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User Topic: Long Term Affair Thread XV
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{LTA}}} cuz so many of us are hurting...

LTA for those who are doing well in their journey...

My sister went home yesterday. I miss her already but we talked last night and she had a good visit... we spent lots of time with my dd and grandson (one month old today) which was the main purpose of her visit. She is feeling good as she's put on a little weight and has more energy and strength as a result.

This morning I'm packing to join FWH on a business trip (driving in 30C heat). I cancelled IC so we could leave earlier but I have another session when we get back. Back in a week and not sure about internet access while away so take care everyone and know you are in my prayers.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

safe driving lostsoul....

hoping you have fun on the trip with you fwh....

and how is the little guy doing grandma?


tryn: bit of twilight zone moment for me i know you would appreciate....yesterday i am walking as i do every morn and when i pass a tiny wetlands area i blink a million times because if my eyes are seeing correctly its a crane...never saw one outsie of a zoo, books and your pix.....i shrug it off, it was flying, i figure it has to be a gray swan...then this am on my power walk i look over in the wetland area and behold its the crane.....i raionalize to myself that my imagination is getting the best of me and i must be thinkin of tryn.....well on the way back i have to pass this area again, i look and its is still there...one crane and a couple of ducks....i pull out my camera/phone, its a new phone so i don't really kow what i am doin yet...and take some pix...and to top it off i do not have my reading glasses so i really can't see much on the phone screen especially in the sun...so i sanp away and figure when i get home i would check it out...i get home, put on my glasses fumble a little to figure out what i am doing...found the pix...but no crane just the ducks.....so either i am truly seeing things, i don't know how to truly work this damn camera phone OR and this is the big OR...i am getting one of your "signs"...freaky or what?????

btw my wh has posted again, and god bless authentic now...her response was wonderful.....

want to run something by all of you, without telling you my gut on the sich i would love everyones input:

a couple of days or week or 2 ago (no concept of time since d-day) my wh tells me that he wants to sit down with both our couselers and answer all my questions.....

i reposnded that that was not going to happen....if he needed his counceler there to tell me whatever he needed to tell me, fine, but my counseler being there is not necessary....

and it was left there, and not talked about again...this is the second or third time he has suggested this....

and last night we talked a bit about reading each others posts...i told him that i read almost every wayward post if just to try to understand what happended to my life, to understand the wayward mind...and on the rare occasion that i can respond to another wayward...i do, in the hopes that maybe what i say may give him or her a light bulb moment especially on trickle truth...here is where i start to cry, if i could save another bs the torture of trickle truth because maybe by the slim possiblity something i may have said cause a ws to think and give the total truth...and then i said yes i read what he posts too, because i need to see by your responses if you are getting it, but so far every post and every response shows me NO CHANGE.....

but i know that he reads everything i write to get into my head to possibly manipulate any sich to his advantage....it never works but he still tries....

the i realized the time and had to run for my ic...

again would love everyones take....


as always
(((((tribe))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

this is the second or third time he has suggested this....
Why? What does he expect from this or what is he expecting from you?

As to reading each others posts, I’m not so sure about that. I don’t think either of you is going to be fully open when you write here. And it is inevitable that some of the outpouring and venting is actually directed at each other rather than to the others in the forum. It’s as if you are both consciously aware of the other sitting on your shoulder. I know I would be extremely uncomfortable if FWH was reading here – it would be the same as him reading my diary (which is password protected). You are talking to him through the LTA thread and I don’t see how that helps, so maybe a meeting with counsellors would offer the neutrality and arbitration he is seeking. All you have to do is listen. In fact, I guess, that’s all you should do.

You say he is showing no change. What change are you looking for, exactly? And why, when you are only with him for financial reasons – you have rejected him emotionally and have said yourself that when the kids are old enough, you are out of there. The plan seems to be divorce on your terms and timeline. I can only imagine how he must feel with that sword hanging over him. He may as well just give up.

Of course he wants to manipulate the situation. He’s trying to get you to come around and doesn’t have any other way of trying to get through to you.

