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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS"s III
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, August 19th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bdotoole -

My WBF says that he feels he probably really wanted me to catch him cheating (3 week affair with an aquaintance of both of us) No contact for 14 months...she was married, we were dating for 3 plus yrs at the time. Has any wayward ever felt this was their case.

At first, I didn't necessarily see this in myself. And it wasn't a conscious choice on my part (I wasn't plotting to get caught).

However, my BW thinks strongly that I did want her to catch me, and I think she's right. On D-Day, I had logged into the cheating site I was accessing using my BW's laptop. I had left the site up, and my BW returned home to see it on her screen. I still feel my gut being ripped out when I reflect on the pain she felt starting that day.

The truth is there were plans in place for me to meet up with xMOW the following Monday (on a business trip). I had left the screen up on Saturday morning. In hindsight, I think I definitely wanted my BW to catch me to keep me from crossing the line and turning the EA into a PA (which would have ended our M immediately).


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, August 19th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stuck808,

For the WS's, did your spouses do anything that helped to get you back or did you just want to be left alone?

Four words. She held me accountable.

I was totally foggy and out of touch. By her not accepting that state, and setting ground rules for us to even attempt R, she started the process of defogging for me and opened the door for my own healing to begin.

I've also found out that from my fighting for my M, it has made me a female magnet. What would happen if my W found out that women have been asking me out? I don't plan to go out with any of them

With your WS, who is clearly not remorseful and I'm guessing is still having an A (with the same OM or possibly someone different), she would likely encourage you to have an RA. That would, in her delusional state, help her figure the score had been evened. Or even more critically, she would see it as the reason to end the M and blame it on you ("I was willing to try to R, but he went and saw someone else").

She's not a big reader and doesn't want to go for IC or MC.

IMHO, there is 0% chance for R under your current circumstances. If you want a chance at it, it can't be about what she wants. You have to set the ground rules, because she is not emotionally mature enough right now to set them herself. At a minimum, IC is a requirement NOT an option. So is NC with the OP, and wide open transparency (you get full access to all email, IM, cell and other communication accounts). For us, reading and talking about "After the Affair" with my BW was also a requirement for our healing process, as was completing and discussing the Emotional Needs Questionnaire from marriagebuilders.com.

I don't want it to seem like I'm always going to be here for her and I definitely don't want to be her "pacifier" until someone else comes along.

Every day you leave things this way and don't hold her accountable for her actions, you already are showing her that you are her pacifier. In your shoes, knowing what I know now, I would spell out clearly the requirements. She has to be NC. If possible for you (meaning you can afford to live without her income) she quits her job and looks elsewhere. She reads what you ask her to, and you have open conversations about everything. She gets into IC immediately. She gives you full access to all communication tools.

If she refuses on any of these items, you implement the 180 and YOU talk with a lawyer. You cannot make her want to stay in the M. You cannot "win her back" - in fact it's an insult to you to think you should have to. She either does the work necessary to defog and be the wife she should be, or you need to prepare for D.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
BreathingAgain
♀ New Member
Member # 25031
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, August 19th (Wednesday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want to be able to share all I've learned here with my H.

The problem is any conversation that involves the A at all causes him to shut down.

We are about 1 1/2 years into R, in MC, he in IC.

It's not that he won't talk...the talks just aren't productive. We both end up feeling bad for some time after.

We are in such a good place that I don't initiate a conversation because I don't want us to end up miserable for hours on end.

I am thinking of giving him this letter.

What do you think?

Do you have any other ideas?
--------------------
My head is full of all the things I have learned in the last yearÖ

I have learned things that have made it easier for me to deal with what happened.

Iíve learned things that enable me to believe that the setbacks we had werenít because you didnít love me or because you werenít happy with your decision to stay with me.

Iíve learned that the common perception of ďonce a cheater, always a cheaterĒ is not necessarily true. Many people who have been unfaithful their whole lives have learned to be monogamous and happy.

Iíve learned that it is counterproductive to try to use logic to point out that the person you were involved with didnít have your best interests at heart. That only raises your defenses because to admit that she wasnít a good person only points out what a terrible mistake you made.

