My H, for instance, said he believed that he loved the OW for a period of about six months early in the affair. But then he woke up and understood that he didn't. He kept on with it for a bunch of reasons that included power and control (over both of us and himself), keeping up with his cheating group of businesss associates, and a lot of other reasons that are just further indications of what a sick fuck he was at that point in time.
Thats one of the things I need from my H - an explanation of sorts. The "because I could" "it felts good" "its not what you think but I cant explain it" or even the "I fell in love but we were just using each other", "If it really meant something, we would have stayed together" etc etc just doesnt cut it for me, KWIM?
I need him to dig deeper. As for LTA#1 - he has yet to come out with a reason for her, for betraying his mentor/BF, for marrying me etc - he doesnt know and doesnt want to know because all he needs to know now is that thats over and will never happen again.
Not good enough, I am afraid.
Question for you - I understand your reluctance to be his W and go back to that role you occupied.
Is it possible that you change the role description? For eg. you dont have to do his shopping etc if you dont want to - you redefine what that role means.
As for your H - have you asked him why this is so impt to him? What does he think will change in your relationship?
Tryn, I havent read that book. I would be curious on how restitution would be defined in my M - one which was based on lies and deception from DAY1?
Glad to see you feeling a little better.
Did you try EMDR in your IC sessions?
They have helped me immensely. The best I can describe it is that they have taken the powwow of certain events, such that whilst I can still feel a little sad when I remember, they are not gutwrenching, soul destroying memories like they used to be.
What was the outcome of your H's IC?
All the best on your new journey! We are rooting for you.
One of my more ugly traits is my need for self flaggelation - my IC has pointed it out many times and I had no idea that is what I was doing.
I was wondering if you do it too.
For eg. Why did you show MIL OW's picture?
You know, from previous experience, that you will get little empathy or sympathy from her, after all H is her golden boy.Coming on the tails of a lovely time away with H - why would you bring this up? Was it to remind yourself of what really happened? Was it to twist the knife in your heart more deeply? Or are you afraid that you did have a good time with H, that you actually didnt remember the LTA that often and that actually that knife is not as deep as it was-?
Just a thought....
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
I got kicked out of the Wayward forum board a while back and can no longer post there. Some sick man asked a question that he wishes he could understand how his betrayed spouse felt.... I answered this…. “I see you have a child... now close your eyes…. concentrate and imagine your child getting killed by a murderer. That child is now dead and you will never see that child again except only in your mind… How do you now feel now?” It a f’ing trauma!
Will this ever go away? this sadness?
I think your problem is accepting the fact that your husband was sick, was not a nice man, was not a loyal man, and was not a good person… AND… who he is today? Is he a good man today, is he faithful today, is he the man you want to be with today?
It sounds like you have been trying to do all the right things yet not really moved on in life… This trauma is part of your life now. You need to start living life now with it, with him. You are still a very you woman and have many good years left in your life. What do you want in life? You will find a new man if you want… and all these thoughts will fade away… do it…I swear they will fade.. Every single person I know that has been through this tells me so… every one of them (they have other issues yes)
or live with this trauma and your husband. You know him better now anyway.. he’s got something sick inside him… so take care of him with and let God guide your life.
I think for you to be happy, a hard choice is going to have to be made, firm in your mind… you have yet to make (nor I). I’ll be honest with you and it has been 11 months since my dday. OM still pops in my when I have sex with my wife…. But it still feels damn good but still love having sex with my wife. I look her in the eyes every time now… and tell her I love her and I mean it… It is now up to her to look me in the eyes.. and be that good person I want in life… she’s been doing OK so far.
I so pray for peace in your mind...