The trickle truth is so hard. I can totally understand why they do it but on the other hand knowing FWH was not giving me the truth means I don’t really believe anything he tells me now – about MOW, their relationship or about me and our relationship. ILY? What does that mean, exactly? I want you to be my wife again. How can you ask me that when you asked that woman to marry you and yet you have never ever asked me? Just how infrequent is “I didn’t see her that often” when several times a month and staying over consecutive nights, even the best part of a week a couple of times a year means a fuck of a lot to me? In the end, after two years I knew that I had all I was ever going to get and that most of it did not come from him. Way too late now.

There will be only so much either of you can tolerate. At some point, one of you will say enough.

Sorry if this seems harsh, I don’t mean to be, but it’s how I read your postings as a couple.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
ejs5
♀ Member
Member # 24607
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just ordered not just friends from B&N should come next week...trying to decide if I should have my husband read it with me or not.

In answer to other people suggestion I get IC...I really can't afford to do that we are already tapped out money wise and 60.00 every two weeks for MC is about all we can really afford without cutting into food or bills, even then it is tight...my husband took a new job last year and doesn't work much overtime after working 10 years at a job that he had 20 hours of overtime a week at. Blessings are he isn't at the same work place as OW...and isn't around the friends who knew about the affair and supported him in it, one who is in a huge divorce and keeps texting my husband have you been kicked out(can't help but think the ow might be playing a role in those texts) and the other a buddy he used as cover I'm going to his house...it is so far away and I will be drinking that I won't be coming home tonight.


DD June 2nd 2009
Me BW 38
Him WS 40
No reconciliation was all false 2.5 LTA now a couple of months affair...

Posts: 256 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Done
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ukgirl: you are absolutely correct on the feeling of like he is sitting on my shoulder, for quite a while here i started to censure what i wrote and it made me angry, i sent him here to learn as a ws what he needs to do, i was desparate to try anything in the hopes of saving my marriage....


thats how we got on the subject last night actually, i told him i was sorry that i ever sent him here....because i lost a place of total anonymity from him...that and the whole purpose of his being here was null and void...


i still censure myself, but not as much....the things that are really none of his business i either will pm someone if needed or talk it out with my counseler...i have never had qualms about speaking my own mind, if i have something to say i always say it....sometimes to my detriment....i am a somewhat outspoken person....so i do not speak to him through my posts, at least i don't think i do....and when i vent, ramble and rant definitely not....

as far as divorce in the future....yes i believe this is inevitable and it really is what i want....right now though we need to live togther peacably for my kids....and every time he opens his mouth and the same garbage comes out i admit it, it makes my blood boil...so yes i want to see change because we still are a family, and i have 2 sons who will probably emulate their dad...so the better he is the better poeple they will become....not to mention that living in the same house, it would make me feel better...

as far as sitting down with both counselers....i don't know why he wants to do this....


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Miracle,
as far as sitting down with both counselers....i don't know why he wants to do this....
Ask him. As I say, maybe it’s for arbitration and objective input.

and every time he opens his mouth and the same garbage comes out i admit it, it makes my blood boil..
Would it be better if he said nothing? I would suppose he doesn’t know what else to say.

If you are to share the same space, you have to find a way of living together reasonably peacefully and your C’s should be able to help you there.

ejs5,

In answer to other people suggestion I get IC...I really can't afford to do that we are already tapped out money wise and 60.00 every two weeks for MC is about all we can really afford
Two options? One – is there a charitable or church organisation you can turn to? Two – can you use your MC as your IC?

Lostsuol, hope your trip is underway and goes well.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
ejs5
♀ Member
Member # 24607
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have seen our MC individually and that is where she relayed information about her strategy...in order to keep him coming she hasn't had us officially discuss the hurts of the affair...1 because she knows we had a bad experience with the last counselor we saw 5 years ago.
2 We have plenty to work on communication wise. I'm doing my best to cope and the affair does come up in counseling and she always points out it will not be swept under the rug but I think her approach of getting to know us is helping him keep coming to the sessions!
If my husband can't go to the sessions I just go alone that isn't a problem.


