He leaves this week for a 2 week travel to another country. He will actually be traveling for those 2 weeks. I am joining him in 6 weeks. During his trip he will be in the company of many people, including lots of single women, I'm sure. I am not concerned whatsoever. He is in charge of his behaviour, not me. If he falls, there's an answer, right? So be it. However, he was talking this week of how he is so acutely aware of how he cannot even be friends with a woman. He says he mourned that for a long time, as he is very social, but he no longer grieves the loss. It is what it is.
I actually think the break from each other will be very good for both of us.
[This message edited by 1Forward1Back at 7:07 PM, April 10th (Saturday)]
I decided to start posting in here as well....
Most of you porbably know my story so I'll spare you- just read my signature.
I'm just wondering if a SA can truly get better? I mean... I've read of people staying together- I know it's possible- but I'm so concerned that my husband is so twisted and deep into it...
Is it worth the risk to stay with a husband with an addiction like this? We've only been married 5 years and he's been heavily into this for at least 4 of those years- probably longer.
Why stay? What's in it for me? It seems like one long hell of a road for someone who has no addiction and who didn't do anything wrong. I WANT A NORMAL LIFE! I WANT TO BE ME AGAIN!
Is it worth the risk? He's so deep in it! I can't handle any more heartache from this- if I stay, won't it be a lifetime of it? Can WH really truly get better and satisfied with me as his one and only sexual partner for the rest of his life? Will he be happy as a one woman kind of guy?
I'm haveing doubts. Serious doubts. I want to beleive he can get better- why am I doubting?
[This message edited by Lacy J at 8:51 PM, April 10th (Saturday)]
D-Day 2/18/10: 5+ years of porn, online dating, and cybersex and $20,000 secret cc debt to do so.
D-Day 3/24/10: 2 ONS's and EA/make out with old g/f
Filed for D 8/23/10
I'm still pretty scared of getting my hopes up... and I still want everything to be okay.
I'm looking for a list of recommended books for SA here and not seeing it in the 10 bajillion posts?!!
Will someone please link me in?
I appreciate your time and direction.
Thank you again. :)
So we have our "Come to Jesus & admit you're an asshole" talk ..what? Three days ago? (I busted him breaking our porn site agreement. He lied, and I called him out. He told me everything I wanted to hear ...and then this happened 3 days later)
I went back to work after being off for the winter last night. I was apprehensive about going..something in my gut telling me to ' proceed with caution'. I dismissed it as being a triggery pain in the butt.
So I went to work. Came home and he was nodding off. (I got home around 1am.) He gets up, goes to school, I log on to the keylogger site and what do I find but......
He was surfing CRAIGSLIST personals & then went to the porn site he had previously lied about.
Sent him a text saying, "Craigslist? Really? I don't even know what to say except for if you want to stay in this marriage you'd best come clean."
He started calling, I spoke to him for a minute and he tried to lie to me again and I told him, "You have to know I already know the answers to these questions. Not only that, but I have screen shots." - To which he replied in annoyance, "Oh. Well good for you." - And I hung up on him. He called back no less than 9 times and I refused to answer. Screw. You.
He came home...we got into it bigtime. I told him..."Didn't we just do this shit 3 days ago? Now you come as close to cheating as you can without actually screwing someone else and you have the audacity to be angry with me?!" He started apologizing and I told him I didn't want to hear it. He said, "I would never, ever connect with someone on there. Ever. I was just looking." I told him I have a list of shit he'd "never, ever do" as long as my arm, and remarkably, that list was right next to the "shit you actually did" list. Not interested in listening to your mouth flap. Your actions say something entirely different than your mouth.
I knew I couldn't be anything other than nasty, vindictive, mean, and degrading and I knew I couldn't be productive, so I told him I had to go - and I left for about an hour.
When he got home, I told him, "I'm leaving in 20 minutes and I would like it very much if you came with me." - And he did. No questions asked.
I took him to a bar/grill where it was quiet, but public. I know me. If we'd have had the discussion at home, I'd have exploded and been nasty. In public, I'd maintain, be able to talk without blowing and be productive. So we talked.
I told him there are only two answers to what is going on.