Iíve even learned to have compassion for the pain you experienced and the withdrawals you went though when you ended the affair.

Iíve learned that I canít expect the full truth from you if I react to the truth with anger and tears. If I want you to share with me, I have to be able to hear the truth and understand that you were in a different place then.

I want so much to talk to you about these things. I feel that it would help you to know that I have found a measure of peace since we last talked. I want to tell you that I now realize some of what you were going through at the time, and know that I wasnít the only one in pain.

I have also learned that one of the reasons you get so upset when I try to talk to you is that any discussion concerning what happened only serves to remind you of the pain you caused us both.

The last time we ďtalkedĒ I was so hopeful when the conversation began. I had all this new information and wanted so badly to share it with you. When I rehearsed it in my head we had a wonderful talk and both felt better after. Of course, in reality, both of us ended up feeling miserable.

So Iím asking for your help. How can I share this information with you? And more importantly, how can I share what I have learned about how to prevent this in the future if we canít talk about it?

I believe that you are serious about wanting to be faithfully married to me. I know that you donít want to hurt me or yourself again. But I also know how hard it is to put away old belief systems and to learn to be at peace with yourself.

I am not completely ďwellĒ, but I am much, much better. I feel that we are in a very good place.

If you will just try to talk to me without shutting down or getting angry I promise I will handle it differently than I have in the past.

I will listen to you with the compassion I feel for you as my husband and my friend.

I will listen to you with the knowledge that we are going to be OK.

I will accept it if you need to stop and continue the conversation at a later date.

I wonít overreact if what you say now conflicts with what you told me when you were foggy.

And most importantly, I wonít leave.

I believe that we are in a good place now. I believe that you want to learn how to ensure that we stay there. Thereís nothing you could tell me about what happened IN THE PAST that will change how I feel about you NOW.


Posts: 26 | Registered: Aug 2009
icbtih8
♀ Member
Member # 23797
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any WS have multiple OPs?

Everything I read says that WS with multiple OPs are more likely to do it again in the future. If you have had multiple OPs, could you tell me what you are doing to make sure you never go back to that? WH said he felt guilty after the first one (I didn't find out about it at that time). About a year and a half later, he had more OPs. Why wasn't that guilt enough? What is different now?

TIA

[This message edited by icbtih8 at 9:40 AM, August 20th (Thursday)]


D-day #1 - April 29, 2009

Beauty is a calling...a call "to transfigure what has harden or was wounded within you"
-- John O'Donohue


Posts: 5424 | Registered: Apr 2009
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wondering if any of the WS's can help me with this one...

WH and I have been S (in the same house but fairly separate) for 7 weeks. We have communicated pretty much daily, almost always initiated by WH sometimes about important things sometimes very trivial thing. IC suggested that he too has feelings of attachment and communicating in any way is a way to stay attached.

WH had to go on a business trip, he left Sunday. I received a few text messages about watering plants and getting the mail etc. and a problem that he was having with receiving texts on his cell phone but could get him by phone or email if I needed to. Monday morning I got an IM from at work stating that his cell phone problem seemed to be straightened out and was able to receive texts again. No contact from Monday morning until this morning. It was very strange for me this week, very different. Even though we've been S for almost 2 months and for all intents and purposes living very separate lives, it was just very real this week...like this is the way it will be all the time eventually. There will be no occasion for us to communicate and no need for us to participate in one anothers lives whatsoever (no kids). It was a bit of a reality check for me. In so much as I've been doing pretty good since we S'd this week was different....it was real and it pretty much sucked. I'm ok but it's definitely very strange.

Anyways as a result I've been wondering what the chances are that my foggy WH has experienced any of the same feelings actually being separated and not communicating whatsoever or no chance of running into one another in the driveway etc.
He is travelling with someone else who is a very good friend of his so I'm thinking it may be just a "vacation" for him and he's probably livin' it up and not thinking about me at all.

Sorry for rambling...I guess I just got a dose of what real S will be like and it hit home and have been wondering if this sort of thing might hit home for a WH who I suspect is still very much in the fog?

Just want to add how much I appreciate and rely on reading the WS posts on this thread....you guys are so insightful and wise and have become a very valuable resource to me in trying to deal with my WH and the implosion of M.