DD June 2nd 2009
Me BW 38
Him WS 40
No reconciliation was all false 2.5 LTA now a couple of months affair...

Posts: 256 | Registered: Jun 2009 | From: Done
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 8:08 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ejs5: i think what we are all trying to say is that you need to see her or someone JUST FOR YOU....i understand that financially that may not be possible, then as ukgirl suggested, do you have a church group, a pastor, a rabbi, a minister..anyone from your place of worship...and if you don't have a place of worship.....if you have a house of worship nearby the minister, rabbi, priest or whatever may be willing to meet with you anyway....

and as for your counseler for mc, as opposed to talking strategey on your husband....maybe some sessions can be focused on you, your pain, your needs...basically YOU....what can you do for you instead of what he can do for you....

when you are proactive in your own healing your healing will actually go faster and help you find your inner you....yes our waywards can help us heal and it is wonderful if they can, but sometimes they are not capable....and if they are doing what they can to help us, us helping ourselves in addition to them can only be beneficial....not to mention that learning how to heal oneself is a lifelong endeavor that should always be within us....

ukgirl: idid ask him...the answer was somewhat jumbled...he gave me the impression that he wanted to answer all of my quesitons with someone there to help guide him, he did clearly state that he doesn't know how to answer me or talk to me... and then when i recieved his denials my counseler would be there to help control my responses....

which made and makes no sense to me...why go through all the trouble to set something like this up just to deny....he's already denied and denied....

i will not use the counselers as mediators....that is not their purpose...so if that is his angle...then no...his counseler is supposed to help him and teach him how to deal ...period...not ot mediate on his behalf or to be a surrogate parent....

as far as finding a place of peace...for the most part its been much better....we have problems when he professes his so called "love" for me, or his so called remorse....when he puts himself in the i have to tell you about my love shit that we have a problem....because when he does that i still see a liar...and so we get back on the merry-go-round.....i am learning to ignore this as much as possible...

the other times we have problems is when a mind movie pops in my head or a memory...and then i need to share it with him...and no i do not want him to say anything except to acknowledge what i've just said....instead he takes it and tells me how is a changed man...and he goes through how much he loves me...and at that point all i see is how much he loved ow#1...so much so that i was hole for most of my marriage, and that is one HUMONGOUS HURT.....and yes he is a changed man in many ways except for one biggie...he is still a liar....and that is a total dealbreaker....so the deal is done as they say....

in between we do get along o.k....he has stepped up as a dad with my kids...which is why i've allowed him to stay....my middle son needs that...big time NEED.....

my sense of humor is still intact and so is his...through the rockiest years of our marriage both of our sense's of humors actually saved this marriage...of course i didnt know at the time that i was married to an adulterer who had no intention of ever being faithful....

anyways i am rambling again.....

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 8:09 PM, August 12th (Wednesday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 10:29 PM, August 12th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey all...an update on my situation from yesterdays posts...sorry it's lengthy:

I guess WH also felt tension or uneasiness when I ran into him late on Monday night when he was out in the driveway. After posting to you guys about how he and our communication had improved in the last little while and wondering why I was doing the 180 and what I was hoping to achieve and whether or not I wanted to talk to him about his feelings our M etc he contacted me yesterday afternoon on skype...here's the jist of the conversation:
WH: Hi...do you have a problem with me?
RS: What do you mean?
WH: The reason I ask is again it seems like I am the only one here attempting any sort of normal communication. You don't even look at me let alone say hi to me when you see m. You are nice enough to respond in kind, but whether you like it or no, we wil have to see each other and communicate. I am trying to be as nice and friendly as possible to make this easier for you. If you would rather not, let me know and if that's the case, then I am done living in the basement and I would like to get things moving along. Taxes are harmonized next year so whoever is not keeping the house, if that's an option, then one of us needs to start looking soon. I'm done living in my house where two people don't look at me or talk. You only talk to me when I start things off, we discussed this already and you agreed. Your brother and sister have been nicer to me when I've seen them than your mother and one would think the things I've done for her should count for something. She saw me come home yesterday and practically ran away. If she doesn't want to be here...she can leave. I stay out late and away so no one has to see me but there are times it's going to happen. I am tired. I'm home and going to have a nap. I will be booking flight to San Francisco for all of next week now. You guys will have the house to yourselves. I haven't decided if I will spend extra time. Someone will have to water the plants down here. Just thought you should know how I felt.
RS: wow
WH: wow what?
RS: Not sure where all this came from this afternoon?
WH: Seeing you last night take out the trash and running by me. I had to jump out of my truck just to say hi or else you would have been gone. Same for yesterday afternoon when I got home and saw your Mom pruning the rose bush. When she heard the gate she moved pretty damn fast.
RS: I'm sorry that you feel the way you do. I'm sorry that you don't understand that I am sometimes uncomfortable around you and talking to you. It's like last week when you told me "it's still me", I don't feel like it's "still you" and some days it makes me sad other days it makes me angry and some days I handle it ok and other days I just don't. I think you had a long time to get used to the idea of a life without me, in some respects it sort of came out of left field for me...I didn't think thsi was how we would end up and I didn't think you'd ever not want to be my husband or ever not want to get through this. As far as my brother and sister I never would have expected any less from them, they love us both and are concerned for us so I think they have been hopeful that our situation might have changed. As for my Mom, like it would be for your Mom, it's harder, she's much closer to the situation for a lot of reasons...as far as her living with us if there is one thing that I could change it would be that, I wish it wasn't the case for a variety of reasons and I wish it had never happened and I'm sorry it did. She's hurt and sad because I'm hurt and sad.
WH: Doesn't mean she has to be ignorant to me or my Mom.
RS: I wasn't aware she was ignorant to you or your Mom
WH: running from me...not even so much as a thanks for spending two hours in an attic running cable so she could be just a little more comfortable in her new digs. And she was rude to my Mom the day she stopped by and they spoke. It was the manner in which she spoke about me that set my Mom off.
RS: My understanding was the only time that your name came up in their conversation was when your Mom asked if you'd been home or away working and my Mom said she didn't see or talk to you.
WH: She told my Mom she's not talking to me.
He rambles on a bit about how the neighbours think my Mom doesn't like them because she doesn't give them the time of day or say hi and he had to defend her to them saying that she isn't cold and rude.
I tell him I'm not certain about what he should tell the neighbours and in all honesty my Mom has been off and it's been difficult especially living with each other.
WH: I know that your situation sucks, as told to me by my Mom and thankfully you've got your siblings involved somewhat but whatever is up her butt needs removing because it's not helping. I truly want you to be happy and bouncing again and the sooner the better. How about this. You and I get together...upstairs, downstairs, somewhere else when I get back from California? We have a talk and see if we can figure things out?
RS: Talk about what, the house?
WH: What we're doing, where we're going, what has to be done etc. Yes? No?
RS: yes we can talk when you get back but from what I gather from you it's just to determine what we are doing with the house and finances etc because we will be going our separate ways right?
WH: we'll worry about that in a couple of weeks
RS: I thought you were very comfortable with your decision so I thought all that was left was who was coming, who was going, where and when etc.
WH: What do u expect? And what do u want from me? I'm living in basement where I don't want to be. Things have happened...I made mistakes. I need direction in my life. Living like this...especially when you won't talk to me or you say you need time to figure your stuff out, doesn't help. So...we talk when I'm back. I'm done talking about this for today. I need a nap.
a few minutes go by as I'm typing my reply
WH: u typed for a long time only to erase?
RS: I don't expect or want anything from you. I'm living in a situation that I don't want either. Yes you made mistakes and I never thought you were perfect or expected it and still don't, I have made my own mistakes too. Yes, you do need direction in your life and you need to figure out where your happiness is and where it will be long term. I was always willing to work on our marriage and try to get over the shit that happened and that never changed until I felt as though you checked out and told me we were done, I didn't have a choice any longer. I've loved you all along but I also have respect for myself and our marriage and had to play the hand I was dealt and that is what I've tried to do. When I said I needed time to figure my stuff out it was about me getting my emotions in check and trying to think ahead and not make rash decisions. Did you mean you took offence to me figuring out "my" stuff not "our" stuff? Not sure what you meant and how that doesn't help? Like I've said all along, you knew what was going on in your head, I didn't. You had a lot of time to consider your decision and to think about your life without me as your wife or me in it...I didn't. Maybe I'm the eternal optimist but I always thought we'd get through this, we were different and ultimately we'd be ok. So like I said, blindsided a bit when you told me that you didn't think your heart was in it and we were done. Never thought you'd say those words to me or walk away. The situation breaks my heart, it's not what I wanted or how I ever though you and I would end up. I've simply been trying to do the best that I can and deal with a situation that I didn't ask for and didn't want. You are right though, you need direction and you need to do some soul searching and figure out what's best for WH and what makes WH happy now and what makes WH happy long term. Maybe it's me, maybe it's not. Maybe our marriage is fixable, maybe it's not. I do think you owe it to yourself to think about it and like I said do some soul searching. I never intended to suggest to that you needed to do any soul searching but I owe it to myself to be honest to me and to you and i don't want to have any regrets about what I said or didn't say or mistakes I made or could have corrected and didn't etc. If you aren't napping already then you should, I have work to do. I'll talk to you later.