1. You're a douche bag. If you're a douche bag and you're incapable of bringing to this marriage and to the table what needs to be for this to be successful, do me a favor and walk. I'll make sure you have what you need to do it, but Be. Gone.
2. This is a compulsion. If that's the case, I can wrap around that in the "in sickness and in health" category, but knowing you have a compulsion that is damaging to this marriage and choosing not to do anything about it is a choice that brings us back to option 1.
So..the options are as follows:
2. Go to a sexual addiction counselor and get evaluated and start a program.
No third option available. You've found the hill I'm willing to die on. One or two. I won't force you and I won't manipulate you, but I'm choosing to not be in a marriage with someone I can not trust. I will not be married to someone who I feel I have to watch their online activity, phone activity, and put a GPS tracker on. I will not live like that. I did not put us in this position and I'll be damned if I'm going to mother him into being my HUSBAND.
He said....get this....
"If you need to humiliate me for me to stay, FINE." and he got mad!!!!
I told him to go fuck himself. How DARE you speak to me as though you have something up on me in the humiliation department?!!! I can't show my face in your previous place of employment because the last any of them heard of you it was you with your hands full of OW's tits and a mouth full of her tongue!!! Do NOT speak to me of humiliation. This is NOT about humiliating you. This is about protecting myself and getting shit done. You are either in or you're out. No in between. You're being hip-checked off the fence. Option 1 or Option 2. Choose ..and fuck you for putting me in this position.
And the saga continues. He has 10 days. Pray for him. Me? I'll be just fine.
I came home from work and he was acting really odd. I asked him what was going on and he said, "If you make me do this, you'll break me." - Meaning go see a CSAT.
I asked him if he believed me continuing to feel the way I feel, the continued lies and whatnot were less likely to break *me*?! He says he wants time to do some reading on SA and see if he can identify with it and if he believes it's a problem for him. He wants the opportunity to see if he can help himself by reading.
I told him no. I told him I think he should do the reading, but it's not a substitute for seeing the CSAT. Option 1 or Option 2.
He believes I'm trying to punish him. I told him again that I would not force, manipulate, or coerce him into going. I'm making a choice about what I'm willing to do and tolerate.
Day 2. 8 to go.
I did pick up the book "Deceived" and started it last night. Just through the intro of it it really spoke to me. I'm excited to read through it. Thank you for the recommendation.
As for your H, if he is not at his rock bottom or ready to face the issues of shame that drive his SA (presuming that he is SA), nothing you do or say will convince him. My H knew he had a problem for YEARS (oh, even before we met 18 years ago), and even verbalized that he was SA 9 years ago in a suicide note. However, until he hit rock bottom 7 months ago, he was not willing to really work on it. I think for my H his issues were too painful, and like most addicts he thought he could "control" his addiction without doing the hard work. He saw therapists over the years in a half hearted attempt to appease me, but this time around it is different. My H is doing this for himself. He wants to get better with or without me. He is doing the hard work on his own. I am stepping back and letting him own his shit.
You should be setting boundaries, and prepare to follow through if he is not in a place in his life where he is ready to commit to self-improvement. I applaud you for making the tough choices. This stuff isn't easy.
Yes, your H has probably been a SA for a long time, much longer than you have known him. For my H, his coping with porn and masturbation started when he was still in elementary school as he was exposed to porn and sexual abuse as a young child. When my H and I met, he had just gone through a dark time in his life where he had been suicidal and went cold turkey (white knuckling). He really does love me (I believe this) and wanted to be with me. Yet, at the same time, I remember him having emotional difficulties when we were engaged. I didn't understand why he got angry when I came home early once or why a month before the wedding he provoked a huge fight with me. In hindsight I see it was the struggle he was feeling knowing he had a secret life and that dichotomy.
I have to tell you, when I first met my H's CSAT in November, we were separated, but still best friends. I sat on the couch and told him that I would always be his friends but didn't know if we could ever be lovers again. The things he has done acting out still give me the occasional mind movies. However, I have seen HUGE changes in my H in the last 7 months. I really like him and the person he is becoming. I do think he is changing and I have hope that this could be permanent. I see a future with him. I hope I am not being naive.