[This message edited by trynhard at 7:05 AM, August 2nd (Sunday)]
the penance must be decided by the individual, each bs has their own unique set of needs that must be met in order to continue to have successful reconcilliation....
there are of course the basic requirements;
100% transparancy and
there are of course the basic requirements;
100% transparancy and
tribe... It is so weird.. I will be driving down the road and thinking about my wife, the affair, dream what I want to say or do... birds are diving in front of my car and I flinch. They are so close to death! Now I know this is going to sound crazy and maybe it is.. but if a bird dives in front of my car, and I do what I was thinking, stuff doesn’t go so well… LOL.. So today, I don’t bring that subject up when I dwell in the car and those damn birds dive in front to almost death! Then I got this image the other day… see it. Go to the bird in the blue sky and just look at it for a few minutes... you have to pause it...
Now even goto my journal post 6/05/2009... I'm going crazy I know it..
[This message edited by trynhard at 12:28 PM, May 4th (Wednesday)]
If that is love, then I hope I never love again. If that is the way people get married, by taking their vows to a whore, then I never want to marry again either.
A MW having an affir with her boss for 8 years isnt going to have her affair love blessed by the gods above because what she does to her BH is so cruel.
They're fucking liars, professional, psycopathic chronic liars. They lie to everyone, including themselves and thier affair partner over a long LONG period of time. Usually we have to be the ones to finally confront them.
Love is not a dirty little secret. Love is not lying to people for several years. I mean after six year LTA survivor myself... wow... some people flip out just for a ONS. I don't know what to do. I am way beyond flipping out.
I am floored the affair went on for as long as it has and that it ended this way. He married OW.
My love was genuine, very very real. Thats what got me in trouble.
Im very tired of flying around in this pattern. Im tired of him telling OW everything about me and their collusion to ruin my reputation so they could come out looking good to make me look bad. They involved the kids as cover for the affair. The lies went too far. It was way personal. I feel so betrayed and so humiliated. Six years was a long time.
LTA's suck the big D.
I think what happens is lust starts the A. Once in it... it just continues and you know it's wrong but feels so good... you get delusional about your relationships... your brain somehow separates the two... next thing you know, you get caught and reality kicks your ass.. the brain does some amazing stuff... Somepeople have pushed there spouses away by then and choose another to give single love... some don't.
I don't beleive in polygamy nor being in two relationships at once... I now have the ablity to control that... but I can tell you this, if a very nice looking OP started slowly everyday talking about how wonderful you are, how great you look, slowly hints cute, he's nice, everyday, over and over, starts to take you to lunch, then drinks.. Anyone can fall for this if not total awareness. I admit I could have fallen too. Nobody is perfect.
But you cannot ignore the fact some people can love two people at once... it's proven.
[This message edited by trynhard at 11:15 AM, August 2nd (Sunday)]
Some people can love two people... in maybe not exactly the way you think loving someone is... Polygamy is or was real and blessed by someone's god. One man can love two wives... and I also believe opposite.
No offence, Tryn, but what a load of crock.
How dare you equate the feelings between spouses in a M to the immoral, illegal feelings between affair partners?
* you think YOU have control over your wife f*cking some- else again? No sir - ONLY SHE has. You never have nor will ever have control over anyone but yourself
*Polygamy is practiced in some religions and ALL parties are aware- it is an open contract between the relevant parties and not conducted under a cloak of deceit - where you aware that you were in a polygamous M?
but I can tell you this, if a very nice looking OP started slowly everyday talking about how wonderful you are, how great you look, slowly hints cute, he's nice, everyday, over and over, starts to take you to lunch, then drinks.. Anyone can fall for this if not total awareness. I admit I could have fallen too. Nobody is perfect.
That sounds just like the same hymm book ALL WSs sing from when they get caught out.
Would you have really fallen, Tryn, or are you trying to justify your W's behaviour?
What is your relationship with your XH now? How are the chn coping?
Are you in IC? I just can not imagine how devastating this must be for you.
However, with the right support, you can pick your self up, dust off all that dirt, hold your head up high and live your life. No matter what they do, XH and OW will always have a M that began in the cesspit. They can flop around trying to get the crap to stick elsewhere, but no matter what, they will always carry the stench.