No response from WH. He called me that evening when i got home from work to tell me that he had made rice and made too much and would I like some? Told him I was running late for an exercise class that I had joined and I had to run and that I hadn't even thought about dinner.
Next communication was this morning, he skyped me at work to find out how my Mom made out yesterday at the fracture clinic getting the cast off her arm following her car accident last month.

Like I've said before, I never know what I'm going to get from him from one day to the next....any thoughts on the conversation from yesterday and any thoughts/advice about the face to face conversation that we may be having next week?

UKgirl - thanks for the links to SerJ's stuff...it's so insightful and bang on, I'm going to try and commit it to memory.


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:04 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i will not use the counselers as mediators....that is not their purpose...so if that is his angle...then no...his counseler is supposed to help him and teach him how to deal ...period...not ot mediate on his behalf or to be a surrogate parent....
Counsellors are just that. In MC they are mediators, they have to be mediators first or they cannot offer help. They are there to help guide and advise you through this time in your marriage whether you plan to reconcile or not. And if their role for a session is to help you listen to him and to be a mediator, that is what they will do. If the C’r feels your H is going in the wrong direction, that you are not structuring your questions in a constructive way, if things are spiralling down, they are there to keep you on track for the whatever the purpose of that session may be. They can interject with “how does that make you feel” or “before you answer micacle’s question, let’s break it down and take sections” or “pfm, you have not answered the question” It is not always about the digging down and pulling out long forgotten reasons for our behaviours. Counselling is supposed to be a positive way of dealing with unresolved issues, to be able to discuss problems honestly (ok, I know...), to deal with blocks that are preventing you from achieving a goal and to feel you are moving on without the issues continuing to hang over you.

Although H lied and minimised in C’ling, I still got shed loads more than if we had not gone. I could ask questions and know our MC would have him answer them. There were times when the focus was on him, others when the focus was on me. Mostly it was to help me heal and for him to understand how much I hurt and why. And she said that sometimes I just wanted him to be aware of how I was feeling, I did not necessarily want his opinion or his explanation about how he was “no longer that man” crap. Just a hug and maybe a “sorry”. Not offering me answers or solutions where there were none. Men are from Mars stuff, I suppose.

Or are you afraid that it might crack your defences and make you think again about your currently determined course?

ETA to edit out the Freudian slip!!!

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:20 AM, August 13th (Thursday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:26 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RS, your post had me fuming – what planet has your H gone too?

WH: Hi...do you have a problem with me?
Priceless. That one needs to go into the annals of “stupid things they say”

Your brother and sister have been nicer to me when I've seen them than your mother and one would think the things I've done for her should count for something.
Your brother and sister might be thinking/hoping he’s getting his head out of his ass. As for the comment about your mother, I hit the roof! How fucking dare he?? I’m sorry, and excuse my language, but your broken heart and destroyed life does NOT equate to the things he has “done” for her. She owes him nothing but her contempt for how he has treated you. She TRUSTED him as your H and she has been betrayed too. Fucking delusional big headed self centred prat. The world is NOT all about the favours he has done and what is owed to him. My God, who does he think he is???

