This is an explanation that 2 counsellors gave us to help explain my WW's codependancy on her son. I am the persecutor(I was told by a consellor that any man that came in between them would be demonized & put in this role) her son is the victim & she rescues him. It gets worse for us because, once her son does something, the roles switch & my wife becomes the persecutor & I became the victim. Very interesting
He will never hit bottom now with OW waiting in the wings.
And with a family that won't let him!!! How does he hit rock bottom if he feels like he is "free" and livig it up?
How do I know if I am co-dependent?
Codependents anonymous has a list of codependent characteristics. I think many of us found ourselves on the list several times. If you google codependent you will find several places that will help you diagnose yourself. www.codependence.org is a start.
You are asking the right questions.
Just realized I am married (Not for long) to a sociopath.
If any of you may be concerned please visit lovefraud.com.
I just began reading codependent no more. I saw myself right away.
I really hope and pray that I can become strong enough/soon enough not to fall for his cunning ways again.
I ahve been through 4 false Rs. Each more convincing than the last.
He always goes back to her. For a long time I thought, 'He really loves me, it's just hard for him." But, now I realize that it's all about HIM. He wants what he wants and that's his new GF AND his son! That woman is not going to PLAY stepmom damn it!
(GOD, how can you have a girlfriend while you are married?!!!!)and how/why do these W put up with it?
Several years ago my husband told me he was unhappy and wanted to move out of our home. I practically lost it, but somehow found myself in CODA meetings. I went weekly for almost a year, but really got little from it. I read Melodie Beattie's books, but once again got little from them.
Night before last my WH and I had the mother of all fights. The reasons behind it are long and I won't bore you with them here as you can read them in the just found out thread under "final d-day".
The important thing is I spent the day doing other things but as it progressed I noticed the familiar pangs of what I can best describe (in drug parlance) as "Jonesing".
Back in my youth I experimented with lots of drugs, but the worst for "Jonesing" was coke. Boy, after about 20 minutes you're ready to do whatever you have to for another hit. That's exactly the way I felt yesterday.
I decided to go NC with my WH for the day. He was supposed to go to a plant to meet the "guys" (new consulting job). I thought a Saturday field trip was suspicious since he's got a new online "friend" and that's really what started our latest blowup. Anyway, in the course of maintaining the NC I kept getting that feeling of wanting a "fix". I held firm until late in the evening when I went to hear my DS play in his band at a club in our city. My WH is very jealous of our son's budding musical career and refuses to go hear them play putting me in an awkward position if I go so I've not been going. Last night as the band was rockin' out I dialed his work phone and saved some of the music. When it was quiet enough for my voice to be heard on the recording I said "eat your heart out MF...that's your son" and hung up. He'll hear it Monday. I felt better, but soon the "Jonesing" came back.
Now I can say I truly understand what being Co-dependent means and how that is so me. I got up this morning and printed out the 12 steps and the 12 principles, but the printer is out of ink and there was a third thing yet to print. But I can do that tomorrow at work where there's tons of toner and no one will mind.
I'm so ashamed to admit that I'm addicted to my WH especially as I don't find him (at least not right now) to be a very admirable person. In fact from what I can tell talking to people who know him, I'm about the only person in his life that he could consider a friend. Well, okay there is an old OW that hangs around waiting for phone calls, but she's probably sicker than I am.
So here I am guys. Ready to roll up my sleeves and get to work. Anyone else out there interested in joining in the fun?
Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, I'm free at last!
There was a woman there who is has the same problem as my WH so it was very insightful. We spoke after the meeting and I practically begged her to come again as I think we can help each other. She was hurting and I was hurting it was interesting to see the other half of my problem in a form to which I could relate.
As far as my WH I got my "fix" last night and will be using him and it to keep myself stable until I can extricate from the relationship. I realize now that whether or not I still love him (or ever did) I'm addicted to him. NOT healthy, but in order to maintain my daily routine which is high stress I must keep the status quo at home for the time being...as I work through a withdrawal plan. I'm going to think of it as methadone.