((((WS))))
RS


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
chasingpavements
♀ Member
Member # 24325
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Had this big discussion with my WH this morning that was pretty emotional... anyway, one thing he said was "why should he share his introspection with me?"

Am I crazy? I think that he would WANT to share his introspection with me. That if he's been doing the work to figure out why he chose an A, he'd want to share that with me. Is there something I'm missing?


"I personally believe "the one" - that special partner, the soul mate, that person that becomes intoxicated by love for us -
Well shoot, I think that the one that needs to feel that way is us, for ourselves."
wisdom from Healing Tree

Posts: 712 | Registered: Jun 2009
JustDone
♀ Member
Member # 9742
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

icbtih8, I did. I had 2 OP's, two affairs, years apart. I'm not sure about what you've read, but (for me) the difference is he knows now and we've been working on our marriage together ever since. He never found out after the first OP, the first affair. Some wayward's don't seem to really stop until they get found out and begin to honestly work on themselves. If the first A never gets uncovered, then it can be easier to move onto another one, sad to say. If your spouse actually begins to own their stuff and work on themselves and the marriage, then I don't think they are necessarily any more likely to cheat again than a spouse who has only had one affair. It all depends on the wayward spouse.

Hugs,

-JD


Forgiveness is giving up the possibility of a better past.

Nobody forgets what happens, the secret is learning to live with it.


Posts: 2764 | Registered: Feb 2006
EmptyCup
♀ Member
Member # 22909
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chasingpavements - That sounds very defensive to me.

At first I was hesitant to share with my husband because I never have. Part of my external validation issue is that I prefer to keep my faults hidden I've been learning to open up more with my husband and I can see how important it is for him to see that I'm working so hard to understand and change myself. I didn't get that right away, though. I don't know if that's what's going on in your husband's head or not, just sharing what kept me from opening up for a while.

[This message edited by EmptyCup at 12:39 PM, August 20th (Thursday)]


FWW, reconciled with my best friend <3

Nothing much but love to give you, even less have I to hide - Tim O'Brien


Posts: 1140 | Registered: Feb 2009
JustDone
♀ Member
Member # 9742
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

REALLY SAD, I'm not separated, but perhaps your husband needs some time alone, and not with a good friend, to be able to feel the truth of what this separation means.

Hugs!

-JD


Forgiveness is giving up the possibility of a better past.

Nobody forgets what happens, the secret is learning to live with it.


Posts: 2764 | Registered: Feb 2006
REALLY SAD
♀ Member
Member # 23030
Default  Posted: 3:22 PM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the reply JD and I agree. Unfortunately while I've spent the last 2 months reading, going to IC, and logged several hundred hours on SI...WH has been drinking, golfing and hanging out with his friends. Yes we've gone from the discovery of his LTA, a couple of Ddays to false R, to a MLC at 36 years old and S on July 1st.

Not to say alone time or a more accurate depiction of what S will actually be like would force him to be insightful and "dig deep" but I certainly don't think whoopin' it up with his buddies and avoiding it all is gonna do it either!

Boy did I get more than I bargained for with him!


Truth whether good, bad or ugly can be dealt with. Hope on the other hand can be devastating!

Me - BS (37)
Him - WS (36)
Together - October 1991
Married - September 2005
DDay#1 - 12/29/08
DDay #2 - 02/21/09
His heart just isn't in it -


Posts: 162 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Canada
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chasingpavements ~
the first time i shared my introspection with BH, his response was "that sounds like a cop out to me". i wasn't trying to use it as an excuse, just simply sharing with him what i had discovered during IC. i wasn't looking for sympathy or empathy, nor was i looking for someone to judge MY discovery about MYSELF... that shit hurt....the other night, i shared some new introspections and while he didn't make any comments right then and there, the only thing that resonated with him was the part where i mentioned "his flippant, nonchalant attitude" towards everything. mind you, that comment was made at the beginning of my introspection speech. i even said, a few times too, how in reality, his attitude wasn't really the issue, that the issues are related to ME, not HIM. all he took away was it that it was about him. needless to say, i was frustrated but at the same time, i know my H and i KNEW that's what he was going to do, i just hoped he wouldn't. what that tells me is that he hears what he wants to hear, when he wants to hear it and that's it - at least when it comes to words that come out of my mouth (he was like this pre-A) - even if that means he doesn't hear the most valuable parts...as i sit here typing this, i'm starting to wonder if the reason he's so dismissive of anything i say that's related to an introspection is because he views them as an excuse or justification for my actions, thus i'm trying to excuse or justify my behavior, which i'm not. there are no excuses or justifications for my actions. man, we need MC....no $$$, tho....

