helped me.. “get in touch with my own feelings”. I want my wife to see her too and did ask, but says she cannot bear to revisit her story of betrayal. She also does not want to take it to our church. But our Catholic faith is so much about community, forgiveness and helping one another. I think too it is because she cannot confront the fact she has killed her own baby back when she was a child herself… I recently went to confession after 9 years ago… I felt so good afterwards… Right when I jumped in the car, the radio was on… This part of the Billy Idols lyrics from White wedding came on… “It's a nice day to start again (come on)”… Tell me was that just a coincidence! No frick’n way. Anyway, we are going to Retrouvaille in a couple weeks. I need those “tools needed to rediscover a loving marriage relationship” and my wife needs more then “rediscover”, she just needs to discover! I have learned so much on this site. One important thing I am doing is learning to communicate better with my wife so as not to set her up to be so defensive. Set my new boundaries. My IC recommended Retrouvaille and I will share every moment here. I have cried for my wife too. I have seen her in real pain for what she has done. She made herself physically sick over this. We have spent over $5000 trying to figure out it was stomach ulcers… I say it's due to stress.

Like so many here, my journey has not been easy in this 10 months. I am still so very hurt. I can cry today after years and years of never shedding a tear. I still spend too much time hurting and it does affect my work and job. I just don’t care because I need to get my mental health right. I could so simplify my life right now in a minute without looking back.

I have been angry twice in 6 months, February 14th and May 31st. Memorial Day, I got so drunk, I threw wine on her, then pushed her against her car causing a bruise about the size of a golf ball on her arm. That was very humbling to me and the day I discovered that I too was human… Not so perfect, as I thought I was. That event took me outside every boundary I had ever had for myself. And if I do anything like it again, I will leave my wife and want to be put in jail.

So I visit here to share what I have been through, for my own mental health, with all the fine folks like you. I thank you all dearly for all sharing all your pain and successes… how you did it or how you didn’t. I’m gonna beat this brain injury. I can say that today I feel a different love for my W. It is oddly with greater respect… and renewed passion.

My wife is doing many of the right things… She and I spend so much more quality time with each other now. She accepts my frequent hugs but it may still be a bit too much for her. She just cannot talk about A details anymore, I’ve wore out my welcome in that area... she get so defensive... I think I don’t need any more answers. I get passionate kisses, I get good night kisses, cuddles, I cuddle without leading to sex (that was/is hard for me) We make love to my satisfaction.. And it’s not just “sex” like it was for so long. She “says” she does not desire me in “that way”, but why has she initiated a couple of times recently? (I know I shouldn’t be counting, but this will be my deal breaker, I need and want to be loved this way, something I so missed for so long. I think it is health to have this too). She still has frequent contact with a couple friends working for the OM that may, or may not, have been enablers. I feel like this is her emotional link back to her lover of 8 years to update her on how he is doing.

Oh well.. I said enough… thanks for listening to my story.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:42 PM, July 13th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:38 AM, July 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We make love to my satisfaction..
So I wasn't totally truthful... but this is a hard topic for me because I don't know if I'm healthly or not?

She doesn't desire me. Tells me that she has no desire to have sex. We made love on Friday. She didn’t want to then but says she liked it and that was great. I asked to make love last night. She said no... too tired or just want to chill. I always am the one asking and feel horrible with I get rejected. I just feel like I need to be in a M with an healthy sex life....

I feel like I'm in a numbers game but it's not about that... It's about me wanting and needing to have some sexual intiamcy. Is two to three times a week is about right? That's what I feel. She told me last night she always feels all this pressure. I just don't get it. I know guys are wired differnent but to take 2 or 3 hours of each week and have a desired healthy sex. How hard is that for a woman? I'm with a messed up woman or is the the norm for a 45 year old lady. She says many of her freinds are the same way. I keep throwing the she had sex with me one day a week and him 2-3. She says it wasn't like that... but some weeks... I know it was.

I have learned how to give great body massage.. tried waiting a few days... candlelite.. trips have worked but that is very special and not a normal week... I have tried making dinner ready for her, doing all the laundry so she does not have anything to do... more too

Is this is my problem? Do I have sex on the brain or am I normal? Am I taking the fact she keeps telling me I'm not sexually desired too important given all the other intamacy stuff?