Told him I was running late for an exercise class that I had joined and I had to run and that I hadn't even thought about dinner.
Good response. Your whole tone has been calm and rational, setting out exactly how you feel without being overly emotional. Well done.

His living in the basement is due to his choices and he really shouldn’t whine about it. Does he think you should be there instead, to crush you further? Idiot.

He does sound like he is justifying it all by making out that everyone else is making him the bad guy, he is not facing up to his choices and he cannot expect you to be anything other than civil at best and pure unadulterated rage at worst. You had no part in his decision making process and he has no right to expect things to be hunky dory just because he wants them to be. And why should he care about what the neighbours think? He doesn’t want to be judged or seen in a bad light? Tough shit, mate. You made your bed, now lie in it.

I'm done talking about this for today. I need a nap.
Pathetic. Just pathetic. He has destroyed any hope of sleep for you. I could slap him for you. I’d better go and make myself some tea and calm down before I burst a blood vessel.
Several gold stars for you, RS. (((((RS)))))

BTW, do you have children? The other q'n - is OW still in the picture, or was she the excuse for him to exit the m?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey iwantamiracle,

...to help control my responses
What did you do to him in the past? knock him upside the head? He sounds afraid. Why doesn't he just sit down and write out every little detail going back to day one… everything he felt… everything he did… why he thinks he did it… what he thinks today… spend a few days on writing it out? (I know he might be reading this..) What the heck does he have to lose? You? lol.. sounds like train left the station a while back! Anyway…

I’m glad you see these birds too…. Let me tell you another story and this is a true story. I knew this guy in Louisiana who was dying from brain cancer. On Monday and by no coincidence, a friend just happened to post his picture on Facebook. My wife reminded of the video he sent me I had forgotten about. George was so afraid to die… so afraid of hurting, feared the unknown. Not a religious man at all, but he prayed to God to please send him a sign of comfort… This white dove appeared a short time later on his window sill. He grabbed his video camera and took a video. After seeing that bird, he said he was ready to die… How often have you had a white dove land on your window sill?

Since all these birds are on my mind I might as well tell you what I think about the bird story you told me…. Here goes… It was likely a Great Blue Heron or The Grey Egret…. The classification of the individual heron/egret species is fraught with difficulty, like your mind. Herons are also known as "shitepokes"… For some reason, the spelling of that name reminds me of your husband? Since you took a picture and it didn’t show up when you uploaded it, that means either you are a bad aim or something is missing? Missing in your life…. Maybe some Peace? Take a chance next time… go down to the waters and get closer. .. it won’t hurt you if you test the waters. Can you get that picture? You did get the ducks though huh? Ducks and Geese are fabulous creatures… you see them fly in the V position. That helps them fly at greater range… When one falls tired and out of the V, if feels the drag and resistance, going through it alone… but quickly, it gets back in formation… they honk to encourage one another. When the leader gets tired, another one takes it’s place… If one gets sick or wounded by a gunshot while in formation, two will follow down to help and protect… Kinda like folk around here... Birds are something aren't they?

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:29 AM, August 13th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks UK...I needed to hear all of that from you big time!

WH is delusional you're right. IC warned me that he could engage in something like this just to communicate in some way. As you know from the conversation I posted and my other posts, WH doesn't handle, cope, express himself or communicate well, if at all...so this picking a fight with me, attacking only to back off some and then follow up with a gesture of rice...is really not that big of a surprise for me.

I tried really hard to remain calm and rational not let him draw me in, I kept thinking over and over about SerJ's stuff and that's where the "I'm sorry you feel that way and the I'm sorry you don't understands" from me came in. I swear I will print everything from him and the stuff that you, miracle and tryn said to me this week and I'm going to commit it to memory.