I think that if your H is sincere, and if he puts the effort into it, he can change. There are success stories, and I am hoping that my H and I will be one of those down the road. For now, work on yourself, and wait and see. I know that is easier said than done, but you are still in crisis mode, being so close to d-day. Eventually, the crisis will subside, and you will be in a better place to make decisions. Hugs.
I am 100% ready, willing, and able to follow through with what I told him. He can stay- but if that's what he wants he has to make an appointment and get evaluated. If he doesn't, he has to leave. I already set aside the money for him to do so (he doesn't work. He's a full time student.) First and last month's rent, 2 months of vehicle payments, and car insurance for the next 6 months is paid up as well. He knows the money is set aside. He believes I'm threatening him and punishing him. I keep telling him that I refuse to continue to live like this and I'm making choices about what I'm willing to tolerate in my life and what I'm not. If he has an addiction, I can and will wrap around that in the "in sickness & in health" if he's doing something about it. If he's not, I have no time or tolerance. Again, I will not mother him into being a husband and I gave birth to the only three butts I'm willing to powder.
*sigh* I hope he chooses to make the appointment.
I keep having to stop myself. I want to make it easier on him. I want to make the appointment. I want to let him off the hook. I want to tell him to go ahead and do just the reading and see if he can do it on his own- and I know that if I do any or all of those things, the only thing I truly do is further cripple him and myself.
I love him & I do believe he loves me.
Yeah. It's really hard.
My WH didn't hit bottom until I left him to his own devices. When the going got tough, he got into treatment. Some people just have to learn the hard way.
This is the 3rd day since discovery. He refuses treatment. Says he is "all done" on his own.
He is sick, broken and says he's thinking of taking his life. I am gutted. We've been a couple for 6 years.
Now I know why he couldn't really commit to me and give me 100%. There was always a missing piece to the puzzle.
My eyes and body hurt from crying.
I keep having to stop myself. I want to make it easier on him. I want to make the appointment.
You want to do everything. Unfortunately, he knows this (how could he not?). Any 'work' on his part will be meaningless and ineffectual if you're behind it. He has to do it for himself, not because someone else is directing him. IMHO you gave him several days too many and are too eager to reconcile; meanwhile he isn't even on the same page. Good luck, and meanwhile focus on yourself.
People: Read up on the 180!
Oh, and I'm boycotting Nike forever ;)
He refuses treatment. Says he is "all done" on his own.
Nouveau, this is not going to do him any good. While porn addicts can "white knuckle" and try to go without the porn for awhile, without help, they fall back into it. I know because my H tried many times in the last 30 years to "white knuckle" it. It didn't work. Your SO is a recovering alcoholic. It is the same principle. Entering recovery requires work, and if he is not willing to do the work, he will NOT get better.
I know that in your thread in the General section you spoke of the fact that he is sick (like someone who has diabetes or cancer) and you didn't feel like you could abandon him. The big difference is that he has a choice to make to either seek help or to stay sick. If he doesn't make the decision to seek help, it is going to affect you in a different way than if he had diabetes and blew it off. This is an addiction that destroys the self-esteem of the partner and makes the partner sick, too.
Nouveau, I think you really need to think about your boundaries right now, to PROTECT yourself. I know you want to be supportive of him, but right now is the time to take care of YOU. Even though my H and I are in R, we did separate for 3 months after the last d-day. I needed distance to clear my mind, and he needed to work on himself. After I saw that he was working on himself, I was willing to R. If he is not willing to change, and you are not ready to separate from him, be prepared for more d-days and hurts down the road. That is the reality of living with an addict who isn't in recovery.
It would be good for you to look into some of the resources that are mentioned on the 1st page of the thread. Recovery Nation is also a website that is dedicated to porn addiction, and has a section that is for partners of porn addicts. I am sorry that you find yourself here.
It is only day 3 of discovery. Things are really raw right now and I am hoping he is going to seek prof help. In the meantime, I have an appt for myself starting next week.
He is a risk now too. I have considered a break and having him live somewhere else for a while, but I fear he is in danger. He told me he has had thoughts of taking his life.