You know who you are - dont let them take that away from you.
Remember (and I know this is a much trotted out line but it is SO true) - the best revenge is to live well, with a smile and a bounce, whilst those 2 cheaters are stuck together forever!
(maybe not - I remember another line - the one who cheats with you will cheat on you too ).
[This message edited by Lost Heart2 at 11:42 AM, August 2nd (Sunday)]
and even if you did, I dont even want to know. KWIM? I wouldnt judge you.
When I was in R I used to wish I had a BH I could relate to. BH are hot! lol!
My xWH is going 100 miles in the wrong direction and he knows that. Has no clue what to do about it. Classic conflict avoider.
I dont have the time or the money for IC. My girlfriends are available to me 24/7 hehe
I am remodeling the house, and have a girl crush on a guy from my former state. I have no feelings of love or desire for xWH. Those feelings are gone. I will nevvvvver take his ass back again. I will not go through this and put our kids through this ever again. We cannot go through life always looking over our shoulder, when dad sees his AP again and ruins our lives with their plotting and scheming.
xWH and me and the kids are at a crossroads. Again. He's got OW at our former marital home and suprise visited me here three times in the last week. He looks like shit. He really fucked up this time. He got married and the only way to annul it is if it were done by force, fraud, or insanity.
Here, it may be all three........ lol!
[This message edited by Jasmine at 1:03 PM, August 2nd (Sunday)]
Jasmine... I'm happy you have decided on a new man. I think that takes great courage. I've often thought that the only real way to overcome an A is D... I'm 100% sure that if I did D, then there would be a time where I would be at 100% peace again. I'm not sure about an R. You may never be at peace in an R. One think is for sure, I think and expect, it to take a long time.
Would you have really fallen, Tryn, or are you trying to justify your W's behaviour?I won't ever know but I think so before Dday. I think so because I did have fantasy. But I know that everytime it was headed into that direction I stopped it... but I was never pushed strong day after day... getting caught on a weak day when our M was not on a high.. I was never in an office... And I'm not the whore gett'n type guy to pick up someone a srip joint, street or bar guy.
you know.. it's been pretty hard for me to be honest with myself.
[This message edited by trynhard at 1:52 PM, August 2nd (Sunday)]
i wish i could answer this one, still in it....but i believe we can, we may not have the outcome we orginally wanted, but i strongly believe we can come out of this stronger, and that we will do more then survive, we will thrive.....
He refuses to talk about the affair anymore... he says he said it all before and he can't keep going back there.Meanwhile, his silence tonight made me think that ..it's true he did feel very close to the OW..otherwise he would have protested and said something.
you would need to tell him that this whole thing is about what you need not what he needs...and i disagree on why he is not answering you, it could be that like most of the ws's they just want it to be over and done, they don't want to talk about it period...shutting down is a defense mechanism....but when they defend we feel the need to attack to answer the defense.....
you say he is the husband now you always wanted, start there....and i think yoo should both go back to mc....you may need a 3rd party to mediate and bring objectivity....
if you have not already done so go to the healing library....
anyways welcome, and so sorry that you are here....
lh2: the need to know....that one is most certainly going to be my sanity.....as much as i know my wh is a liar....i know i will seek divorce as soon as feasible where my kids are concerned....but i still have this need to know everything that he did with all of them....and when he says things like i don't remember, or youhave it all, i want to scream...tonite he did it again...i don't even know how we got this subject again...and again he said its true he doesn't remember...well i lost it a bit, punched his chest with both fists, because of his proximity and my inability to keep calm...that NEED to KNOW is making me nuts.....i want acceptance, true acceptance of who he is, but to accept is know that i will never know....and i already know i will never know...so why can't i just let it go....
Will this ever go away? this sadness?