Hope anyone out there who's reading this will pray for me as I'm scared, scared, scared.
houston, I have a problem.
I have taken any and all behavior from my very recent X (who I Jonesing for less each day, but have not had more than a day without SOME Form of contact, and that often includes him sleeping over. And from the relationship before that, and from my long and lonely marriage. And so on.
I've always called myself "loyal" because I am rarely the one who leaves, and when I do, it's because the writing on the wall was written with a jackhammer.
I try to fix him, I do research, I distill that research down and give him reports, explaining his problems and psychology. I need to talk about him to others, and talk about the relationships.
My compulsive need to hold onto and stay in bad relationships has cost me nearly all my friends, jobs, family members, health, nearly lost my home, and has damaged my relationship with my beloved son.
And it's all gotten worse since my brother (who was combo brother, best friend, and father figure) died, for no reason that we can figure out, five years ago at age 46. He and I talked almost every day, and were extremely close.
And then I wonder - why such a dependence on my brother. That's a form of male attention, in a way...
Anyway, I'm questioning all that I do now. And when i talk about my recent X, like saying, "He needs to see that he's ruining his life with this behavior," I force myself to change it to
"I need to see that I'm ruining my life with my behavior."
Everything I want to say to him, I turn around onto myself.
It's scary as heck. I feel unable to continue without him here, but when he was here, I was stuck in such fear of his lies and secrets that I couldn't do anything either.
When's your next meeting? How are you doing? Why do you feel ashamed?
Also codeps need to learn about healthy boundaries and consequences.
This is vital. You cannot force an addict to seek treatment and you cannot control him/her but you do have a right to set boundaries to keep yourself safe. Stop I think this will be key for you. You're right that the advice of "do nothing" for a year flies in the face of reason. My advice is that instead of doing nothing you work hard and healthy boundaries and consequences. Done properly and in a non-manipulative way it might get her attention. But remember, that would be a bonus and not the ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is your emotional and physical safety. Make sense?
I can identify with so much of what you have said. I hold my marriage vows as the most important promise I have ever made in my life. I understand that the fact that my WH has broken the marital contract means that I can be "free" (whatever that means to a codependent) but I continue to maintain that I am not responsible for his lack of integrity, but for my own and my conscience as yet will not let me break my part. Sometimes however I think I keep this like of reasoning as it keeps me tied to WH and enmeshed in this unhealthy marriage.
My friends are supportive, but really want me to leave him heck his family thinks I should leave as does our son, but I stubbornly hang on. I see that I'm reliving some of the things I saw in my parents marriage, but cannot figure out how to go about taking care of all the details required to leave. I have begun looking for a house to rent and think I've found something suitable, but just thinking about the little things, like utilities, car insurance, new cell phone contracts just seems overwhelming. I can only do what I can do today and finding the house is all I can manage.
My next CODA meeting with that particular group will be next Tuesday night, but there are groups all over the place and I guess I could make a meeting elsewhere any night, but after work I'm so darned tired I just want to sleep and then of course I feel guilty if I don't cook dinner for WH.
As to why I feel ashamed, it's embarrassing to admit that I'm addicted to a person I guess especially one who disrepects me so obviously.
To 7yrsbetrayed, your information is very insightful and I truly appreciate your insight into healthy boundaries.
I so relate to what you say about the little things being hard to get done.
I feel utterly at the end of my ability to keep going. I feel like I can't survive if I don't see him, hear from him.
But, I wrote "I FEEL LIKE I CAN'T SURVIVE." I used the word FEEL because I know that it is just a feeling. I know it is Jonesing, or withdrawal or any other term you'd use for a drug or alcohol.
I feel like this addiction to relationships and people who hurt me is going to kill me if I don't get help.