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:48 AM, July 14th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:50 AM, July 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kalamity, he should have told you about the TM. Doesn’t matter he deleted or dialled her # in “error”, he should have told you straight away. Do you think he would have said anything if you had not checked and then confronted? Is he still on planet Headinthesand? Sheesh.

tryn, the physical ailments while trying to keep such a black secret are not unusual. My WH had back pains, headaches, bad skin, chronic dandruff, stomach pains, joint stiffness. It was mostly due to stress. But I thought stress at work and due to a court case we had on the go at the time. When it was finally out in the open, he said “this has been killing me”. Oh, really!!! Not killing, but I accept it made him ill. But it was of his own making and the continuance was of his own choice, so I’m afraid I had no sympathy whatsoever.

The MC sounds good and seems to be working for you. If your faith helps, grab that too. It is up to your FWW to come to terms and deal with her past. You can help her, but not at the expense of healing yourself. Hopefully, she will find a route through her own IC. As for the sex, you are having intimacy, which is good. Sex is often a peculiar barrier. It has the ability to bring you close together, yet it was the one thing that the A was based on. So I can get her guilt over that one – she wants more than that with you. If she initiates, great. If she goes along with your initiation, great too. The most important thing is that she feels close to you before, during and after. JMHO.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, July 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl and others.. am I wrong to set a boundary that I will only be with a woman that has a physical attraction to me?

So many other things go into a M but I hurt like hell when I'm told she just doesn't have that.

So many other women have jobs, nice, same faith, attractive... I'm so willing to take on a women with children too... I was a great parent. I know somebody is out there that would love me like I need.

So I take another year of hurting inside, thinking about all this, working on my own mind... to end up with someone that just has no physical attraction to me and tells me no week after week.. or yes just because she wants to "work" on it..

I'm afraid I am hanging on because of my high desire to not share my grandkids time between me and my wife later in years. Is that really a reason to stay and hear no no no... sorry I'm too tired and I just don't like to make love to you...

or am I being a baby about things... selfish about my own sexuality? Do all M end up with one partner just no phyical attraction? why do I now feel like the greedy one? THe selfish one? I was never like this before the A..

btw... I told my wife last night it was her that was broken, not me... I always maintained a healthy relationship... She said she always have been a good person... I said no she had not... A's are not being a good person... at least in M. I got called "mental" at some point. She says it's her fault for making the wrong choice but I was the one that didn't have that "deep" feeling she so greatly needed... Healthy would be for her to make it damn clear that was missing... I NEVER GOT A CLEAR MESSAGE... That is such BS IMO... Why can't she just face the facts, be humble, seek forgiveness and move on into a healthy life... why is that so hard to admit???

I get no commitment for the future... only I will "try" I want to feel this way for you, I just don't... Boy does that sting...

So I told her last night for the first time I don't want to be in a M where you have to force yourself to be physically attracted to me...

The end might near...

Sorry for spilling my pain and guts to you guys...Oh well... another day off to battle my mind... Thanks for all input as I struggle with taking myself to a happier place... I'm gonna make my self happy.. one way or another... she asked me to just hang in...

BTW... what is gaslighting?

This was my poem I wrote on New Years Day 2009...

Sleepwalking through my life...
Never a fear of loss...
Something I lost...
Something you found...
The sun still rises...
The sun still sets...
It is beyond my control...
life goes on...
Set your mind at peace...
with truth and honesty, as I...
only the heart knows if it can be...
control what you can...
nothing to fear...
find what you need...
find what you want...
you have time as I...
better days ahead for you...
and I.


I just don't know if it is time or not... 10 months out now and she says I not getting better... she says I am in so much torment.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:58 AM, July 14th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, July 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone...I wanted to thank you all for the kind words and support that you offered, it really helps to know that I'm not alone and not crazy...it's comforting.
My situation is pretty much the same, I'm trying the 180 and have been reasonable sucessful, I did break down Sunday night and tried to talk to WH. He was cool and distant, very business like. He says he's hurting much the same as I am but you'd never know by looking at him. He says that he is not with the OW and that I would be happy to know that they aren't even speaking...oddly enough it doesn't make me happy...it was almost easier to justify him wanting to be with someone else other than me but it's hard to come to terms with the fact that he'd rather be alone or on his own than with me????
Word is starting to get out among our friends and he told one of my girlfriends that he just kept disappointing me and that this was for the best! He said much the same to me that he didn't know why he wanted to spend so much time with his friends and not me, why he couldn't or wouldn't stop all contact with the OW, he also wondered if she came knocking at the door a year from now if he'd go with her? All of these things made him question his feelings for me and I guess lead him to the conclusion that his heart just wasn't in it.