No. You will always be sad over this….This will never go away.
is this your fear?
your post to njgal sounded a lot like you....do you think you were projecting...
and tryn..no offense but you are a man...sex to you and sex to us women is like night and day.....most women need more in the everything in my life needs to be o.k. dept for sex to be a happenin...most men can skip that and go straight to gettin it on....
and i don't think you are going crazy, i think you have alot of fear, hurt and anger while still loving your wife...kind of your own living hell.....the fear the hurt and the anger all against your love....which emotion will win out....this is not easy for any of us...living with these strong emotions.....and then theres free will...the ws's exercised their free will and still do, and their free will is not doing what "you" want....and you want them to want to do what you want of their free will....its a proof of sorts.....
enough of that soapbox...
No offense, but in general I resent hearing how MM/MW loved their OP.
of course you resent this, all of us who have ws's who loved their op's resent this.....and for you it has to be twice as difficult since he chose his love for her over you...and that really sucks....and i hope they experience the karma bus right along with ya....
but in the meantime....live your life, hopefully you will find someone better....and if you don't, thats o.k. too.....fill your life up with what you love....find hobbies, or go back to school, take up dancing....find something for you, something that will make you happy....being happy without him is truly the best revenge......and in the meantime, enjoy your crush...one never knows...
and i agree with you jasmine....about steppin out....none of us would have gone there before....it just wasn't on the radar....and more importantly we loved our spouses enough....and tryn i don't think you would have before either, now i think you will most certainly be tempted....but not before....the fact that you are willing to work out and on your marriage is a man very much in love, and i believe that when you are that much in love you don't cheat.....another reason our spouses steppin out on the rest of us hurts so much...they never loved us enough.....and with that said...i also believe like tryn....that you can love 2 people at the same time...but truthfully neither one is really "it", because if they were really "it" the other would disappear....so yes you can love 2 at the same time....but neither one gets 100% and thats the perfect set-up for failure.....
there are all kinds of love in this world....love someone because your comfortable, love someone because they rock your world, love someone because they make you laugh, love someone because they make you feel like you are all there is...i could go on and on....but when you love everything unconditionally as most of did for our ws's, you do not even consider loving anyone else...which makes it hard to fathom.....
whew....o.k. i think im done now...you guys got more then my 2 cents worth on this one....
i hope i make sense, sometimes i like to just type and it comes out as rambling...if this is the case i am sorry....
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 7:10 PM, August 2nd (Sunday)]
For my husband ...the realization of what he had been doing truly seemed like a shocking revelation...it was as if someone poured ice water over his head...
and then suddenly he realized that what he was doing was very wrong and very hurtful...
I don't understand that either..
my wh supposedly had an epiphany shortly after d-day....claims to have seen the lite...then proceed to contiuously lie to me, still is....and he suddenly realizes that he doesn't love ow#1 after all....after loving her longer then he even knows me....
is there any way you wh would go to mc with you....let him know that its for his benefit as much as yours....
he may well be the husband you always deserved, but feeling the way you do you cannot be the wife he may deserve......
i think you both would deserve happiness...while you are living with this cloud thats is really not possible.......you then are both living in a fantasy and not dealing with all of your reality....
just my 2 cents...
I had this story I used to tease xWH with. How there is only one person that I was made for. I'd say, look how perfectly we fit together (our hands were the same, our bodies fit like a glove, the way we know what the other one is thinking and how we finish sentences for one another) was because I was made for him and he belonged to me as well. I was never unfaithful to him, not once in our 20 year relationship.
Well, all that is destroyed now. He is married to OW. He had four years to try to make it right with me (R) but this is how it ends. It was the last brutal round. I renounce my title. Now OW wears the crown.
I was tired of always looking over my shoulder anyways and I could not compete with an affair. It consumed our life and it will soon take over theirs. I know xWS better than he knows himself and by destroying me, he's destroyed himself.
