blurted out that he thought that everything in that article was a bunch of crap.
I'm not sure what you need to know more about the OW? I think at some point you just think... and I heard the following a hundred times from my buddy... You know they f'd, you know they had some emotional feeling for each other... what really more is needed... it is what it is. It is not going to change.
My wife and I have chosen to R. Sometimes to make yourself happy, you gotta just make a choice to love... It it amazing how it seems to be returned. Conflict can be a seed or a stone. I've always taken the postion that if I cannot recover after giving it my all... I will move on.
Let me give you an example of how I chose to love my wife Sunday... She was out of gas and asked me if I would fill her up. Did I want to? No, the damn Colts game was coming on. But I chose to lover her by just doing it quickly, without a peep...
In a healthy relationship, you:
Treat each other with respect
Feel secure and comfortable
Are not violent with each other
Can resolve conflicts satisfactorily
Enjoy the time you spend together
Support one another
Take interest in one another's lives: health, family, work, etc.
Have privacy in the relationship
Can trust each other
Are each sexual by choice
Communicate clearly and openly
Have letters, phone calls, and e-mail that are your own
Make healthy decisions about alcohol or other drugs
Encourage other friendships
Are honest about your past and present sexual activity if the relationship is intimate
Know that most people in your life are happy about the relationship
Have more good times in the relationship than bad
In an unhealthy relationship, one or both of you:
Try to control or manipulate the other
Make the other feel bad about her/himself
Ridicule or call names
Dictate how the other dresses
Do not make time for each other
Criticize the other's friends
Are afraid of the other's temper
Discourage the other from being close with anyone else
Ignore each other when one is speaking
Are overly possessive or get jealous about ordinary behavior
Criticize or support others in criticizing people with your gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, disability, or other personal attribute
Control the other's money or other resources (e.g., car)
Harm or threaten to harm children, family, pets, or objects of personal value
Push, grab, hit, punch, or throw objects
Use physical force or threats to prevent the other from leaving
[This message edited by trynhard at 9:56 AM, September 29th (Tuesday)]
Chic: Just thinking practically, can you divide up the house into two apartments and live separate but still married (for financial reasons) lives? Maybe that symbol of distance will be able to give you breathing room.
Everyone else: big hugs
[This message edited by MollyBrown at 5:44 AM, September 29th (Tuesday)]
Now if only there was one for those 2.5 years later...
How are you doing?
Mind what you love. Mind how you are loved.
I asked him to send me in an email 10 things he loves about me... we'll see how superficially he is still thinking at this point...
he said and thinks that I find articles that make me more sad
Is this serious deflecting or what?
Lost Heart2.. why don't you write one for 2.5 years later?
[This message edited by trynhard at 6:51 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]
lostheart2: i feel your sadness...sometimes we feel overwhelmed with the enormity of it all, and the fact that our ws's are not getting it in the way we need them to, are not saying and/or doing what we really need them to...as remorseful as they can be is as much is as i don't believe they really get it....and no matter what transpires since they can never know this devastation....and its so damned ironic that they have some of the power to heal us...they want us healed but are unable to do whats needed....and it would have needed to be done from the get go...because after so much time has passed, me for 1 do not think this is ever going to be possible...i will have to heal myself..myself..he is useless to me.....but i have a firm resolve..i will heal and i will do whatever it takes to do so, short of hurting my kids...anything that will hurt them more in the long run is not an option.....which means for now anyways he needs to stay here...but i know that that is not forever and i hold on to that and look forward to it....
lh2 i am "menza..menza" italian for half and half...it loses a bit in translation...basically i am better then i was, but i still have my days...last week was really bad...too much sadness, god bless xanax because i was a true mess crying at a drop of a hat..i still cry just not as much....inside i haven't really stopped crying though
but then again i have some really good positive moments, i'll share one...the other day my boys aged 15 and 14 had a sleep over with 2 other brothers that i have babysat for for years..so anyways my daughter 17 decided to join them...they were up til 3 am talking and talking and talking...the next morning they told me so much of what they talked about even the borrowed kids talked to me about their conversations...and i had one of those moments when you realize that you've accomplished so much as a mom....my kids have almost everything i wanted them to have...a few things went horribly wrong with the dad choice and choices but on my end i looked at all these kids and realized that they have an amazing life...a life that i am very much a part of....they are all great kids with really cool sense's of humor, they are warm, caring and loving towards me...and with each other they are funny, supportive, give someitmes not so gently 2x4's when needed, they help each other, they share so much together, even the borrowed ones....and it was such a cool moment...it was one of those rare moments where i am so grateful for my life....my ws's shit is still on my mind but it took a kind of back seat with the exception of how much more exceptional these kids would have been if he were the dad he was supposed to be...but all the damage control that i did through the years seem to be enough that they are really great kids....and for this i was completely grateful.....