The hardest part for me is trying to stop figuring out why and what I could have done and what's wrong with me? On a good day I know it had nothing to do with me and that I'm a good person but this has shaken my self confidence to the core. On a good day I'm a 37 year old, attractive, intelligent, warm and caring woman with a great sense of humour and at other times I'm the woman who just wasn't enough for her husband so he strayed, found "passion" elsewhere and has decided that after 18 years that he'd be better off without me and that "I deserve better" I told him that I did deserve better but that I deserved it from him, the guy that I loved and built a life with and married. When we were talking on Sunday night it was like I didn't even know him. The man that used to be so affectionate and loving and caring was this distant and cool, matter of fact jerk!

iwantamiracle - my heart just goes out to you for your situation and your story what a strong person you are.

trynhard - your BW is a fool, I only wish that I was married to a man with your values and insight and that was so in touch with his own feelings as you seem to be. You seem to an admirable man, a true gem!

UKgirl - this newbie thanks you for your insight and your kind words and thoughts they were much appreciated and I think you hit the nail on the head, my WH is dilusional.

Thanks to all for the truly unfortunate but warm welcome.


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, July 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

kalamity...

So much of our ability to R depends on our own character. I have always been a forgiver (To me, forgiving does not mean condoning or forgetting - just accepting that it cannot be changed.).

this is acceptance not forgiveness, but it is the firt step in forgiveness....

Last week I saw that he had dialed MOW's number (17 seconds). When I asked him about it I could tell that he was completely dumbfounded. [He is really good at omitting, but does not lie well.] He said that he had gotten a TM from her that she would be available at a certain time if he wanted to talk to her, and was proud of himself for not reacting to the TM, just deleted it. So we reconstructed: He tried to call his voicemail and did not get the prompt to enter the security code, so hung up and dialed again. Shortly thereafter he received the TM from her. So we think that he dialed her number without thinking and her TM resulted from the missed call on her phone. Told him that the fact that he could still subconsciously dial her number nearly a year out scares the sh** out of me. He says it does him too.

r u sure of the order of events?, and ommissions are lies....just in another form


tryn...

Is this is my problem? Do I have sex on the brain or am I normal?

no this is not your problem, but her problem has become yours so to speak..
you are normal, and yes right now you have sex on the brain and for 2 reasons this is also normal..
1. its an issue between you and a happy marriage with your wife
2. your wired to enjoy sex, so its ok to have sex on the brain as long as it doesn't interefere with your day to day life.

Am I taking the fact she keeps telling me I'm not sexually desired too important given all the other intamacy stuff?

this is a huge issue for you and hurtful....in a healthy sexual realsionship both parties should be sexually attracted to the other, without hesitation.....if she has lost any desire for you she needs to find out why?...is it you or would it be with any man....?

if its any man...then she just has sex issues period taht she would have to seek counselling for....

if its you then i am so sorry because that is not healthy for either of you, without it there really is no chance for true happiness....

it would be different if she were medically incapacitated and could not have sex, but mental issues without seeking help are unacceptable....

reallysad...

He says he's hurting much the same as I am but you'd never know by looking at him.

no ws will ever hurt the same or even close....the pain and loss is insurmountable when someone is betrayed.....and for us here in the lta forum, the betrayal doesn't get any worse with one exception, (when the ws turns out to be a molester or rapist )

he is so not in the same ballpark, city, state or planet when it comes to the hurt that we feel and to compare his pain to yours is just wrong and callous...

He says that he is not with the OW and that I would be happy to know that they aren't even speaking...oddly enough it doesn't make me happy...it was almost easier to justify him wanting to be with someone else other than me but it's hard to come to terms with the fact that he'd rather be alone or on his own than with me????

he sounds like a spoiled boy, he's not with her, so you should be "happy" ...happy would be if she never existed in the first place...and don't make the mistake of assuming he is alone by choice, when he is throwing her existance in your face its probably her choice, or a fight, or he is lying, or he found yet another.....

the hardest part of all of this for us lta'ers is that these op's existed for as long as they did, they didn't love us enough....well perspective is everything...

i say they didn't love themselves enough to give themselves the true gift of unconditional love.....i know my wh had it.....