Right now I can't make any decisions I am so confused. He hasn't touched his computer since last weekend.
I don't want to end up being his gatekeeper and living always in turmoil. I can't live like that. I won't.
I just can't decide anything right now. Just taking one breath after another takes concentrated effort.
TwistedUp's story has hit me like a ton of bricks. How did we end up here. This is horrific. In some sad way, it would have been easier (hah... easier???) for me if he'd just gone out and screwed some stupid chick, then I would have flat out thrown him and all his shit flying out the door.
I don't know much about the addictive personality. I have much to learn.
I agree 100% (bolded), which is why I said I *want* to, but also said I *wouldn't*. It's not an easy line to walk, but as I've gotten older I've learned to recognize these behaviors in myself. This is progress and a good thing.
While he's up to his eyeballs in finals at school, I believe 10 days is reasonable, and I'm okay with that. As for being too eager to reconcile? I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Quite frankly, I'm more apathetic at this point than anything. My ducks are in a row. Finances, housing, job, etc. I have no worries so far as any of that is concerned. The line in the sand has been drawn. He'll either tow the line or he won't, and I've accepted that I can't make that decision for him, but my decisions are made.
Would R be ideal? Of course. Lots of things are ideal, but that doesn't make them practical, and I'm nothing if not practical.
I spoke with all three CSAT's this week. I did that for my own informational purposes. I wanted/needed to know what the initial approach and evaluation processes are, as well as cost so that I can make sure it's all budgeted in properly. The different initial approaches were surprizing, as was the varying cost for the same test (SDI), but..whatever. I told them each exactly why I was calling, what info I wanted and why, and told them each that I hoped they heard from H in the next week.
The only thing I've done to re-enforce Option 1 and Option 2 to him since our discussion was something I'd do anyway. I hung our lease renewal on the fridge. It's due to be signed the same day his 10 days are up. Obviously, I won't be signing if he doesn't make the appointment - at least not here.
Nouveau- It seems we're sitting in very similar boats. Prayers and strength for you over the next while. The one thing I would stress to you from experience is this: You are not responsible for decisions he makes regarding his life and threats regarding it. I was held hostage by similar threats for over 10 years, and the end result was that he did committ suicide. The fact that I stayed and turned myself inside out made no difference. I believed if I didn't stay he'd hurt himself, and it turns out he was hellbent to do that anyway. Misery truly does love company. Please know, again, you're not responsible for fixing him and you can't save him from himself. Do not allow your own life and sanity to go down with him. I'm thinking of you.
[This message edited by TwistedUp at 4:46 PM, April 17th (Saturday)]
Ok will be back to post responses to others tomorrow, I hope.
I've been reading all the posts of today...
I am so annoyed reading them! I'm annoyed that we are all here and having to deal with this! Why is this even fair?
I wish I had your strength! How can you say that if he chooses to 'get better' you'll stay and work together? It seems so impossible for me to even think that clearly now! I'm 2 months out and it seems like every single day that passes, the choice becomes clearer and clearer... and the idea of sticking in this marriage seems daunting and hidieous and will inevitably be a road of heartache and hell!
And this is coming from someone who was smitten by her WH!! I LOVED EVERYTHING ABOUT WH! We had no problems whatsoever in our marriage (besides just regular tiffs married couples have), but nothing BIG! We were best friends! I loved him!
Now, everyday that passes, I feel that the love I had for him is diminishing because he's not who I thought he was at all. It went from an interest in porn, to actually paying for it, dating women online, searching Craigslist for trannys, and then actually actin out! It's like "DUDE WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME YEARS AGO!!" I had no fricking idea! My WH is like your WH... he's been a student for our entire married life- that is when he found all his 'time' to engage in it. I never even suspected a thing. When he said he was 'studying' I beleived him. I never EVER EVER EVER thought WH would be involved in this- especially to this extreme.
Anyway, I admire you for your strength- I wish I could say that about my commitment to WH. I guess I feel like 'what's in it for me if I stay?' He's lied our entire relationship!
Know that I'm thinking of you... Keep posting... As much as I hate that we're all here, I'm also so grateful there are other women who can relate to this awful hell!