not sure how you react when he shares with you but for me, H's reactions dictate what i share with him. every once and a while i take a chance and say something, like i did the other night....the result was disappointing....nobody likes being dismissed....


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5529 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
lost and lonely
♀ Member
Member # 17205
Default  Posted: 9:20 PM, August 20th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A question for WS's...male or female.

If your BS had cheated on you...before or after your A...would you want to know or would you want him/her not to tell?

If you knew, what would you do with the information?

Would you be able to forgive?


Me: 36
WxH: 37
Together 16yrs, married 12yrs (we were 16 and 17 when we met...high school sweethearts)
2 sons
Separated 6/09, Divorced 2/11

Posts: 706 | Registered: Nov 2007
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, August 21st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BreathingAgain -

What do you think?

It's a very nice letter. Anytime we share what's truly in our heart, it can only be a good thing.

Do you have any other ideas?

How about inviting him to join SI and interact over in the Wayward Forum. I know for some it's a tough decision, because they want to keep SI as their place for healing. But after a lot of research I can tell you that there really are no other resources for WS's out there that would be of any help. Some indicate they are there for support of marriages, only to have members bash a WS so hard they retreat back to the corner. Others, many geared toward an OP point of view, serve as places for WS's to continue to verbally tear down their BS and justify having more A's.

Truthfully, SI is the only site I have found (and I did a lot of looking during the "Ike outage") that can truly help a WS heal both themselves and their M.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, August 21st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

REALLY SAD -

Anyways as a result I've been wondering what the chances are that my foggy WH has experienced any of the same feelings actually being separated and not communicating whatsoever or no chance of running into one another in the driveway etc.

Four days of total NC with him? I suspect he has experienced none of the feelings you have, especially in light of his fog. It's far more likely he's focused on enjoying a responsibility free life, and thinking more about how free and open life would be with him if he were no longer married.

In our case, frequent but paced communication was the key to healing. We needed more contact, not less.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:01 AM, August 21st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chasingpavements -

Am I crazy? I think that he would WANT to share his introspection with me. That if he's been doing the work to figure out why he chose an A, he'd want to share that with me. Is there something I'm missing?

MissesJai is going along the path I was thinking. Many WS's (myself included) are huge conflict avoiders. That's why many BS's never see it coming - because the WS is afraid of the confrontation between themselves and their BS in the first place.

If this is the case with your WH, then the complete phrase would sound something like this:

"Why should I share my introspection with you? You're only going to tear it apart piece by piece and tell me it's total crap anyway. This is an argument I am guaranteed to lose, so why even open that door?"


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, August 21st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lost and lonely -

If your BS had cheated on you...before or after your A...would you want to know or would you want him/her not to tell?

Hypothetical questions like this are tough. In my case, I would want to know now for certain. Before the IC I did, I probably would not have wanted to know due to my huge fear of conflict.

If you knew, what would you do with the information?

Before the A, no idea. Now, I would sit down with her and talk about what led to her choice to have the A. I'd share openly what I knew (no hiding and snooping on my part), and ask her honestly what she needed to be happy.

Would you be able to forgive?

Before the A, I have no idea. After watching the wide range of reactions here, there is no way to predict how it will turn out. How many folks here have said if their spouse had an A the M would be over, only to enter R when the "real deal" hit.

Having seen the amount of Grace my BW has shown to me through her forgiveness, I absolutely could forgive her in a heartbeat.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
chasingpavements
♀ Member
Member # 24325
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, August 21st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MissesJai is going along the path I was thinking. Many WS's (myself included) are huge conflict avoiders. That's why many BS's never see it coming - because the WS is afraid of the confrontation between themselves and their BS in the first place.