so i have good moments now and then...and i appreciate my kids 100% of the time, even when i dislike them....
molly: its funny that you touched on the heart is safe thing... because pfm (my ws) had added this line to his signature after we had gone to a g2g in august, one of the other couples had mentioned her new tag line which made her bs very happy and it was this line about being safe,...so with that within a few days pfm added that tag line which made me just shake my head....he just doesn't get it....
and on the flip side to his copycat move i of course moved my mind over to his cheating and wondered how many copycat moves and lines does this man have...i would guess too many....
brokenheart09: of course he said its sad...sound like he is still waffling...and absolutley deflecting....so not owning his shit....the article doesn't make you sad, the fact that he doesn't see that its his actions that make you sad, his actions period...if he never had those actions that article would not matter.....you wouldn't have such sadness...im sorry your ws doesn't get it...so many really don't..they swear up and down that they do...but NO...just NO...
[This message edited by iwantamiracle at 9:39 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]
- I don't Feel secure and comfortable.
- I don't feel this... "Can trust each other"
- I'm not sure about this one. This is a problem in my relationship that we are working on... Are each sexual by choice.
Do I want a healthy relationship? Yes...
All I can control is to do the right things on both list... And if my wife does not make good healthy relationship decisions... I will communicate that to her. If she chooses to ignore or say no. I will leave her knowing I did the best I could. I don't have a time frame but I will give her a good chance. After both of us living so long in an unhealthy relationship, I owe her that since I did not leave her right after dday.
BTW.. my failures in my own unhealthy relationship was...
- Not making time
- Ignore each other when one is speaking
- Criticize or support others in criticizing people with your gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, disability, or other personal attribute
- Try to control or manipulate the other
- Communicate clearly and openly
- Are honest about your past and present sexual activity if the relationship is intimate
- Can resolve conflicts satisfactorily
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:10 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]
...he said and thinks that I find articles that make me more sad...
My WW says that I find articles or read A related books to hurt her. That my showing my pain and trying to heal myself is only done to punish her.
My wife said the same stuff. I hurt her by reading and posting here... I just tell her, You can think what you want but you are wrong.
[This message edited by trynhard at 10:28 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]
Have privacy in the relationship
privacy = secrets.
secrets = no communication.
no communication = communication with someone else.
communication with someone else = A.
Have letters, phone calls, and e-mail that are your own
Encourage other friendships
[This message edited by Razor at 11:17 AM, September 30th (Wednesday)]
As for the friendships, letters, emails and all...
And you are right... most people just don't survive LTA. They end in D. Heck, maybe me too... who knows? I cannot control the decisions of my wife... Forgiving is very hard.
I’ll update my situation… I am going to make myself happy. If my W tells me what she wants to make her happy, I will try 100% to give it to her. Right now, I know Retrouvaille has us in a good way. We can now communicate without fights, without someone leaving or shutting down. For me, I cannot remember my wife ever initiating sex. But heck, she could say tomorrow, “I don't want to initiate sex with you my H and never will.” Then I have to weigh out that one issue and decide if I can accept that for the rest of my life. I know this about me, her initiations will send me a message... I need it and want it. This one issue may end our M. I am doing my part to be intimate… I have stepped to the plate with less work, the roses, dates, erotic messages, candles, shopping… and took the "pressure off" have sex so often and all the quality time she so desired and said was the “reason.” Now it is her turn to heal and be the kind of wife I need. I hope I never have to make a choice to leave her. After this past year, I'm ready for whatever comes my way. I know I’m a catch… My buddy says I’d be the valedictorian of the dating pool… lol. Especially now I know what a healthy relationship is all about….