I know it's probably said a lot on this site and you've read it before (and hope you aren't rolling your eyes) but the guy who skyped that crap to me the other day isn't the guy that I married and have know for the last 18 years...I never would have married this guy. I don't know how he got this way...I know he made mistakes and bad decisions and choices and it's clearly changed him and has and is continuing to have such a negative effect on him....but to this extent? I just don't get it? Is this really fog or in your opinion is it something deeper?
Originally I thought that maybe he was struggling or having some second thoughts about his choice to S but I've re-read and I'm not so certain that's the case. I think it may be more like you said, he just doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy or in a bad light and would like nothing more than things to be hunky dory as you said.

No children and I'm not entirely certain about the OW. Last I heard was when he told me "you'll be happy to know that there is no future for me and OW and we won't be together, we aren't even speaking to one another" that was 4 weeks ago. She had apparently moved on and was dating someone new during our false R, although as you know from my previous posts she and WH were still in contact. OW lives about 4.5 hours from us, based on WH's comings and goings from our house I don't think he is seeing her, with the exception of golfing and beer and wings the guys and flitting about with his "buddy" he's home too much to be actually seeing her and she doesn't drive. As to contact via phone, email, text etc. I'm not sure.

Thanks for the gold stars...If I could I would wear them like a badge and proudly display them on my forehead for all the world to see. Hope you didn't break a blood vessel
WH does have a knack for getting under one's skin...I thought it was just mine.


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey REALLY SAD... All this is so hard... He's wishy washy it sounds like to me...
No response from WH.
Why not just come out and asked him if he wants to R or not? Try 100% or not? Then go from there... Isn't that what you want? Get it all out on the table again.

That is kinda like the discussion my wife and I had... now we have been up and down... and the story goes on...

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:27 AM, August 13th (Thursday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tryn:

thanks for making me smile...

that picture u posted is the bird i saw...i swear, thats the one...

i can't get closer because the small wetland area is completely closed off by a fence, and to go around to the other side i would have to go through brush much bigger then me.....not about to go there....way to many insects including ticks in that brush.....

i couldn't believe how it didn't show up on the picture....but the ducks did....as for ducks and geese...we have them here by the hundreds....the town even has a program just to keep the geese under control...called geese peace....

i like your story....btw...

and as for him sitting down and writing every detail...hes done that several times over, and each timeline has lies and or ommissions....he has never given it all and soemthing is stillholding him back from giving the rest....i know fear is at the base of it...but hell enough is enough...hes still keeping his secrets just means he would rather let go of me then let go of his fear....kind of sad for him....i would never want to live that way....and as for what he would have to lose...apparantly he doesn't see it as losing....i believe he is afraid of the ultimate rejection and judgement...which has been one of his biggest foo issues....and sad that he would rather let go of his family then face that fear of judgement and rejection....its pretty much how he's lived his entire life....so by lying he's been able to escape alot of extra judging and rejection from his parents....


ukgirl:

when you said mediation....all i could see was the mediators for divorce...the lawyer kind....so i misunderstood your intention of the word....

and as far as sitting down with 2 counselers....my gut tells me he wants my counseler there for 2 reasons....the first to control me....which is not possible because no one controls me, i control myself...but that goes back to his background with his family, controlling of ones partner was something they wanted....for my in-laws controlling all of their children and then their children controlling their spouses was always the agenda...and pfm tried to accommodate them always.....so the first reason is the control factor...