We did the West Country trip first, before going on holiday. And the holiday was good; we both enjoyed it. There were some triggers, but I mostly kept on top of them. He’s away for a couple of nights on business. He’s told me where he’s staying, but I never remember and I don’t really care. Since dday, I just seem to blank it off.
WS loving the OP. My FWH has said the same as BT’s FWH. He thought he was in love with her, for about 6mths, and then realised it wasn’t “love in it’s truest sense”, whatever that means. He got stuck, he couldn’t give her up but he didn’t want to carry on either. All I know is that my gut senses were absolutely spot on in those first few days after dday. I knew he could never have an A without getting emotionally involved. I said to him on dday “she let you go once, what on earth made you think she was going to let you go a second time?”, I was right. I knew in my heart he was minimising, lying and rewriting history as he was telling me those lies. I knew he wanted to be with me and not her. But I also knew that if I chucked him out, he would go straight to her and that would be it. She would be better than nothing. His “love” was based on adolescent love, had never had to opportunity to mature into something deeper and long lasting. It was nostalgic love, I think. Maybe the hardest to recognise as too intense and, ultimately, unsustainable.
Polygamy. Now that’s a very different situation. As LH says, it’s in the open and acknowledged by the society in which it takes place. It doesn’t compare, imo.
njgal , This kind of sadness should not still be with you. Are you waiting for him to do this again and this is a sort of defensive mechanism? ie “I knew I was right” syndrome? You have to be happy for you, never mind him. I do have days when I am happy and do not allow FWH’s A to intrude, sometimes I have a week when I don’t get mad. But I don’t cry anymore.
Jasmine, it sounds like your xWH is having an unreciprocated EA with you…… his new wife is becoming a BW. Karma?
do you think you were projecting...
And in my gut...there are just things that do not compute, they are not logical, the puzzle pieces don't fit.
IMO.. Of course he loved the OP during those times even if he cannot admit it to himselves. "Making love" has that name for a reason... So many definitions of love... my wife admits loving the OM... but she loved me more and picked me. Some spouses don't get picked. I'm not sure why your H won't admit. he likely defines it like some around here..not “love in it’s truest sense”, Maybe he has some fear to hurt you... can you accept he did love her in some way and put that at rest in your mind? I do think a drug could be a valid reason too... Why can't you accept that? I would because when you drink, you are not in a clean mind. I physically hurt my wife when I was very drunk... something I know I would have never done sober. I don't drink much anymore.
Maybe you are like me right now and know it is not the one issue...it is many.
- learning how to protect my happiness...
- learning how to be selfish myself and be happy giving more then getting.
- learning to accept thing I cannot control
all those and more...
It funny how delusional he still is... His XW is remarried but he still think somehow he could get her back even today, if he wanted.
And in my gut...there are just things that do not compute, they are not logical, the puzzle pieces don't fit.
If she meant NOTHING to you...why continue for so long?
Why would she keep your interest for so long?
Does this help? Please remember the mantra that it was not about you and it was not your fault. He put her and the A in a box and when it was over, he chucked the box out.
Tryn, Sounds like you are doing your own version of the Serenity Prayer. I like to take some of those lines for myself too, including enjoying the moment and living the day. Sometimes I think having a faith would help, but I am left with hope and belief in the basic love and humanity of the individual.
As for your BIL
eta - is he your BIL or xBIL?
[This message edited by UKgirl at 9:08 AM, August 3rd (Monday)]
But by then H knew I could handle her on any level. She wasn’t the problem – he was. He was more concerned about keeping her away from me than anything else and she knew that and that’s why the A went on for longer than he really wanted it to. But he couldn’t let her go either – b/c then he would have to tell me in case she decided to tell me at some point in the future. And he couldn’t face that. So he kept on seeing her and giving in to her demands. Until that night when she crept nearer and nearer to telling me by ringing the house and saying nothing until I put the phone down, and then he blurted it all out.
I told him he was trapped by his own stupidity.