I am admitting to myself but nobody else how very messed up I am. I seem to have given up on life, on myself. I can't even check my purse to see if he stole any cards or money when he came by briefly last night.
I am not going to talk about him, though. I am going to try to divert all attention away from him. He cannot be in my life anymore.
I don't know where to go to get help. I suppose some 12 step thing. I texted a 12 step woman I've talked to in the past, told her I need help getting to a meeting, and she said that i need to get on my knees right now and say the Serenity Prayer to God. This is the only way I can get help.
But that's really hard. I do not believe in God. And she is telling me I must to get help. I get stuck there. I shut down. Then she told me to come to a picnic for the group tomorrow. I don't know how to get out of the house. I don't know how to break this paralysis. Haven't left the house in days.
It feels like I am waiting for him to come rescue me.
I can't seem to let anyone else in. I talked to my mom a bit today but got frustrated with her. I told her I miss him and I know it was right to cut him off but it is really painful. She said,"EVERYBODY in your life feels-"
And I said, "Mom, please don't speak for everyone, just for you."
She said, "Ok. I am so glad that he is out of your life."
And I immediately shut down. I KNOW he is bad for me. I KNOW I should've kicked him out long ago. But right now, why do I have such a hard time hearing that?
I tried to say that it is like he died. I need to mourn. I feel miserable. It hurts. He was my best friend, I thought, but it was all a lie. And she said, "Well, you'll make new friends."
I don't know why, but it made me feel like just hanging up. I don't understand what is wrong with me or where to turn or how to get help.
And I barely saw my son today, because I slept all day. He needs more than that.
And still. I just wait. For help.
So sorry you are having a rough time. I know that in meetings I have attended (Al-anon) that you can use HP - Higher Power in place of God and make that higher power anything you like such as nature, the Universe, etc. It's good that you reached out to your sponsor. I think getting out of the house and going to meetings or whatever else you can manage will be a huge help. I also find Melodie Beattie's materials very helpful. "The Language of Letting Go" is nice because you can read an entry for each day and also you can look up a theme in the index and read that day's message. I am no longer with xwh but still read recovery materials every now and then. Hang in there
I will be glad when Sept 15 gets here and WH moves out. I'm so fed up...
Imtrying...you posted last week and nothing else. Wondering if you are better today?
Also joined an email group for sex/love addiction for myself, and realized from reading all the emails that being able to end the relationship was terrifying for me because it felt like I was walking away from love and attention.
It was an act that forced me to FEEL all that fear and pain that is normally masked by my codependence, or love addiction or whatever.
Once I grasped that, I felt a great relief.
Now the problem is that X may want to move in (separate bedroom) till he has a job and money for his own place.
I am mixed. There is healing going on between us, and friendship seems more possible. On the other hand, maybe I need that distance to really break it off and I fear I will fall back in to being the helper/healer/provider/understander and not take care of myself.
So far, I am doing the work of making sure we are not spending too much time together, or etc. He proposed taking the bedroom next to mine, for example, but I said that I thought he should be on a separate floor. He agrees to the boundaries, but his natural tendencies, when he wants comfort or safety, is to have no boundaries.
Until he feels smothered, then he runs.
So I am looking at myself to see where I start getting anxiety or feelings of hopelessness or great loss - then I try to change things so those cricumstances won't happen. And I usually take a break from him, too.
But, see, now the world is partially revolving around him again..
Glad your meetings are feeling good. That's great.
I had just dozed off when my WH came into the bedroom and turned on the light so I could see what he was out "running errands" for. He had a huge tattoo on his upper arm. Not just any tattoo. This is the logo for his fantasy garage band. Now I have to tell you that this band has no consistent members. People answer ads he runs on the internet and come out a time or two, some actually several times, but no one sticks with it very long. My WH is 47 and decided at 43 his lifelong desire had been to be a rock drummer.
WTF is he going to do with this tatt once the fantasy is gone?
Sigh...Please God give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...
At least he wasnt' with an OW.