[This message edited by trynhard at 2:42 PM, September 30th (Wednesday)]
Tryn, I copied and pasted your article for the WS. It was excellent, although much too late for my FWH to take on board, so I just kept it for me. He kind of “got it”, but never really addressed his affair, so much less gave me an explanation. He’s always been in denial about the depth of it and took too long to kick MOW into touch after dday. I get the feeling that he misses her company (or the company of some other OW) when he’s away. I went with him on business stayaways a couple of times this last month, but it ended with a slightly sordid edge. As if I was being the OW. Which is stupid, b/c the fact is, SHE took MY place. Arriving early and it being assumed I was his wife. Sex just felt grubby and I wish we hadn’t done it. And I couldn’t sleep for the wondering about it, even though I had put up the biggest “stop” sign in my head. And gave myself a few 2x4’s.
I’m absolutely shattered. Cried my heart out and hate this burden of secrecy. Poor DS4’s going to miss his brothers so badly.
"...now your heart is safe with me again"
When it comes to trying to pinpoint my failures in our marriage, I’m not sure that they can really be taken as failures. H found the “excuses” (and he was already in his affair when he said these things) that I was emotionally drained with dealing with DS’s (particularly DS3), that I made him feel unappreciated, undervalued and in the way. None of Tryn’s points of failure apply to me. I suppose the only thing was that I didn’t go out to work. But he had his sideline business that I ran the accounts for. I was taking a small salary and if I got a “proper” job I’d be into the paying tax and insurance brackets. In that way, I guess I allowed him to “keep” me. Although if I did "go out" to work, with him being away so much I’d still have the four boys, the two dogs and the three floored Victorian house and garden to look after. I think I became part of his goods and chattel and taken for granted and that was probably my failure. Oh, and being too efficient at being housekeeper, mother, accountant, gardener, interior designer, events manager, etc.
I wonder if he is trying to blame me in some way, or punish me through projection by telling me he has given up playing golf because he can’t concentrate on anything until I can forgive or recommit or stop hurting or in some way stop getting upset about his affair. Seems screwy thinking to me. And when he says that, I just shrug and think “your loss, pal. Not mine”.
Okay. I’ve had my little angry tirade. I know it’s because I’m still in bits, but not so badly now, thank goodness. I can’t help but think that the boys would be here with me now if I had thrown their father out after dday. I’d be divorced, yes, but maybe more healed. I’d be broke – as in really skint. Happier? I don’t know. Wish I could do a sliding doors and choose which life to jump to.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:15 AM, October 1st (Thursday)]
For me, I really believe I would have healed quicker with a D... Because someone else would come my way and I would be totally focused on her...and with no memory negativity "baggage" per say. But I know far more today about being a good H then last year too. Maybe if I would have left, I would be healed with a new woman and life, but not the new me... the new person that knows what healthy means.
Today, I’m choosing a healthy spouse… and if not, I will move on to the next a bit more careful.
[This message edited by trynhard at 1:21 PM, October 1st (Thursday)]
My H was offered and accepted a place at Oxbridge, which is not something to be turned down, as well as a place at his gf’s redbrick uni, which is where she wanted him to go. After 2yrs, she dangled her new bf in front of him as the “you will change or else”. He left her. They were in a very unhealthy relationship with both of them trying to wield control over the other.
FF to the affair - if it had been out in the open, they may have well reconciled their past and had a healthy new life together. In fact if I had thrown him out, I think he would have ended up with her. It took him four months to go NC with her after dday.
He met her and was gone in a nanosecond. I cannot see anything I did to turn him away from me or for me to prevent it happening; it was going to happen one day.
I am essentially a good person. At least I was. Open, honest, generous, loving and would do anything for anyone at the drop of a hat. Now it seems that only the most selfish people seem to get what they want. And he is selfish, but a little less so now.
He said from dday he had dealt with it and he just wanted her out and me back. I want to be back to how we were, but that can’t be and the only healthy option for me is to stay a step removed and for him to accept that.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 6:40 AM, October 2nd (Friday)]
anyways i have been trying to keep up withthe reading...
welcome back uk girl, and you know what i noticed, time and time again he rejected her, and when he really could have had her time and time again he chose you....this affair was so not about you, and yes it was totally about him, his selfishness, his needs and finally his fantasy....unfinished business fantasy.....and that is not going to change...
we cannot change what happened, but only find a way to accept that it happened, you do not have to forgive him, but for you and you alone you need to find a way to accept that this is just that...it is....we all need to do that....in doing that we can let go of some of the pain that feels crippling to say the least....and thats where for me at least the hard work is....acceptance...the first step..
anyways i gotta go take mom back to the dr....hopefully i will have more time later to either expound on this or rant or whatever....