Well, WH and I went to our first CSAT meeting Monday. It was a 2 hour meeting with both of us and two CSATs. I think we both preferred my therapist (the female CSAT who works mainly with partners of addicts), but I thought they were both good and had a lot of helpful insight and information. Both therapists seem to agree that the situation sounded like a love addiction, and it seemed like they were pretty comfortable referring to it as such, even though he has not been formally diagnosed. I felt very validated throughout the session, although it was certainly painful to talk/think about. One thing they mentioned that made WH balk a bit was that for people in recovery, they ask the partner to commit to staying for one year (as long as the addict is active in recovery) and they ask the addict to commit to stay in the marriage for TWO years. They talked about the reasons for this (we wouldn’t be capable of making a healthy choice until then, he owed me an extra year of work to make up for the years of acting out). He has not agreed to commit to stay in the marriage for two years of recover, which leaves me feeling abandoned and unloved.
WH mentioned to them that he always thought he could just stop when he wanted, since his father was an alcoholic who stopped drinking cold turkey. They stressed to him that this was much harder than an alcoholic’s recovery. I think that surprised him. They seemed to think that he was ahead of the game since he knew he had a problem and wanted help and was pretty insightful about the problem. I asked them whether or not we should be having sex (with each other! LOL), because even though we are in separate rooms, we have been “visiting” each other sometimes. They said we should not. They mentioned other reasons we shouldn’t, but one that really resonated with me is that it would make me think, “Oh he loves me and everything will be fine.”
The bottom line is that we can definitely not afford to go as often as they would want us to go. They would like him to see his therapist weekly and I would see mine every other week. Our recovery would also include group meetings, etc…
So it was sort of a mixed bag. On the one hand, it was fairly positive. On the other hand, we can’t afford it and we are still in limbo and trying to decide whether or not we want to be married. I’m not sure where I go from here, so I will just continue to try to focus on myself and MY recovery. WH is out of town this weekend, supposedly on work. I am going to try not to snoop, try not to worry about it and just relax and enjoy the weekend with DD before she starts school on Monday.
11/08 - Found out he is still talking to the previous OW as well as at least three others.
I've left a couple of messages with COSA and sent them some emails, but I haven't gotten anything back from them. It's a little frustrating. I know that there *is* a local COSA meeting (as my husband told me that some of the spouse's of the people in his meeting go to one), but I can't get info on when/where. They don't post the meeting locations/times.
I have a lot of trouble with the literature I've been finding as there's such a heavy christian bent to it. When they start quoting chapter/verse from the Bible, I frequently just shut the book or close the website. I also have difficulty with the finding strength in God elements. I just don't believe in a higher power.
My husband told me that his SAA meetings tend to have a heavy religious bent to them (probably a large part of our geography - pretty firmly in the bible belt).
Sorry, I"m not trying to turn this into a religion vent. I had the same initial struggle when dealing with recovering from my husband's affair or 'marriage building' like things.
"In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate." - Asimov
"Be patient and tough; someday this pain will be useful to you." - Ovid
When they start quoting chapter/verse from the Bible, I frequently just shut the book or close the website.
I've been to four or five meetings so far, and the bible hasn't really been quoted. Like you said, it may differ a little bit in the bible belt. They do have a moment of silence and say the serenity prayer (which as someone else mentioned is pretty sound advice even if you replace "God" with "your name" IMO) and one of the meeting times says the Lord's Prayer at the very end, but I noticed that a couple of people leave before the prayer.
Honestly, I haven't really done a whole lot with the literature or the website, but the women who are at the meetings have been extremely helpful. Hearing others share similar stories is really comforting. It very much reminds me of posting in this thread, only with faces involved. It's the people, as much as it is the actual program, IMO. I hope they contact you and let you know about meeting times so you can at least try a couple of meetings on for size. I wonder if your husband could get the meeting information from someone in one of his meetings?
I have one of those "see how good I'm being" guys too. We've been seeing CSATs for 4 months now. Yes, his verbal abuse has toned down. Yes, he is being SLIGHTLY more helpful with the kids (without complaining). Yes, he is no longer going to porn sites, but is still sneaking around looking at "incidental porn" (innocent sites that just happen to have porn ads on them).
And yes, I DO believe that he's trying. But it's not enough. I've FINALLY come to realize that unless he finds out WHY he does these things, it will just be more heartache in the future - just in some other form.
In two weeks I'm sitting him down with our CSATs and giving him my final boundaries -- submit to a polygraph (so I can once and for all KNOW what I'm dealing with) and he does IC with his CSAT every week for at least four months before I will even ATTEMPT MC with him.
If your gut is telling you he's giving you fluff, then trust it. Been there. Done that too many times. No more.
WH is out of town this weekend, supposedly on work.
Well, unfortunately I was right to doubt that he was actually working this weekend. He was supposed to be home Sunday afternoon, and he showed up early this morning. He told me that he spent the night alone at a hotel. He said he has been talking with most recent OW, pretty consistently (except for one week) since D-Day (June 28). She is from out of town and was supposed to come spend the weekend here. Supposedly, something happened at her house last night and she didn't come. Then, he said she was going to come today but he called her and told her not to come and that he wanted to figure out things with me first. He asked me to go to dinner. He says he doesn't know what he wants, etc... I am so angry, so hurt and so tired. We're already in separate bedrooms and I'm not sleeping with him (since we went to CSAT's last week). I appreciate the fact that he told me this, if it's the truth. But I'm struggling with my feelings and reaction.