the second reason is i think he want to keep his counseler who started out as our counseler for the marriage to himself....i really think he needs his "C" to be there solely for him...that going back to the "mediator between us" is not acceptable for his agenda....i almost did not want to do mc....i didn't think i needed it, after all he was the one with the issues,....i rethought this out and decided that it would help us communicate and figure out what we needed to do.....he was told by the "C" that he needed to be completely honest with me....pfm decided that he was not going to do that....more and more info was found out by me and forced out of him when i found things by investigating....the entire time we were in mc i kept asking this "C" if he could be his "C" for ic too, ic was very much needed for him because of his multitude of issues.....the "C" was having a hard time committing to this because he felt that sometimes in treating an individual what may be good for the invidual would not be good for the marriage...i then explained to him privately that i understood, and if he thought that there were things that were not good for the marriage but necessary for pfm to heal then so be it, because in reality what kind of a marriage would i have anyway if pfm still had issues....pfm needed to work on becomming the man he could be not only proud of, but become a whole functioning human being...instead of a man without personal integrity...for his own healing...then when i realized that pfm and i were going nowhere fast, i was the one to stop the mc....there was no point, it was obvious that pfm had to work on himself before he could work on the marriage..,,,i had very few requirements that would be dealbreaker if not adhered to:...
honesty (total),and included with this no more denials....every denial was a lie....
no more loan sharking,
one of the fields where he worked where ow#2 was was to be given up,
no contact with any of the women,
he had to step up as a dad or he was out the door...

the only one he followed was stepping up as a dad....

he broke no contact early on, and lied about it...even lied about it in his latest post....
he never gave up loan sharking
he is still involved with the fields by ow#2
and of course the lies continue and so do the denials....

so anyway, i am rambling again...the point is that his "C" is more then capable of handling a session for both of us, my "C" doen't need to be there in my opinion, and i had also told his "C" that at any point in time if he thought my being present at any session would be useful in pfms' healing i would be happy to do so....i also told pfm that if his "C" agreed that i would go to any session that pfm needed or wanted me to attend....

so that is my very long-winded gut on why he want both "C's" there...

or at the opposite end he really does want to come clean and wants my "C" there as well as his for big time support.....but i doubt that...because he still doesn't get "IT" at all....

o.k. ive gone on and on long enough....

as always
(((((tribe)))))

[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 10:53 AM, August 13th (Thursday)]


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RS, it does sound like MLC or this recapturing his youth, turning the clock back, starting over, winding back the years. His explanations, excuses and reasons are without foundation. As you say, he has been working up to this, becoming more and more convinced it is the only option to him. You had it blasted at you all in one go. He is delusional. I'm sending you a pm.

No time for more, gotta run, catch up later.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn: I've read a lot of your posts so I know a bit of the up and down history with you and your WW which is so hard.
I agree with you, my WH does seem wishy washy...Historically as it relates to the A and the false R afterwards he has made rash, short sighted decisions and I think it's because he's been wishy washy throughout. Like I've said before I was hopeful that S would force him to either re-examine his decisions/choices or confirm them and that hasn't entirely happened. We will be sitting down and having a face to face conversation within the next few weeks (he will be travelling for work). I too need to do some soul searching in that time and be prepared for the conversation and anything and everything that may result from it...the good, the bad and the ugly!

UKg, pm'd you back....thank you!!!!!!!!!! And yes MLC at 37....WTF? Recapturing his youth? How about his childhood...he's acting an 6 year old boy, spoiled, irrational and emotionally stunted....remember he did need a nap

RS


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey rs:

when i read your convo with your wh all i could see is a cake eater.....

i really don't think he is wishy washy, i think he just wants it all....every bit of everything he can....

evrything he said to you made it ALL ABOUT HIM.....

rs its your turn to make it all about you...and i am so sorry but i don't think your wh is capable of doing that for you.....

(((((reallysad))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

miracle: thanks for your input, that's why I need everyone elses opinions and perspectives, it's so hard for me to figure out on my own without letting my heart get involved.
Is the difference between wishy washy and cake eating...waivering on his decision vs his actions/decisions still being just all about him? I'm not in the equation at all?

I understand the concept of the cake eater and wanting it all...any hope that he'll get sick of cake? Any suggestions on dealing with a classic cake eater?


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, August 13th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgot to mention, on a positive note I have still been trying to focus on me and I've made steps to get my financial ducks in a row. I completed a credit application on Monday and sent it off to see how much of a mortgage I could qualify for on my own. I got approved for more than I thought I would and I now have the option of buying WH out and keeping our house if I decide to. Not sure that would be what I want but it's certainly nice to have the option.

So my emotional ducks are all scattered about and in no way resemble a row but financially speaking the ducks are lining up quite nicely!


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
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