If this is the case with your WH, then the complete phrase would sound something like this:

"Why should I share my introspection with you? You're only going to tear it apart piece by piece and tell me it's total crap anyway. This is an argument I am guaranteed to lose, so why even open that door?"



not sure how you react when he shares with you but for me, H's reactions dictate what i share with him. every once and a while i take a chance and say something, like i did the other night....the result was disappointing....nobody likes being dismissed....

MissesJai & Listeningclosely, thank you so much for your candid responses. These two quotes really struck a cord with me. In the past, we've had problems because when WH has talked to me about his feelings, I've either tried to "fix" them by being (in my mind) encouraging or providing a possible solution or I've tried to show him I could "relate" by giving him an example of me going through something of similar intensity... he's never specifically said to me he felt dismissed... but I can remember one day early on in his fog he said angrily to me "why is everything always about YOU... every time I tell you something, you've always felt it worse, hurt worse..." I was very hurt at the time by his statement and also by the fact that I DID feel he wasn't paying attention to the pain he'd put me through... that was before I knew about the fog in the first place and how useless it was to expect him to empathize with mine pain while he was going through it.

Anyway, do either of you have suggestions on how I can create a safer environment for him NOW to discuss his feelings, etc., with me? I'm not going to PUSH the issue because I've learned that when I push him, he just withdraws more, but it is very important to me that we get to the point he is able to open up to me...

Thanks again for the insight!


"I personally believe "the one" - that special partner, the soul mate, that person that becomes intoxicated by love for us -
Well shoot, I think that the one that needs to feel that way is us, for ourselves."
wisdom from Healing Tree

Posts: 712 | Registered: Jun 2009
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, August 21st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cp...
do either of you have suggestions on how I can create a safer environment for him NOW to discuss his feelings, etc., with me?

my suggestion is this..
acknowledge that you could've handled things differently and how; then assure him that going forward, you will no longer do that and that he's SAFE. he can share his feelings and introspections with you in a SAFE environment - you will not judge him, you will not try to fix it, you will not try to compare his to yours. make him feel confident that in that moment, as much as he may not deserve it, it IS about him. he may not open up to you right then and there and you already know the results of pushing him, but i suspect once he starts to see and FEEL that he truly is SAFE, he will come around and begin opening up to you more.....

[This message edited by MissesJai at 12:14 PM, August 21st (Friday)]


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5529 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
MissesJai
♀ Member
Member # 24849
Default  Posted: 12:21 PM, August 21st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If your BS had cheated on you...before or after your A...would you want to know or would you want him/her not to tell?

i would want to know simply to determine the nature of the A - was it an EA, PA or a mixture of both. my BH is EXTREMELY private and guarded. he's very cautious about who he lets "in" so i'd need to know if the OW got "in" or not....


If you knew, what would you do with the information?

that's a really good question. if he in fact had an A but didn't confess, i'd confront. i'd found some suspicious phone numbers on our cell phone bill last year (before my A) and questioned him on it. he answered. i trust him and left it alone. i'd do the same in this case.

Would you be able to forgive?

absolutely. to err is human..to forgive is divine...i forgave my ex and he abused me for years. it's one thing to forgive; forgetting is an entirely other situation. forgiving does not equate to forgetting.


FWW - 40
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent...

Posts: 5529 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: So Cal.....
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, August 21st (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

chasingpavements -

Am I crazy? I think that he would WANT to share his introspection with me.

My husband had said that he wanted to know what I thought, when I felt like breaking NC, everything. So, I told him. After a few times - over email, in person - of being torn apart (line by line of why what I said was wrong or worthy of 2x4s or what I needed to fix), I stopped. Conflict avoidance or whatnot was not the issue; it was not safe for me to tell him.

Anyway, do either of you have suggestions on how I can create a safer environment for him NOW to discuss his feelings, etc., with me?

Something very basic would work with me and we learned this in MC. Repeat what he says until you totally understand what he means. Don't assume you know what he means. Ask until you know, and then repeat it back to him.

And then you can answer.

(Kind of do what happens here on this board - you post something, someone responds, you ask questions based on that or you get clarification, then respond again.)


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

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