our ws's in particular are truly damaged people that have really deep issues that need to be addressed and dealt with and then they need to be taught new ways of coping with whatever they feel they can't cope with on their own...

and the really sad part is that we bs's, alot of us anyways would still be here if they chose to correctly handle their issues when found out....most of us here have ws's who chose to continue to lie, deny, omit, gaslight, blameshift and so on and so on and so on.....

its so sad to me that these ws's didn't see what they had til it was too late....some never see it at all...some are just dillusional in what they see....and some see it and fix everything within their power to do so....unfortunately this breed of ws is rare...

last night i read a thread on wayward that had to do with the broken ws.....was a good read....

as always hugs to all

(((((tribe)))))

ukgirl when do u pack?


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, July 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn,
am I wrong to set a boundary that I will only be with a woman that has a physical attraction to me?
Absolutely not. I wouldn’t call it a boundary, more a requirement. I considered my H physically attractive from the moment I clapped eyes on him. Our relationship was based on good fun, mutual attraction and sex. I did not expect it to last. Throughout the affair, we continued with a reasonable sex life. I have never been overweight, got no stretch marks, kept physic ally fit and toned, cooked lovely food, kept a good, well decorated and maintained home. And yet it wasn’t enough. MOW had weight issues, but I wont go into that.

Okay. That said, physical attraction is one aspect. He could be Kevin Costner or Brad Pitt or George Clooney, but if he didn’t have all the other qualities I found attractive it would add up to one fat zero. I wouldn’t be interested in sex for more than a very short while. Emotional connection is something else. Emotional connection is more important than physical attraction or the “phwoar, get ‘em off” factor. For most women, sex and love in a long term relationship go hand in hand, one of the huge differences in A’s. During WH’s affair, when I was in the dark, I could “get off” during sex. It became perfunctory, but I still got what I wanted. Since dday, their sex life often gets in the way, but only for me. Try too hard and I want to stop and just cuddle, feel him close. This probably is a woman’s perspective as it has never, ever bothered him. He says it was just sex in the end and nothing else. I really do wonder if your wife has the affair sex in the way of a satisfying sexual relationship with you. Could this be the case? If so, then I would suggest this is brought up in MC and dealt with when she sees her IC.

She said she always have been a good person... I said no she had not... A's are not being a good person...
My H considers himself a good person who made a mistake (that word again). I read a long time ago in an article about different types of affairs where this was said:
Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continuing living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet.
I consider my H’s affair was a “Romantic Affair”, which this refers to. Wonderful people don’t screw around with married people. So, he was broken. Nothing was missing for us, he was looking for that ingredient and yet he didn’t know what it was he was searching for. Life was passing him by and he wanted more. More of what? He didn’t know. One thing he found out, whatever it was he wasn’t finding it in MOW/ex-gf either. I concluded that whatever it was that was “missing” was actually within himself and not to be found elsewhere after all. He had a void and was trying to fill it with something external. For him to say he was/is a bad person means that he had the affair without caring that what he was doing was wrong – and he knew it was, hence the guilt. I beg to differ as I believe he has rewritten history and has altered memory as to how he was truly feeling at that time. But I don’t think he could live with himself if he believed he acted out this affair because he was essentially a bad or horrible person.

You could read the article about understanding the process of self delusion. It might help. It was posted here some time ago. If you google it, you might find it. If not, pm me and I’ll copy and paste it to you.

Gaslighting is taken from a film title, Gas Light. The husband makes the wife doubt what she sees and hears, implying she is slightly mad. The lights are turned down, the husband says not. She gradually loses trust in her judgment, memory and perception. It is someone telling you and making you believe one thing when you know it is not true.

Lovely poem. Keep writing and taking your photos. It all helps.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, July 14th (Tuesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Really sad. Just keep reading the healing library. We all know how it is when you look to yourself and wonder what you did wrong, what you could have done differently, why your WS chose to do what he did. Whatever was wrong in your m, the fact is he chose to have an affair, he made decisions that did not involve you, you had no part in that process, therefore you cannot be in any way to blame for those decisions. He has to take 100% of the responsibility for the choice he made.

Don’t beat yourself up over it.

I think I might start sorting out stuff to pack soon. I have a couple of new bikinis for my new perkies () but need to buy a few bits and pieces. We might pop down and see the parents and IL’s beforehand. Not sure yet.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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