He told me he wants to comfort me, but doesn't want to confuse me. I told him not to comfort me, that if he wants to do something to comfort me, he will get serious and commit to recovery. Otherwise, to just leave me alone. He says when he's around me he wants to be all over me. I don't know if being in the same house is going to work for us, but we can't afford two separate places. I am really thinking he should move out, and I am considering filing for divorce.
I have one of those "see how good I'm being" guys too.
I have one of those as well. Since it's been over 3 years since D-Day, I figure at this rate, he'll be where he should be somewhere around 2018!
But it is certainly a lot better now that his recovery or lack thereof, is of very little importance in my life. Choosing to stay for the time being is simply that; a choice. I continue to be up and down as to whether I even love him or not, but I don't let that disturb me too much.
I discovered I can only take on one major personal project at a time. Right now, that is my recovery. I have absolutely no room for concerns about the marriage. At some point in my recovery, I will and I will deal with it then.
In the meantime, I feel safest by not knowing what he is doing. We are not being intimate so I do not worry about STDs, although I have absolutely no doubt that he is NOT having an affair. His struggle is with internet porn; it always has been. I told him I know he has discovered how to surf the net without leaving any 'marks' on the computer, and that I could care less. He can look as much as he wants. I also added that the day is coming when I feel far enough along in my recovery that I will care and that the fallout will be swift. I go!
I'm so sorry -- hugs to you. No advice -- just take care of yourself as best you can.
So this morning I am at work and he sends me a FREAKING TEXT that says "I am filing". I was livid. A text message? Seriously? Nine years and I get a freaking text message? So we have been arguing on and off all day and I just feel so used and so hurt. I told him he should move out, and he said that was fine but he wouldn't have to worry about my finances and paying for the house, etc... if he wasn't living there. He has always said that no matter what happens, he would never leave me screwed like that financially.
I am so angry. I am angry at the OW, b/c this is the one who was married to someone who cheated on her. I actually sent her some information from this site (the thing about how adultery hurts everyone involved, etc...) and she posted it on her freaking Myspace and then she had the freaking nerve to continue an affair with my husband?! After having been the BS, she would do this to someone else??
I am letting him go. Obviously, he doesn't love me enough and doesn't want to be married to me. But OMG...it hurts. I feel so abandoned and rejected.
Please do not beat yourself up. YOU have done nothing wrong other than giving your H the chance to prove himself a worthy husband and father.
As far as the money/financial stuff, seeing a lawyer can only give you more information so that you know what the *truth* is about what you will be entitled to rather than his empty threats.
I haven't posted much on this forum b/c my H hasn't been "diagnosed" with SA or a love addiction. But I still feel at home here after H had one long term affair, a period of four years of sobriety and then an EA four months ago. I'm still trying to nagivate through all of this myself...
Just wanted to tell you to hang in there.
Holyshit! I am so sorry. I know you're going through horrible horrible pain right now. It's terrible.
I know someone will come along to give you better advice soon. I just want you to know you're heard and you're not alone.
Your WH is a coward.
I'm so, so sorry. I know how hurt, betrayed, angry, disgusted, etc. you feel. We BS tend to operate from the assumption that others think like we do -- ie. we would never intentionally hurt another like we've been hurt -- and I think one of the saddest casualties of betrayal is that loss of "innocence" when we learn that the world is not at all like we think. It's full of really mixed up people and, as if often said on this site, "hurt people hurt people".
All you can do is pick yourself off the ground and face your future -- a future without such sickness. Without such betrayal. Surrounded by healthy people and a healthy YOU.
I think, too, that you should get a lawyer and find out what you're entitled to. I think it's wise to just let him move out. The space -- physically and emotionally -- will be good for you. Then it's time to get your ducks in a row so that you can proceed with a clear head.
Hang in there and keep posting. Stop beating yourself up for being a good person who assumes that others think like you do. If everyone did, there would be no need for this site. And wouldn't that be nice.
I know I deserve better than this. It all feels so scary for me, but after dealing with this kind of hurt for all these years, it's got to get better, right?
I was so angry at him this afternoon. Aside from the obvious that had gone on today, I had rearranged my schedule to pick DD up from her bus stop after school. WH knew this and after I had been waiting there for over 30 minutes, he shows up right before her bus gets there. He knew I was picking her up. I called and asked him why he was there and he asked why we both couldn't pick her up? Well, first of all b/c we are in separate cars. She is a total daddy's girl, so of course, she gets in the car with him. I was so excited to hear all about her day, and he just swoops in and picks her up and then starts heading for his mom's house. They call and tell me they are going over there and I was livid. So he goes and meets me at our house and then we all go to dinner with his family (but he and I don't speak the whole time). Maybe I am overreacting, but I was so freaking angry. It just felt very passive aggressive for him to swoop in like that and pick her up.
Eternal-As much as this site has helped me, it certainly WOULD be nice if there wasn't such a need for it.
He's being an ass! But did you expect anything better at this point?
I wouldn't be surprised if he's feeling quite scared himself, and by pulling your daughter close, he can avoid "feeling" all the pain of what's to come. It'll be brutal, I know, but keep taking the high road. Your daughter needs to be able to love both of you without fear of hurting the other. And a lawyer can also help ensure that this crap doesn't happen again.
Keep posting. We're all here to help you through this. As Lombardi says, it's not whether you fall, but whether you get back up. We'll help you get back up no matter how many times you need us.