Mom is a Christian and so is WH. Both have never believed in A although now WH is in one. MIL was never a mom, just a friend to him. Now, he confides in her and sh says "it's ok that my son is having an A - I just want him to be happy." WH lies about me to make him the good guy getting out of a "bad" marriage though he hasn't filed in the 8 months since he told me he wanted out. I don't want to file due to my own beliefs. He tells her lies so that she loves him and tells him he's great and what he is doing is ok (btw, we did NOT have a bad marriage - just lack of communication at times) and she tells him it's ok without confronting him because she is afraid that he will not talk to him again or she will lose his love. Everyone in the family puts him on a pedastal so they will not confront him about his behavior because they are afraid of him cutting them out of their lives. It is so odd. WH is 30!!!
There hasnt been much traffic here lately so I thought, in light of my recent confirmation that I am text book codependant, I would get the ball rolling again and see if I can pull some others back in to chat.
My codependancy goes back much further than my current relationship. My father is a raging alcoholic, I am the oldest of 3 girls. We all went through a lot. I was the caregiver and "moderator" in my family. My mother is a wonderfully wise and strong woman and did her very best through those awful years to keep us girls straight, but I guess I felt I needed to help her, allieviate some of the burden and offer her relief from the pain my father was causing.
Today, my sisters and I are very close and each have wonderful families. My mother is my very best friend and I honestly could not live with out her. I dont think my codependancy is (i dont really know how to put this) related to them, at least not in the "negative" aspects of codependancy.
My codependancy is related to my male relationships solely. Particularly my WSO.
My T is super and I am so glad I found him. Last night was my 4th session. He really opened up my eyes to a lot of things.
My WSO is a conflict avoider. I am so desparately afraid that if I leave him be with out injecting my thoughts on how he can help himself that I will loose him. My T says "Well, AS, why should he have to seek help and worry about himself or his responsibilities when you do enough work for the both of you?" WOW.
I am exhausted. I am expending soooooo much energy focusing on what he needs to do that I am neglecting my own needs. I am in essense completely avoiding myself. If I work on him, I dont have time to work on myself. *lightbulb*
It's what us codependants do. I deem my worthyness and validation on how happy I can make someone else. I have even caught myself saying to WSO before, "when I can't help you, I can't be happy.", "I feed off of you, your current state of mind, how you are feeling. And if its negative, I feel negative if I can't pull you out of your funk".
I have spent countless hours of the last 8 years of my life trying to shove sunshine up the guys ass to no avail. Fail, fail, fail.....it started to be my subconcious mantra. Even the most amazingly positive and optomistic person sucumbs to failure after so long....
When I saw that I was a failure at trying to "save", "fix", whatever you want to call it, him, I shut down and regressed...
This is when he said he was at his lowest, this is when he had his affair.
I was no longer shoving sunshine up his ass. I was no longer stroking his ego. I was no longer validating him.
I stopped enabling him so he sought all of that elsewhere.
Wow, blindsided and feeling it was my fault for "abandoning" him, my codependant tendancies once again went into extreme mode.
I think Im done with all that now. I am too pregnant to add to my exhaustion by focusing on his bullshit. He can take care of himself. He is a smart guy and can do his own research and find his own IC and blah, blah, blah...
The words of my IC will forever stick in my head as my "reminder phrase" when I realize I start to do it again....
"why should he do all the work when you are doing it for him?" No Sir buddy, You gotta do it yourself. I didnt choose to be in this position, you put me here. Its time for you to take responsibility for your shit.
And If he doesnt? Well, I will be just fine. I have plenty of support from my family and I am a very strong and capable woman. I dont NEED him to get by.
The thought of loosing him after all of the investment of 8 years is still terrifying. I can't believe I can say that considering what he's done, but that goes to show that I still have a lot of "ME" work to do, and I am more than up to the challenge!
[This message edited by anotherstatistic at 8:20 AM, December 19th (Saturday)]